Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

[fearAllah]

6. Aaqib Palanawala, one of the authorities listed above is only approx. 35 years old.

Really? nice finding...

How old was Taher bapaji when he became Dai?

[bohri]

1. Prof. Mehdi Hasan
2. Mulla Taher bhai Lokhandwala
3. Janab Sajjad Hussain KG
4. Janab Peer Ali
5. Janab Aaqib Palana Wala
etc.

Here's some of the details coming in from my sources in India and abroad about these personalities. Since I dont know any of them and never heard of them before, I hope the progs can help verify the information and add their wonderful remarks/comments/addition to the below details to take the discussion to next level:

1. None of the above gentlemen know Arabic as a spoken language. They may be able to read/write but not understand/interpret Arabic as they have not learnt Arabic as part of their religious curriculum. Wonder how they interpret the Quranic verses and which translations they refer to for their meaning? Which means each time someone comes to them for understanding some Quranic verse, they would ask them to wait, quickly go read the translation in the other room, and then comeback and explain the meaning to the person?

2. They were all students of late Ahmedali, hence their knowledge at best is equal to that of their late teacher (which is also doubtful since Ahmedali could not have passed every bit of knowledge he had acquired during his decades of service at Jamea to rookies who did not go through a meticulous religious curriculum).

3. Ahmedali may have received the highest degree at Jamea but that does not mean he was privy to every knowledge and information of Dawat which is not part of regular curriculum with ofcourse the complete & highest knowledge residing in the person of Dai-e-Mutlaq. Hence, these gentlemen know only what Ahmedali may have shared with them. BTW, almost every DB Aamil heading a sizeable DB Jamaat today across the globe is most probably FJ from Jamea with working knowledge of Arabic language both spoken and written besides other faculties in English and other languages.

4. Sajjad KG and Peer Ali are real brothers?

5. All of them only beleive in Dai upto 46th whereas their teacher Ahmedali himself was in the service of 51st Dai for almost 4 decades and 52nd Dai for a few years before he was thrown out of Jamea.

6. Aaqib Palanawala, one of the authorities listed above is only approx. 35 years old.

Prog - Let us assume you are right and that the Dai and his sons speak Arabic and are privy to the original texts. Does that qualify them to unconditional following? In my mind I would listen to their teachings as well as the way they live to determine if their preachings are sound and their living aligns with Islamic principles and the lives of our past Imams, then I could hold them with some respect. However what I see is a Dai who enjoys sitting on a throne - unlike Imam Ali who lived a simple life, A Dai who flaunts his close relationship with Modi, which hurts bohri sensibilities, unlike Imam Hussein who would not compromise his principles, a Dai who enjoys such pleasures as animal hunting and a Dai who encourages family break ups by imposing social boycott. Not to mention the Dai family that rents premises to alcohol businesses and banks. How does the Dai then have any credibility to preach and teach Islamic values?

Unfortunately, his knowledge of Arabic and access to precious texts have not made him very learned!

[progticide]

Some more interesting details are on the way, just hold-on to your chair tightly.

[Humsafar]

Looks like the Dai is at last going to verify the Imam. Hallelujah!!!

[anajmi]

Get the noose ready.

[ghulam muhammed]

Looks like the Dai is at last going to verify the Imam. Hallelujah!!!

He is going to verify HIMSELF !!! To know more, join sabaks and reach upto the final halka.

[bohri]

Some more interesting details are on the way, just hold-on to your chair tightly.

Prog,

You are quite predictable and no doubt you are trying really hard to find faults with those names - which is why you asked their names in the first place.

Save your breath or waste it as you will. As I said, we don't have any unconditional following to any one leader, nor to these leaders make any proclamation of infallibility, access to God or other such purile claims. So your revelations, in proving they are ordinary human beings will not bother us at all!

The Dai's actions are glaring in our face, trumpeted by all his propaganda machinery, so we don't have to dig as hard as you do to show he is an ordinary man after all.

[Adam]

Bohri

As I said, we don't have any unconditional following to any one leader, nor to these leaders make any proclamation of infallibility, access to God or other such purile claims.

If you're a true Prog.
You'll did "unconditional following" to the every leader from the Prophet, 21 Imams and 45 Dais.
And you'll did understand those leaders to be infallible, because they were.

After that, you'll just lost your way, and decided to follow a different system. And now have no one to seek guidance from.

[bohri]

Bohri

As I said, we don't have any unconditional following to any one leader, nor to these leaders make any proclamation of infallibility, access to God or other such purile claims.

If you're a true Prog.
You'll did "unconditional following" to the every leader from the Prophet, 21 Imams and 45 Dais.
And you'll did understand those leaders to be infallible, because they were.

After that, you'll just lost your way, and decided to follow a different system. And now have no one to seek guidance from.

Unconditional following and worshiping is an invention of the current Dai's father and taken to further extreme by his son. Ask your parents or grandparents of the simplicity, humility lived by previous Dais - they'll tell you!

Try taking away the threat of social boycott and then see how many worshippers remain with their hands folded and back bent!

[progticide]

Unconditional following and worshiping is an invention of the current Dai's father and taken to further extreme by his son. Ask your parents or grandparents of the simplicity, humility lived by previous Dais - they'll tell you!

Try taking away the threat of social boycott and then see how many worshippers remain with their hands folded and back bent!

Bohri, fateh, Humsafar and likes,
You guys have become so ignorant due to your hatred that you have forgotten almost everything historical. You have no clue of the practices of the previous Dais and their traditions and sayings and sermons and therefore for everything that you think does not suit your taste you jump up against the current and Muqaddas Syedna. Let me quote a couplet here to just remind you what Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin(RA) wrote for his son Syedna Mohammad Badruddin (RA) who was only 4 years old at the time this was written. This is a nasihat which DBs even today recite regularly and take inspiration and guidance from its invaluable wordings through our Teacher, our Guide.

Ilm na moti Jaro,
Parhva ni hat na karo,
Apna Mulla si Daro,
Kika bhai Jaldi paro.

Refer to the third line, " Apna Mulla si daro". Here Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin saheb is clearly highlighting the importance of the" Teacher" and the respect to be attributed to the Teacher, to his son who would become the 46th Dai.

Do you progs who profess to follow this Dai recite these nasihats of Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin?
If yes, do you honestly attribute the kind of respect that Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin (RA) is ordering to be given to a Teacher?
Do you honestly give that kind of respect to the 5 gentlemen whose names you have quoted above? Because from what you have commented above, it does not appear that you really hold any significant respect for these gentlmen.
So then, the question is where is your Teacher, your Guide, who would command this respect that Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin is talking about in his nasihat?
And what kind of practices are you following where there is no respect for your own Teacher?

So now, before foolishly talking on acts of submission and respect and obedience that DBs offer to their Dai and other Dawat dignitaries, get yourself educated on the historical references to these traditions.

Walayat (1) aur Taharat (2) ka sabaq to abhi parha nahin tum logon ne aur Jihad(7) karne nikal parhe ho. Fools.

[anajmi]

Do you progs who profess to follow this Dai recite these nasihats of Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin?

No. Some of us have found new nasihats.

Barabar Par.
Barabar Par Nahito Gabbar Singh Tari Maa ne lai jaase.
Barabar Par Nahito Boarding School Maa Nakhi dais.
Barabar Par Nahito Dai taara baap ne jamaat bhar kari nakhse.

[Doctor]

Unconditional following and worshiping is an invention of the current Dai's father and taken to further extreme by his son. Ask your parents or grandparents of the simplicity, humility lived by previous Dais - they'll tell you!

Try taking away the threat of social boycott and then see how many worshippers remain with their hands folded and back bent!

Bohri, fateh, Humsafar and likes,
You guys have become so ignorant due to your hatred that you have forgotten almost everything historical. You have no clue of the practices of the previous Dais and their traditions and sayings and sermons and therefore for everything that you think does not suit your taste you jump up against the current and Muqaddas Syedna. Let me quote a couplet here to just remind you what Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin(RA) wrote for his son Syedna Mohammad Badruddin (RA) who was only 4 years old at the time this was written. This is a nasihat which DBs even today recite regularly and take inspiration and guidance from its invaluable wordings through our Teacher, our Guide.

Ilm na moti Jaro,
Parhva ni hat na karo,
Apna Mulla si Daro,
Kika bhai Jaldi paro.

Refer to the third line, " Apna Mulla si daro". Here Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin saheb is clearly highlighting the importance of the" Teacher" and the respect to be attributed to the Teacher, to his son who would become the 46th Dai.

Do you progs who profess to follow this Dai recite these nasihats of Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin?
If yes, do you honestly attribute the kind of respect that Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin (RA) is ordering to be given to a Teacher?
Do you honestly give that kind of respect to the 5 gentlemen whose names you have quoted above? Because from what you have commented above, it does not appear that you really hold any significant respect for these gentlmen.
So then, the question is where is your Teacher, your Guide, who would command this respect that Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin is talking about in his nasihat?
And what kind of practices are you following where there is no respect for your own Teacher?

So now, before foolishly talking on acts of submission and respect and obedience that DBs offer to their Dai and other Dawat dignitaries, get yourself educated on the historical references to these traditions.

Walayat (1) aur Taharat (2) ka sabaq to abhi parha nahin tum logon ne aur Jihad(7) karne nikal parhe ho. Fools.

Progticide bhai,

Molana va aaka va syyedina Abd-a-Ali Saifuddin (r) ki is nasihat ki haqiqat jab jaan loge to Kothar se bezaar ho jaoge (assuming you r intellectually honest). I will be sending a copy of it to Admin to publish it in "Library" section and will PM u when done, do read it without preconcevied notions. Thanks.

[anajmi]

Walayat (1) aur Taharat (2) ka sabaq to abhi parha nahin tum logon ne aur Jihad(7) karne nikal parhe ho. Fools.

Did you know that a shahid doesn't require Ghusl before burial? Did you know the story about the newly wed sahabi who went into battle without ghusl and was guaranteed jannah by the prophet (saw)? When they found his body, it was drenched with water. The prophet (saw) said that the angels had washed his body.

Abde idiots only accustomed to bending and spreading probably have never heard that which is really important in Islam.

[Adam]

No. Some of us have found new nasihats.

Anajmi is such an immature child.
I'm sure The opposition agrees, but none have the guts to say so.
The only one who's voiced anything against Anajmi is Porus (if I remember correctly), but they seem to be best friends now.

Anyways.
"Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?"

Thread has been answered? Shall we move on?
Proggies has 5 gentlemen who are their clerics. They aren't perfect, and they might make mistakes. Which makes the Proggies kind of confused.?

[progticide]

Progticide bhai,

Molana va aaka va syyedina Abd-a-Ali Saifuddin (r) ki is nasihat ki haqiqat jab jaan loge to Kothar se bezaar ho jaoge (assuming you r intellectually honest). I will be sending a copy of it to Admin to publish it in "Library" section and will PM u when done, do read it without preconcevied notions. Thanks.

Doctor saheb,
Assure you I would give it a fair reading and hope that you would not shy away from answering the queries, if any, that I may ask thereafter.

Until then, let me ask you for you honest comment on the information provided by me above about your clerics. Kindly point out which part of the details that has come to me from various sources and posted above is false or over-exaggerated.

[anajmi]

They aren't perfect, and they might make mistakes. Which makes the Proggies kind of confused.?

It is better to be confused than wrong. For eg. we all know that the Dai makes mistakes. His mistake led to the abde idiots getting hammered a few years back. Yet the abde idiots are not confused. Which means they are wrong.

[profastian]

Bohri


If you're a true Prog.
You'll did "unconditional following" to the every leader from the Prophet, 21 Imams and 45 Dais.
And you'll did understand those leaders to be infallible, because they were.

After that, you'll just lost your way, and decided to follow a different system. And now have no one to seek guidance from.

Unconditional following and worshiping is an invention of the current Dai's father and taken to further extreme by his son. Ask your parents or grandparents of the simplicity, humility lived by previous Dais - they'll tell you!

Try taking away the threat of social boycott and then see how many worshippers remain with their hands folded and back bent!

So i gather that proggies dont even follow the prophet unconditionally. Should I take it as the offical progressive position?

[ghulam muhammed]

So i gather that proggies dont even follow the prophet unconditionally. Should I take it as the offical progressive position?

Adam, the hardcore abde says that bohras follow Nahjul Balagha as it is in line with fatimid beliefs. So should we take it as the official abde position ? If so then I will follow this post with some quotes from the book.

[profastian]

So i gather that proggies dont even follow the prophet unconditionally. Should I take it as the offical progressive position?

Adam, the hardcore abde says that bohras follow Nahjul Balagha as it is in line with fatimid beliefs. So should we take it as the official abde position ? If so then I will follow this post with some quotes from the book.

Quote away. But my question still needs anwering. Do wahabis/sunnis/progressives follow the prophet unconditionally? Or they do not follow the things which don't make sense to them?

[anajmi]

The prophet (saw) is to be followed only if his teaching is in line with the Quran. Any teaching of the prophet (saw) that appears to contradict the Quran can be safely rejected. However, it has been clearly established that the Dai's teaching are against the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet (saw). Hence the Dai's teachings should be rejected.

Thanks profastian for liking my post.

[profastian]

The prophet (saw) is to be followed only if his teaching is in line with the Quran. Any teaching of the prophet (saw) that appears to contradict the Quran can be safely rejected.

So the wahabi's (illogical) stance is clear. What about sunnis(barelvis), shias(panjatanis, ithna ashari), progressives(46ers, 50ers) ?

[anajmi]

So your "logical" stance is to follow your leader even if he goes against the Quran? Thank you for that information. We can now safely conclude that you are a kafir and so is your Dai.

[SBM]

The prophet (saw) is to be followed only if his teaching is in line with the Quran. Any teaching of the prophet (saw) that appears to contradict the Quran can be safely rejected. However, it has been clearly established that the Dai's teaching are against the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet (saw). Hence the Dai's teachings should be rejected.

Thanks profastian for liking my post.

I am shocked that Profstian liked your post that means he agrees with you. Anajmi Mubarak for showing the Haqiqi Raasta

[anajmi]

I hate to say this, but it was a trick. I added a couple of lines after the abde idiot liked it. The abde idiots are easy to fool.

[bohri]

Prog said : So i gather that proggies dont even follow the prophet unconditionally. Should I take it as the offical progressive position?

Really Prog! why do you try to draw parallels between the Prophet (pbuh), chosen by Allah and the dai, chosen by a human being?

[Fateh]

Unconditional following and worshiping is an invention of the current Dai's father and taken to further extreme by his son. Ask your parents or grandparents of the simplicity, humility lived by previous Dais - they'll tell you!

Try taking away the threat of social boycott and then see how many worshippers remain with their hands folded and back bent!

Bohri, fateh, Humsafar and likes,
You guys have become so ignorant due to your hatred that you have forgotten almost everything historical. You have no clue of the practices of the previous Dais and their traditions and sayings and sermons and therefore for everything that you think does not suit your taste you jump up against the current and Muqaddas Syedna. Let me quote a couplet here to just remind you what Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin(RA) wrote for his son Syedna Mohammad Badruddin (RA) who was only 4 years old at the time this was written. This is a nasihat which DBs even today recite regularly and take inspiration and guidance from its invaluable wordings through our Teacher, our Guide.

Ilm na moti Jaro,
Parhva ni hat na karo,
Apna Mulla si Daro,
Kika bhai Jaldi paro.

Refer to the third line, " Apna Mulla si daro". Here Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin saheb is clearly highlighting the importance of the" Teacher" and the respect to be attributed to the Teacher, to his son who would become the 46th Dai.

Do you progs who profess to follow this Dai recite these nasihats of Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin?
If yes, do you honestly attribute the kind of respect that Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin (RA) is ordering to be given to a Teacher?
Do you honestly give that kind of respect to the 5 gentlemen whose names you have quoted above? Because from what you have commented above, it does not appear that you really hold any significant respect for these gentlmen.
So then, the question is where is your Teacher, your Guide, who would command this respect that Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin is talking about in his nasihat?
And what kind of practices are you following where there is no respect for your own Teacher?

So now, before foolishly talking on acts of submission and respect and obedience that DBs offer to their Dai and other Dawat dignitaries, get yourself educated on the historical references to these traditions.

Walayat (1) aur Taharat (2) ka sabaq to abhi parha nahin tum logon ne aur Jihad(7) karne nikal parhe ho. Fools.

Salambhai, bhai akl bhi khuda ne di hui nemat hai aur itani hidayat bhi khuda se hi mili hui hai ki usaka ghamand nahi karana chahiye magar istamal to karna hi chahiye.
I am 100%agree with you that with out master or guru we can not get ALLAH.As per Hindu myth" bin gur gyan kahan se aaye?"Each & every person who wants to starts his spiritual journey, must have true spiritual guru who guide him & help him to achieve the goal.Yes our dai is our guru mind well only guru,he guide us in our spiritual journey
My questions to you that why cant we ask our spiritual or religion related query directly to our guru with out any hurdles?
Why we can not meet our guru freely with out money?
when ever my hearts indicate that our dai is our spiritual guru at the same time my mind strongly advocates against my heart that you are rong he is our financial leader only.I personally believe with out guru spiritual journey is not possible.Please guide my mind
As you told about walayat to bhai what are the parameters to measure the true walayat?,fat najawa,? no of feet kissing ?,please guide me
Taharat i know better

[profastian]

I hate to say this, but it was a trick. I added a couple of lines after the abde idiot liked it. The abde idiots are easy to fool.

I would have liked your post even if I had seen the additional lines. The first couple of sentences had me laughing out loud at the stupidity of the wahabis.

[anajmi]

So according to the abde idiots, following the Quran unconditionally is stupidity. Once again the abde idiot clarifies that he is a kafir.

[level_headed]

Fateh -- you said "As you told about walayat to bhai what are the parameters to measure the true walayat?,fat najawa,? no of feet kissing ?,please guide me"
You are right. One of the parameters of walayat is najwa. Maulana Ali was the first person who obeyed Allah's command to present najwa to the Prophet (SAW). He sold off something precious and used the money to present najwa to the Prophet (SAW). He would always present najwa to the Prophet (SAW).

[progticide]

I hate to say this, but it was a trick. I added a couple of lines after the abde idiot liked it. The abde idiots are easy to fool.

Anajmi.
Although I understand your satanic desire to take sadistic pleasure through abusing and ridiculing others, and though it would not make any difference to you to know that no one on this forum is least interested in entering into any discussion or argument with you, still let me suggest that you may do well to restrict your stupidity and interference in every other thread. Your action of derailing topics and maligning individuals and mocking revered personalities (for both progs and DBs) has crossed limits and it is time that your moronic behaviour is subdued.

Your posts are ignored invariably by Progs and DBs alike. You have become a rabid dog who keeps barking on every thread, making no sense ofcourse, but increasingly becoming a source of repugnance and distortion.

Admin - I suggest you take opinion from other members of this forum as well to see if Anajmi should be allowed to continue with his notorious and irritating presence. Free speech and unhindered participation is ofcourse what people on this forum may appreciate, but it cannot be at the expense of civility, modesty and relevance.