Kitaab ul Himma on Sajada

[BlackSaya]

Why did Allah command sajda to Adam? If sajda was exclusive to Allah, why command it for someone else? And that too a human.
And on a side note, why does anajmi need to pose as BlackSaya...

The same reason you pose as stranger!

[Smart]

SAJDA
continued
I agree with the quote by George Bernard Shaw.
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

Enjoy my time with you

Thank you for openly declaring that you are a pig and that you enjoyed the wrestle!

[porus]

stranger,

There are a few other sajdas that I have invented.
1) Sajda-e-phokatiya. Whenever I want free food, I do sajda to the donor. The intention is free food and not worship.
2) Sajda-e-darpokiya. Whenever there is a bugger in your house, you can do sajda to him. This sajda is not the sajda of worship but of fear.
3) Sajda-e-Biwiya. Whenever the wife is angry, this sajda can be done in front of her to calm her down. seeker is familiar with this one.
4) Sajde-e-sasuya. Whenever the mother-in-law is angry.

And there are many more. Just make sure, you take the right niyat. God forbid if you perform Sajda-e-darpokiya in front of your wife!!!

anajmi, that was simply brilliant!

I haven't laughed so much for a while . It demonstrates great creativity. With this post of yours, I forgive you all your slights against me, real or imagined. Thanks!

[anajmi]

porus,

Thank you very much. We can start with a clean slate and, inshallah, try to keep it clean.

[stranger]

stranger,

There are a few other sajdas that I have invented.
1) Sajda-e-phokatiya. Whenever I want free food, I do sajda to the donor. The intention is free food and not worship.
2) Sajda-e-darpokiya. Whenever there is a bugger in your house, you can do sajda to him. This sajda is not the sajda of worship but of fear.
3) Sajda-e-Biwiya. Whenever the wife is angry, this sajda can be done in front of her to calm her down. seeker is familiar with this one.
4) Sajde-e-sasuya. Whenever the mother-in-law is angry.

And there are many more. Just make sure, you take the right niyat. God forbid if you perform Sajda-e-darpokiya in front of your wife!!!

Anajmi,
I am not surprised, we can expect such inventions from you. .

However, :-

The sajda performed by the angels on the command of ALLAH almighty, before Hazrat Adam (A.S), was a Sajda-e-Tazeem and not a Sajda-e- Aboudiyat.

Therefore, prostration in a manner similar to the ritual prostration (but without the intention of worship) to show reverance to someone is not polytheism.
For example, the Prophet Yusuf's (A.S) brothers prostrated before him. At that time, 2 Prohpets Yaqub (A.S) and Yusuf (A.S) were present, but they did not forbid them to do so.

ALLAH says in Surah Yusuf in the Holy Quran :

" And he raised his parents upon the throne, and they fell down in prostration before him, and he said : ' O my father , this is the significance of my vision of old; my Lord has indeed made it to be true...' " - (12:100)

The angels performed the prostration before the prophet Adam (A.S) . So if prostration is polytheism, then the brothers of the prophet Yusuf (A.S) and the angels of Allah Were all polytheists, and only the cursed Iblees (satan) a monotheist !

[Muslim First]

So brother Stranger,

Syedna Qazi Nomans in his Kitaab ul Himma has described two innovative Sajsdas. Just like Syedna Qazi anajmi's Sajda-e-phokatiya, Sajda-e-darpokiya Sajda-e-Biwiya and Sajda-e-Sasua.

It seems Syedna Qazi anajmi is twice innovative then Syedna Qazi Nomans. Gudd for him.

Now Sajda to Adam was ordered by Allah and brothers of Usuf AS did it in different era.

Prophet Muhammad SAW was a law giving Prophet and Qur'an and his Sunna are law for us. I do not see any Aya in Qura'n permitting us to do Sajada to human being even if he claims to be Allah on earh.

I can show you many Ayas forbidding sajda to anybody but Allah. Prove me wrong.

[profastian]

So brother Stranger,

Syedna Qazi Nomans in his Kitaab ul Himma has described two innovative Sajsdas. Just like Syedna Qazi anajmi's Sajda-e-phokatiya, Sajda-e-darpokiya Sajda-e-Biwiya and Sajda-e-Sasua.

It seems Syedna Qazi anajmi is twice innovative then Syedna Qazi Nomans. Gudd for him.

Now Sajda to Adam was ordered by Allah and brothers of Usuf AS did it in different era.

Prophet Muhammad SAW was a law giving Prophet and Qur'an and his Sunna are law for us. I do not see any Aya in Qura'n permitting us to do Sajada to human being even if he claims to be Allah on earh.

I can show you many Ayas forbidding sajda to anybody but Allah. Prove me wrong.

And what about Taraweeh?
(Now you will all run away )

[anajmi]

The sajda performed by the angels on the command of ALLAH almighty, before Hazrat Adam (A.S), was a Sajda-e-Tazeem and not a Sajda-e- Aboudiyat.

Which idiot has taught you the Quran? Who told you it was Sajda-e-Tazeem? It was Sajda-e-Obedience. I have explained this before but you idol worshippers just ignore perfectly rational explanations. The angels didn't perform sajda because they respected Adam (as). Why would they respect Adam (as). What had he done at that time? Nothing!!! Infact the angels objected on Allah's creation of Adam (as) saying that he will be creating fitna on earth. Your Dai is a perfect example of that fitna. The sajda was not of respect, but simply because it was a command of Allah.

ALLAH says in Surah Yusuf in the Holy Quran :

Again, this has been explained many times before. Have you abdes understood the Quran better than the prophet (saw)? The prohet (saw) has prohibited any kind of sajda to anyone. Was he wrong? There is no evidence of Hazrat Ali doing sajda to the prophet (saw) or anyone doing Sajda to Hazrat Ali. Do you think they didn't read surah Yusuf? or Didn't Hazrat Ali respect the prophet (saw) as much as the abdes respect their idol?

[anajmi]

Infact the angels objected on Allah's creation of Adam (as) saying that he will be creating fitna on earth.

One note. The angels questioned the creation of humans and not Adam (as) in particular.

[stranger]

Your Dai is a perfect example of that fitna.

Anajmi,
I requested you earlier also to Avoid casteist remarks but you, Sons of Osama Bin Laden, just can't understand the language of love.

[stranger]

I can show you many Ayas forbidding sajda to anybody but Allah. Prove me wrong.

Bro Muslim First,
I know you are correct but again the point revolves and come back on same thing that there is difference between the two Sajda .
Neway,
I have never done sajda to anybody except Allah. .Also, None of the Bohra is doing sajda to Da'i. But since we were into discussion, I commented what was in my knowledge.

[anajmi]

stranger,

My remark was a fact. What did the angels mean when they said that humans will create fitna on earth? I believe the biggest fitna is propagation of idol worship. The angels are incapable of creating idols for woship. The Dai has elevated himself to that status by creating a sajda for himself. I have explained that the prophet Muhammad (saw) prohibited any kind of sajda to anyone. There is no evidence of Hazrat Ali doing sajda to the prophet (saw) or anyone doing sajda of any kind to Hazrat Ali. They have understood Surah Yusuf better than your Dai and their understanding did not lead them to legalizing this fictional sajda-e-tazeem!!

[stranger]

Its all fairy tale created on forum. .Our Da'i never claims himself to be Allah or even nearer to him anywhere. He told himself Slave of Imamuzaman and khidmat guzaar of Fatemi Dawat. He never ask people to prostate before him and neither of us are prostating in front of him. Certain issues reaised by reformers are true and i will not deny. .but some misconception are also preached here. which you mentioned above.

[SBM]

He never ask people to prostate before him

That may be true but he nor any of the his Khidmatguzar(S'zadas) have prohibited people doing Sajda to him. Some where on this forum they have pictures of people doing Sajda to him. Has any one from Kothar has prohibited singing Madeh " Sajda tujhe wajib hey"? just plain YES or NO will suffice.

[stranger]

He never ask people to prostate before him

That may be true but he nor any of the his Khidmatguzar(S'zadas) have prohibited people doing Sajda to him. Some where on this forum they have pictures of people doing Sajda to him. Has any one from Kothar has prohibited singing Madeh " Sajda tujhe wajib hey"? just plain YES or NO will suffice.

NO. .They Din't prohibited from singing madeh but that ( Sajda reffered) is not sajda of worship, why don't you understand AND I don't remember if i have ever seen people prostating before him.
Neway,
So you accept that He never Ask people to prostate before him. .A simple Yes/NO will do ?
Forget ab the Pics, Tell me when Last time you saw the peoples doing sajda to him ?

[anajmi]

stranger,

How many times have you done sajda of respect to your parents?

[Muslim First]

Stranger
point revolves and come back on same thing that there is difference between the two Sajda .

Show me in Qur'an or Ahadith 2 sajdas. Kitab ul Himma is man made book and in my eye as good as four Sajads of Syedana Qazi anajmi.

[SBM]

So you accept that He never Ask people to prostate before him. .A simple Yes/NO will do ?

You answered your own question by using the first 6 words. does not need any more explanation.

Forget ab the Pics

Pics do not lie

[progticide]

People, why are you so troubled and distressed about prostrating before the Dai. Remember, act of prostration did not cause the banishment of Iblis, it was the act of non-prostration.

Another example for you people, I know this too would not suffice those who are adamant like dead-wood but for those who may want to rethink their stand, then read below;

When the mother of Yahya (John) was expectant she said to Maryam, who was expectant also, "I can feel that which is in my womb to be bowing down to that which is in your womb.
This is from stories of prophets; try simple Google search and check for references to this event, I am sure you would find many. Now remember, both Isa Nabi and Yahya Nabi were prophets but yet one is prostrating before other possibly due to the others higher position.

Even after this there will be some to deny the Sajda to Dai, let them continue to do so.

[profastian]

People, why are you so troubled and distressed about prostrating before the Dai. Remember, act of prostration did not cause the banishment of Iblis, it was the act of non-prostration.

Another example for you people, I know this too would not suffice those who are adamant like dead-wood but for those who may want to rethink their stand, then read below;

When the mother of Yahya (John) was expectant she said to Maryam, who was expectant also, "I can feel that which is in my womb to be bowing down to that which is in your womb.
This is from stories of prophets; try simple Google search and check for references to this event, I am sure you would find many. Now remember, both Isa Nabi and Yahya Nabi were prophets but yet one is prostrating before other possibly due to the others higher position.

Even after this there will be some to deny the Sajda to Dai, let them continue to do so.

Try to understand their hidden agenda. They are wildly searching for justification of sajda so they can perform it to their beloved ajgar and insap..

[porus]

....... The Almighty and his Book are such an inconvenience for abdes. ..... See the hoops they have to jump through and knot themselves up in doctrinal jumble - and for what? Just so that they can do sajada to their Dai? What kind of religion is this that does not allow humans to worship humans. ......

With all the demonstrations from the Quran and hadith from their own books prohibiting sajda to humans, abdes just can't let go. For all Muslims, Quran would be enough but not for abdes. They must justify, no matter what the cost to their ultimate fate in front of Allah, their disobedience to Allah.

This is how they must scrape the barrel of their dogmatic dustbin. This is from ibn Kathir's Qisas ul-Anbiya, an imaginative fiction on the lives of the Prophets, from a foremost Sunni Mufassir of the Quran:

"According to Ibn Kathir, Maryam alayha salam and her sister, Um Yahya alayha salam, who is also Zakariya’s wife, were pregnant at the same time. When Um Yahya was near Maryam, the child in her womb would bow to the child in Maryam’s, since at that time sujood was permissible. "

http://www.islamhouse.com/d/files/en/ih ... _Islam.doc

Normally, they would not touch ibn Kathir with a barge pole since he holds the first three Khalifas and Aaisha in the highest esteem, But hey, whatever serves to justify shirk!

[Humsafar]

Abde: I want to do sajda to dai.
porus: No, you can't. It's not wajib. Allah has strictly forbidden it.
Abde: No, I want to do it.
anajmi: No you can't, it's shirk.
Abde: No, I want to do it.
Humsafar: Don't, don't you have any self dignity.
Abde: No, I want to, I want to.
porus: No, you can't.
Boy: I want that new toy.
Dad: No you can't.
Boy: No, I want to, I want to.
Dad: No, you can't.
Abde: I want to do sajada to dai.
anajmi: No, you can't.
Abde: No, I want to I want to.
Boy: No, I want to I want to.
Dad: No, you can't.
Abde: I want to I want to.
Boy: I want to I want to.
Dad: No, you can't.
Abde: I want to I want to.
Boy: I want to I want to.

[Conscíous]

People, why are you so troubled and distressed about prostrating before the Dai. Remember, act of prostration did not cause the banishment of Iblis, it was the act of non-prostration.

Another example for you people, I know this too would not suffice those who are adamant like dead-wood but for those who may want to rethink their stand, then read below;

When the mother of Yahya (John) was expectant she said to Maryam, who was expectant also, "I can feel that which is in my womb to be bowing down to that which is in your womb.

So what your trying to say is that,,.. you (abdes) are still in the "fetus" and are still not fully developed and that's why you are allowed to do sajda to the Dai ??
All this is so confusing ?

[Muslim First]

Sajda in Islam is prohibited except to Allah SWT

Sajda to hunan being in Bohri religion is OK as per Bohri secrete books

[BlackSaya]

Bohris are not interested in Islam, only in their own Bohra religion (which is in a galaxy far far away from Islam).

Heck, change their Dai's name to Bur-Hanuman-din, and they might be able to increase their numbers by attracting hindus into their religion!

[ghulam muhammed]

Heck, change their Dai's name to Bur-Hanuman-din, and they might be able to increase their numbers by attracting hindus into their religion!

Have you witnessed the 'Wadhawni rasam' of the dai ? I bet you would have come up with another phrase, probably 'Burh-aarti' as it reminds one of the aartis performed on bhagwans by hindus.

[Conscíous]

Yeah, IF..

What was haram then is haram now. All the prophets follow the same religion, and worship the same Allah.

So what is Halal in this life ( like "Sajda to the Dai") is Halal in the hereafter right ??
And from what I have understood about the Sajda is; Sajda to Allah is not the same as the Sajda to the Dai because, Sajda to the Dai is kissing the ground/earth right??
Now can you please explain me, how will you perform your Sajda to the Dai, if there is no ground/earth to kiss in the afterlife ??
And even if you perform sajda to the Dai in paradise, how will Allah manage to differentiate between the two Sajda??

[/size]

this are legitimate questions and needs to be answered guys
Abdes, come on.. If you don't want to answer. at least, try to ridiculous me

[Muslim First]

Adam wrote:
What was haram then is haram now. All the prophets follow the same religion, and worship the same Allah

Dear Abde Brothers;

If this is right then consumption of wine is not HARAM for bohras.

Instead of Giving Sharbat, slaves should give him glass of finest vintage wine in 'Wadhawani ceremony'.
After Devta takes a sip rest should be mixed with more wine for slaves to partake, which will bring them lots of Barakat
.

[porus]

Well, our new guest Adam appears to have decided to 'disappear' just as I had predicted he would. He also appeared to be more intelligent than the most of the rest of abdes who are mere hecklers. For those whose identities have been tied with disobedience to Allah's commands, it is not easy to submit to the the heat of rationality and relentless logic of Quran's message of tawheed.

However, I must caution those who obliquely take a swipe at Hindu rituals. It is best to confine criticism on the basis of the Quran and not to appear critical of Hinduism or any other religion. They have their adherents and they too have 'truth' on their side.

[Humsafar]

However, I must caution those who obliquely take a swipe at Hindu rituals. It is best to confine criticism on the basis of the Quran and not to appear critical of Hinduism or any other religion. They have their adherents and they too have 'truth' on their side.

porus, I'm glad you brought this up. It troubles me whenever reference to Hinduism is made in this context. The new, invented Bohra practices are wrong not because they are Hindu-like but because they are un-Islamic. I know people bring in the Hindu reference for dramatic effect, to highlight "idol worshipping" but please let's not put down another religion to win brownie points. And please do not derail this thread by discussing this side issue. If anyone feels strongly about it please start a new thread.