kadam bossi of TUS, how islamic?

[Muslim First]

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Br.Pro_pig
AS

I am smart enough and scholarly compared to you but there are so many knowledgeable brothers and sisters in Boston Area that my time is better utilized in helping them in some other way.

I have done more than required to help my folks and village people then you.

As far as leaving Maulana alone, I wish other Muslim paid attention to this back stabber. He has given money and comfort to sworn enemies of Muslims in Gujarat and Bombay. He has created disunity and riots by his open cursing. Prophet SAW has said When you see bad you must protest at least verbally (in this case on internet).

Wasalaam
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[Muslim First]

we dont need your comments.if u see hindu,they worship snake,cows,rat,monkey and etc we dont go and tell them what to worship every body has their own systems.

Even though Bohras have claimed that they are different kind of Muslaman, Let them declare that they do not follow sunnah of prohet completely. Then I will stop.

[spot]

muslim first,

Regarding hadith examples

from Sahih Bukhari:
al-Zuhri said: Anas bin Malik told me: The Prophet came out after the sun passed the mid-point of the sky and offered the Zuhr prayer (in congregation). After finishing it with Taslim, he stood on the pulpit and mentioned the Hour and mentioned there would happen great events before it. Then he said, "Whoever wants to ask me any question, may do so, for by Allah, you will not ask me about anything but I will inform you of it as long as I am at this place of mine." The people were weeping profusely (because of the Prophet's anger). Allah's Apostle kept saying, "Ask Me! " Then a man got and asked, ''Where will my entrance be, O Allah's Apostle?" The Prophet said, "The Fire." Then `Abd Allah ibn Hudhafa got up and asked, "Who is my father, O Allah's Apostle?" The Prophet replied, "Your father is Hudhafa." The Prophet then kept on saying (angrily), "Ask me! Ask me!" `Umar then fell to his knees and said, "We have accepted Allah as our Lord and Islam as our religion and Muhammad as our Apostle." Allah's Apostle became quiet when `Umar said that. Then Allah's Apostle said, "Woe! By Him in Whose Hand my life is, Paradise and Hell were displayed before me just now, across this wall while I was praying, and I never saw such good and evil as I have seen today."

Usama ibn Sharik narrates: "I came to see the Prophet while his Companions were with him, and they seemed as still as if birds had alighted on top of their heads. I gave him my salam and I sat down. [Then Beduins came and asked questions which the Prophet answered.] ... The Prophet then stood up and the people stood up. They began to kiss his hand, whereupon I took his hand and placed it on my face. I found it more fragrant than musk and cooler than sweet water."
Ibn al-Muqri' in al-Rukhsa (p. 58 #2) narrates it with a chain which Ibn al-Hajar graded as "strong" (sanaduhu qawiy) in Fath al-Bari (1989 ed. 11:67) and he listed it among the "good" (jayyid) narrations of Ibn al-Muqri' on the topic. Imam Bayhaqi included it as part of the proofs for the fact that giving honor to the Prophet is part of faith in Chapter 15 of his Shu`ab al-iman entitled: The Fifteenth Branch of Faith, Namely A Chapter On Rendering Honor To The Prophet, Declaring His High Rank, And Revering Him (al-khamis `ashar min shu`ab al-iman wa huwa babun fi ta`zim al-nabi sallallahu `alayhi wa sallama wa ijlalihi wa tawqirih). Ibn al-I`rabi narrated it with a stronger chain yet in his book al-Qubal.

It is partially narrated, without the mention of the kiss, by Abu Dawud (#3855), Tirmidhi (2038 -- hasan sahih), Ibn Majah (3436), al-Hakim (4:399), and Ahmad (4:278).

Burayda said: When we were with Allah's Messenger on an expedition, a Bedouin came and asked for a miracle. The Prophet pointed at a tree and said to the Bedouin: "Tell that tree: Allah's Messenger summons you." The Beduin did, whereupon the tree swayed and brought itself out, and came to the presence of the Prophet saying: "Peace be upon you, O Messenger of Allah!" The Bedouin said: "Now let it return to its place!" When Allah's Messenger ordered it, the tree went back. The Bedouin said: "let me prostrate to you!" The Messenger answered: "If I commanded anyone to do that, I would command the wife to prostrate to her husband." The Bedouin said: "Then give me permission to kiss your hands and feet." The Prophet gave him permission.
Qadi `Iyad narrated it in al-Shifa' (1:299) and al-Bazzar in his Musnad (3:49). The editor of Suyuti's Manahil al-safa (p. 124 #575) said: See Kashf al-astar (3:132). Ghazali cites the account of the kiss in the Ihya' and al-Hakim in the Mustadrak as well as Ibn Muqri'. Both al-Hakim and al-`Iraqi declared its chain authentic (sahih), as stated by al-Zabidi in his Ithaf (6:280) while Dhahabi declared it weak. However, Ibn Hajar included the hadith of Burayda among Ibn al-Muqri's good narrations (min jayyidiha) on the subject of kissing the hand, and Qadi `Iyad also mentions a similar narration from Ibn `Umar which Suyuti said was narrated by Darimi, Bayhaqi, and al-Bazzar with a sound chain. Qadi `Iyad said the hadith of the tree's uprooting and coming to the Prophet is also narrated by Jabir, Ibn Mas`id, Ya`la ibn Murra, Usama ibn Zayd, Anas ibn Malik, `Ali ibn Abi Talib, Ibn `Abbas, and others who all agreed on the same account and so did the Tabi`in who related it.


Ibn `Umar was sent with a detachment by the Prophet. The people wheeled round in flight. He said: I was one of those who wheeled round in flight. When we stopped, we said: What should we do? We have run away from the battlefield and deserve Allah's wrath. Then we said: Let us enter Medina, stay there, and go there while no one sees us. So we came and thought: If we present ourselves before the Prophet, and if there is amnsety for us, we shall stay; if there is something else, we shall go away. So we sat down waiting for the Prophet before the dawn prayer. When he came out, we stood up to him and said: We are the ones who have fled. He turned to us and said: No, you are the ones who return to fight after wheeling away. We then approached and kissed his hand, and he said: "I am the main body of the Muslims." (ana fi'atu al-muslimin).
Narrated by Bukhari in his Adab al-mufrad, see Bab taqbil al-yad (Chapter on Kissing the Hand) and Bab taqbil ar-rijl (Chapter on Kissing the Foot), also in Abu Dawud's Sunan (Book of Jihad, chapter on desertion in the face of the enemy) -- al-`Iraqi said: "with a fair (hasan) chain," see Zabidi's Ithaf (6:280) -- also in Tirmidhi's Sunan, (book of Jihad, chapter on flight in the face of the enemy) but without mention of the kissing and he said: hasan gharib, also Ibn Majah's Sunan (Book of Adab #3704), Bayhaqi through al-Shafi`i in his Sunan (9:76-77) and in Dala'il al-nubuwwa, Ibn Abi Shayba in his Musannaf (8:749-750 Adab), al-Khattabi through al-Humaydi in Gharib al-hadith (1:331), Abu Ya`la in his Musnad (8:42), Ibn Sa`d in his Tabaqat (4:1/107) and Ahmad in the Musnad (2:58, 2:70) and also without mention of kissing (2:86, 2:100, 2:111). Ibn Hajar in Fath al-Bari (1989 ed. 11:67) cited it in his lof the narrations providing evidence for kissing the hand and he did not weaken it.

[spot]

muslimfirst,

regarding qadam bosi (kissing the hand and feet)

please see the link for the hadith reference:
http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/h ... rhand.html

the remaining is regarding sajad as'sukar

regarding the ayats you quoted:
surah fussilat 41, v37. refers to prostration in worship..because those that prostrated to the sun and moon were worshipping them.

surah hajj 22, v77 refers to kneel and prostrate and serve (abidu) your lord...this is meant in the state of worship because the term abidu is used as in abdu'rabbikum.

your translations are completely incorrect.

and you still haven't answered why allah had the angel prostrate before adam? why would allah force the angels to worship adam if prostration is in and of itself worship. my agrument is prostration is nothing is you don't have the niyyat of worship.

[accountability]

MF: if you go through the spot posts, i think, he has successfully made the point, that prostration in itself is not worship, unless it is intention, or niyat of worship.

I do agree, that kissing feet or bending are demeaning acts and negation of human dignity. Regardless that prostration without niyat is worship or not, syedna saheb may ask their followers, not to kiss feet and bend before him. Human dignity demands self respect, and hurting it is not humane.

[spot]

dear accountablility,
what is considered humility and humilation is very skewed in the western mind set.

in the manner of a teacher to his student..the teacher deserves respect and honor...in his knowledge and allowance to teach his knowledge.

realize this may seem antiquated in its ideals...but is the method taught by the prophet and imams in regards to gaining spirtual knowledge.

most of the modern day sufi and ignostic sects of islam subscribe to this method of acquiring knowledge.

kissing the hands and feets were signs of respect for the sheik and is in this frame work that the prophet allowed it.

[anajmi]

accty,

How does one make a niyat of worship?

[accountability]

like you do at the start of every prayer, you say it and mean it, that you are about to bow before the lord.

[anajmi]

Let me rephrase.

What do you say in the niyat of worship and what do you say in the other kind of niyat which is of respect?

[spot]

anajmi,
every action of worship has a niyyat.
when you zabiha you say at minimum "bismillah allahu akbar".

when you start your start you say "bismillah".

when you start you salat you say "usalli fardh salatil magribe talatin rakatin lillahe..." (i am performing the required salat of maghrib, three rakaats for allah...)

when you fast you take the niyyat of fasting for each day (some scholar alway one niyyat for the entire month).

[Muslim First]

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Niyyah is in heart. Does it mean that if I steal something and did not Niyyah then it is not stealing?

Please read the following:
_____________________________________________

Mumbling the Niyyah or intention, and uttering it in a low audible voice.

The heart is the place of intention. Mumbling words such as "I intend to pray such prayer or such number of rak'aat, or I intend to fast, or do such act of worship or another," just before starting prayer is a bid'ah which was practiced neither by the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wasallam) nor his companions, nor by their followers.

Uttering the above words of niyyah allows shaitaan to put irrelevant words in the mouth of the person who utters the niyyah. Do you remember at one time or another that once you stood up for dhuhr prayer and discovered yourself saying, "I intend to pray four rak'aat of Isha," or when you were standing for Asr prayer you made your intention to pray fajr instead? This confusion is from shaitan. Had you kept silent, shaitan would have no chance of confusing you.
______________________________________________

Brother AC & spott, I will get back when I find little time.

Wasalaam
.

[spot]

muslimfirst,
the intention is in the heart..and the recitation is not meant to be heard but as a clarifier of the intent in the heart for what is to be performed.

it is done no different than how the duas are said in ruku, sujud, or tashahud.

[accountability]

dear spot: MF made a good point,

Niyyah is in heart. Does it mean that if I steal something and did not Niyyah then it is not stealing?

If bowing and prostration is worship, doing so should be constured as worship with or without niyah. Let me put it this way, if you only have the niyah, but do not act accordingly, would it consture as worship. I believe not, but if you act as to worship, but do not have the niyah, it may be constured as worship.

In any justice system, only intentions are not enough to punish or not punish, unless it is supported by the action. Intention to steal will not get punished, but stealing without intention will get punished. so, actions begets reaction, not the intentions only.

In surah qariyah, allah said, you will be rewarded for one grain of good deeds, and you will be punished for one grain of bad deeds.

[spot]

dear accountability and muslim first,

while the point may sound good, it does not coinside with what allah says.

firstly muslim first example is easily corrected. if a person steals, with the intention to steal...he has sinned according to allah. the person has sinned just for attempting to take the item.

however, if a person takes something..but did know he was actually stealing it (ie taking someone else's belonging)...he has not sinned according to allah.

if a person does something not knowing the action is sinful...is he sinful? according to allah...he would not be sinful...because he didn't know he was sinning.

this is only because his intention (niyyat) was not to be sinful.

this only works with allah..because he know your thoughts and your heart...and is what allah cares for most.

this applies to bowing and prostration. remember, if you are not physically able you don't have to bow or prostrate in salat. just the intention of bowing and prostration for allah in worship is required.

and the reverse is also true. if you prayed four rakats with the niyyat of praying isha, but in fact the time was zuhr...your salat is invalid. by all rights you prayed the entire salat the same way...but because the niyyat was wrong...the entire salat is void. the niyyat is required and must be correct...for the action to be counted at all.

[spot]

accountability

just a clarifier:

If bowing and prostration is worship, doing so should be constured as worship with or without niyah.

-actually this is my point...bowing and prostration is not worship without the intention.

Let me put it this way, if you only have the niyah, but do not act accordingly, would it consture as worship.

---actually it is considered worship in this way. if you intend to perform an act of worship but are not able to complete it...it is still accepted.

I believe not, but if you act as to worship, but do not have the niyah, it may be constured as worship.

--constured as worship to who?? if you don't have the niyyah...why would allah care if you did it or not. allah doesn't care what others think you may be doing...it is what you are thinking/feeling that allah is concerned for.

remember, looking like a mumin (beard, siya-kurta, attending every majlis, etc)...doesn't mean you actually are one.

this is the key.