My Predicament

[depressed]

Hi. I am a completely depressed bohra. I a married guy with one child and I am gay. I have bn havin these feling sinc childhood. People say that homosexaulity is not by birth rathr it is envoiironmental but in my case i had always had these felins. i am a devout muslim and am vry ashamd for havin these felins. I donot fel any sexual desire at all for a women and me and my wife hardly have any intercourse becuase i do not get aroused. She is a very lovin wife and i am blessed for havin her. She thinks that i have a problem and she supports me but she doesnt know the truth. SOmetimes i think that i am deceiving her but i dare not becuase it woild break her heart and i love her more than my life. I try to have sexual encounters with men out of desperation but 99% of the times i donot go through with it becuase of fear of allah. But i am not completely sinless either. i have had sex with men very few times. but i never enjoy it. i feel guilty all the time and always vow to never do it again but having noother sexual release always forces me to do it. i am even ashamed to love god and his awliyah as i think that i am too much of a sinner and od wud send curses on me. I am very depressed about this whole cycle. Feeling aroused, meeting people, running away, feeling guility, repeenting and wow never to do it again but always doing it again. i am a sexually very activeso it is very hard for me to stop. i sometimes pray that god makes me impotent and that would be better. my question is that what is the hashar for people like me. i am destined for hell becuase i think i am. i am ashamed of going to a bohra amil becuase of obviuous reasons and so decied to post on this anony,nymous forum. i would appreciate if some bohra would et me a answer for my predicament from some amil. i do not want a sunni or wahabi or mainstream shia fatwa just an answer from a bohra amil. your help would be really appreciated. i just want to know is there any chance for me in the afterlife. as most of what i go throiuh is out of my hand, though i do not absolve myself from all fault. but i am getting tired of this life and waiting for death.

[needtobefair]

First and foremost- there is nothing wrong with you. Secondly, there is nothing to be ashamed of at all . I agree that this is surely tough on you but the world and India has come to accept homosexuality.
Religions don't . But then again, God did not make religion and HE doesn’t differentiate his people based on these choices. He has better things to question us on.
You love your wife and you say that she loves you. It will certainly be a shock to her. I suggest that you first help yourself by going to therapy - this I don’t mean for you to become "straight" but for you gain strength to accept and love who you are. Since right now, you don’t like yourself and have to. It will also help you if need come out of the closet and stand up to your family and be able to convince them to accept you.
This journey is going to be tough one - and God will give you the strength to do the right thing.

I repeat to you - there is NOTHING wrong with you.
Note to the rest - post only if you can motivate, else pls don’t. This is not an issue for mudslinging but a very serious personal problem that needs support.

[ozmujaheed]

Depressed , I really hope that your issue is sincere or are an abde trying to test the oppositions view. Your spelling mistakes are too intentional and you have purposely played around with words. Any way referring to the topic for true gays it is interesting I don't have answers but questions and comments

your son is yours biologically ?
I think your wife is not as naive as you think?

Islam forbids homosexuality and though the western society is tolerant there are reasons to remain discrete so as not to tempt people into homo for trying or alternatively, just like you don't sell drugs in open, have sex in public places even if it is natural

I think any parent would hate to find out their son or daughter tried homosexuality because it was okay, they liked it and want to remain gay.

If you reason that it is natural, my personal view natural is to be male or female, sexuality is primarily for reproduction but if humans over time have turned it into pleasure than you as a muslim can practise self restraint just like one avoids pork, alcohol , extramarital affairs, rape even if the urge is there. Can you imagine if society allowed all forms of urges where we would end up.

If you think marriage is only for sexual pleasure with your type then you are in trouble, many good families survive illness, poverty, disability, issues without sex as that important. So blaming god for your deviation may be true but so is self restraint a cure. You need help how to deal with your disability !

If you cannot be loyal to your wife leave her as any other person would do if they had other issues, go stay with your man, support your son financially and prevent influencing your son and give him a chance to be naturally attracted to a female rather than giving him option other than a female.

Alternatively denounce your faith, and follow your own ideology there are many out, because asking Islam to accept you is beyond mankinds authority, I don't think I will see that level of compromise in my lifetime. Sorry mate

[depressed]

Depressed , I really hope that your issue is sincere or are an abde trying to test the oppositions view. Your spelling mistakes are too intentional and you have purposely played around with words. Any way referring to the topic for true gays it is interesting I don't have answers but questions and comments

your son is yours biologically ?
I think your wife is not as naive as you think?

Islam forbids homosexuality and though the western society is tolerant there are reasons to remain discrete so as not to tempt people into homo for trying or alternatively, just like you don't sell drugs in open, have sex in public places even if it is natural

I think any parent would hate to find out their son or daughter tried homosexuality because it was okay, they liked it and want to remain gay.

If you reason that it is natural, my personal view natural is to be male or female, sexuality is primarily for reproduction but if humans over time have turned it into pleasure than you as a muslim can practise self restraint just like one avoids pork, alcohol , extramarital affairs, rape even if the urge is there. Can you imagine if society allowed all forms of urges where we would end up.

If you think marriage is only for sexual pleasure with your type then you are in trouble, many good families survive illness, poverty, disability, issues without sex as that important. So blaming god for your deviation may be true but so is self restraint a cure. You need help how to deal with your disability !

If you cannot be loyal to your wife leave her as any other person would do if they had other issues, go stay with your man, support your son financially and prevent influencing your son and give him a chance to be naturally attracted to a female rather than giving him option other than a female.

Alternatively denounce your faith, and follow your own ideology there are many out, because asking Islam to accept you is beyond mankinds authority, I don't think I will see that level of compromise in my lifetime. Sorry mate

Yes, my son is mine, i am not impotent.
I do not have a "man", as i said i donot sleep around,
I am not asking islam to be tolerant. I am asking what is the islamic(bohra) view.
I do not display homosexuality in public
I do not want the "opposition" view, only the bohra view. I am not interested in an others.
I am not asking anyone to be tolerant of homosexuality. It is a sin.

[humanbeing]

Dear Desperate
Your dilemma is really disturbing. God bless you !

Feeling of homosexuality sometimes arises due to hormonal imbalance / environmental upbringing / child sexual abuse. What do you think could be a major factor for your orientation ?

Are you a productive member of the family, society in general ? Do you have a job ? A steady Income ? A career aim / dream to achieve ?

How did you meet your wife ? Arrange or Love ? What is your understanding level with your wife, is she your best friend ?
What is the age of your child ?

Dear Desperate ! If you don’t wish to answer these questions you can comfortably deny ! Nevertheless Good people on this forum would try to help you.

Be strong ! and have faith !! Allah loves All .. Its humans who are cursed with emotion of hatred.

[Conscíous]

Hey depressed and welcome,
I believe the reason you are depressed is not because you are homosexual but the double life you are living.. If you already knew from childhood that you were different, then why did you get married in the first place?? You will never able to suppress your true feelings, no matter how much therapy or antidepressant you consume or by getting married as you did..

I believe your time has come to face to music for the decision you've made and people you've involved in your life. I can imagine the internal vagrancy you are experiencing right now and only you, can help yourself out of this..

Honest is the key to your problems my friend.. It will not only set you free, but those around you.. If you really love your wife, you'll not only let her go but maybe even find her a new man, so your child will be in good hands.. And If she can't handle the truth, then find some other reason.. Stop being a egoist and think about her needs, which you can't fulfill.. And stop bothering about death by waiting for it, he'll find you when the time is right..

Life is to precious, treasure it..

Good luck

[JC]

Hello Depressed and All,

First of all I am very sorry to learn that Depressed is going thru this mental trauma and torture. You my friend are not alone in this, there are many others like you in our society (Indo-Pak, Muslim-Shia-Bohra society).

I am also gay and had posted similiar post sometimes back on this forum only asking the similar questions.

First of all, I agree with one point - THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU ....... HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT SIN..!!

This is a long debate, I am convinced that it is neither a sin nor a disease. This is Natural, a man is BORN gay or straight, we DO NOT have choices here ........ it is like a man is born handsome, fair, ugly, dark, etc etc. This is a very natural trait. Leave SIN aside because it is the Religion which has made it a SIN, people claim Religion is from God, but it is the man who has spread and interpreted it. Majority has been straight so homosexuality becomes sin. As for Disease, again No, had it been so we could have found a cure, leaving that aside too, 'how' do we categorize it as disease? it does not fulfil the criteria of being a disease.
You cannot avoid it, supress it, hide it, change it, replace it, loose it, you will have to LIVE with it. So LIVE with it and be PROUD on what you are. What you must do is upto you, people have given you options, consider those and make your own decision. You may tell your wife and take it from there. OR Live like this only and try to oeversome this truama and sadness and depression, convince yourself that YOU are good, there is nothing wrong with you and DO what you want, neded, desire and wish to do. Forget everything else, this is between you and your God, God understands you and your feelings. Do not be ashamed, you are NOT bringing any harm to any person or to any property, you are Good.

[anajmi]

HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT SIN..!!

As per Islam it is a sin and this is amongst the clearest of messages of the Quran. If you are a homosexual, I believe that you should feel depressed and guilty like depressed feels and because he feels that way I have hope that he will be cured of his disease inshaallah. There is a famous tradition where a sinner asks Allah for forgiveness and Allah says I forgive him because my slave recognizes me for my forgiveness. If you expect Allah to cure you, you will be cured. If you do not think it is a sin, then you do not seek forgiveness or cure and you will get neither.

depressed,

I would suggest that you go for therapy as suggested earlier.

[Conscíous]

You people keep throwing words like therapy?? I would really like to know, what kind of therapy can cure homosexuality?? and I want to see the evidence..

[anajmi]

I tried to cure some gays recently with some mental therapy but I now realize that it was a major failure.

[JC]

Homosexuality is neither SIN nor DISEASE .......

Anajmi, Are you straight by 'choice' or were you born straight?? For the sake of argument, if you 'want' to become 'gay', can you?? Had it been by choice this should work, this does not coz this is not by choice.

Then how can this be a SIN if I was born like that??

A person can be impotent, would that be his sin if he was borm imptent??

It is God's Wish how He chooses to make someone.

And why this is a 'disease'? only coz I cannot have sex with opposite sex and produce children makes it a disesae? Remember, gays can have sex with females and they can have children. Or since gays want to make love to guys makes it a disease?? You are attracted to Red or Green, I am to Pink, so whats wrong about it.

My belief is - God has His ways. No one can judge me if no one can feel what I am going thru.

[anajmi]

JC,

This is not my personal opinion. The Quran is pretty clear. The people of Lut (as) were destroyed because they were homosexuals. Lut(as) offered his own daughters in marriage to these people but they refused and instead were lusting after the angels in the form of men. So we know what God's opinion is. The Quran was revealed to teach us what God likes and what he doesn't and he doesn't like homosexuality because he destroyed homosexuals.

Whether you are born that way or not is not my concern. Maybe you were born that way so that you could be tested. If you give in to your urges, then you have failed the test.

[profastian]

I think people here are partially right. There is nothing wrong with being gay. But it is certainly a sin to act(sexually) gay. I do not think therapy can change your orientation as it is a natural phenomenon rather you should do sabar. If you cannot have sex with a women, do not have it with men either. It is better to be celibate than sin. God created you with a flaw similar to a blind, deaf or dumb person but you should not lose heart. I know you would say that being born blind and born gay is not the same thing as a blind person has no choice and you have. But I think that Allah will give you Reward if you do not act upon this choice. I know that all this is easier said than done, and you will slip sometime. But still you keep doing toba and hope that Allah will forgive you. This will certainly make your life much more difficult than if you come out of the closet and be gay, but you will inshallah get your reward in afterlife. Consider this an examination by Allah and try to pass.

All this is my personal opinion and I would certainly love to hear what an Alim has to say about it.

[Conscíous]

I have hope that he will be cured of his disease inshaallah.

This is not my personal opinion. The Quran is pretty clear.

Can you please show me were in the Quran it written that homosexuality is a disease??

[Conscíous]

My belief is - God has His ways. No one can judge me if no one can feel what I am going thru.

I second that ^^

[anajmi]

That it is a disease is simply my opinion based upon my extensive scientific research and analysis. Quran says it is a sin and that should be sufficient. I consider all kinds of sin that become a compulsion in a human, a disease. Unable to control homosexual urge is similar to being unable to control promiscuous urges which is also considered a mental disease. A person who switches his lights on and off multiple times to make sure that they are working is said to be suffering from a disease too. Watching too much porn is also considered a disease.

[Humsafar]

Depressed, I do sympathise with your predicament, although I can't even begin to imagine what you must be going through. From your post it seems there are two things that's botherig you: religion and wife. Since you are a devout Muslim and worried about the hereafter your doubt and guilt are understandable. You're seeking advice from an amil, but you should know that no amil (bohra or otherwise) is going to condone your sexuality. You should have no doubt in your mind that an amil will give you a green light, the best he will say is what profastian has said (for once a sane post by him), have sabr and supress your instincts.
Your second predicament is your love for your wife - and hers for you. In my mind, this is more important of the two predicaments. Religious faith is a product of conditioning and your guilt is a result of that. Your relationship with your wife is more concrete and tangible. How your coming out will affect her is something you must consider seriously. In my view, that is the only thing that matters. I hope I'm not trivialising your situation.

[Conscíous]

I have hope that he will be cured of hisdisease inshaallah.

This is not my personal opinion. The Quran is pretty clear.

Can you please show me were in the Quran it written that homosexuality is a disease??

That it is a disease is simply my opinion based upon my extensive scientific research and analysis.Quran says it is a sin

Ohh really, then why did you say this

If you expect Allah to cure you, you will be cured.

Does Allah (swt) cure sin or forgive them??

[anajmi]

Can you please show me were in the Quran it written that homosexuality is a disease??

No.

Ohh really, then why did you say this

Cause I assumed that the people who are reading had some sense. Apparently, I was wrong.

Does Allah (swt) cure sin or forgive them??

A person with average or above average IQ wouldn't need to ask this question. A person with less than average IQ wouldn't understand the answer, so I won't waste my time.

[Al Zulfiqar]

depressed,

i must admire your courage in coming to this forum and airing your dilemma, even if you are writing under a pseudonym.

the central thrust of your post is your need to know what a bohra alim would advise you based on our deeni beliefs. i purposefully use the word alim, and not amil as you have put it. although this is not germaine to your issue, in the bohra context, amil does not equal alim. most of the bohra amils of today are saifee daras assembly-line manufactured automatons who have been trained to toe the commands from head office and do not possess any real ilm of their own except the superficial crap rammed down their gullible throats. they are readied more to be stern managers of jamaats rather than scholars of islam or our deen. so do not expect any sympathy or understanding from them.

if you even dream of approaching a bohra mulla or amil, then be warned. you will be scolded, called all sorts of names and dished out. forget about getting any help from the bohra clergy. since you already seem to be well aware of islam's stand on your condition and you seem to be alternating between guilt and feelings which overwhelm you, your only hope now is to face yourself and your conscience, ask yourself what is more important to you, what are your priorities. is it your family, your wife, your child and your friends and society, or is it your unfulfilled sexuality?

this is not so easy as it appears. you may need to seek expert counselling from a professional. do some research to find a suitable psychiatrist in your area. please do not at this stage discuss anything with your wife on this subject as it could destroy her life and your family's. please do not delay and attend to this most urgently. meanwhile please do not despair and be strong, instead of being depressed and weak, get up and take affirmative action. the more you curse yourself, the more you will sink deeper into an abyss of self-hate, depravity, deceit and guilt. respect and love yourself. you were made as a beautiful whole by allah. if you seek his help sincerely and also take outside help as advised above, there will be light at the end of your dark tunnel.

Btw, i am quite amazed by the sympathetic responses of some our members above, although most are struggling to find an appropriate response. we normally thrust and parry with sharp edged swords at each other and it warms one's heart to see the moderate and sensible posts on this sensitive subject from members on all sides of the spectrum. thanks guys!

[ozmujaheed]

Depressed, after reading your reply, let me clarify, it is only a sin if you commit the act, if you get the thoughts and are able suppress the urge and to show restraint you will be fine as a Muslim.

[Al Zulfiqar]

Depressed, after reading your reply, let me clarify, it is only a sin if you commit the act, if you get the thoughts and are able suppress the urge and to show restraint you will be fine as a Muslim.

ozzy, have you even bothered to read his post fully?? this is what he has said in his very first post:

"But i am not completely sinless either. i have had sex with men .."

[Hussain_KSA]

Admin

Please delete this thread or shift it to some where else. It has nothing to do with forum and reform. It would rahter creat some bad impression. This is only a suggestion.

Regards

[feelgud]

. I have bn havin these feling sinc childhood. People say that homosexaulity is not by birth rathr it is envoiironmental but in my case i had always had these felins. i am a devout muslim and am vry ashamd for havin these felins....

hi
first of all never get depressed dear,if you are a devout muslim.Allah says,
39:53 (Asad) SAY: “[Thus speaks God:] [57] ‘O you servants of Mine who have transgressed against your own selves! Despair not of God’s mercy: behold, God forgives all sins - for, verily, He alone is much-forgiving, a dis­penser of grace!’ ”

secondly,
Me too[or many like me] whenever see half naked or a girl with attractive contours,start having hot feelings to do something. This is also ''natural'' but at the same time this [natural]doesnt mean we should do whatever our whims want to take us.
So even if you have those 'natural'feelings ,you should avoid it asap..
your r blessed with a loving ,understanding wife and a kid.I hope they are enough to divert your attantion,if u try with strong will.

rest Allah will forgive,stay sure with his promise made in the above verse.

[Conscíous]

anajmi,
I've already presented my case and the evidence is here for everyone to judge for them selfs how you are twisting words and I won't beat you around that anymore,.. but could you please show us your extensive scientific research and analysis on homosexuality as a disease??
Thanks

Admin,
You don't need to delete this thread, just move it..
thanks

[Al Zulfiqar]

admin,

i too second bro, hussain ksa in suggesting that this thread be moved to another forum. i'm sure you do not want the fanatics shouting from the rooftops saying that reformists are now encouraging unislamic behaviour among bohras...?

[SBM]

Thanks Admins and Br. Hussain_KSA and AZ

[JC]

Bros ........

Homosexuality is neither sin nor disease ......

We cannot compare it one being blind or deaf ........ the basic difference is that being Blind or beinf Deaf means one has A SHORTCOMING or a LIMITATION, may be by birth or accident and I CAN or MAY be cured.

Homesexuality is NO SHORTCOMING or LIMITATION, the person is Complete and Natural .... got the point. A person is Straight so there is nothing wrong with him, correct?? So is a Gay person..!!

Leave aside the story of Lut and his people .......... this is just the matter or interpretation, and why God had to finish them off, by all counts if each and every person was gay, that would end by themselves as there would be no children?? How big was the QAUM?? And if the whole QAUM was Gay where did the daughers of Lut came?? Oh he must have married a 'woman' and 'where did that woman came from' - who were the parents of that 'woman', so there must be at least one more straight man, correct?? and that would be Lut's father-in-law?? Or you mean to say there were some straight men tooo, but Ghayu Kay Saath Ghun Bhee Pess Gaya ........!!!

Poeple talk of various 'urges' and advice to stay away if they are considered 'immoral', correct? So if Gays have sex urge with a guy, they should refrain and do not do anything?? WHY??!! This is OUR birth right..!! If I have urges and other man is willing too, I see no harm, no sin no disease, no nothing, all perfectly normal. What Consenting Adults Do should be OK till it is not to harm other person or property.

[anajmi]

JC,

and why God had to finish them off, by all counts if each and every person was gay, that would end by themselves as there would be no children??

How else would God tell us that he doesn't approve of homosexuality?

And if the whole QAUM was Gay

Obviously, the whole QAUM was not gay. There were a few good people in there who were saved. There were obviously "A few Good Men". They might have been saved with Lut (as) or they too paid the price for not having worked hard enough to reform the gay community.

If I have urges and other man is willing too, I see no harm, no sin no disease, no nothing, all perfectly normal.

That is your opinion and you are welcome to it. I consider it to be the most reprehensible of acts. I do not want the punishment of Allah.

Admin doesn't need to delete this thread. These are the kinds of topics that we should be discussing openly.

[JC]

Bravo Bro Anajmi.

You are free to have your opinion and I am free to have mine, you preach and practice what you believe PEACEFULLY and I do the same. Thank You.

I take your jokes jokingly ....... you may NOT, what you may not, and I may what I may...

Please one thing, homosexuality is NOT only about sex with other men, there is more to it. This is a Mind Set, something which is part of one's self. Straight people have their life and a part of it is love and sex with opposite sex, same is with Gay people, the only difference with same sex. You may prefer Kareena Kapoor, I may prefer Shahid Kapoor ........