What is the Objection with Accountability ?

[humanbeing]

Dear Abdes

Sayedna saheb is not accountable to lowly commoners, but only accountable to Allah and Imam-in-seclusion. Perfectly fine and acceptable.

For once please leave aside any prejudices, doubts and suspicion. And understand what is being asked / requested.

What exactly is the objection / apprehension with providing Accounts of Funds ?

Sayedna Saheb is too busy and involved with running of the Daawat (community) for spiritual salvation of its Rayyet. However the economics of running the administration and development of the community is in the hands / supervision of Kothar Inc.

There are enormous amounts of funds collected through various schemes

Sabeel, Wajebaat, Hoobs, Laagats, Salaam, Najwa, Service Charges (Ejamat Card, Forms, Processing Fees), Ziyafats etc.

What is the harm in providing accounts of funds collected and expended ?

By what justification / logic / reason…. presenting accounts is to undermine authority of sayedna saheb ?

[S. Insaf]

I fully agree with the views expressed here. Everything in this community is purposely done in the name Dai, by making him unaccountable to any one. But the members of his royal family, his Amils, Jamat/Tanzeem committees and sub-committees at least must be made accountable to the public. After all they claim to submit regular account to income tax, charity commissioners and wakf boards.
It is claimed that “Dai is above the laws of the land” yet he has to abide by the law but refuses to make accounts public. This is shear hypocrisy (munafiqat).

[ghulam muhammed]

What is the harm in providing accounts of funds collected and expended ?

Because if he honestly does so then the next moment he will be behind bars !!!

[humanbeing]

After all they claim to submit regular account to income tax, charity commissioners and wakf boards.
It is claimed that “Dai is above the laws of the land” yet he has to abide by the law but refuses to make accounts public.

Exactly ! When Kothar can submit accounts of funds to government, that does not undermine authority of Sayedna saheb being accountable only Imam-in-seclusion ? Can Kothar give this reason to Government, not only India, but also other countries.

An International Reiglious Organization, indulging in Cladestine Hawala Trading ? Cheating countries who bestows respect of National Guest to its leaders. Is also another Moral Issue.
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Hi GM

Lets not resort to name calling, lets not form presumptions. Lets hear what is the objection in providing Accounts of Funds ? Other than usual excuse which is unacceptable.

[profastian]

After all they claim to submit regular account to income tax, charity commissioners and wakf boards.
It is claimed that “Dai is above the laws of the land” yet he has to abide by the law but refuses to make accounts public.

Exactly ! When Kothar can submit accounts of funds to government, that does not undermine authority of Sayedna saheb being accountable only Imam-in-seclusion ? Can Kothar give this reason to Government, not only India, but also other countries.

An International Reiglious Organization, indulging in Cladestine Hawala Trading ? Cheating countries who bestows respect of National Guest to its leaders. Is also another Moral Issue.
------------------------------------------------------------
Hi GM

Lets not resort to name calling, lets not form presumptions. Lets hear what is the objection in providing Accounts of Funds ? Other than usual excuse which is unacceptable.

Why don't the proggies( those who pride themselves as sabeel paying members) declare their receipts here on this forum first. First prove that you guys pay sabeel and wajebats in the first place.

[humanbeing]

Profastian !

I m not asking you to present accounts on this forum in lieu of posting of our receipts. If I can say ; neither your are an authority nor have access to provide accounts of local jamat or kothar levels. (Unless you are big shot in kothar with access to financial information)

My question circles around purely with financial matters, which has no connection to emotional, spriritual or religious sentiments in the community. Presenting of accounts shall be a standard regular practice at local jamats as well kothar levels.

Accounts of Upliftment Projects, contructions, Jamat administration
Statistics of Beneficiaries
Surplus or Deficit

Accounts shall be available on request, posted on websites (Quartertly, Half yearly or Annually) Kothar Inc, is not a business enterprise, rather a religious institution which have no business secrets to guard, Many countries have standard formats of books of accounts which can be kept by such non profit religious institutions to organize funds collected.

Even capitalist business enterprises provide accounts to its investors who have pledged trust in the management of the organization. However I don’t intend to compare a business enterprise with Kothar, more ever because it’s a religious institution and very much accountable in financial matters to its followers.

I m not pointing fingers at sayedna saheb, funds from all over the world are collected, managed and expended by Kothari administration, sayedna saheb has bestowed raza and trust on his staff, which we have repeatedly seen has been betrayed by very own men appointed by sayedna saheb. Thus its breach of trust of public and sayedna saheb.

[alik]

@human being: u think he will reply!!
he is gulam who has the azeem sharaf to clean bathrooms in saifee mahal...and to come here and abuse

[ghulam muhammed]

Hi GM

Lets not resort to name calling, lets not form presumptions.

There was no name calling at all. What I stated was the obvious which is the case for anyone who hoardes black money and its no secret that the ziafat, hadiyat, mafsusiyat and title selling fees are collected in hard cash. Have you come accross any abde who availed of the above so called felicitation and paid the dai by account payee cheque ?

[humanbeing]

Hi GM

There are lot of financial activities which do not conform with laws of land, Kothar is running like a private entity rather than a wholesome religious institution.

However to keep the argument fair and civilized to seek justified or any response for that matter from abdes on this forum, we can keep accusations aside so that, it does not give reason for abdes to divert the attention from the uncomfortable questions.

[ghulam muhammed]

Even Faize Huseini is not behind when it comes to black money/unaccountability. Recently a friend of mine went for Umrah for a week thru Faiz and he was charged Rs.36,000/- but the recipt was issued for only Rs.20,000/-.

[humanbeing]

Dear Adam / Progiticide / Abdes

Please provide your knowledgeable insight into queries raised on this thread

[humanbeing]

Sab Abde neta log chhup gaye he aur chele chapaaton ko aage kar diya he uchhal kuud karne ke liye.

Tum log samajh rahe ho ke is topic par reply nahin karenge to thode dino me apne aap ye topic kahin Backpages me slip ho jayega. Aur kisiko yaad nahi rahega ke kis tarah abde scholars ki haalat khasta ho gayi thi is topic par jawaab maangne par. Sab so-called abde scholars aise gaayab ho gaye jaise ghade ke sir par se seengh.

Jo abde scholars dusre topics par badi dhoom dhaam se message post karte he, unki pant gili ho gayi he is thread par, ye sirf mainstream DB hi nahi dekh rahe balki progressives bhi dekh rahe he aur samajh bhi rahe he ki kis tarah kothari lobby ki daleelein aur doctrine khoklee he.

Islam ki buniyaad me walayat-e-ahle bayt he, aur kothar ki buniyaad me sirf aur sirf nafrat he. Ye baat sab ko saaf saaf dikh rahi he.

[AliRahbar]

Even Faize Huseini is not behind when it comes to black money/unaccountability. Recently a friend of mine went for Umrah for a week thru Faiz and he was charged Rs.36,000/- but the recipt was issued for only Rs.20,000/-.

next time ask him to go by sunni tour, he will be hardly charged 15000 and facilities will be much better.
and yes he will also get the receipt of 15000 ROFL
loser

[alik]

intresting observation!!!
poona devri mubarak-where masoom abdeli maula stays,first floor of the same property is rented to a bank on rent!!!
income from rent??wtf its halal i guess if kothar does it!!!

[ghulam muhammed]

Kothar properties are given on rent to banks even in surat but the icing on the cake is that a few shops situated in glamour bldg, colaba, mumbai are given to people for selling ALCOHOL, the said bldg belongs to kothar. Hence if they dont mind enjoying the income of liquor shop vendors then interest income is too small a thing !!

[humanbeing]

Prolonged silence from Kothari defenders is surprising, they are posting and shouting at other threads, but they have not commented or answered on any of the queries presented on this thread.

@human being: u think he will reply!!

He is right ! Kothari Defenders were upfront showcasing their manipulative knowledge and depth of understanding when it came to justifying their tactics, but when uncomfortable question are presented, there is utter silence. Maximum they can do, throw some religious emotional cop out and divert the topic and feel victorious, how shallow and mediocre their sense of reasoning can get.

Even sayedna saheb’s loyalist agree with financial accountability, but some Kothari defenders, as they may be benefitting from their masters don’t want to comment on their source of illegal income.

[profastian]

Prolonged silence from Kothari defenders is surprising, they are posting and shouting at other threads, but they have not commented or answered on any of the queries presented on this thread.

@human being: u think he will reply!!

He is right ! Kothari Defenders were upfront showcasing their manipulative knowledge and depth of understanding when it came to justifying their tactics, but when uncomfortable question are presented, there is utter silence. Maximum they can do, throw some religious emotional cop out and divert the topic and feel victorious, how shallow and mediocre their sense of reasoning can get.

Even sayedna saheb’s loyalist agree with financial accountability, but some Kothari defenders, as they may be benefitting from their masters don’t want to comment on their source of illegal income.

You will get full information when you posts your receipts here.

[humanbeing]

Profastian !

I m not asking you to present accounts on this forum in lieu of posting of our receipts. If I can say ; neither your are an authority nor have access to provide accounts of local jamat or kothar levels. (Unless you are big shot in kothar with access to financial information)

My question circles around purely with financial matters, which has no connection to emotional, spriritual or religious sentiments in the community. Presenting of accounts shall be a standard regular practice at local jamats as well kothar levels.

Accounts of Upliftment Projects, contructions, Jamat administration
Statistics of Beneficiaries
Surplus or Deficit

Accounts shall be available on request, posted on websites (Quartertly, Half yearly or Annually) Kothar Inc, is not a business enterprise, rather a religious institution which have no business secrets to guard, Many countries have standard formats of books of accounts which can be kept by such non profit religious institutions to organize funds collected.

Even capitalist business enterprises provide accounts to its investors who have pledged trust in the management of the organization. However I don’t intend to compare a business enterprise with Kothar, more ever because it’s a religious institution and very much accountable in financial matters to its followers.

I m not pointing fingers at sayedna saheb, funds from all over the world are collected, managed and expended by Kothari administration, sayedna saheb has bestowed raza and trust on his staff, which we have repeatedly seen has been betrayed by very own men appointed by sayedna saheb. Thus its breach of trust of public and sayedna saheb.

[alik]

profastian-is a ass*****
reciepts kaa achar dalegaa
they looot from people-$1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 zero continues
give back( cant say charity coz its not their earned money)rs1000000.00 us mein bhii itnaa darmaa\

[profastian]

profastian-is a ass*****
reciepts kaa achar dalegaa
they looot from people-$1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 zero continues
give back( cant say charity coz its not their earned money)rs1000000.00 us mein bhii itnaa darmaa\

Abay paise bhi nahi deta aur poochta hai ke hisaab do. Tere baap ka maal hai kia?

[alik]

@ profastian
Nahi baap kaa maal nahi hai mera hai!!!
Bhude baap ke naam pe tu muffy qaid idris malek rip huzefa ash kar rahe hai

[accountability]

A very genuine question asked by Humane being, which will never be answered. we are not asking or challenging the religious authority.
what is wrong or objectionable in providing accounts of sabeel. This is the only thing we are asking for. I think this forum is all about this kind of accountability. Just post the accounts of expenditure on every jamaat website.
every jamat is an autonomous body, registered in respective teritory as a charity organization, with amil being the president and local office bearer.
those amils and jamat office bearers are full of fallability, so why not ask them to be accountable to ones who are financing and supporting the local jamat.

[ghulam muhammed]

those amils and jamat office bearers are full of fallability, so why not ask them to be accountable to ones who are financing and supporting the local jamat.

Majority of bohras want accountability but the reason for they not raising their voice is the blind faith in dai and his zaadas (although a minority form this group) and the fear of getting blacklisted (majority belong to this category).
Blind faith and fear are the two basics on which every cult survives !!

[Al Zulfiqar]

bro gm,

there is another group of abde regressives who openly confess that there are many wrong things happening in our community, religious and administrative, even go to the extent of criticising dai for hunting and murdering wild animals for pleasure and sport, AND YET BELIEVE THAT THE GHAIB NA MAALIK DAI, IS THE HAQ NA SAHEB AND MOJIZA NA SAHEB!!!

care to comment on such hypocrite idiots?

[humanbeing]

Hi Adam / Progiticide

My queries are not asking you to present accounts to me on this forum, I just wish to know your opinion in public on question expressed here. No one is asking your personal accounts or personal POV. But more of a public opinon.


What exactly is the objection / apprehension with providing Accounts of Funds ?


By what justification / logic / reason…. presenting accounts is to undermine authority of sayedna saheb ?

[Fateh]

Profastian !

I m not asking you to present accounts on this forum in lieu of posting of our receipts. If I can say ; neither your are an authority nor have access to provide accounts of local jamat or kothar levels. (Unless you are big shot in kothar with access to financial information)

My question circles around purely with financial matters, which has no connection to emotional, spriritual or religious sentiments in the community. Presenting of accounts shall be a standard regular practice at local jamats as well kothar levels.

Accounts of Upliftment Projects, contructions, Jamat administration
Statistics of Beneficiaries
Surplus or Deficit

Accounts shall be available on request, posted on websites (Quartertly, Half yearly or Annually) Kothar Inc, is not a business enterprise, rather a religious institution which have no business secrets to guard, Many countries have standard formats of books of accounts which can be kept by such non profit religious institutions to organize funds collected.

Even capitalist business enterprises provide accounts to its investors who have pledged trust in the management of the organization. However I don’t intend to compare a business enterprise with Kothar, more ever because it’s a religious institution and very much accountable in financial matters to its followers.

I m not pointing fingers at sayedna saheb, funds from all over the world are collected, managed and expended by Kothari administration, sayedna saheb has bestowed raza and trust on his staff, which we have repeatedly seen has been betrayed by very own men appointed by sayedna saheb. Thus its breach of trust of public and sayedna saheb.

My dear brother how can illegal collected money can be put forward by legal way?Have you any proof that kothar inc. is not a business enterprise rather a religious institution?Its a worlds no.-1 corporate giant bigger then microsoft.