What is the purpose of religion?

Given modern distractions, the need to understand Islam better has never been more urgent. Through this forum we can share ideas and hopefully promote the true spirit of Islam which calls for peace, justice, tolerance, inclusiveness and diversity.
Human
Posts: 382
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Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#121

Unread post by Human » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:49 pm

anajmi wrote: all the prophets you mentioned, only taught Islam and no other religion. They were all prophets of the same God and brought the same message
I tend to disagree to this. I do not think before Prophet Mohammed, Islam was preached at all. There are the likes of Jews and Christians etc. In one of the other posts either you or someone else did make a mention that there's a lot of 'Jew bashing' in quran, aren't they the follower of Moses; a prophet sent by Allah?

anajmi
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Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#122

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:52 pm

Human,

On one side I have the quran and on one side I have you. Who do you think I trust more? And please tell me you have read the quran in a language you understand at least once, so that this is not a complete waste of my time.

anajmi
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Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#123

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:06 pm

this statement of yours would mean that all the prophets before muhammad were non-muslims and disbelievers, although sent by Allah as mentioned in the quran???
I said rituals. Not rituals of prophet Muhammad (saw). Besides, if you know hadith, you might know that all prophet prayed behind Prophet Muhammad (saw) during the night of Meraj. But that would require a leap of faith. Also, rituals as practiced by Hazrat Hajra, the running between safa and marwa are followed by only the followers of Prophet Muhammad. The practice of Eid-ul-Adha is a ritual from the time of Prophet Abraham. Please don't argue simply for that sake of it.

Human
Posts: 382
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Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#124

Unread post by Human » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:17 pm

anajmi wrote:Human,

On one side I have the quran and on one side I have you. Who do you think I trust more? And please tell me you have read the quran in a language you understand at least once, so that this is not a complete waste of my time.
Yes, you can definitely trust the quran more. I'm not trying to waste your time either. I'm just trying to put forward a practical point of view thinking in a neutral/unbiased way. If you feel its a waste of time, please do not bother to reply. I just presented my opinion from a neutral point of view, it in no way means that I expect everyone to agree with it. Everyone can have their own opinions.

Someone commented something like "The purpose of religion is to follow it". According to my personal opinion, this is quite true as well in today's world!

anajmi
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Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#125

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:33 pm

Human,

I do not have any problems with anyone's personal opinions. I do have problems when these personal opinions are attributed to the quran and Prophet Muhammad (saw). Don't you think it is necessary to know what the quran says about jews and christians before you can actually comment on what it says?

Human
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:24 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#126

Unread post by Human » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:40 pm

anajmi wrote:Human,

I do not have any problems with anyone's personal opinions. I do have problems when these personal opinions are attributed to the quran and Prophet Muhammad (saw). Don't you think it is necessary to know what the quran says about jews and christians before you can actually comment on what it says?
No I did not comment on what the quran says about Jews and Christians. I just quoted what someone says. Moreover, I gave my personal opinion based on a neutral point of view. From an Islamic point of view, and going by the quran, I agree what you say on this topic.

anajmi
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Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#127

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:53 pm

Human,

I am posting some ayahs of the quran which talk about the followers of Prophet Moses (as). And this is in the 2nd chapter of the quran. This is pretty much the beginning of the quran.

002.050
YUSUFALI: And remember We divided the sea for you and saved you and drowned Pharaoh's people within your very sight.
002.051
YUSUFALI: And remember We appointed forty nights for Moses, and in his absence ye took the calf (for worship), and ye did grievous wrong.
002.052
YUSUFALI: Even then We did forgive you; there was a chance for you to be grateful.
002.053
YUSUFALI: And remember We gave Moses the Scripture and the Criterion (Between right and wrong): There was a chance for you to be guided aright.
002.054
YUSUFALI: And remember Moses said to his people: "O my people! Ye have indeed wronged yourselves by your worship of the calf: So turn (in repentance) to your Maker, and slay yourselves (the wrong-doers); that will be better for you in the sight of your Maker." Then He turned towards you (in forgiveness): For He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
002.055
YUSUFALI: And remember ye said: "O Moses! We shall never believe in thee until we see Allah manifestly," but ye were dazed with thunder and lighting even as ye looked on.
002.058
YUSUFALI: And remember We said: "Enter this town, and eat of the plenty therein as ye wish; but enter the gate with humility, in posture and in words, and We shall forgive you your faults and increase (the portion of) those who do good."
002.059
YUSUFALI: But the transgressors changed the word from that which had been given them; so We sent on the transgressors a plague from heaven, for that they infringed (Our command) repeatedly.
002.061
YUSUFALI: And remember ye said: "O Moses! we cannot endure one kind of food (always); so beseech thy Lord for us to produce for us of what the earth groweth, -its pot-herbs, and cucumbers, Its garlic, lentils, and onions." He said: "Will ye exchange the better for the worse? Go ye down to any town, and ye shall find what ye want!" They were covered with humiliation and misery; they drew on themselves the wrath of Allah. This because they went on rejecting the Signs of Allah and slaying His Messengers without just cause. This because they rebelled and went on transgressing.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#128

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:58 am

anajmi wrote:Al Zulfikar,

Thank you for the explanation. Thank God I haven't been belittling anyone anymore than you have been.
you are welcome. but by comparing yrself with me, you are only belittling yrself, and we cant have that now, can we?

ghulam muhammed
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Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#129

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:40 pm

Al Zulfiqar wrote:
anajmi wrote:

Every muslim has to be cautious of his ego, but especially those people who are studying 'ilm', who have been given a higher intellect by Allah, who have been blessed by Allah with knowledge and who wish to make da`wah, these people have to be very careful about a disease that comes to people of this nature many times unfortunately, and this is the disease of KIBR, of arrogance and pride. And sometimes the way this is reflected is where the person refuses and does not want anyone to correct him, or at least he will not accept correction from certain people whom he does not like or he despises. He may accept correction and told that he is wrong only by someone who is from his group, someone who is a close friend of his, but everybody else, he will look down upon and belittle them with contempt. This is Kibr. This is pride and arrogance, as described in the hadeeth of the Prophet.

.
What is EGO?

But then the question is " How do you control your ego? Or even better, How do you decrease your ego? Is there a way?

What is Ego ? It is deeply ingrained, compulsive need to remain separate and superior at all times, in all places, under all circumstances, it is experienced as an emotional quagmire of fear and attachment.

It is part of you that is fully occupied in its personal fears and desires and lives only for itself. Ego is an anti –evolutionary force of powerful inertia in human nature, attached to the past, terrified of change.

On the positive note it is also a self organizing principle, that coordinates the different aspects of the self. ( Ref: Andrew Cohen home page)

Ego is very universal and Mark Twain rightly said : ‘There is'nt a parallel of Latitude but thinks it would have been the Equator if had its right !!’ The real problem is that if I am egoistic, I will never accept the fact, and that makes it difficult.

However, once a person becomes aware, once self realization dawns, the problem of over coming it becomes easier. Understanding ego is the first step.

For inducing Happiness, medical science has discovered drugs like Prozac, unfortunately for ego no such patented drugs are in the market. However, sages through the ages have dwelt deeply on the subject, and have applied their awakened mind and spiritual powers, and have handed down to us sure shot remedies to over come Ego.

As stated earlier Ego is deeply ingrained in every one, so how to control your ego ?

I quote a sage who said : ‘ If you find that you cannot drive off this feeling of ‘I’,

Then let it remain as the ‘servant I’ there is no fear from the ego, which is centered in the thought – ‘ I am the servant of God; I am his devotee’

A piece of rope, when burnt, retains its form, but cannot serve to bind, so is the ego which is burnt by the fire of supreme Knowledge.

The wise man always says, “ It is Thou, O Lord, it is Thou” but the ignorant and deluded say “ It is I, it is I”


‘I am a bird imprisoned in the fowler’s love

It is not that I have lost the power of flight’ Ghalib

The fowler’s love is your ego. Free yourself from this imprisonment and soar high


E G O stands for Edging God Out - Anonymous

When a man is wrapped up in himself, he makes a pretty small package. John Ruskin

Attachment to things, keep alive a thousand useless ‘I’s in a man. These ‘I’s must die in order that a big ‘I’ may be born. But how can this be made to die ? They do not want to die. It is at this point that the possibility of awakening comes to the rescue. To awaken means to realize one’s nothingness. Gurdjieff, G.I.

The ring always believes that the finger lives for it. Malcom de Chazal

When shall I be free ?

When that ‘I’ vanishes from you, ‘I’ and ‘mine’ – this is ignorance; ‘Thou’ and ‘Thine’- that is true knowledge. Ramakrishna Paramhansa.

There are many such awakened thoughts that will help one control their Ego, but I will end here by just quoting one, which is a beauty.

Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one’s own sunshine.

Ralph Emerson.

Thai
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#130

Unread post by Thai » Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:08 am

Jew bashing in Quran

To those of us not familiar with Judaism, it appears that Surah 2 might be harsh on the Jews. But to a Jewish person who is familiar with his own scriptures---this is something that they would have encountered in their own teachings. The rituals of Judaism are meant as a "rememberance" that is, to remind the Jewish people of their own stubborness and rebellion and God's mercy and compassion. Their 'tradition" is filled with admonitions to "remember" this. (explained to me by a Jewish person). ...and the Quran does mention that what it is saying would be familiar to the Jews.

anajmi
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Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#131

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:09 pm

I have noticed something in the quran but am still waiting to confirm it. Whenever the quran refers to the "jews" before the time of Prophet Muhammad (saw) for eg. during the time of Moses, it refers to them as Children of Israel or people of the book. However, while refering to them during the time of prophet Muhammad (saw), they are referred to as "Yahud". As I said, I am still waiting to confirm this.

This is one interesting ayah

002.140
YUSUFALI: Or do ye say that Abraham, Isma'il Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Do ye know better than Allah? Ah! who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah? but Allah is not unmindful of what ye do!

Thai
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#132

Unread post by Thai » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:39 am

Jews
It is fascinating how the Quran uses words. From my (scant) understanding, the Jewish people (or the "Hebrews") were tribes. they were organized into 12 tribes and their leaders were a preistly class called the Levites (?). Later, these tribes became a Kingdom (under King Saul, 1020 BCE), the Kingdom of Isreal. This Kingdom split into 2 after King Solomon, The kingdom of Isreal, and the Kingdom of Judea (with the capital, Jerusalem as part of the kingdom of Judea)
Later, Israel was conqured by the Assyrians and Judea was conqured by the Babylonians.----possibly, the difference in terms may have something to do with their "national"/tribal identity?

ghulam muhammed
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Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#133

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:52 pm

Human wrote: I do not think before Prophet Mohammed, Islam was preached at all. There are the likes of Jews and Christians etc.
The word "Islam" means believing in Allah (God) to the extent of surrendering your will to Him. In this sense, the previous messengers of God such as Abraham, Moses, and Jesus Christ and their righteous followers are considered Muslims. It is one religion, revealed to people for thousands of years to guide them in this life and reward them in the hereafter. Muhammed (s.a.w.), is the last one of these prophets and messengers of God.

Thus, the Old Testament (the Torah) and the New Testament (the Engel) are Books of Islam, too. All messengers of God are considered Muslims, and we don't differentiate among them.

However, the Holy Qur'an, the word of God in Arabic, does not include chapters or sections of the two Books. Rather, it includes the same teachings. It completes them and gives a judgment about points of disagreement between Jews and Christians. An example of that is regarding Jesus Christ. While Jews did not believe in him, Christians believe in him as the Messiah and also the son of God.

The Holy Qur'an has supported Christians in that he was the Messiah but did not support them in their belief that he was the son of God. God, Allah, was not born of anybody, has never given birth to anyone, and there is nothing like Him.

Muslims not only respect the Old Testament and the New Testament but they also believe in them. And a person cannot be a Muslim if he or she does not believe that they were Books of God. However, Muslims are instructed to believe that the Holy Qur'an is the Book of God that has superseded and transcended His previous Books.

Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#134

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:13 am

Muslims not only respect the Old Testament and the New Testament


Agreed
but they also believe in them.
Not completely. We are taught that changes were made in message therefore need for last messenger, Qur'an and promise of its preservation.

ghulam muhammed
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: What is the purpose of religion?

#135

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:45 pm

Muslim First wrote:Not completely. We are taught that changes were made in message therefore need for last messenger, Qur'an and promise of its preservation.
Bro Muslim First,

Read my full sentence wherein I have also said the same thing i.e. "Muslims are instructed to believe that the Holy Qur'an is the Book of God that has superceded and transcended His previous Books".