Categorising the proggies

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Categorising the proggies

#1

Unread post by profastian » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:35 am

1) People who do not want to pay wajebats but enjoy all the food and facilities
2) People who do no want to follow sharia, keep beard, pay zakat
3) Wanna be activist, desperate to find a cause where there is none.
4) Wanna be aalims snubbed by the Syedna for their giant egos.
5) People corrupted by deobandis and wahabis ideals.
6) People vying for the piece of the power.
7) People who are too dumb, and who get bored during the ilmi majilis.
8 ) People who had some sort of fight with the local jamaat members or amils and in their ignorance blame the DAI.
9) Educated people (by degrees but in reality jahils) who consider themselves free thinkers and would have eventually snubbed whatever faith or denomination they had been born into. Such people can be found across all religions and faiths.
10) People born into a reformist household or having a reformist parent.


Engineer - Category 3
Raj - Category 4
AZ - Category 8
Anajmi - Category 5

Abdes and proggies please chip in with more categorization :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

aziz
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:25 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#2

Unread post by aziz » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:57 am

there is only one category and that is that they all hate the dai il mutlaq. all other categories mentioned fall in this category .
it does not matter who the dai is or what he does bottom line is that they have adawat in their hearts which will never go.
this type of people existed during the time of Adam as and all other ambiyas and nabis. even Mohamed rasullah sa had such people as his enemies who are known then imams had such progs so it should not surprise anyone if they are there today cause iblis was given freedom till day of Qayamat by Allah and his followers will always be there in different categories as put by MN but again bottom line all dushman

aqs
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Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:42 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#3

Unread post by aqs » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:15 am

11) people who want a easy way out. In the name of freedom its freedom from religion itself.

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#4

Unread post by stranger » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:59 am

profastian wrote:1) People who do not want to pay wajebats but enjoy all the food and facilities
2) People who do no want to follow sharia, keep beard, pay zakat
3) Wanna be activist, desperate to find a cause where there is none.
4) Wanna be aalims snubbed by the Syedna for their giant egos.
5) People corrupted by deobandis and wahabis ideals.
6) People vying for the piece of the power.
7) People who are too dumb, and who get bored during the ilmi majilis.
8 ) People who had some sort of fight with the local jamaat members or amils and in their ignorance blame the DAI.
9) Educated people (by degrees but in reality jahils) who consider themselves free thinkers and would have eventually snubbed whatever faith or denomination they had been born into. Such people can be found across all religions and faiths.
10) People born into a reformist household or having a reformist parent.


Engineer - Category 3
Raj - Category 4
AZ - Category 8
Anajmi - Category 5

Abdes and proggies please chip in with more categorization :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
FearAllah - Category 7 :mrgreen:

fearAllah
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:09 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#5

Unread post by fearAllah » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:28 am

profastian wrote:1) People who do not want to pay wajebats but enjoy all the food and facilities
2) People who do no want to follow sharia, keep beard, pay zakat
3) Wanna be activist, desperate to find a cause where there is none.
4) Wanna be aalims snubbed by the Syedna for their giant egos.
5) People corrupted by deobandis and wahabis ideals.
6) People vying for the piece of the power.
7) People who are too dumb, and who get bored during the ilmi majilis.
8 ) People who had some sort of fight with the local jamaat members or amils and in their ignorance blame the DAI.
9) Educated people (by degrees but in reality jahils) who consider themselves free thinkers and would have eventually snubbed whatever faith or denomination they had been born into. Such people can be found across all religions and faiths.
10) People born into a reformist household or having a reformist parent.


Engineer - Category 3
Raj - Category 4
AZ - Category 8
Anajmi - Category 5

Abdes and proggies please chip in with more categorization :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Bhagwan Burhannudin - Category 1

SBM
Posts: 6352
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#6

Unread post by SBM » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:37 am

aqs wrote:11) people who want a easy way out. In the name of freedom its freedom from religion itself.
People who want a easy way out and not fight corruption and un-Islamic practices and run away from Ahl-Ul-Bayt's way of life---COWARD Category
People who do not fear Allah but fear a human being and his goons TOP CATEGORY of HYPOCRITES

SBM
Posts: 6352
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#7

Unread post by SBM » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:21 am

mustafanalwalla wrote:
SBM wrote: People who want a easy way out and not fight corruption and un-Islamic practices and run away from Ahl-Ul-Bayt's way of life---COWARD Category
People who do not fear Allah but fear a human being and his goons TOP CATEGORY of HYPOCRITES

Who said we fear Syedna? We dont. We love him.

As for his goons, well, we dont fear them, we just tolerate them because we have to all live together.

You dont fear them, but you still go to them to pay your waajebaat and sabeel right. You dont go out of fear but merely to avoid inconveniences. Same here (but this time, i speak only for myself)
This posting has to be a joke, You do not fear the Goons, and you pay Wajebaats to avoid inconveniences, in Islam there should be no inconveniences due to Monetary consideration. glad you speak for yourself :roll:

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#8

Unread post by porus » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:40 am

aqs wrote:11) people who want a easy way out. In the name of freedom its freedom from religion itself.
I would leave out the first sentence and make the second sentence a worthwhile goal for everyone, not just the proggies. That is "Freedom from religion". And it is not an "easy way out", That is why most people are stuck in it.

I am referring to religion as an organized set of dogmas and a system of authority and control by priesthood. In the case of the Bohras, priesthood is not amorphous but can be identified as the Royal Family. However, this is not what Religion actually is.

Religion, as can be gleaned from the world's scriptures, is an expression of a human yearning for 'transcendental' or, if you like, God. The priesthood has successfully tapped into this yearning and made exploitation of it into a vulgar art, first by expropriating the claims to esoteric knowledge all for themselves and secondly, to sell that knowledge in exchange for slavery, making their slaves observe pointless rituals for glorification of the priesthood.

Quran has warned us against priesthood and it has its own prescription for approaching transcendence. Like Yoga, Nirvana, Satori, Christ Consciousness etc, Islam hints at it. It is 'Taawil'. No, it is not the travesty that was uttered by the Alavi Madhoon. It is a method not for slavery but for ultimate freedom, an excellent goal from freedom from what passes for religion for everyone.

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#9

Unread post by seeker110 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:41 pm

In the beginning God created Dai.

aziz
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:25 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#10

Unread post by aziz » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:48 pm

like i said before all fall in one category that is dawat na dushman just like iblis who was dushman of adam as dawat,some cloak themselves as concerned with sajda ,others money, others matam,some with kothar,some with freedom from sharia, beards, ridas, and all have different cloaks but bottom line all are dushmano.

all this thought comes from the fact that they hate the dai il mutlaq and have to have a reason for this hatred to be justified,and whatever moula tus does because this hatred the goalposts will be shifted and another reason will be found for the hatred to continue

but as said before this is nothing new dushmanos have been there since adam as and will be there till sahebul qayamat ,
dawat will continue on and on

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#11

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:48 pm

seeker110 wrote:In the beginning God created Dai.
correct! he then made him haqiqi kaaba, qurane natiq and ghaib na maalik, before the kaaba was actually built, the quran was sent and anything else was created.

Conscíous
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:41 pm

Re: Categorising the proggies

#12

Unread post by Conscíous » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:50 pm

seeker110 wrote:In the beginning God created Dai.
For sure :mrgreen:

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#13

Unread post by profastian » Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:33 pm

porus wrote:
aqs wrote:11) people who want a easy way out. In the name of freedom its freedom from religion itself.
I would leave out the first sentence and make the second sentence a worthwhile goal for everyone, not just the proggies. That is "Freedom from religion". And it is not an "easy way out", That is why most people are stuck in it.

I am referring to religion as an organized set of dogmas and a system of authority and control by priesthood. In the case of the Bohras, priesthood is not amorphous but can be identified as the Royal Family. However, this is not what Religion actually is.

Religion, as can be gleaned from the world's scriptures, is an expression of a human yearning for 'transcendental' or, if you like, God. The priesthood has successfully tapped into this yearning and made exploitation of it into a vulgar art, first by expropriating the claims to esoteric knowledge all for themselves and secondly, to sell that knowledge in exchange for slavery, making their slaves observe pointless rituals for glorification of the priesthood.

Quran has warned us against priesthood and it has its own prescription for approaching transcendence. Like Yoga, Nirvana, Satori, Christ Consciousness etc, Islam hints at it. It is 'Taawil'. No, it is not the travesty that was uttered by the Alavi Madhoon. It is a method not for slavery but for ultimate freedom, an excellent goal from freedom from what passes for religion for everyone.
Conned that from the spiritualist handbook?

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#14

Unread post by seeker110 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:36 pm

If you ever read one :)

SBM
Posts: 6352
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#15

Unread post by SBM » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:07 pm

]profastian
Conned that from the spiritualist handbook?
How would you know, if you do not know the difference between Wajebaat and Sabil which any kothari fearing abde should know.

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#16

Unread post by seeker110 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:36 pm

See there is a false bottom in the tejori,but it all goes in the same tejore.Now guard it with your life.

aqs
Posts: 848
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:42 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#17

Unread post by aqs » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:38 am

SBM wrote:
aqs wrote:11) people who want a easy way out. In the name of freedom its freedom from religion itself.
People who want a easy way out and not fight corruption and un-Islamic practices and run away from Ahl-Ul-Bayt's way of life---COWARD Category
People who do not fear Allah but fear a human being and his goons TOP CATEGORY of HYPOCRITES
Br. SBM,

and how will we categories people who come to this forum and rant against Syedna(tus) and Kothar but go back to being a Ejamaat carrying member. Surely one of the category of Profastian befits them.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#18

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:58 am

A few more categories of the proggies.

1) Those who want to follow Islam as taught by the prophet (saw).
2) Those who do not want to fold their hands in front of a mortal.
3) Those who do not want to bow down in front of a mortal who himself is bent.
4) Those who do not want to do sajda to anyone other than Allah.
5) Those who want to ensure that their zakat and sadaqa goes to helping the needy and not towards the luxurious living of a few parasites.
6) Those who raise their voice against oppression.
7) Those who do not want to subject themselves to humiliation at the hands of parasites.
8 Those who believe that accountability is a noose tied around the neck of even the prophets as to how they spent what was given to them.
9) Those who believe that on the day of judgement only Allah will have the final word.

SBM
Posts: 6352
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#19

Unread post by SBM » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:09 am

aqs wrote:
SBM wrote: People who want a easy way out and not fight corruption and un-Islamic practices and run away from Ahl-Ul-Bayt's way of life---COWARD Category
People who do not fear Allah but fear a human being and his goons TOP CATEGORY of HYPOCRITES
Br. SBM,

and how will we categories people who come to this forum and rant against Syedna(tus) and Kothar but go back to being a Ejamaat carrying member. Surely one of the category of Profastian befits them.
Br. Aqs: welcome back and that category will be Gandhian Category who want to bring changes by staying in the fold and bravely standing up against corruption, tyranny and all the thing Gandhi did to bring freedom to Indian Masses, don't you agree?
Last edited by SBM on Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

SBM
Posts: 6352
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#20

Unread post by SBM » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:14 am

mustafanalwalla wrote:@ SBM

Do you not do the same too?

Tell you what, why dont you stop paying waajebat and Sabil. Stand up to them and tell them that you arent going to do it if you have the guts, and face whatever comes your way like a man.

If you dont have the courage to do it, then the joke is on you.
And how do you know that I did not do it? For your information I did that and after a lull of couple of years, I was invited back and I still attend Majaalis and pay wajebaats as I see fit. Some of the people on this forum from other side of spectrum know about it.
Thanks for your suggestion been there and done it and not afraid to stand up to tyranny of Kothari Goons

Gulf
Posts: 674
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:01 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#21

Unread post by Gulf » Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:57 am

profastian wrote:1) People who do not want to pay wajebats but enjoy all the food and facilities
2) People who do no want to follow sharia, keep beard, pay zakat
3) Wanna be activist, desperate to find a cause where there is none.
4) Wanna be aalims snubbed by the Syedna for their giant egos.
5) People corrupted by deobandis and wahabis ideals.
6) People vying for the piece of the power.
7) People who are too dumb, and who get bored during the ilmi majilis.
8 ) People who had some sort of fight with the local jamaat members or amils and in their ignorance blame the DAI.
9) Educated people (by degrees but in reality jahils) who consider themselves free thinkers and would have eventually snubbed whatever faith or denomination they had been born into. Such people can be found across all religions and faiths.
10) People born into a reformist household or having a reformist parent.
Omabharti - she falls in Category 9 :D

Conscíous
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:41 pm

Re: Categorising the proggies

#22

Unread post by Conscíous » Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:25 pm

anajmi wrote:A few more categories of the proggies.

1) Those who want to follow Islam as taught by the prophet (saw).
2) Those who do not want to fold their hands in front of a mortal.
3) Those who do not want to bow down in front of a mortal who himself is bent.
4) Those who do not want to do sajda to anyone other than Allah.
5) Those who want to ensure that their zakat and sadaqa goes to helping the needy and not towards the luxurious living of a few parasites.
6) Those who raise their voice against oppression.
7) Those who do not want to subject themselves to humiliation at the hands of parasites.
8 Those who believe that accountability is a noose tied around the neck of even the prophets as to how they spent what was given to them.
9) Those who believe that on the day of judgement only Allah will have the final word.
ME LIKE :wink:

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#23

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:25 pm

Gulf wrote:
Omabharti - she falls in Category 9 :D
looks like our rip van winkle friend has come back to the forum after a deep sleep..! the world has moved on and this guy still exists in his blissful world of mental retardation. the gulf has widened and our idiot jumped in not knowing he now has to swim 75 miles instead of the 22 miles across the english channel..

aqs
Posts: 848
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:42 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#24

Unread post by aqs » Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:12 am

SBM wrote:Br. Aqs: welcome back and that category will be Gandhian Category who want to bring changes by staying in the fold and bravely standing up against corruption, tyranny and all the thing Gandhi did to bring freedom to Indian Masses, don't you agree?
Br. SBM,
Gandhi didnt pay any taxes infact he asked for non co operation movement. If any one who feels dawat is run by tyrants and goons then stop all kind of support and payment. One cant support them financially and then also talk against them. Either we stop payment or talks, we cant continue both. Dont you agree?

SBM
Posts: 6352
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#25

Unread post by SBM » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:08 am

One cant support them financially and then also talk against them. Either we stop payment or talks, we cant continue both. Dont you agree?
Br. Aqs
No you can still pay to continue to support local Markaza, what you do not have to pay is Wajebaats which are decided by the Goons. Now you can not have it both ways, In the past lot of intelligent people from other side asked us to stay in Dawat and make changes from within, Many had agreed there is lack of accountability and transparency and there is some time compulsion. If we do not pay and be a part , Gulf and Progcide will say who are you to tell us what to do since you are not paying anything," Cannot have it both ways" . I will pay and then I will keep my right to criticize and bring it to their and others attention of their wrong doings. And you are right Gandhi did not pay tax and so are the leaders of our Takha-e-Shahi but having a opulent life.

aqs
Posts: 848
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:42 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#26

Unread post by aqs » Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:18 am

SBM wrote:
One cant support them financially and then also talk against them. Either we stop payment or talks, we cant continue both. Dont you agree?
Br. Aqs
No you can still pay to continue to support local Markaza, what you do not have to pay is Wajebaats which are decided by the Goons. Now you can not have it both ways, In the past lot of intelligent people from other side asked us to stay in Dawat and make changes from within, Many had agreed there is lack of accountability and transparency and there is some time compulsion. If we do not pay and be a part , Gulf and Progcide will say who are you to tell us what to do since you are not paying anything," Cannot have it both ways" . I will pay and then I will keep my right to criticize and bring it to their and others attention of their wrong doings. And you are right Gandhi did not pay tax and so are the leaders of our Takha-e-Shahi but having a opulent life.
Br. SBM,

Agreed, Please continue with your questioning at the jamat level and we might achieve some accountability. I have always said that to bring change we need to be a part of the problem and cant dictate our ways sitting outside as progs are doing.

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#27

Unread post by JC » Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:04 pm

Forget Categorizing Progressives ............. there is unity among abdes with one category only - Jahile-Mutlaqs..!!

AQS, who says Progs are sitting outside only?? There are people inside also who are doing their two cents to bring about a change. There are so many ways you can do your part discreetly. Everyone faithfully does what he/she believes and change will come when time is right.

profastian
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Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#28

Unread post by profastian » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:43 pm

deleted

Admin
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Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Categorising the proggies

#29

Unread post by Admin » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:32 am

mustafanalwalla wrote:
profastian wrote:deleted

@ADMIN - Why did you delete it??????????
It is deleted by the user, not us.

tml87
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:35 pm

Re: Categorising the proggies

#30

Unread post by tml87 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:54 pm

profastian, It is always in the interest of the majority to suppress dissent in order to forward their agenda. What you are doing here in effect is an age old technique. It is known as argumentum ad hominem . You try to slur the messenger with negative attacks, thinking that in some way, this nullifies the message. Ironically, the Prophet is a fairly prominent recipient of ad hominem attacks.