Books of dawat

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Books of dawat

#1

Unread post by incredible » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:20 am

Bismillah hir rahmanir rahim...


I am interested to know , was datwat books and Quraan(with translation) were available to every on in the era of previous dai's or was it locked up in jamia for mullah's to refer?

regards

aziz
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:25 am

Re: Books of dawat

#2

Unread post by aziz » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:59 am

there you go again being foolish.there has never been a translation of quran majid by bohras and never will be ,we have the panjatan ,imams and the duats to interpret the ayats of the quran for us ,as for the other books they are of dawoodi bohras and so of no concern of yours let the dawoodi bohras worry about where they are

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: Books of dawat

#3

Unread post by incredible » Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:29 am

aziz wrote:there you go again being foolish.there has never been a translation of quran majid by bohras and never will be ,we have the panjatan ,imams and the duats to interpret the ayats of the quran for us ,as for the other books they are of dawoodi bohras and so of no concern of yours let the dawoodi bohras worry about where they are
I know your kind.you are not even worth that i respond to you...this question is for intellectual brains on forum.


if translation of Quraan was never been done then there wont be number of book on quraan tafsir by Imam Ali...but any ways u wont understand.better u remain engaged is kissing local amil foot for getting some more money from karze hasanah and muwaasaat.

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: Books of dawat

#4

Unread post by incredible » Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:55 am

porus wrote:
Muslim First wrote: To my knowledge, there is No Qur'an translation by any of Imams of various Shia Branches.
That is correct. All the Shia Imams lived among Arabic people and, even when were explaining the Quran, they used Arabic of their times. We know their Arabic as 'Classical Arabic'. For them, it was just Arabic.

For Bohras, that is a triple whammy. They cannot understand the Quran and they cannot understand their Imam's explanations. They cannot even understand the Arabic of their Yemeni Dais who also taught and wrote in Classical Arabic.


so according to this post it was duty of Indian dais to translate Quraan and other books in local lingo so that people of hind can understand it....i am sure previous dai(specially moulana qutbuddin shahid(qa)) must have done some efforts to educate momeenin,but presently i dont see any books available for general people reference.

aziz
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:25 am

Re: Books of dawat

#5

Unread post by aziz » Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:27 am

why dont you get it through your thick head that you cannot translate the word of allah,the quran since the real meaning will always change whether you do it in english or swedish in your case .some words of arabic will not exist in other languages and yet you still insist on reading and following the translations and claiming it to be the word of allah ,thats incrediblly stupid

mumin
Posts: 398
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Books of dawat

#6

Unread post by mumin » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:02 am

quran and arabic quran is atleast translated.
I am more concerned about dawat ne zaban. They speak in gujrati and try to write it in urdu. why don't they write it in gujrati since they speak gujrati.

bensaheba
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:01 pm

Re: Books of dawat

#7

Unread post by bensaheba » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:37 pm

Dear Mr. Incredible and Mr. Aziz: Salaams

It is not totally true that there is no translation of Qur'an by any Dai. I have seen a copy of Qur'an with translation(wordly translation,no tawil) in Lisan-e-dawat by Syedna Abdul Qauder Najmuddin (AQ) and it exists and is possessed by many people, unfortunately I do not. But I have seen it, held it in my hand and read from it so I know it exists.

Dear Mr. Mumin: Salaams

Dawat ni Zabaan is not same as Gujrati as you assume. Dawat ni zabaan (or Lisan e Dawat) is a mixture of Gujrati with heavy dose of Arabic, some farsi and Urdu, and is written in Arabic script. the reason for emphasizing this language is to bring the community a step closer to learning Arabic (like baby steps). The meaning of Lisan e Dawat is " the language that the Dai Speaks" . At one time when Doat were Yemeni, the lisan e Dawat was Arabic. Current Dai is fluent in Arabic, he writes qaseeda, marsiyas, and risalas and does vaez (in Yemen) in Arabic, but a Dai is also required to preach and speak the language of his predominant followers, and thats how this language developed.

mumin
Posts: 398
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Books of dawat

#8

Unread post by mumin » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:11 pm

salaams Behen saheba; so if one is fluent in arabic, english and urdu and not in lisan e dawat he should not be forced to learn gujrati. Since he has already passed the baby steps and is fluent in arabic which is according to you the ultimate goal of the baby steps.

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: Books of dawat

#9

Unread post by incredible » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:25 am

aziz wrote:why dont you get it through your thick head that you cannot translate the word of allah,the quran since the real meaning will always change whether you do it in english or swedish in your case .some words of arabic will not exist in other languages and yet you still insist on reading and following the translations and claiming it to be the word of allah ,thats incrediblly stupid

so after reading post from bensaheba i think u got the point of mine through your thick head lol

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Books of dawat

#10

Unread post by porus » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:02 am

bensaheba wrote: It is not totally true that there is no translation of Qur'an by any Dai. I have seen a copy of Qur'an with translation(wordly translation,no tawil) in Lisan-e-dawat by Syedna Abdul Qauder Najmuddin (AQ) and it exists and is possessed by many people, unfortunately I do not. But I have seen it, held it in my hand and read from it so I know it exists.
This is indeed great news that I am hearing for the first time. If such a Quran translation (in Lisan-e-dawat) exists, it has clearly been printed and published. Can it be obtained through any bookseller?

A lot of silly comments about the Quran by abdes can be laid to rest if this translation by a Dai is made available to common Bohras.

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: Books of dawat

#11

Unread post by incredible » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:04 am

aziz wrote:there you go again being foolish.there has never been a translation of quran majid by bohras and never will be ,we have the panjatan ,imams and the duats to interpret the ayats of the quran for us ,as for the other books they are of dawoodi bohras and so of no concern of yours let the dawoodi bohras worry about where they are

this is why it is been said "look before you leap" in your case "think before you open your mouth"

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: Books of dawat

#12

Unread post by incredible » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:06 am

bensaheba wrote:Dear Mr. Incredible and Mr. Aziz: Salaams

It is not totally true that there is no translation of Qur'an by any Dai. I have seen a copy of Qur'an with translation(wordly translation,no tawil) in Lisan-e-dawat by Syedna Abdul Qauder Najmuddin (AQ) and it exists and is possessed by many people, unfortunately I do not. But I have seen it, held it in my hand and read from it so I know it exists.

if Quraan was translated i am sure many other imp books of dawat was also in reach of common people

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Books of dawat

#13

Unread post by profastian » Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:33 am

porus wrote:
A lot of silly comments about the Quran by abdes can be laid to rest if this translation by a Dai is made available to common Bohras.
And what about your comments? What are they? nonsense...

aziz
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:25 am

Re: Books of dawat

#14

Unread post by aziz » Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:21 am

i stand by what i said that the quran has never been translated by any imam or dai ever,it has been interpreted by the imams and duats but never been translated and i challenge anybody to produce such a copy

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: Books of dawat

#15

Unread post by incredible » Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:23 am

aziz wrote:i stand by what i said that the quran has never been translated by any imam or dai ever,it has been interpreted by the imams and duats but never been translated and i challenge anybody to produce such a copy

now u are acting like those who were mentioned in quraan surah bakara...summun bukmun umyum fahum laa yarjeun.

aziz
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:25 am

Re: Books of dawat

#16

Unread post by aziz » Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:27 am

tomorrow somebody will say dai of progs engineer has translated the quran and quote i have seen it and held it in my hands but i do not have it now and same senseless replies about look before you leap and other bs will start again

aziz
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:25 am

Re: Books of dawat

#17

Unread post by aziz » Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:29 am

if you such a copy prove me wrong till then its you who is deaf dumb and blind as you mention in quran

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: Books of dawat

#18

Unread post by incredible » Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:48 am

:mrgreen: let other's decide who is deaf dumb and blind.i asked a genuine question in my first post of thread and by the god willing bensaheba gave me a perfect reply so i dont need to search for any thing further.

aziz
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:25 am

Re: Books of dawat

#19

Unread post by aziz » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:09 pm

you got a perfect reply telling you nothing ,there is no proof whatsoever that such a translated quran exists but you appear like clutching straws to prove that you got a perfect reply, there is no such quran translated by any imam or duat

aqs
Posts: 848
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:42 am

Re: Books of dawat

#20

Unread post by aqs » Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:20 pm

aziz wrote:you got a perfect reply telling you nothing ,there is no proof whatsoever that such a translated quran exists but you appear like clutching straws to prove that you got a perfect reply, there is no such quran translated by any imam or duat
Seconded

No such Quran exists with translation. its possible that a Quran with few comments by dai on ayats is their, but a complete translation as available of yusuf ali or pitkal is out of question.

mumin
Posts: 398
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Books of dawat

#21

Unread post by mumin » Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:25 pm

may be I am wrong, but was not yousuf ali a bohri alim who taught at surat jamia?

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Books of dawat

#22

Unread post by porus » Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:35 pm

aqs wrote: No such Quran exists with translation. its possible that a Quran with few comments by dai on ayats is their, but a complete translation as available of yusuf ali or pitkal is out of question.
Bensaheba has said in this thread that she has 'seen and handled' the Quran translation in lisan-e-dawat by Sayedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin. She ought to confirm this statement or withdraw it if it was mistaken.

I have certainly not previously heard of any such translation by a Dai in lisan-e-dawat.

aqs
Posts: 848
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:42 am

Re: Books of dawat

#23

Unread post by aqs » Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:36 am

mumin wrote:may be I am wrong, but was not yousuf ali a bohri alim who taught at surat jamia?
by birth Yusuf Ali was a Dawoodi Bohra but he never thought at Jamea.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Books of dawat

#24

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:27 pm

Yusuf Ali's father was at Jamia

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Books of dawat

#25

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:40 pm

Sorry, above is not true

bensaheba
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:01 pm

Re: Books of dawat

#26

Unread post by bensaheba » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:35 pm

Dear Mr. Porus: Salaams

Thank you for challenging me , that made me run to my elders to verify my statement. I am very sorry, I am wrong. The Qura'n that I held was translated by a miyasaheb with the raza of Syedna Abdul Quader Najmuddin(AQ). As it was mentioned on the first page in the begining. I am sorry again for giving the wrong info earlier.

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: Books of dawat

#27

Unread post by incredible » Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:25 am

thanx for info,in short Quraan can be translated and it has been translated in history.

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Books of dawat

#28

Unread post by porus » Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:13 am

bensaheba wrote:Dear Mr. Porus: Salaams

Thank you for challenging me , that made me run to my elders to verify my statement. I am very sorry, I am wrong. The Qura'n that I held was translated by a miyasaheb with the raza of Syedna Abdul Quader Najmuddin(AQ). As it was mentioned on the first page in the begining. I am sorry again for giving the wrong info earlier.
Thank you bensaheba,

If the translation of this miyasheb in lisan-e-dawat is available in print it would be a useful addition to my collection. It would also benefit Bohras who can read lisan-e-dawat.

Although, if it has no tafseer or tawil, it may not be much different from several Urdu translations which are now widely available free on the Internet.

bensaheba
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:01 pm

Re: Books of dawat

#29

Unread post by bensaheba » Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:27 pm

Dear Mr. Porus: Salaams

I think it is out of print now. I saw it a long time ago, this translation copy in Lisan e dawat was limited edition to begin with. Like you said it may not be any different than any other Urdu translation as it did not contain any tawil or tafseer. How big a collection do you have???

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Books of dawat

#30

Unread post by porus » Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:05 pm

bensaheba wrote:Dear Mr. Porus: Salaams

I think it is out of print now. I saw it a long time ago, this translation copy in Lisan e dawat was limited edition to begin with. Like you said it may not be any different than any other Urdu translation as it did not contain any tawil or tafseer. How big a collection do you have???
Thank you. I started collecting Quran translations long before they became freely available on the Internet. It must be over 30 years now. I have most of the English translations. However, it is now much easier to refer to them on the Internet for research. I also have Urdu, Hindi and Gujarati translations. The Gujarati translation is by Sayyid Abdulraheem Ghulam Muhammad Sadiq and, as far as I know, it is not available on the Internet. And of course, I have the Alifi Quran which has Bismillah of the surats in the handwritings of various Dais.

For tilawat, I use tajweed Quran published by Dar-ul-Ma'arifa, Damascus, Syria. This Quran has vocabulary and short tafseer in the margin, all in Arabic. That is, the meanings of Quranic words are given in Arabic for Arabic speakers to understand the Quran. It is like Arabic-to-Arabic dictionary available in the margins of the mushaf.

I also have access to the 6-Volume Brill Encyclopedia of the Quran and I use Lanes Lexicon of Arabic. The latter is now easily accessible on the Internet.