can reformist appoint there own dai

[makberi]

Originally posted by abde sayedna:
dear m akberi it cant be possible that there is no true propet or imam or dai of the zaman as per out islamis teaching so for me it our moula n for u who is it if it is not moula

please note before repling that since adam we r having imama n prophet till muhammad and after muhamaad there is no prophet n and if allah is there then there has to some one on earth who will spread his dawat and allah can never choose a wrong one

abde syedna,
as per the belief system of ismailis thre is a imam for every zaman.....and we dawoodi bohras also believe in the imam, though the imam is in hiding......so there is someone in our zaman as well......
regarding dai.....thre have been corrupt dais before as well....imam mahdi had to kill one of his dais for treachery.....one of the main supporters of the nizari imams was also a dai...i.e. he went againt imam mustaali to support nizar....so if u r a dawoodi bohra u wud have to believe he was corrupt.....
as i have mentioned to another conservative b4....Allah has given man the gift of Intellect.....use ur intellect and judgement to make decisions......God has sent messengers like the Prophet and corrupt pppl like Abu Jahl as well ....u have to decide whom to follow

[East Africawalla]

I think the progs are very jeolous of Kotharis having a Dai, I think its time they call it a day and appoint a Dai, postal vote

[abde sayedna]

abde syedna,
as per the belief system of ismailis thre is a imam for every zaman.....and we dawoodi bohras also believe in the imam, though the imam is in hiding......so there is someone in our zaman as well......
regarding dai.....thre have been corrupt dais before as well....imam mahdi had to kill one of his dais for treachery.....one of the main supporters of the nizari imams was also a dai...i.e. he went againt imam mustaali to support nizar....so if u r a dawoodi bohra u wud have to believe he was corrupt.....
as i have mentioned to another conservative b4....Allah has given man the gift of Intellect.....use ur intellect and judgement to make decisions......God has sent messengers like the Prophet and corrupt pppl like Abu Jahl as well ....u have to decide whom to follow

m akberi ur r rigth but i would like to highlight a imp point that during the time of imam they were the were the highest position in islam but today it is different in the seculision of imam the dai is the highest position in the islam so u cant compare dai s of those time with the present
i hope u get my point

[abde sayedna]

so now with reference to this point can u kindly reply my previous ans that who the one to whom the naas has reached according to u

[makberi]

the point is not who has got the nass.....u have to realise that the dai is only a caretaker in the absence of the Imam ......he is not masoom.....i have already given examples of dai who have wronged the imam......remember Islam is not abt havein faith in the dai....its abt havein faith in Allah...have faith in Him......and use the intellect He has given u

[makberi]

btw i have have not contended against syedna burhanudin receiving nass from syedna taher saifuddin...so i find no reason to believe otherwise

[abde sayedna]

dear akberi i already told u that there is adifference between the dai of both the zaman so now the dai of present is as masum as the imam in his zaman n this is the point i want to explain

but now according to u who is that masum in our zaman , n there has to be some one in accordance to our belief of ismailis

that is why for khojas it is aga khan n other bohra sect also have there own
so for reformist who is it if it is not sayedna

n do u have any reference that n any fatimi imam being tyrant as u gave eg of dai in zaman of imam

[makberi]

the imam is present in our zaman as well...n he is the only one masoom......

and i neva said that imams were tyrants......as a matter of fact the fatimid imams were known for their open mindedness and tolerance....

[abde sayedna]

see dear akberi i would give u a eg
as if there is a factory and it is run by a workshop manager n due due to some work he has to go out of india for a month and in his place he gives the charge to *** work shop manager
so though work bhop manager is head in his absense asst is incharge and he is responsible for all the work though he will remain in contact with his senior and take advice and he has to execute all the work himseif as told by his senior

exactly is the case is of ours that though imam is there but today his dawat is run by his dai
so here the importance of dai over here increase thasn earlier as imam was present at that time
so dear just think abt the imp of dai who is running allah dawat with advice of imam in parda and is executing his order so according to me he can never be a wrong one

now what do u think abt it

[abde sayedna]

if a imam can never be a tyrant so when he is in parda his dai to cannot be a tyrant
this is what i mean to say

[makberi]

the assistant can neva be as good as the manager....n if the manager leaves things in the hands of the assistant he doesnt give him complete responsibilty...the assistant cant change things as per his will....

n there is no proof that the dai is in direct contact with the present day Imam...syedna taher saifuddin has denied it himself.......

[Al Zulfiqar]

Originally posted by abde sayedna:
if a imam can never be a tyrant so when he is in parda his dai to cannot be a tyrant
this is what i mean to say

syedna's himaar (abde syedna),

why are u not answering my questions about syedna's mother? and what about yr bawasaab hunting and killing animals in the name of the imam? or refusing to touch ordinary bohras without a rumaal, unless there is lots of money in yr hand or its non-bohras he is shaking hands with?

and what about the rest of the principles of islam, like tauheed and valayat, which the bohras are not following and instead mocking with their sajdas to dai and ignoring mention of maulana ali's lifestyle?

kem dum dabavine bhagi gayo abde??

[abde sayedna]

ithink u have only aswered ur self by presenting some story on other post so why asking me now

[abde sayedna]

Member # 5642

posted April 04, 2008 09:34 AM
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the assistant can neva be as good as the manager....n if the manager leaves things in the hands of the assistant he doesnt give him complete responsibilty...the assistant cant change things as per his will....

n there is no proof that the dai is in direct contact with the present day Imam...syedna taher saifuddin has denied it himself.......
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it is u all who think like this otherwise truth is something elsedear anyways it upto u what to think

[Al Zulfiqar]

and what about yr bawasaab hunting and killing animals in the name of the imam? or refusing to touch ordinary bohras without a rumaal, unless there is lots of money in yr hand or its non-bohras he is shaking hands with?

and what about the rest of the principles of islam, like tauheed and valayat, which the bohras are not following and instead mocking with their sajdas to dai and ignoring mention of maulana ali's lifestyle?

kem dum dabavine bhagi gayo abde??

[S. Insaf]

Friends,
The position and post of a Dai is religious. Dai should remain confined to this limit if he claims to be religious guide.
Bohra reform movement is for social change in the community. Things would be quite clear if you compare present day occupant of high office Dai with earlier Dais. Most of the earlier Dais remained true to their qualifications as prescribed by Fatemi Imam. They were not interested in the worldly comforts and amassing wealth for them or their family members and shano-shaukat. Till 50th Dai Bohra Dai was not known to world outside. During Sir Adamji Peerbhay's time Dai was introduced as "Peer of Mr. Peerbhoy" These Dais were chosen from among common Bohras and NOT from one particular family. They were sent Yemen for proper training and raised step by step as Mukasir Mazoon and Dai.
Things have changed totally today after the 51st Dai decided to build up his "Financial Empire".
The reformist are the true believers of Fatimi Dawah and they respect all posts that of Rasul, his Wasi, his Imams and his Dai. They are challenging the deliberate deviations done by 51st Dai late Taher Saifuddin.
So where is the question reformist or progressive Bohras to appoint their own Dai?
Earlier divisions like Sulemani, Alavi were more political rather than religious.

[S. Insaf]

Dai, Ahmed bin Mohammad Nishapuri during 18th Imam Mustansir Billah has laid down the Qualifications for a true Dai with a warning note that:

“If a Dai does not posses these qualifications and still considered as Dai then he is Dai in name without meaning and he will not benefit the community. It is useless to hope for any spiritual profit from such Dai. The assumption of name of Dai for such a Dai is a Sin and he is a sort of burden over him and community. There is no respect, honour or pride for Dai.
There are found many such names among the people which have their meaning quite contradictory. Like “Maldeegh” (Snake-bitten) is called “Salim” (Safe) and A’ma (blind) is called “Basir (seeing). Among all angels “Iblis” was called angel; but when he disqualified himself he was know “Satan”.
Thereupon it is to be understood that a name does not benefit. There must also be quality and action combined with the name, otherwise the name of Dai is simply to deceive and rob the people of their money in order to live in luxury at the expenses of others.”

Will our friends on the other side of the fence understand this before blaming the reformists?

[Al Zulfiqar]

Saifuddinbhai,

welcome back! it is good to see u back healthy and better amongst our midst and still having the same spirit to fight against the oppressors and deceivers.

but tell me, is this endeavour to scatter pearls of wisdom and knowledge among ignorant taheris of any use? for every truth that the reformists try to publicise, the kothar comes up with 10 lies to defeat them.

the number of reformists is not growing. the number of bohras who are secretly aware and complaining has. yet they lack the courage to speak up. take action or leave.

[Smart]

@abde(meaning slave)
Why can't reformists appoint their own dai?

It is because the retrogressive's dai has run away with the property of the community.

Let the dai of the retrogressives give back to the community, what by right belongs to the community, then the progressives can see what is to be done.

[Smart]

I just realised:

Does abde syedna mean choron ka ghulam?