I Admit Muta is HARAM!12er exposes muta and so do zaydis.

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Al-Uqul

I Admit Muta is HARAM!12er exposes muta and so do zaydis.

#1

Unread post by Al-Uqul » Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:56 am

I got this Explanation From a Sunni Brother,Who Loves Ahl al-Bayt and is Knowledgable about These matters.As the Forum Members Know,i was a Ardent Muta supporter,But Al-Hamdulillah i have found the Light,and have gotten a Good explanation on Verse 4:24 of the Quran,and also the hadiths of Umar Forbidding it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ProAhlulBayt1

He Sent me a Private Message Saying:
Also do you know the user link/awakened/gangster on shiachat ? He accepted that muta is haraam after hearing thsi from imam al asi. Today the 12r Shia brother is banned from shiachat for questioning taqleed and muta.


Here is what he says about mahr.

I discussed with people on another forum.

It seems one view (atlernatively then it referring to Muta) is that it refers to the 2nd Mahr.

Shia and Sunni both believe there is ajer twice, one right at the moment of getting married (so to be given right at moment of marriage or before) and one after.

So here is where Quran shows there is two Mahrs according to that view. Also the 2nd mahr, the amount can be changed by wifes permission, so here it seems they can agree on something different then original agreement. So it doesn't contradict that part as well.

I can't see it being invalid by the verse itself.

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php ... a642ae08b7


Abdaal linked me to an Imam Al-Asi video, in he brought this verse as an argument against Muta, and I would want to address what the words here mean:

الْيَوْمَ أُحِلَّ لَكُمُ الطَّيِّبَاتُ وَطَعَامُ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَابَ حِلٌّ لَّكُمْ وَطَعَامُكُمْ حِلُّ لَّهُمْ وَالْمُحْصَنَات ُ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنَاتِ وَالْمُحْصَنَات ُ مِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَابَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ إِذَا آتَيْتُمُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ مُحْصِنِينَ غَيْرَ مُسَافِحِينَ وَلاَ مُتَّخِذِي أَخْدَانٍ وَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِالإِيمَانِ فَقَدْ حَبِطَ عَمَلُهُ وَهُوَ فِي الآخِرَةِ مِنَ الْخَاسِرِينَ




غَيْرَ مُسَافِحِينَ وَلاَ مُتَّخِذِي أَخْدَانٍ


Also notice that Ajer has to be given for them to be Halal while in Muta, it doesn't have to be given before (and by verse of Muta, is seen to be allowable after).

So this seems to be a solid argument.

There is also the verse in Suratal Noor which says to let those whom can't afford marriage to abstain from sex, so the whole for the poor and whom can't afford it things goes away with that.

And also saying 'Malakat Aymanakum" for Muta I thinking was pushing it, and God would have clarified muta outside Zawj and malakat aymanakum so there would be no confusion, because malakat aymanakum has a meaning in people mind and no one would have thought of Muta person being included in that and so that verse also seems to be a valid point against Muta.

Also if Malakat Aymanakum includes people of Muta, then إِلاَّ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ includes them, and وَأُحِلَّ لَكُم مَّا وَرَاء ذَلِكُمْ أَن تَبْتَغُواْ بِأَمْوَالِكُم مُّحْصِنِينَ غَيْرَ مُسَافِحِينَ فَمَا اسْتَمْتَعْتُم بِهِ would have to be seen over people excluded from that, and so you can conclude from the verse that believers protect their private parts except from wives and malakat aymanakum would contradict Muta...

Now we often make mistakes, but to me it seems these arguments are solid, so would appreciate a discussion on this. Also, I don't how anyone can be caught for Zina when they could just say we are doing Muta if caught (and the verses being particucarly for non-married Zinas makes it seem something is wrong with what has been said and passed down)? Thoughts...

wa salam

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php ... p__1991620

On the contrary you will have still have endless loop from the 12rs. However, I am glad I can convince one 12r.'''

Amazing Explanation,it removed my doubts on Muta's Tahrim.

Al-Uqul

Re: I Admit Muta is HARAM!12er exposes muta and so do zaydis

#2

Unread post by Al-Uqul » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:04 am

ZAYDI ARGUMENT AGAINST MUTA

''''''''''''''''Well bro you are an Ismaili so they can't use Sunni ahadith against you. What the sahaba said is invalid for you. Therefore, in your books Imam Ali (as) confirms its forbideen in khaybar. If you debate with them, don't waste time defending ahadith in Bukhari. Its not your books. Just ask them to use the Quran.

As for 12rs, if a girl is virgin she need permission from her father. However, their marriage or muta otherwise does not need permission. Therefore, if can do muta with a prostitute.
Also in the 12rs fiqh, their marriages and muta both do not require witness.Therefore, if a person does zina he can just lie and say he did muta to cover it up. We can't do that with any other school of thought. In fact, in Iran they added a bidah where a person needs a permit to for muta. However, their fiqh doesn't have these rules.


Read this article on the subject.
As for the meaning of istimtatum does not mean muta. It is defined as those who have benefited from..
The root of the Arabic word, istimta' is م - ت - ع (meem, taa, 'ain) which means to derive benefit. Any benefit derived from a person or from wealth, property, assets, etc. is called istimta'. According to Arabic grammar, the addition of the letters س (seen) and ت (taa) to the root of any word gives the meaning of seeking. Based on this lexical explanation, the simple and straight sense of the Qur'anic expression, Istamta'tum (you have benefited), as understood by the entire Muslim ummah from the revered early elders to their successors and followers, is just what we have stated a little earlier. But, a sect[1] says that it means the conventional mut'ah and, according to its adherents, this Ayat proves that mut'ah is halaal (lawful). Therefore, it is pertinent here to give a brief account of mut'ah and its unlawfulness.
http://www.ummah.net/Al_adaab/fiqh/mutah.html

However, avoid using ahadith when debating with 12rs.''''

''''Like I said bro the 12r shia who knew the rules of muta inside out and rejected it. He also credits Al Asi for it. If there are debates after that which have endless loops then I am not going to create my own endless loops.
The user name is awakened/link/gangster. He is a 12r who is banned now.
As for Muta the sahabi Abdullah ibn Abbas (ra) said it was halaal. Later his Abbasid descendants wanted to force the ummah into that view. Therefore, we have all these ahadith about the issue. However, Abdullah ibn Abbas (ra) said muta is a conditional marriage. The fiqh of muta today differs. For example in the 12rs fiqh if you see a hot girl you can just do muta with her. There are no ahadith which support this type of muta.

Also the Zaydis and Ismailis say Muta was never allowed in the Quran. They don't agree that 4:24 allowed muta.
Next the 12rs say that a verse has to be send down to abolish muta. Firstly who said all the sahabis agreed that muta was for 4:24 ? . You will find some but not others. All the 12rs can do is use ahadith. There is no explicit verse for it.
''

Zaydi argument against muta

Now there were some sahaba like Ibn Abbas (ra) who said muta was halaal and he believed verse 4:24 supports it. Not all the sahabas agreed with his tafseer. Later his children the Abbasids tried to make muta halaal and therefore we see some ahadith in favor of it. The Zaydis and Ismailis don't blame Umar for this. They instead say the Abbasids tried to promote it.

Also so called Jafari fiqh of the 12rs say there is no witness required for either marriage or muta. I guess they did this so they can dodge themselves out of this argument of muta.
So if a person among 12rs does zina they can just save themselves by saying they did muta. Ironically in Iran they contradict the Jafari fiqh by adding a bidah where a permit is required for muta.
Here is article where Zaydis challenge 12rs using their hadith books and verses of the Quran.
12rs Vs Zaydis on Muta
Another difference between us and them is temporary marriage. We prohibit it based on the narration of Imām Zayd bin Ali on the authority of his father, on the authority of Ali, peace be upon him, who said: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, forbade temporary marriage in Khaybar.
He also narrates on the authority of his father, on the authority of Ali, peace be upon him, who said: There's no establishing a marriage except by a guardian (wali) and two witnesses; not by a dirham or two dirhams and not one day or two days like pouring (shabah as-safāh).
The Exalted says: {Then whoever seeks to go beyond that are transgressors} (Q. 23:7) and {As for the adulteress and the adulterer, flog each of them with a hundred stripes} (Q. 24:2).
Consequently, if there's no obedience then the punishment must be applied to the man and woman because all of acts of adultery could be termed as temporary marriage.
The Exalted says: {Those who commit immorality of your women-bring against them four witnesses from amongst yourselves} (Q. 4:15); because one does not know from the witness ityān obscenity. They could claim that it was temporary marriage. Because of that, witnesses cannot follow that if the testimony is not established. Because they did not know that temporary marriage was from amongst the obscenities. However, if the temporary marriage between a man and woman is without witnesses and a guardian, one does not know whether he is a person that did temporary marriage or adulterer. They may even testify that he is an adulterer. The accuser could not come against the adulterer with four witnesses with this lack of knowledge of the case as testified from this verse. The accuser would falsely expose them using this verse.
The Exalted also says: {And as for those who are unable to marry, let them live in abstinence until God grants them sufficiency out of His bounty} (Q. 24:33). If temporary marriage was permissible, it would present it here [as an option] and not command them to be abstinent. It does not [permit temporary marriage] even amongst the poor of the poor.
He also says: {And as for those of you who, owing to cir¬cumstances, are not in a position to marry free believing women, [let them marry] believing maidens} (Q. 4:25). If temporary marriage was permissible, it would not be a proof against the marriage of the community. Consequently, it would produce children who are from owned slaves. Nothing would distinguish these marriages except the condition of fear of constraint (al-`anat). He then says: {It is best for you to remain patient} (Q. 4:25). If temporary marriage was allowed then there would be fear (khash) of constraint or no encouragement to patience; otherwise, it's contrary to wisdom and community interest. Its taking place can include many immoralities. Perhaps an unknown, temporary marriage could take place with a woman and another man could come by and do a temporary marriage with her afterwards. This could mix up the people. Perhaps a woman would do a temporary marriage with someone's father after [the temporary marriage is over with] him, or even someone's son [after him]. This would lead to something being unknown. Perhaps the child of a man out of a temporary marriage is a son or daughter, they will not be known or they will not know him. If this occurs, this would be something very strange! Perhaps a girl will marry her father, brother, or nephew. A boy will perhaps marry his sister or someone else that is prohibited for him to marry. The child could be deprived of his father's inheritance and this would be oppression (dhulm) against the inheritor. Such occurrences prohibit (harama) and defer adultery; the same exists regarding temporary marriage.
The proof for its abrogation and proscription is a narration in the Amāli of Ahmed bin `Isa bin Zayd bin Ali that was narrated by Muhammad bin Mansūr al-Murādi, may Allah's mercy be upon him. He said: Muhammad—Ahmed bin `Isa bin Zayd—Hussein bin Alwān—his father, Khālid—Zayd bin Ali—his father—Ali, peace be upon them, said: "The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, prohibited temporary marriage for us during the battle of Khaybar." It says in Ar-Rawdh an-Nadhīr: al-Bukhari, Muslim, Mu`ayyad Billah, and other texts: on the authority of Mālik—Ibn Shihāb—Abdullah—Hasan bin Muhammad bin Ali—their father—Ali bin Abi Tālib, peace be upon them, narrated that the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, prohibited temporary marriage during Khaybar and the meat of domesticated asses.
Mu`ayyad Billah, peace be upon him, relates in his chain of authorities (isnādihi) on the authority of Abdullah—Hasan—his father—his grandfather—Ali, peace be upon them, said: "The Messenger of Allah prohibited (harama) temporary marriage of women during Khaybar. He said: ((One does not perform this action except that he is flogged.))"
Al-Bayhaqi includes in his chain of authorities Ilyās bin Amr on the authority of Ali, peace be upon him, who said: "The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, prohibited temporary marriage." It is also related in Al-Amāli al-Masma Rab as-Sadi'
In the Amāli narrated by Muhammad—Qāsim bin Ibrahim—Isma'il bin Abi Uwais—Hussein bin Abdullah bin Ďamīrah—his father—his grandfather—Ali said: "The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, prohibited temporary marriage." This is also related by at-Tabarāni in his Awsat.
At-Tirmidhi narrates on the authority of A'isha who said: "The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, said: ((Make these marriages in open and in the mosques.)) This is also in at-Takhrīkh.
Also in the Amāli narrated by Muhammad—Muhammad bin Ubaid—on the authority of Abdur-Rahīm bin Suleiman—on the authority of Abdullah bin Umar—on the authority of az-Zuhri—on the authority of Hasan and Abdullah bin Muhammad bin al-Hanifiyya—on the authority of their fathers—Ali said to Ibn Abbās during a conversation about the temporary marriage: "The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, prohibited it on Khaybar as well [prohibited] the meat of domesticated asses."
It is also narrated by Muhammad—Muhammad bin Ubaid—Abu Mālik—on the authority of Hajjāj—on the authority of az-Zuhri—Hasan—his brother, Ibn Muhammad bin al-Hanifiyya—on the authority of their father—Ali: "The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, prohibited (harama) temporary marriage of women during Khaybar."
It is also narrated by Muhammad—Abu Hāshim—on the authority of Yahya bin Yamān—on the authority of Mu`ammar—on the authority of az-Zuhri—on the authority Hasan bin Muhammad—on the authority of Ali: "The Messenger of Allah prohibited temporary marriage of women and the meat of domesticated asses during Khaybar." This hadith is also related in [Saheeh] Muslim.
It is also related by Muhammad bin Mansūr al-Murādi on the authority of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, that he prohibited and abrogated it in six different narrations (turuq).
It is narrated on the authority of Ibn Abbās that he returned and said: "It is like blood, dead meat (maytata), and pork." This is in 3 different narrations.
Concerning its prohibition, Abdullah bin Hasan narrates that it was held by the People of the House; his son, Muhammad bin Abdullah "Nafs az-Zakiyya", Zayd bin Ali, Ja'far as-Sādiq, Qāsim bin Ibrahim, and Ahmed bin `Isa.
Al-Hādi, al-Qāsim, Ahmed bin `Isa, Zayd bin Ali, and Muhammad bin Mansūr narrate: ((There's no marriage except with a guardian and two witnesses.))
Al-Hādi, al-Qāsim, Muhammad, on the authority of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, that he prohibited temporary marriage. Zayd and Ahmed bin `Isa narrates this on the authority of Ali, peace be upon him.
Muhammad, in his chain of authority, narrates on the authority of Abdullah bin Muhammad bin Umar bin Ali—on the authority of his father—on the authority of Ali, peace be upon him: "Verily, the guardian is required for marriage; otherwise, there is no marriage. Whoever marries a woman without the permission of her guardian, the marriage is void."
Muhammad narrates on the authority of Ahmed bin `Isa, Zayd bin Ali, al-Bāqir, Ibn Abbās, and Ali, peace be upon them: "There's no marriage except with a guardian."
Muhammad, in his chain of authority, narrates on the authority of Ibn Abbās and A'isha on the authority of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny: ((There's no marriage except with a guardian.))
Also, in his chain of authority to al-Bāqir: "The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, said: ((There's no marriage except with a guardian and two just witnesses. If there is no guardian, then the sultan is the guardian.))"
Also, in his chain of authority to Ali: "The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, prohibited temporary marriage. There's no marriage except with a guardian and two witnesses."
The hadith: "There's no marriage except with a guardian" is related in five different narrations by an-Nisa'i, Ahmed [bin Hanbal], and Ibn Majah.
Muhammad, in his chain of authority, narrates on the authority of Abu Hurayra: "The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, said: ((There's no marriage to a woman with a woman as a guardian and a woman cannot be a guardian of herself.))" This is also narrated by Ibn Majah and ad-Daraqutni. This is a proof for the invalidity of temporary marriage because in a temporary marriage, there is no guardian or witnesses.
This is supported by the statements of Allah, the Exalted: {...so, marry them [i.e. the women] with the permission of their people} (Q. 4:25), {Marry the unmarried amongst you} (Q. 24:32), {Do not refuse them to remarry their husbands if they agree to each others' conditions} (Q. 2:232), and {Do not marry the idolaters until they believe} (Q. 2:221). In all of these verses are injunctions for men to marry. Observe how Allah says: {Do not marry the idolaters}. It is a designation for those to marry other than themselves. That is, they are not to marry the women of the idolaters. He also says: {Do not marry the idolatress} (Q. 2:221). This designates a marriage, because marriage is the place of the man to marry himself.
Mu`ayyad Billah says concerning the prohibition of temporary marriage: "It is the statement of all of the Zaydis. The rest of the scholars are rumored regarding expiration (?). It was permitted at a time but it invalidated the condition": (meaning that the duration of the designated condition made marriage easier. Allah knows best. This was presented by the author. May Allah protect him!) The Imāmis hold that it is permissible (halaal). It is finished.

Al-Uqul

Re: I Admit Muta is HARAM!12er exposes muta and so do zaydis

#3

Unread post by Al-Uqul » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:18 am

Before the marriage you make an agreement for the dowry. After the marriage is done and the wife becomes responsible for your duties you have to pay them according to the agreement. Hence that is what you stipulated.

Therefore the Quran says give them their wages, the dowries that you have assigned them, as an obligation.
'''

I Hereby Retract my supprt Fro Muta,and Would Appreciate disrespectfull users not to Call em mutahnicater,in Everyone ahs a Right to His or Her Opinion


Its only 3 marriage for them because the 12rs say Istamta'tum - only is for sex.
However, the non-12r translation is of Istamta'tum is benefit.
Benefit can include other responsibilities.

As for witness, look here.

ANSWER:

It is absolutely true, as you read in Ay Seestani's Resalah, that there
are no witnesses required for performing Nikah or Muta. However,
witnesses are required for Talaq. You will notice the opposite trend in
the sunnis where witnesses are required for Nikah and not for Talaq.

Wallaahu A'alam,

Mustafa

http://www.al-islam.org/organizations/a ... 00200.html

Also look here.

فيه حديث واحد

1 ـ الكافي 5 : 369 | 1 .
(1) يأتي ما يدل عليه في الحديثين 2 و 9 من الباب 1 من ابواب عقد النكاح واولياء العقد .

الباب 43
فيه 10 احاديث

1 ـ الكافي 5 : 387 | 2 .
( 98 )

محمّد بن يحيى ، عن عبدالله بن محمد ، عن ابن أبي عمير ، عن هشام بن سالم ، عن أبي عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) قال : انما جعلت البينات للنسب والمواريث .
[ 25130 ] 2 ـ قال : وفي رواية اخرى : والحدود .
[ 25131 ] 3 ـ وعنه ، عن أبيه ، عن ابن أبي عمير ، عن عمر بن اذينة ، عن زرارة بن أعين قال : سئل أبو عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) عن الرجل يتزوج المرأة بغير شهود ، فقال : لا بأس بتزويج البتة فيما بينة وبين الله ، انما جعل الشهود في تزويج البتة من أجل الولد ، لولا ذلك لم يكن به بأس .
ورواه الشيخ بإسناده عن الحسين بن سعيد ، عن القاسم ابن عروة ، عن ابن بكير ، عن زرارة مثله إلا أنه قال : يتزوج المرأة متعة (1) .
[ 25132 ] 4 ـ وعنه ، عن أبيه ، وعن محمد بن إسماعيل ، عن الفضل بن شاذان ، عن ابن أبي عمير ، عن حفص بن البختري ، عن أبي عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) في الرجل يتزوج بغير بينة ، قال : لا بأس .
[ 25133 ] 5 ـ وعن عدة من أصحابنا ، عن سهل بن زياد ، عن داود النهدي ، عن ابن أبي نجران ، عن محمد بن الفضيل قال : قال أبوالحسن موسى ( عليه السلام ) لابي يوسف القاضي : ان الله أمر في كتابه بالطلاق وأكد فيه بشاهدين ولم يرض بهما إلا عدلين وأمر في كتابه بالتزويج فأهمله بلا شهود ، فأثبتم شاهدين فيما أهمل ، وأبطلتم الشاهدين فيما أكد .
____________

http://www.rafed.net/books/hadith/wasael-20/v05.html#43



I Started a Thread challenging Qadhi numan and his statements on Muta,No divorce Neccessery and No relation to the Father,However His Views Are Likely Correct ,and i Retract my statement.

Here You will find Contradictarary Hadiths:


[ 26453 ] 7 ـ وبهذا الاسناد عن أبي سعيد القماط ، عمن رواه قال : قلت لابي عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) : جارية بكر بين أبويها تدعوني إلى نفسها سرا من أبويها ، فأفعل ذلك ؟ قال نعم ، واتق موضع الفرج ، قال : قلت فان رضيت بذلك ، قال : وإن رضيت ، فانه عار على الابكار .


7 -- And by this isnad from Abu Sa`id the rope-maker from the one who narrated to him. He said: I said to Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام: A virgin girl still with her parents who invites me to herself secretly from her parents, so do I do that? He said: Yes, and avoid the place of the vulva (al-farj). He said: I said: So if she consents to that? He said: Even if she consents, for it is a shame upon the virgins.

http://www.tashayyu.org/hadiths/marriag ... th-virgins

This link will cover the fiqh of their muta.
http://www.tashayyu.org/hadiths/marriage/muta


in the above You will See ,contradictarary Hadiths,If it Were From allah then you wouldnt find Inconsistency in It.

It is Possible the Twelvers Later Adapted other Measures ,Regulation,Conditions for their Muta Marriage,Just as they abandoned the Above Regulation they ascribe to imam Jafar Al-Sadiq(a.s).

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: I Admit Muta is HARAM!12er exposes muta and so do zaydis

#4

Unread post by incredible » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:36 am

take this entire thread shiachat.com you will get a proper reply....

Al-Uqul

Re: I Admit Muta is HARAM!12er exposes muta and so do zaydis

#5

Unread post by Al-Uqul » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:26 pm

incredible wrote:take this entire thread shiachat.com you will get a proper reply....
Brother,Incredible

I Believe you Are a Ithna Ashari twelver shi'i,Or your a Bohra Confused About Nikah.
The man Awakened is a Twelver Ithna Ashari and has Discussed this With them in Detail and Then They Banned His Account

I Myself Brought these to shiachat forumotion and Ive Been Getting nothing but attacks,in fact i Spent a Whole Week Defending isma'ilis on there Because They Started to Make Takfir on Isma'ilis when i asked them Some simple questions on Wilayat

What about the verse 5:5: muhsineena ghayra musafiheena wala muttakhithee akhdanin.

- when ye give them their due dowers, and desire chastity, not lewdness, nor secret intrigues if any one rejects faith, fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good). (Al Quran 5:5)

Refer to these words
desire chastity- not lewdness nor secret intrigues
In the 12rs school muta includes lewdness and secret intrigues.


4:25: muhsanatin ghayra masafihatin wala muttakhithati akhdanin
4:25 Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable: They should be chaste, not lustful, nor taking paramours.

Again the condition
They should be chaste- not lustful or taking paramours.


Im Afraid,I ,Al-Uqul The Traditonal Mutahnicator of The Thread,Denounce muta,and i will not Let Lust and shaitan's Whispers Deny The Clear and Open Truth.

The Truth is The Truth,Even if It Goes against Ourselves,We Should Be Truthfull(when taqiyah doesnt Apply Of Course)

I Was Quiet Dissappointed Myself,But Atleast I know Now With No Doubt ''''''muta'''''',''''Misyar'''' and The Iranian'''''' Izdivaj-mutawaqaf'''' is Haram.'

m Afraid,the Twelver books Have Insults Against Bibi Fatima(a.s),Insults i can nt Repeat,Insults i Can not Mention to You,And when i Heard these Hadiths(wich was Vwerified by a Twelver Scholar Shaykh Al-abtahi, and Twelvers on shiachat As Actually Existing)I denounced Shaykh Majlisi,and i Have No Connection to The Twelver Sect.

what They Say is Not TrustWorthy.
what They Say is not Hujjah (Authority)Upon Me.

Al-Uqul

Re: I Admit Muta is HARAM!12er exposes muta and so do zaydis

#6

Unread post by Al-Uqul » Sun Sep 26, 2010 1:01 pm

This Has Been Further elaborated Here `:
http://www.omanforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30915

With a More User Freindly Explanation As well As The Pagan BackRound Of Muta,to anyone Interested.

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

want a reply from shia ithna ashari on board....

#7

Unread post by incredible » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:48 pm

In the name of Allah almighty....


I know there are plenty of ahadith on mutah and i dont want to get into debate if it is halal or haraam,but can any shia ithna ashari on board refute following writtings i found on website?



In order to elevate the spiritual atmosphere, create proper psychological conditions and tranquility of mind, the Province of the Quds'eh-Razavi of Khorassan has created centers for temporary marriage (just next door to the shrine) for those brothers who are
on pilgrimage to the shrine of our eighth Imam, Imam Reza, and who are far away from their spouses.

To that end, we call on all our sisters who are virgins, who are between the ages of 12 and 35 to cooperate with us. Each of our sisters who signs up will be bound by a two year contract with the province of the Quds'eh-Razavi of Khorassan
and will be required to spend at least 25 days of each month temporarily married to those brothers who are on pilgrimage. The period of the contract will be considered as a part of the employment experience of the applicant. The period of each temporary marriage can be anywhere between 5 hours to 10 days. The prices are as follows:

* 5 hour temporary marriage – 50,000 Tomans ($50 US)
* One day temporary marriage – 75,000 Tomans ($75 US)
* Two day temporary marriage – 100,000 Tomans ($100 US)
* Three day temporary marriage – 150,000 Tomans ($150 US)
* Between 4 and 10 day temporary marriage – 300,000 Tomans ($300 US)

Our sisters who are virgins will receive a bonus of 100,000 Tomans ($100 US) for the removal of their hymen .

After the expiration of the two year contract, should our sisters still be under 35 years of age and should they be so inclined, they can be added to the waiting list of those who are seeking long-term temporary marriage. The employed sisters are obligated to donate 5% of their earnings to the Shrine of Imam Reza. We ask that all the sisters who are interested in applying, to furnish two full-length photographs (fully hijabed and properly veiled), their academic diplomas, proof of their virginity and a certificate of good physical and psychological health which they can obtain through the health and human services of the township of their residence. Please forward all compiled material and send to the below address by the 31st of the month of Ordibehesht, 1389 (May 21st, 2010).

Attention: For sisters who are below 14 years of age, a written consent from their fathers or male guardian is required.

Address: Mash'had, Shrine of Imam Reza, Shaheed Navab-Safavi,
Kossar passage, Bureau of Temporary Marriages

or call Haji Mahmood Momtaz : 98/511/222-5790

For further information, please refer to the Quds'eh Razavi website.
http://www.aqrazavi.org/index.htm

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: want a reply from shia ithna ashari on board....

#8

Unread post by porus » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:48 pm

Clearly a thread crying out for deletion. :evil:

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: want a reply from shia ithna ashari on board....

#9

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:27 pm

Bro incredible,

Cannot locate the article on the website given by you.

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: want a reply from shia ithna ashari on board....

#10

Unread post by incredible » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:59 am

iddah makes mutah halal according to ahadith.....

would like to know what will be the iddah period of girl who is accepting mutah for 1 hour?

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: want a reply from shia ithna ashari on board....

#11

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:50 am

Dear brother incredible,

I could not locate the given article on the website. You have been scammed into believing it is authentic.

As for Mut'ah, while I was researching about Islam in-depth a few years ago, the topic of Mut'ah intrigued me. On the internet, I found various opinions about the same, the most common - Mut'ah being akin prostitution (mainly by the ill-informed or the shia-haters). I too had a somewhat similar opinion. After that I realized that Mut'ah is mentioned in the Qur'an, in the ahadith of the Prophet and was practiced by Muslims during the time of the Prophet, first caliph and for some time during the reign of Umar, until he abolished it.

Mut'ah is highly misunderstood. Islam is a religion for all people, for all times. That is why it is multi-faceted. Take for example, the allowance to marry more than one. Islam, is thus suitable for monogamous as well as polygamous societies. As for Mut'ah, there is a saying of Ali (a.s) that whoever misuses Mut'ah is a 'wretched' person. Islam is a practical religion. Allah has set for humans permissible limits. It is only after a person crosses the permissible limits, does he create fire for himself. Mut'ah is a favour from God. There are many situations where Mut'ah is a blessing. One cannot just look at it from the narrow angle of momentary lustful pleasure. Think about situations where a wife is barren or a widow or a divorcee, who cannot for some reason, marry permanently. Why should she fall in sin when Allah has made a facility for her? A healthy sexual life is necessary for spiritual well-being. Islam calls for a balance between physical and spiritual. An imbalance would cause spiritual ailments. Hundreds of examples can be found in the Christian clergy world.

Another interesting facet of Mut'ah is the pronouncement of Mut'ah before the permanent marriage. In Islam, it is not permitted for na-mehram to interact with each other in a manner that to-be-weds would. So, there comes in the temporary marriage which facilitates easy interaction between the to-be-weds. The girl can put in a condition in the Mut'ah that there will be no physical intimacy. Hence, Mut'ah solves the problem of today's day and age when a boy and girl need to know each other well enough before tying the knot!

Hope that helps!

anon_user
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:23 am

DB take on Mutah

#12

Unread post by anon_user » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:12 pm

Hello guys.. I wanted to find out the (mainstream)bohra take on Mutah. Is it allowed or disallowed? The Mutah thing sounds a bit creepy, just thinking about it(but maybe its because of our conditioning). If people like aqs and murtaza could come up with answers...

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: DB take on Mutah

#13

Unread post by Aarif » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:19 pm

People allowing Mutah and doing Mutah are both sinners. Mutah is such a shameful practice. No person with a conscience will ever perform such a shameful act. Whether it is allowed or was ever allowed in Islam is secondary. This has nothing to do with religion. It is a shameful practice even on plain human grounds and if DBs are doing it, shame on them...
However, to answer your specific question the higher ups in Kothar, particularly the royal family members specially go to Iran to perform Mutah as Mutah is not banned in Iran. However, I think the normal DBs do not indulge into such shameful acts...

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: DB take on Mutah

#14

Unread post by incredible » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:07 pm

sajan re jhooth mat bolo,
Khudaa ke paas jaanaa hai
na haathi hai naa ghodaa hai,
wahaan paidal hi jaanaa hai
sajan re jhooth mat bolo,
Khudaa ke paas jaanaa hai
na haathi hai naa ghodaa hai,
wahaan paidal hi jaanaa hai
sajan re jhooth mat bolo

tumhaare mahal chaubaare,
yahin rah jaayenge saare
tumhaare mahal chaubaare,
yahin rah jaayenge saare
akad kis baat ki pyaare
akad kis baat ki pyaare,
ye sar phir bhi jhukaanaa hai
sajan re jhooth mat bolo,
Khudaa ke paas jaanaa hai

bhalaa keejai bhalaa hogaa,
buraa keejai buraa hogaa
bhalaa keejai bhalaa hogaa,
buraa keejai buraa hogaa
bahi likh likh ke kyaa hogaa
bahi likh likh ke kyaa hogaa,
yahin sab kuchh chukaanaa hai
sajan re jhooth mat bolo,
Khudaa ke paas jaanaa hai

ladakpan khel mein khoyaa,
jawaani neend bhar soyaa
ladakpan khel mein khoyaa,
jawaani neend bhar soyaa
budhaapaa dekh kar royaa
budhaapaa dekh kar royaa,
wahi kissaa puraanaa hai
sajan re jhooth mat bolo,
Khudaa ke paas jaanaa hai
na haathi hai naa ghodaa hai,
wahaan paidal hi jaanaa hai
sajan re jhooth mat bolo,
Khudaa ke paas jaanaa hai

aqs
Posts: 848
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:42 am

Re: DB take on Mutah

#15

Unread post by aqs » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:59 am

Aarif wrote:However, to answer your specific question the higher ups in Kothar, particularly the royal family members specially go to Iran to perform Mutah as Mutah is not banned in Iran. However, I think the normal DBs do not indulge into such shameful acts...

Aarif,

and definitely you will have some concrete proof to prove your claim.

murtaza2152
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:26 pm

Re: I Admit Muta is HARAM!12er exposes muta and so do zaydis

#16

Unread post by murtaza2152 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:26 am

@Brother Anon

Mut'aa is HARAM in Dawoodi Bohra , , ,

You can refer to Al-Uquls post for some reference. . .

murtaza2152
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:26 pm

Re: I Admit Muta is HARAM!12er exposes muta and so do zaydis

#17

Unread post by murtaza2152 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:29 am

@Aarif

Bro I am also excited for your proof ,please bring it out and expose Kotharis ! ! !

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: I Admit Muta is HARAM!12er exposes muta and so do zaydis

#18

Unread post by Aarif » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:19 pm

Aarif,
and definitely you will have some concrete proof to prove your claim.
Aqs,
The person who told me about this fact is my cousin. He runs a business of sending people to Karbala, Haj and other holy places. He works closely with kothar as far as his business is concerned. I cannot give you his name and details as it would create a big problem for him. In fact he knows one bohra who has been given the title of sheikh by kotharis. This guy is permanently stationed in Iran. His only job is to find such poor families who are willing to give their daughters for mutah. If by proof you mean photographs of Kotharis performing Mutah, sorry I do not have that but yes this practice is observed by our royal family for their satisfying their lust...

aqs
Posts: 848
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:42 am

Re: I Admit Muta is HARAM!12er exposes muta and so do zaydis

#19

Unread post by aqs » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:05 am

Aarif wrote:
Aarif,
and definitely you will have some concrete proof to prove your claim.
Aqs,
The person who told me about this fact is my cousin. He runs a business of sending people to Karbala, Haj and other holy places. He works closely with kothar as far as his business is concerned. I cannot give you his name and details as it would create a big problem for him. In fact he knows one bohra who has been given the title of sheikh by kotharis. This guy is permanently stationed in Iran. His only job is to find such poor families who are willing to give their daughters for mutah. If by proof you mean photographs of Kotharis performing Mutah, sorry I do not have that but yes this practice is observed by our royal family for their satisfying their lust...
Convince your cousin to blow the lid off these people, if they are corrupt and involve in gair shariyat activities they sure deserve the wrath of Allah as well as people.

i presume your cousin is in Mumbai, can you confirm if he had a travel agency in Punjab Mahal building on Raudat Tahera street which is now closed, the said agency has one branch in khoka bazaar also which is still running.

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: I Admit Muta is HARAM!12er exposes muta and so do zaydis

#20

Unread post by Aarif » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:26 pm

presume your cousin is in Mumbai, can you confirm if he had a travel agency in Punjab Mahal building on Raudat Tahera street which is now closed, the said agency has one branch in khoka bazaar also which is still running.
Aqs,

My cousin does have an office somewhere in proper Mumbai. I cannot reveal anything more than this. I am out of India for quite a few years now and this information about Mutah was given to me by my cousin some 6-7 years back. That is when he had told me about all this. Actually he works closely with the kothar. Hence, try and understand that this directly affects him, his family and business. And hence without his permission I cannot reveal anything. Also, I am pretty sure he will not agree on revealing his identity as that would create a lot of problems for him and his family...

aqs
Posts: 848
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:42 am

Re: I Admit Muta is HARAM!12er exposes muta and so do zaydis

#21

Unread post by aqs » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:33 am

Aarif wrote:
presume your cousin is in Mumbai, can you confirm if he had a travel agency in Punjab Mahal building on Raudat Tahera street which is now closed, the said agency has one branch in khoka bazaar also which is still running.
Aqs,

My cousin does have an office somewhere in proper Mumbai. I cannot reveal anything more than this. I am out of India for quite a few years now and this information about Mutah was given to me by my cousin some 6-7 years back. That is when he had told me about all this. Actually he works closely with the kothar. Hence, try and understand that this directly affects him, his family and business. And hence without his permission I cannot reveal anything. Also, I am pretty sure he will not agree on revealing his identity as that would create a lot of problems for him and his family...
Aarif,

This is the main problem, i sincierly want these guys to be nailed but i understand your cousin's predicament also. Now i dont have anything but your word on this, tell me how should i take it up with other like minded people, definitely it will be termed as a rumor without any basis but to malign kothar.

i asked you about that travel agency because i knew those are the people who made lot of money in organizing trips of Kasre aali, but went into some bad patch after someone else got the contact.

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: I Admit Muta is HARAM!12er exposes muta and so do zaydis

#22

Unread post by Aarif » Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:59 am

Now i dont have anything but your word on this, tell me how should i take it up with other like minded people, definitely it will be termed as a rumor without any basis but to malign kothar.
Br. Aqs,
I agree with you on this one. Unless people come forward and expose the culprits nothing can be done. In this case I do not have control over my cousin. It is his life and he has made his choice. However, I am sure that there would be other people in Kothar and outside kothar who would be aware of this. And if you will ask around diplomatically you will be able to find some information. If you know anybody who works with kothar on karbala, misar etc. trips that person will definitely know about this. I am sorry, I wish I could have been of more help to you. Also, I appreciate your genuine concern to expose the culprits...