Tunisia,Egypt: Is the Arab World Moving Towards Independence

[anajmi]

Here's his entire post:

So instead of presenting new ideas, you are simply parroting what Average Moron stated years ago? I was looking forward to discussing new ideas and not rehash the same tired rhetoric, and that too from another moron.

[Fatwa Banker]

Humsafar,

The one thing that Israel wants less than giving Palestinians their own state, is having the Palestinians be absorbed by / be a part of Israel , as it would cease to be a Jewish state. It would be most interesting if Palestinians were to proclaim that they are giving up their demand / rights to their own land and wish to settle within Israel with a full right of return and no land swap. The onus would be on Israel creating a diplomatic nightmare in defending their position of being a democracy without affording the Palestinians full rights. More importantly Israel's reaction to this request would be indefensible as the entire argumet would be reversed putting them in a position of having to justify why they don't want Palestinians on their land. It would become Israel's priority (which it is not now) to come to an agreement on land swaps and hasten the process of a two state solution.

Just my opinion of course.....

[Humsafar]

FB, There are thousands of Arab/Palestinian Israeli citizens who technically enjoy full rights but in reality are treated as second-class citizens. And the Jewish State is not losing any sleep over not treating them well. So long as Israel is characterised as a Jewish state, all non-Jews will always get the short end of the stick. A situation not dissimilar to the status of non-Muslims in an Islamic state. Do you think Israel which now violates every international law in the book and does not care a goyim's ass about what the world thinks, will feel the diplomatic pressure about not being a proper democracy?? I doubt very much. But all this is speculation. Your or my opinion doesn't matter. What matters is what the Palestinians want. They want a country of their own. In this regard, when you say you support the Palestinian cause what exactly do you mean?

[Fatwa Banker]

A two state solution with repatriation.

[Humsafar]

Hmmm... then why the fudge are you behaving like an Israeli/American shill?

[Fatwa Banker]

That is your opinion so it doesn't matter. You have read into my posts what you want my argument to be rather than what it is.

[anajmi]

fa_t has a point. For eg. it doesn't matter how many times I say that I am against killing of innocents and against muslim on muslim violence and against dictators including the libyan dictator, fart only reads in my post what he wants me to say rather than what I am actually saying.

Unfortnately for fa_t, he makes it easy for the rest of us to read what we want to in his posts. He likes to play smart by pretending to be dumb when what he actually is, is dumb and pretending to be smart. And then he got some sense knocked into his thick head during the course of this thread.

[Humsafar]

Come on FB, try to be a little honest here. Anybody who is following this thread closely enough would form the same opinion as I have. Either we all have misunderstood you completely, or are we to believe that when you speak of Israel in glowing terms as the regional superpower you are in fact supporting the Palestinian cause? Or when you ridicule our condemnation of Israeli brutality as emotional, tired rhetoric you are actually supporting the Palestinian cause? Or when you dismiss UN resolutions against Israel as coming from a corrupt, impotent body you are of course supporting the Palestinian cause? Or when you refuse to criticise Isareli/American policy even once in this whole discussion you are actually supporting the Palestinian cause? I could go on, but I guess you get the idea. I really don't know what you take us for but please don't take us for fools.

[Fatwa Banker]

Humsafar,

when you speak of Israel in glowing terms as the regional superpower

Israel is a regional superpower, I would argue that it is a global super power.

when you ridicule our condemnation of Israeli brutality as emotional

I have not addressed the brutality, but yes the entire argument is presented in emotional terms.

Or when you dismiss UN resolutions against Israel as coming from a corrupt, impotent body

The UN is a corrupt impotent body, even you have admitted to that

when you refuse to criticise Isareli/American policy even once in this whole discussion you are actually supporting the Palestinian cause?

The criticism is rampant on this board and sometimes deservedly as it relates to the Palestinian issue. I don't see any value in me joining in.

Now if you will please review our entire interchange in light of the above, emotions aside, you will find that your accusation is inaccurate.

No, I dont take you to be a fool, but your Jaahil cohort is fair game....

[Humsafar]

FB, I see no point in continuing this conversation as we both support the Palestinian cause. But one last thing, I'm curious to know how have you been supporting/arguing for the Palestinian cause in this entire discussion?

[Fatwa Banker]

I didn't realize the support was ever in question, I was attempting to dicuss the process . I agree though, no sense in continuing.

[anajmi]

The criticism is rampant on this board and sometimes deservedly as it relates to the Palestinian issue. I don't see any value in me joining in.

And at the same time, fa_t insists that people on this board join him in criticising those that he thinks should be criticised. Just his own criticism and that of other fa_ts is not enough.

fa_t is an Israeli apologist. He supports the Palestinian cause but blames the Palestinians for their current situation.
fa_t is also an American apologist. He is against the Iraq war, but blames the Iraqis for their current situation.

He cannot blame the rich and the powerful for the situation of those that made them rich and powerful. You need a working class to be rich and powerful. If everyone is rich and powerful, then no one is. Israel needs the Palestinian holocaust to be considered a super power. America needs Iraq to demonstrate its fire power. A classic capitalist thought process.

[ghulam muhammed]

Israelophobia in America—Israelophilia Amongst Arab Tyrants

The United States Vetoes a Palestinian Draft Resolution calling Israeli Settlements “Illegal” in the U.N. Security Council.
The Vote was 14 – 1. This is Obama’s first veto, a veto that gives Israel the impunity to further steal Palestinian land for its terroristic settlers.

This is the 45th Veto cast by the U.S. to protect Israel against world condemnation of Israel for its genocidal occupation, theft, and annexation of Palestinian land. The entire world, except the U.S. and Israel, believe in and support Palestinian self determination and an independent, free, and democratic Palestinian State.

Israel has America by its throat, pocket book, military industrial complex, and its gonads.

JEWISH POWER through the wealthiest people on earth, through ownership of the most powerful positions in government (the White House, Congress, State, Defense and Commerce Departments, the World Bank, the Federal Reserve, Wall Street, Hollywood, Academia, and the most important institution of all—THE JEWISH MEDIA that it uses as a ramming rod against any who dare criticize Israel. Western Governments prior to making any decision must ask themselves: WHAT WILL ISRAEL THINK OF THIS?

“I know what America is. America is a thing you can move very easily, move it in the right direction. They won’t get in their way.”
–Benjamin Netanyahu, Prime Minister of Israel, Speaking as Citizen in 2001; –Washington Post, July 16, 2010 (1)

http://mycatbirdseat.com/2011/02/khodr- ... b-tyrants/

[Fatwa Banker]

A classic capitalist thought process..

Which created the job that you migrated here with your family for, you ungrateful hypocrite.

[anajmi]

fa_t's definition of a hypocrite - An honest worker in a capitalist system who doesn't support Israeli / American aggression!!

This is the kind of capitalism that gives it a bad name. Deservedly, I might add. My conclusion is that capitalism is not the problem. Capitalists like fa_t are the problem.

[anajmi]

By the way, according to my take on Socrates, jobs are created not by capitalism or communism or socialism. Jobs are created by the needs of people. And they do not change in any system. The ratio of those that are satisfied by a system and those that are not remains pretty much same on a large enough time line.

For eg. my working in a capitalist system has made me happy but has completely pissed off fart.

[Fatwa Banker]

Jobs are created by the needs of people.

You should move to Somalia then dumb ass

[anajmi]

I can take care of the needs of the people in Somalia from right here. And at the same time I can satisfy my need of whacking you once in a while.

[anajmi]

This is again as per my take on Socrates. If I were to move to Somalia, I would become a burden on their economy. That is because, the skills that I have are not needed in Somalia. I would be out of work and the nation of Somalia would have to support me. In America, my skills are highly valued and needed. I get paid well for my work. And with the money that I earn, I can support some needs of Somalia.

So you see fa_t. You are the dumb ass over here for not understanding simple economics.

[anajmi]

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/afr ... 09178.html

Libya's Leader Blames al-Qaida for Protests

Wonder where he got that idea from?

[ghulam muhammed]

A Saudi Prince’s Plea for Reform

The lesson to be learned from the Tunisian, Egyptian and other upheavals — which, it is important to note, were not animated by anti-American fervor or by extremist Islamic zeal — is that Arab governments can no longer afford to take their populations for granted, or to assume that they will remain static and subdued. Nor can the soothing instruments of yesteryear, which were meant to appease, serve any longer as substitutes for meaningful reform. The winds of change are blowing across our region with force, and it would be folly to suppose that they will soon dissipate.


For any reform to be effective, however, it has to be the result of meaningful interaction and dialogue among the different components of a society, most particularly between the rulers and the ruled. It also has to encompass the younger generation, which in this technologically advanced age has become increasingly intertwined with its counterparts in other parts of the world.

Exclusion can no longer work. This admonishment was most forcefully and unabashedly expressed by no less a personage of an earlier generation than my father, Prince Talal bin Abdulaziz, in a recent television interview.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/opini ... emc=tha212

[Fatwa Banker]

For any reform to be effective, however, it has to be the result of meaningful interaction and dialogue among the different components of a society, most particularly between the rulers and the ruled.

First and foremost, they don't want to be "ruled" by "rulers" or ruled by anyone for that matter, especially ones they didn't choose to begin with ! This ruler has stolen the wealth of the country and needs to give it back and dissappear. He just doesn't get it.

Earth to Al Wally, this is what they want to hear :

For any reform to be effective, however, it has to be the result of meaningful transfer of assets among the different components of a society, most particularly between the rulers and the ruled. Then the rulers need to go away and let the ruled pick their own government.

[ghulam muhammed]

Middle East revolutions and the fate of the petrodollar

Thus, the petrodollar was born and life was good. As long as the US leveraged control over the Middle East’s glistening black crude, and the worldwide supply and distribution networks, the Treasury could print dollars without needing to back it up with gold reserves, jobs, trade exchanges, or other material indices of economic health. The petrodollar meant that oil had to be bought and sold in US currency, forcing countries to buy dollars in order to purchase the energy demanded for agriculture, transportation, industry — really, every facet of modern life. As countries worldwide were obliged to purchase dollars for oil, the dollar itself became the US’s biggest export. The Almighty Dollar indeed!

What monopoly over oil gave the US was a credit-card without any limits. The US could simply print the dollars for OPEC oil, while other countries had to trade their goods, services, and resources to the US for the dollars to buy crude. This enabled the US to run on deficit spending, engaging in ballooning consumption under a debt that was essentially shunted on to other countries in Empire Inc. As Wall Street speculated on their control of the world currency flow, the arms manufacturers reaped benefits by the political instability fostered in the Middle East. As Henry Kissinger noted with typical Lord Voldemort flair, “who controls the energy can control whole continents; who controls money can control the world.”

“[D]espite the ongoing subterfuge,” he writes, “the US and the UK establishment are far more concerned about Iran’s upcoming internet-based oil exchange, or “oil bourse,” which over time could undermine the petrodollar system, and thus the global supremacy of the US dollar. The decline of the petrodollar means the shift to a multipolar world, the crumbling of American hegemony.

Read full article :-

http://www.crescent-online.net/special- ... ollar.html

[ghulam muhammed]

Saudis panic amid unrest in the Islamic East .

Nowhere is there more concern — and panic — about the rapidly escalating protests in North Africa and the Islamic East than inside the marbled, air-conditioned palaces of Saudi Arabia. The Saudis know their rule is illegitimate. It was the British that installed them in power by carving out a kingdom from the ruins of the Ottoman Khilafah to serve British colonial interests. Now the Americans are protecting them because the Saudis continue to pump oil to satiate the Americans’ addiction to black gold. But America has lost its clout on the global stage, thanks to its wars of aggression in Afghanistan and Iraq. The US and its Arabian lickspittle can no longer dictate to the world.

The Saudis’ real concern is not only America’s loss of clout; their worry is that Uncle Sam ditched a long-time trusted ally Hosni Mubarak so casually. The Saudis may be cowards but they are not fools. They understand what is afoot. If the Americans can discard Mubarak whose regime was a major bulwark against the rising tide of Islam and loyal ally of the Zionist State of Israel, what chance do the pleasure-loving Saudis have if protests erupt in the kingdom? The Americans might abandon them just as quickly, oil or no oil. Further, the Saudis now feel alone in standing against the emerging power of Islam.

http://www.crescent-online.net/columns/ ... -east.html

[ghulam muhammed]

Report: Mubarak's sons received millions of dollars for backing Israeli gas sales

Gamal and Alaa Mubarak, the two sons of former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, received hundreds of millions of dollars in "commissions" from the sale of Egyptian natural gas to Israel, the Kuwaiti newspaper Al-Jarida reported yesterday.

Gamal initially demanded a 10% commission but eventually agreed to half of that, while his elder brother and businessman Hussein Salem settled for 2.5% each from the $2.5-billion deal signed in May 2005. Salem, considered to be very close to the Mubarak family, is the the largest shareholder in Eastern Mediterranean Gas, the Egyptian firm that supplied the gas to Israel. Mubarak's sons allegedly backed the controversial gas exports to Israel in return for the payments.

Egypt supplies about 40% of Israel's natural gas, which is used to produce about 20% of Israel's electricity.

http://english.themarker.com/report-mub ... s-1.347560

[ghulam muhammed]

In Pictures: Killings in Cairo

August 15, 2013 "Information Clearing House - "Al Jazeera" - Nasr City, Egypt - Hundreds of people died as security forces launched a crackdown on supporters of deposed Egyptian president Mohamed Morsi.

The assault, which began on Wednesday morning, led to bloody clashes around Rabaa al-Adawiya, a centre for demonstrations in the Egyptian capital, Cairo.

Injured protesters tried to treat their wounds at make-shift clinics set up by demonstrators. The government has declared a state of emergency and the violence is expected to continue.

View Pictures :-

http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e35858.htm

[ghulam muhammed]

Egypt: a tissue of lies

It’s dangerous to be a friend of the United States in the Middle East. A fact the US government knows better than any political player in the Arab world, starting with America’s best friends! The strategy is simple: cover your tracks, forget history, don’t let cold hard facts get in the way. For the last sixty years, the United States has supported the Egyptian army and the successive dictatorial regimes (Nasser, despite tense relations, then Sadat and Mubarak) that protected their geostrategic interests, promoted “regional security” and, of course, defended Israel. Nothing has changed: the American administration was squarely behind the June 30 military coup, which was planned well in advance by the army high command and its civilian allies, including Mohammed el-Baradei. As early as 2008-2009 el-Baradei, one of the US’s key Egyptian strategic assets, had been advancing by stealth. In my Islam and the Arab Awakening I published comments by American officials about him and his involvement in the April 6 Movement (1). On the day of the coup, the US refused to describe it as such in order not to interrupt support for its military allies and the new political power structure. Secretary of State John Kerry could only confirm what serious analysts already knew when he stated a few days later that on June 30 the army had “restored the democratic process.” There can be no doubt that the US government fully supports the Egyptian armed forces. Its regional allies quickly swung into action: billions of dollars poured in from Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Kuwait.

Covering tracks is the strategy of choice. Domestically, the propaganda machine is in high gear: the United States had been meddling in Egyptian affairs by supporting the Muslim Brotherhood (MB). The new political authorities (the interim president, prime minister and, of course, el-Baradei) are playing their parts to perfection: they claim to be “disappointed” by the lack of American backing. In the Washington Post and not in an Egyptian newspaper, General al-Sisi even—astonishingly—accused the US government of abandoning him: “You turned your back on the Egyptians, and they won’t forget that.” (2)Washington Post, August 3, 2013 It was a clever gambit, one that managed to fool a section of the Egyptian population. That would make the armed forces and the civilian transitional government out to be courageous and independent patriots, while American agents and foreign powers had all along propped up the MB. The Americans know well the power of such propaganda, and the symbolic gestures needed to make it convincing. But it was a lie from start to finish.

The facts and figures produced are a bigger lie: 30 million Egyptians took to the streets, they tell us, and 16 million signed an anti-government petition. Where do these figure, intoned like a mantra in the media, come from? By comparing images from the pilgrimage to Mecca with those produced on June 30 (by the Egyptian military, which transmitted them to press agencies around the world: Google claims not to have broadcast them), experts estimate the total turnout at no more than four or five million. In fact, the figure of 30 million is preposterous, as are the 16 million signatures, especially for anyone familiar with social conditions on the ground in Egypt. New propaganda; new lies.

In the distorting mirror of such propaganda, it is essential to present today’s demonstrators only as followers of deposed president Mohammed Morsi, or as members of the Muslim Brotherhood. But the Egyptian population is not made up entirely of imbeciles, “democrats” who support the armed forces or “Islamists” on the side of the Brotherhood. This lie, stuffed down our throats by Egyptian and Western media outlets, is designed to obscure the ideological dimension of demonstrations opposing the coup d’État. In all the cities and towns of Egypt, the people in the streets are by no means all members or supporters of the MB. They include women and men, secularists alongside Islamists, Copts as well as Muslims, youth and older people who reject manipulation and a return to military rule in the guise of “democracy.” Many young people were and remain critical of Mr. Morsi and of the MB and their policies, but there is nothing naïve about their understanding of what is at stake politically. In fact, the ongoing mass protests appear to be the unexpected spanner in the strategic works of the Egyptian army, the interim government and their American allies. A mass outpouring of non-violent citizens against the “democratic” military coup carried out in the name of the selfsame people has left many faces spattered with egg.

But wait! Add another lie, and claim that the people in the street are not only members of the MB, but potential extremists working hand-in-glove with the “terrorists” of Hamas (a propaganda trick that never fails in the West) who would not hesitate to use violence. Foreign Minister, Nabil Fahmy, lent public credence to the fabrication when he claimed that Amnesty International had noted that the demonstrators were armed or were concealing weapons. Amnesty immediately published a communiqué sharply denying his allegations (4). The new Egyptian authorities are now attempting to demonize the non-violent demonstrators in the streets; in the wake of the July 8 massacre, when the police fired on the unarmed crowd in the name of legitimate defense. A new media campaign is now being deployed: if the government wishes to clear the streets of demonstrators—as it claims—the demonstrators must be portrayed as dangerous and violent, as “terrorists.” Western media are unfortunately quite happy to play along with the Egyptian military and civilian authorities. Anything can happen in the coming days. Violent actions by tiny, unidentified “extremist” or “terrorist” groups (the Egyptian secret services are past masters at concocting perfectly synchronized “clashes” or “attacks”) may be used to justify massive police and military action (while trying to surround and isolate the protesters) . The next big lie: the armed forces are simply defending themselves.

As I continue to emphasize, the Islamists cannot be exempt from criticism. The situation in the Middle East is grave; the future is murky. It is as if the project to bring democracy to the region proclaimed by US President George W. Bush in 2003 provided, in fact, an immense immense template for regional destabilization modeled on the “liberation” of Iraq. Political systems and regimes would be undermined, oil and mineral resources secured, and the State of Israel, silently and to the accompaniment of yet another episode in the “peace process,” would continue its deliberate strategy of colonization. Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Yemen (and even Sudan) are caught up in the maelstrom; the Gulf States are operating on a short leash.

Hopes were high that Barack Obama would be a president of renewal and openness. He has been nothing of the kind. What a pathetic record! As Noam Chomsky has stated, Mr. Obama has done even less than his predecessors to resolve the Israel-Palestine conflict. In fact, he has accomplished nothing. His image was that of the appealing African-American president, the gifted orator who has proved just as cynical as his immediate precursor. Meanwhile, the lies go on; the citizens of Egypt, like the Iraqis, the Syrians and the Palestinians, should bear in mind that the US government speaks the truth when it affirms that it loves nothing quite so much as democracy.

In the face of this tissue of lies, the non-violent demonstrators—women and men, secularists and Islamists, Copts and Muslims, agnostics and atheists—are the true expression of the Egyptian awakening. They must stand upright, unarmed; reject lies, propaganda and manipulation; they must become masters of their destiny.

************************************** (1) Relations between El-Baradei and the United States had not always been cordial. The Egyptian diplomat had sharply criticized American reluctance to call for reform of the regime as a “farce.” But closer analysis points to relations of an entirely different kind. Those between Barack Obama and Mohamed El-Baradei are excellent; the latter has not stinted in his praise for George W. Bush’s successor. In the run-up to Mubarak’s replacement, the Obama administration calculated that El-Baradei’s notoriously poor relations with the Bush administration and with the United States might well prove to be an advantage. As former State Department advisor Philip D. Zelikow noted: “Ironically, the fact that El-Baradei cross swords with the Bush administration on Iraq and Iran helps him in Egypt, and God forbid we should do anything to make it seem like we like him.” A near-identical analysis appeared in Foreign Affairs magazine one year before the uprisings. Pointing out that being seen as friendly with the Americans or being supported by them was a negative factor for any political figure in search of credibility with Egyptians, Steven A. Cook, the article’s author, added: “If ElBaradei actually has a reasonable chance of fostering political reform in Egypt, then U.S. policymakers would best serve his cause by not acting strongly. Somewhat paradoxically, ElBaradei’s chilly relationship with the United States as IAEA chief only advances U.S. interests now.” Islam and the Arab Awakening, Oxford 2012, p. 30

http://www.tariqramadan.com/spip.php?ar ... 42&lang=en

[ghulam muhammed]

Lobby firms bolster Egyptian military

Earlier this month The Hill, a political newspaper based in Washington DC, announced that Egypt's interim authorities had hired a lobby firm to bolster its image after the US decided to withhold selected military aid in response to the ongoing crackdown against Egyptian protesters following the 3 July military coup that ousted Egypt's first freely elected president, Mohamed Morsi.

A few days later MEMO uncovered the news that the leadership of this firm, the Glover Park Group (GPG), includes Arik Ben-Zvi an Israeli citizen who served in the Israeli army as well as two executives previously employed by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the most powerful arm of the Israel Lobby in the US.

GPG is considered to be one of the most influential lobby groups in Washington when it comes to representing foreign governments, and its founders have close ties with former President Bill Clinton and former Vice President Al Gore

Based on MEMO's original article, Al-Jazeera reported that Egypt's contract with GPG is worth $250,000 a month, which makes it one of the most lucrative contracts ever filed with the US Department of Justice.

Egypt's military regime also has another Washington-based lobby group working on its behalf. Since 3 July, AIPAC has been pressuring the US to support the military coup. According to an article in Foreign Policy magazine in mid-August, AIPAC surprised Washington when the lobby publicly mobilised strong opposition to an amendment sponsored by Senator Rand Paul in July that proposed redirecting $1.5 billion in Egyptian aid to rebuilding US infrastructure instead. The amendment was overwhelmingly defeated. According to congressional aides from both the Democratic and Republican parties, AIPAC has also been "operating behind the scenes in private meetings with lawmakers to keep alive Cairo's funding."

When AIPAC failed to achieve this and the US decided to start limiting military aid to Egypt, the military regime in Cairo immediately turned to GPG for additional help.

Thus as Zaid Jilani recently observed on Al-Jazeera America, while the military regime "has finally hired its own registered Beltway lobbyists, they join a chorus of other powerful pro-coup lobbyists for domestic pro-Israel and military-contract interests." But as long as Egypt's brutal crackdown continues, the military regime will need all the help it can get.

- See more at: http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/a ... litary#top