When they started calling them self ....

[labbaikyaHussain]

In the name of GOD almighty...



I would like to know when did DAI and his KIDS started calling them self sultaan and shazada and shezadi?

DO we use to call IMAM son shehzada?

do we have any history about it?

[Safiuddin]

They self-titled when they decided to segregate themselves from other Bohras and pretend that they were
some kind of royalty. The purpose is to give the impression that they are somehow better, more pious, and of
course, untouchable. (Unless you happen to be an important dignitary or other political ally)- then you can touch them and even kiss
their cheeks.

Why do you think they self-styled themselves? In order to maintain an iron grip, they needed
some type of validity to proclaim themselves rulers of the Bohris. How ironic that Burhanuddin
and his family are descended from Hindu merchant converts.

[labbaikyaHussain]

Well honestly I dont think any islamic pious personality will ever liked to be called sultan and shezada shezadi....this is plain hypocrisy and trying to make them self superior over the mass.

[ghulam muhammed]

If you have a stream of followers then you must be a leader but if you need to have a batalion of slaves then you must be a sultan due to which your siblings automatically become shehzadas and shehzadis, the equation is quite simple. This is what tyrants like firaun and namrud had. By the way if you have missed the scene of slaves (abdes) transporting their master in a palkhi then you can watch the film "300" where you can see xerxes, the king carried by hordes of slaves, this is the exact replica of the present day slaves (abdes).

[S. Insaf]

In reality all human beings are born out of a dry drop. A mortal man becomes King because of his kingdom. Sultan because of his sultanate. A King or a Sultan in order to project himself superior himself over the others lives a luxurious life in majestic palaces and makes continuous show of his wealth and strength.

The wealth and prosperity came in the community during first and second world wars around 1918 and 1942 due to hard work and fair dealings in trade by Dawoodi Bohras. It was a period dominated by materialistic and worldly ambitions of late 51st Dai. Immediately after he became Dai in 1915 he started consolidated his financial empire. The Bombay High Court had rejected his claims of ownership of Bohra community’s properties and he being accountable to non in 1917. But he had decided to impose his absolute control over the wealth and properties of the community in order to be their master-in-command. He did it. Soon he started living in Badri Mahal and Saifee Mahal. As Amir Moaviyah converted ‘Khilafat in to ‘Badshahat’ or ‘Monarchy’ Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb soon converted ‘Dawat’ in to his Sultanate and started calling himself as Sultan and his family members as Shahzada/Shahzadi.

Hazrat Ali ibne-abi Talib (A.S.) had two slaves Qamber and Seed. They related after the death of Hazrat Ali:
1) Hazrat very seldom gave them chance to serve him.
2) He used to do his own work for himself, used to wash his own clothing, used even to patch them whenever needed, he used to draw water from well for his daily use.
3) Hazrat would give them good food and decent dresses and would himself eat and dress like poor man.
4) Obaidullah-ibne-Abbas was one of Hazrat ali’s Amils (governors) who ill-treated some people under him. They complained to Hazrat. He immediately warned Ibne-Abbas, “You should not ill-treat your subject. The common people should be given their due respect. You should always treat them with respect. You are representing me and your treatment is considered as that of mine.
5) Hazrat Ali was so down to earth that Hazrat Mohammad (S.A.) called him “Abu Turab.

Dawoodi Bohra Dais, before 51st Dai, as true Shias of Hazrat Ali, lived a very simple life earning their own livelihood without exploiting the common Bohras for money or service to Dai. For example even 50th Dawoodi Bohra Dai, Syedna Abdullah Badruddin Saheb initiated reforms to improve the functioning of the Dawat and local Jamats. The functioning of Dawat and local administration was corrupted since 47th Dai Syedna Yusuf Najmuddin Saheb’s time as he had succeeded on the high office without “Nass-e-Jali” précised pronouncement of Nass by 46th Dai. He further curtailed the powers of Amils who had become arrogant and dominant. He also stopped the liberal distribution of titles of Shaikh and awarded them strictly on the basis of knowledge and learning. He did his best to improve the teaching standard at the Surat daras. But his term lasted only for seven years.
Earlier Bohra Dais were known as “Mullaji” or “Bade Mullaji” or “Bawasaheb” or Molana. Titles like His Holiness, Bohra Sultan, Naib-Imam, Dai-ul-Mutlaq, Aqa Maula were not used. There is no trace in the Bohra history of court records, agreements signed and religious text available, of even Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb using these titles for himself up to 1932.

[profastian]

In reality all human beings are born out of a dry drop. A mortal man becomes King because of his kingdom. Sultan because of his sultanate. A King or a Sultan in order to project himself superior himself over the others lives a luxurious life in majestic palaces and makes continuous show of his wealth and strength.

The wealth and prosperity came in the community during first and second world wars around 1918 and 1942 due to hard work and fair dealings in trade by Dawoodi Bohras. It was a period dominated by materialistic and worldly ambitions of late 51st Dai. Immediately after he became Dai in 1915 he started consolidated his financial empire. The Bombay High Court had rejected his claims of ownership of Bohra community’s properties and he being accountable to non in 1917. But he had decided to impose his absolute control over the wealth and properties of the community in order to be their master-in-command. He did it. Soon he started living in Badri Mahal and Saifee Mahal. As Amir Moaviyah converted ‘Khilafat in to ‘Badshahat’ or ‘Monarchy’ Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb soon converted ‘Dawat’ in to his Sultanate and started calling himself as Sultan and his family members as Shahzada/Shahzadi.

Hazrat Ali ibne-abi Talib (A.S.) had two slaves Qamber and Seed. They related after the death of Hazrat Ali:
1) Hazrat very seldom gave them chance to serve him.
2) He used to do his own work for himself, used to wash his own clothing, used even to patch them whenever needed, he used to draw water from well for his daily use.
3) Hazrat would give them good food and decent dresses and would himself eat and dress like poor man.
4) Obaidullah-ibne-Abbas was one of Hazrat ali’s Amils (governors) who ill-treated some people under him. They complained to Hazrat. He immediately warned Ibne-Abbas, “You should not ill-treat your subject. The common people should be given their due respect. You should always treat them with respect. You are representing me and your treatment is considered as that of mine.
5) Hazrat Ali was so down to earth that Hazrat Mohammad (S.A.) called him “Abu Turab.

Dawoodi Bohra Dais, before 51st Dai, as true Shias of Hazrat Ali, lived a very simple life earning their own livelihood without exploiting the common Bohras for money or service to Dai. For example even 50th Dawoodi Bohra Dai, Syedna Abdullah Badruddin Saheb initiated reforms to improve the functioning of the Dawat and local Jamats. The functioning of Dawat and local administration was corrupted since 47th Dai Syedna Yusuf Najmuddin Saheb’s time as he had succeeded on the high office without “Nass-e-Jali” précised pronouncement of Nass by 46th Dai. He further curtailed the powers of Amils who had become arrogant and dominant. He also stopped the liberal distribution of titles of Shaikh and awarded them strictly on the basis of knowledge and learning. He did his best to improve the teaching standard at the Surat daras. But his term lasted only for seven years.
Earlier Bohra Dais were known as “Mullaji” or “Bade Mullaji” or “Bawasaheb” or Molana. Titles like His Holiness, Bohra Sultan, Naib-Imam, Dai-ul-Mutlaq, Aqa Maula were not used. There is no trace in the Bohra history of court records, agreements signed and religious text available, of even Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb using these titles for himself up to 1932.

So according to you, Syedna Taher Saifuddin is a DAI, but a fraud. So why the heck are you so bent upon calling him a DAI. Just call him and his Dawat a fraud and be done with it. Why all this charade of accepting as DAI and wanting only jamaat reforms?

[aqs]

The functioning of Dawat and local administration was corrupted since 47th Dai Syedna Yusuf Najmuddin Saheb’s time as he had succeeded on the high office without “Nass-e-Jali” précised pronouncement of Nass by 46th Dai.

Insaaf Saheb,

I have asked this before also and once again i ask.

DO YOU BELIEVE SYEDNA MOHAMMED BURHANUDDIN (TUS) TO BE DAIL MUTLAQ OR NOT

i have written it in caps so that you dont miss it, once again.

[S. Insaf]

I have clarified this before that we reformist believe in Fatemi Dawat, Dai-ul-Mutlaq and follow Islam and Dawoodi Bohra Faith. There is no confusion. At the same time since accountability is so important in Islam we want our Dai to submit account for every pie that he collects and spends as Dais upto 50th Dai had done and stop un-Islamic practices of Misaq for Dai, Raza and barbaric Baraat. We are not against the official position of Dai-ul-Mutlaq or religion. We are against misuse of a fine religion by the administration of Dai-ul-Mutlaq.

[aqs]

I have clarified this before that we reformist believe in Fatemi Dawat, Dai-ul-Mutlaq and follow Islam and Dawoodi Bohra Faith. There is no confusion. At the same time since accountability is so important in Islam we want our Dai to submit account for every pie that he collects and spends as Dais upto 50th Dai had done and stop un-Islamic practices of Misaq for Dai, Raza and barbaric Baraat. We are not against the official position of Dai-ul-Mutlaq or religion. We are against misuse of a fine religion by the administration of Dai-ul-Mutlaq.

Again you are trying to wiggle out of it, a simple yes or no is enough. Do YOU believe or not that Syedna(tus) is the dail Mutlaq.

I dont want a paragraph of what's official position of Progs, that i already know. What i want to know is do YOU believe in the official position of your brethren or you have a different take on the issue.

[SBM]

Again you are trying to wiggle out of it, a simple yes or no is enough

Br. Aqs
Can you and your chorts answer a simple yes or no regarding SAJDA to DAI instead of giving all these dissertation about different Sajdas

[stranger]

Br. Aqs
Can you and your chorts answer a simple yes or no regarding SAJDA to DAI instead of giving all these dissertation about different Sajdas

No, we Don't.
Now , can you and your chorts would like to answer the question which Aqs have raised above ?

[SBM]

can you and your chorts would like to answer the question which Aqs have raised above ?

Aqs knows my position and that question was not directed to me.
I do respect your honesty regarding a simple NO for Sajda to Dai.

[aqs]

Again you are trying to wiggle out of it, a simple yes or no is enough

Br. Aqs
Can you and your chorts answer a simple yes or no regarding SAJDA to DAI instead of giving all these dissertation about different Sajdas

Br. Oma,

People from both side are already banging their heads against each other to prove their point, and as you very well know that i am not at all comfortable in talking about Dawat books so i will give a miss to this topic.

but i very well remember that i had cleared my stand on the topic that its just a sajda of respect which Syedna Qadi Noman has mentioned in his books.

[progticide]

Again you are trying to wiggle out of it, a simple yes or no is enough

Br. Aqs
Can you and your chorts answer a simple yes or no regarding SAJDA to DAI instead of giving all these dissertation about different Sajdas

People, why are you so troubled and distressed about prostrating before the Dai. Remember, act of prostration did not cause the banishment of Iblis, it was the act of non-prostration.

Another example for you, I know this too would not suffice but for those who may want to rethink their stand, then read below;
When the mother of Yahya (John) was expectant she said to Maryam, who was expectant also, "I can feel that which is in my womb to be bowing down to that which is in your womb. This is from stories of prophets, try simple Google search and check for references to this event, I am sure you would find many. Now remember, both Isa Nabi and Yahya Nabi were prophets but yet one is prostrating another possibly due to the others higher position.

Even after this there will be some to deny the Sajda to Dai, let them continue.

[Safiuddin]

Oh how silly of me to miss this. Omabharti what is wrong with you? Can't you see that progticide has illuminated
us with a centuries old biblical reference to two pregnant women? It's clear to anyone that Umm Yahya knew that her fetus was prostrating itself to the other one.
Fetuses in the womb don't turn head down naturally - it only happens when they are doing sajda to someone of greater rutba. Only fools believe the fetus turns head down in preparation for birth. The Bohri fetus has a special 6th sense - it can smell the presence of self-proclaimed sultans, zaadas and zaadis.

Now go to Saifee Mahal forthwith - and bow down in sajda to the thieves that live behind the gates.
And don't ask anymore foolish questions.