Namaz

[like_minded]

If there was a great being who created the whole universe, why should He care, in the least, whether an intelligent being, of His creation, acknowledges Him or not?

Imagine someone who does you a favour (granting just for the sake of argument that the "creator" has done us some favour)and then comes to tell you, "unless you praise and worship me, I am going to burn you in fire!" Would you not assume that your man must be deranged, or at the very least mean-spirited? Surely you would feel trapped and unfortunate if you could not escape this fate, and had to conform to this man's wishes and prostrate yourself to him. Muslims perform all these signs of subjugation five times a day, at least.

[Shahu]

Quranic Salaat is not the same as Namaz. Please read this article and you may go througgh other to find out more.

http://www.quraniceducationandresearch. ... s_AS10.htm

[Akbar Petiwala]

Brother Like_Minded

Assalamu Alaykum.

Questions for you.

When a human wants to create something, he sets parameters for its functions.

So, why you object about Allah s.w.t.'s condition for His creations ?

Did you allow your kids (if at all you are blessed) to misbehave?

Have you not thrown anything useless in the garbage lately?

May Allah s.w.t. guide you. Aameen.

[anajmi]

like_minded,

I am assuming that you do not pray at all. Now, if that is the case then God obviously did not force you to pray. Would you agree?

So if he didn't force you to pray, why do you think he forced me to pray? He didn't. I do it because I don't want to burn in hell and of my own free will.

[like_minded]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Akbar Petiwala:
[QB]Brother Like_Minded

Assalamu Alaykum.

Questions for you.

When a human wants to create something, he sets parameters for its functions.

This is where we go wrong!! why do we want to create something? cant we just co-exist without creating anything?? In order to create, we set parameters and end up CONDITIONING our minds, A conditioned or unconscious mind always seeks to be THERE and in the process loses the precious NOW.

The end result is pain, misery, greed, impatience, anger, disappointment, jealousy, hatred...

[like_minded]

Originally posted by anajmi:
like_minded,

I am assuming that you do not pray at all. Now, if that is the case then God obviously did not force you to pray. Would you agree?

So if he didn't force you to pray, why do you think he forced me to pray? He didn't. I do it because I don't want to burn in hell and of my own free will.

I agree with you that he dint force me to pray, neither has he forced you or anyone to pray, You pray because you SEEK, You SEEK because your mind is CONDITIONED, and a conditioned mind is full of fear and is always seeking to be THERE not NOW.

If only we UNDERSTAND that it is a GAME, mind plays to satisfy itself, The MIND actually never wants to accept the PRESENT, it always wants to be THERE and THERE actually does not exist, Its always NOW and so the struggle continues..

The mixture of PAST (conditioning) and FUTURE (being there) never allows the mind to be NOW (present)...

[Akbar Petiwala]

Brother Like-minded,

Assalamu alaykum.

Brother, your "now" is also conditional.

Could you please define "NOW" without a reference to past and future? How would you define "goal"?
How would you live "now" without setting a single goal?

The life of all living being is conditional. Brother, learn wisdom of life from holy Quran. Read Nahjul Balagah. Seek guidence from Allah s.w.t. and not from the denier of His existence and oneness.

Allah hafiz.

Sincerely,
Akbar

[like_minded]

Brother Akbar

NOW cannot be conditional, because the TIME factor is not involved in NOW.

Dont we realize that by setting GOALS (future) we are losing the precious NOW? Instead of setting GOALS (future) if we are present NOW, then we will realize that there is nothing to achieve (GOALS) and this realization of NOW is a GOAL.

If you say the life of all being is conditional, you are right, and thats precisely why we have pain, miseries, disputes, violence etc etc, in our so-called modern society.

There is nothing like learning wisdom, because again thats equavilent to conditioning, true wisdom is realization, stepping out of the pattern of conditioning be it religious, nation, caste, race whatever, and understanding that nothing can ever be understood, thats the fun. Please try it to find out.

[anajmi]

like_minded,

One of the major differences between humans and animals is that animals live exactly like you want humans to live. They live in the NOW without any concept of the FUTURE or the PAST. Personally, I do not want to live like an animal.

[Akbar Petiwala]

Brother Like-minded.

Assalamu alaykum.

Bhai, ever since your life have formed in your mother's womb, you are bounded with dimensions - viz. time, space, etc.

If time factor is not involved in NOW then it means standstill or death or animal(as Ajnabi has mentioned in his reply to your post).

Remaining standstill is not a natural thing. is it?

Even animal care about past, present and future.

So, what kind of living form you would like to live? Animal being the lowest. I guess.

Even your understanding of the vague concept of NOW from so called master of the art of living life is conditional on past Knowledge/experience.

As far as my understanding goes : to live now and free yourself of conditions is to deny experience and learning.

Bhaisaheb, Sukr karo, we have the best book on the art of living - the holy quran. Please do not look any where else before you dwelve deeper into the wealth of Quran and our madhab. You are a musk deer

Allah hafiz

Originally posted by like_minded:
Brother Akbar

NOW cannot be conditional, because the TIME factor is not involved in NOW.

Dont we realize that by setting GOALS (future) we are losing the precious NOW? Instead of setting GOALS (future) if we are present NOW, then we will realize that there is nothing to achieve (GOALS) and this realization of NOW is a GOAL.

If you say the life of all being is conditional, you are right, and thats precisely why we have pain, miseries, disputes, violence etc etc, in our so-called modern society.

There is nothing like learning wisdom, because again thats equavilent to conditioning, true wisdom is realization, stepping out of the pattern of conditioning be it religious, nation, caste, race whatever, and understanding that nothing can ever be understood, thats the fun. Please try it to find out.

[like_minded]

Actually there is nothing like PAST and FUTURE, It is always NOW, We dont want to accept it, thats it, Can we go back to PAST? or can we fast-forward our lives and go to FUTURE?? We cannot, It is always NOW.. NOW..NOW, understanding and accepting NOW, is nothing but co-existing.

Can you ask an animal or an oak tree, what time is it? If it answers, The answer would be NOW..

I am not going to judge that animal being is the lowest, because if it was, then why in first place was it there ??(created)

Knowledge is not of PAST or a monopoly of some individual or a group, It does not recognize itself with form or time, like how we humans do, It is there PRESENT.

[anajmi]

The reason a human can give a different answer from an animal or a tree is because it has a better brain than either of them. Besides only one who is "out of his mind" would actually ask the time to an animal or a tree.

I am assuming that your thinking is similar to an animal or a tree. Now this is my question to the other folks on this board who are having a discussion with you. When was the last time you discussed anything as important as your past, present and future with an animal or a tree? I am sure the answer will be a resounding NEVER.

Of course by the time you read this post it will be PAST so it doesn't exist and by the time I read your post it will be PAST again so it won't exist so you might want to think about that, but then that will bring your mind into question. Am I loosing my mind? Isn't that the point!!

[like_minded]

Brother anajmi,

I would surely like to live a life of an animal or a tree, with total acceptance to everything, It would be in total harmony, We as Humans live the same life, but you know whats the difference?? The mind!! which judges, analyses, draws conclusions, this is good that is bad, this is happiness, that is pain... and in the process just keep looking for something to quiten the mind, what do we get ultimately?? Misery!!!

Brother, I am thankful to you, because you are teaching me right now, because I can clearly see you ego, and that reminds me of my own, I am telling you this because I am observing my ego, and you know what, I can watch my own ego, just watching it, dissolves it.

Your post is surely PAST for you, but is it not PRESENT for me?? right now?? When you read perhaps sometime later, it becomes PAST for me, but PRESENT for you, So you see... there is always PRESENT.

[JC]

And that is why the GIFTS are called PRESENT ..!!

I agree with Like-Minded. Most of us live in Past and worry about Future and in that process forget PRESENT. We should concentrate on NOW.

Namaz is an age-old concept. That and others religions equivalent of Namaz were introduced and implemented to make people surrender to authority. It was to cement the concept that Power lies somewhere else and you not only have to surrender, but SHOW that you surrender. This was also meant to bring discipline and offcourse there were and are other benefits of Congregations. There are disadvantages too, biggest you implant Crowd Mentality.

Today all concepts of All Namazs in all religions have become redundant. That was a time-bound concept, which has ended. I need not PRAY namaz in conventional sense, though I would love to attend an All-Party Gathering, Congregation at the times of my convenience - i should not be forced into Friday Prayers or Sunday Service.

[anajmi]

like_minded,

Your post is surely PAST for you, but is it not PRESENT for me?? right now?? When you read perhaps sometime later, it becomes PAST for me, but PRESENT for you, So you see... there is always PRESENT.

Well said like_minded. You've just destroyed your own theory of "past is nothing" and "future is nothing". Humans are where they are today because they learnt from their past (or didn't learn from it) so that they can make their future better than their present. If you refuse to read my posts written in the past and if I refuse to read your posts written in the past we'd be better off living naked in the jungle.

Besides, you are trying to teach me about your personal philosophies not to change my present but to change my future. My present is what it is and can't change.

So before you throw these senseless philosophies around, think about them for a few minutes. And then if you decide you are still better off "out of your mind" know, that Humsafar will be there to keep you company. However, let me assure you, that if you decide to live like an animal in the jungle, even Humsafar is not going to accompany you.

[SBM]

To add
YESTERDAY IS HISTORY
TOMORROW IS MYSTERY and
TODAY IS REALTY

[jawanmardan]

Brother like minded God has given us the free will to choose to become greater and more than our base desires.

We can find aspects of Gods creation, all around us; we can reflect upon our world; we can meditate upon our condition, prayer and worship is another means to bring us closer. So that we can realise our link to God.

Prayer is not passive worship of Gods ego.

It is a means to an end so we can move closer to our creator, in the words of Maulana Rumi “we are like a reed, that has been torn from the sea, searching for a way back”

Peace

[like_minded]

Originally posted by anajmi:
like_minded,

Your post is surely PAST for you, but is it not PRESENT for me?? right now?? When you read perhaps sometime later, it becomes PAST for me, but PRESENT for you, So you see... there is always PRESENT.

Well said like_minded. You've just destroyed your own theory of "past is nothing" and "future is nothing". Humans are where they are today because they learnt from their past (or didn't learn from it) so that they can make their future better than their present. If you refuse to read my posts written in the past and if I refuse to read your posts written in the past we'd be better off living naked in the jungle.

Besides, you are trying to teach me about your personal philosophies not to change my present but to change my future. My present is what it is and can't change.

So before you throw these senseless philosophies around, think about them for a few minutes. And then if you decide you are still better off "out of your mind" know, that Humsafar will be there to keep you company. However, let me assure you, that if you decide to live like an animal in the jungle, even Humsafar is not going to accompany you.

Bro anajmi,

Please see clearly what I am pointing at... When You say "senseless philosophies", please tell me clearly what do you mean?? Because there are no philosophies here, so why are you seeing it and then judging it as senseless??

It means you are having a particular philosophy already set in your mind and thats the reason you see mine as senseless, isnt it??

For sometime, dissolve yourself, dissolve all the so called philosophies which is already set in your mind, or in other words, please dissolve your ego.... you can do that, cant you?? Or your ego, tells you, what the hell is this?? Is LM out of his mind?? So, yes, I admit, I am out of my mind, I admit I am senseless, a fool, I am you, Lets merge into each other, cant we? Lets dissolve this anajmi and LM and become one!! I know I sound like an idiot, Yes I am one, Let us become ONE where there is no identity.. LM is anajmi, anajmi is LM, and now let us look at it...

When the mind says, PAST is nothing, It means the MIND is bringing the PAST to PRESENT, When it says FUTURE is nothing, It brings FUTURE to PRESENT, Then mind understands the phenomenom, this is AWARENESS, If mind says PAST is PAST, It remains there,, If it says FUTURE is FUTURE, It has already gone there.... then what does it see??? Because actually mind is at PRESENT, then there is frustration... isnt it??

For example:
You are struck in a traffic jam, you are getting late to attend your office, You are struck, thats it, admit you are struck, and as the traffic flows, you can move ahead,, admit THAT, But no, MIND wants to be at office NOW, How can it be?? when you are struck in a traffic jam?? So you look around and realize, you are not the only one struck, but there are many others struck in the same traffic jam, This realization is AWARENESS, then your mind is PRESENT, It knows its going to reach the office late, It says.. yeah, so what?? Can I do anything about it?? I CANT!! so the frustration is not there anymore. You just carry on, keeping the traffic in MIND, you get a way, you go... with the traffic... No effort,, you sail effortlessly and reach your office, may be 30 minutes late, but so what?? you reached and thats important, isnt it??

[like_minded]

Read stuck... instead of struck

[like_minded]

Originally posted by jawanmardan:
Brother like minded God has given us the free will to choose to become greater and more than our base desires.

We can find aspects of Gods creation, all around us; we can reflect upon our world; we can meditate upon our condition, prayer and worship is another means to bring us closer. So that we can realise our link to God.

Prayer is not passive worship of Gods ego.

It is a means to an end so we can move closer to our creator, in the words of Maulana Rumi “we are like a reed, that has been torn from the sea, searching for a way back”

Peace

Evolution is happening every second... It happens, nothing can stop it, Desires are there, accept them whole-heartedly, and they dont remain desires anymore, they become your NATURAL SELF, where pure energy flows, without control... it simply flows and takes you where you want to, If it doesnt, again accept it, see... simply accepting it will give you peace,, peace, because YOU are peace.

Prayer is when one accepts everything as ONE, then there is prayer, true prayer, because in that ONE, one see everything, everyone, the whole world... It surely has no methods, Its again realizing the ONENESS in everything, that is prayer, Brother, prayers are happening every second.... simply with awareness.. with total consonence, with total surrender to the PRESENT.. It is PRAYER... It seeks nothing, it simply gives back what its already got... that is energy...

We dont have to move closer to God, because we are already there, God is here, please see...

You may think, I am talking like a mad man, but I am not... I am you, You are me, where is the madness??

[like_minded]

Originally posted by omabharti:
To add
YESTERDAY IS HISTORY
TOMORROW IS MYSTERY and
TODAY IS REALTY

CORRECT: And you keep learning from it.... every second, Learning cannot stop, If it stops, then mind comes in and says... Ok Brother, you've learned all this, now let me take control.. Mind is Ego, understand the mind (ego) and it vanishes, then learning continues again.... it goes on.. there is no THE END here.

[porus]

porus: LM, I fail to understand what you are saying.
LM: Why do you seek understanding? That is the mind playing a trick on you. Just be and live in the present?
porus: What do you mean? Am I not already 'be'ing and in the 'present'?
LM: Fantastic. You are beginning to understand? Isn't it?
porus: But I thought you just implied that I should not seek understanding?
LM: Correct. You and 'Understanding' are one. It is all Oneness.
porus: So, if I do not seek 'understanding', I am not seeking 'me' either, as I and 'understanding' are one.
LM: Correct. You need not seek to "understand" or know yourself. They are the same thing. Just be in the present.
porus: But didn't you just agree that I was already being and in the pr........

[like_minded]

Originally posted by porus:
porus: LM, I fail to understand what you are saying.
LM: Why do you seek understanding? That is the mind playing a trick on you. Just be and live in the present?
porus: What do you mean? Am I not already 'be'ing and in the 'present'?
LM: Fantastic. You are beginning to understand? Isn't it?
porus: But I thought you just implied that I should not seek understanding?
LM: Correct. You and 'Understanding' are one. It is all Oneness.
porus: So, if I do not seek 'understanding', I am not seeking 'me' either, as I and 'understanding' are one.
LM: Correct. You need not seek to "understand" or know yourself. They are the same thing. Just be in the present.
porus: But didn't you just agree that I was already being and in the pr........

Brother Porus,

I seek understanding because the world is burning,, because people around me are killing each other in the name of religion, caste, community, yes... I seek understanding., How do I understand this mindless world., when I start to understand my own self, because all these qualities which are hell bent on splitting and burning my world are in me., so I start... there is no end here... I just go on.. every second.. I am always learning or understanding.

[like_minded]

Understanding = Action

[like_minded]

When understanding is action, then you see the world around you and simply connect.

[anajmi]

like_minded,

I am having a hard time understanding. If past is not in the present then how can the future be nothing in the context of what the mind has understood? Now you say that past is nothing if it remains in the past but past will always remain in the past because the future of past is similar to present and the past of the future is actually the present. Now if the past and future become one then what they represent in the present but in the present the presence of now implies lack of understanding of the mind in the belief system.

Here I want to say that if one tries to understand the complexities surrounding that which cannot be understood without taking into consideration the time when one tries to understand them, one may completely miss the boat. Now missing the boat is not nearly as bad because after you miss the boat it is in the past.

If you become one with the boat then it won't matter if you've actually missed it. Here I am not talking about the boat built of wood or steal but that which is one with the mind and the heart. Accepting the fact that the boat is one with you results in you accepting the fact that no matter where you might be in the past, present or future you can never miss the boat and that results in everlasting peace.

[anajmi]

Now everlasting peace cannot last forever since if it were supposed to last forever then it will have to last in the future. But when you read this post your future will now become my past and the everlasting peace has now lasted in the past. The only way to explain this phenomenon is to take into consideration what happened in the past does not stay in the past but is brought into the present. But bringing it into the present requires planning and by the time the planning is completed the present that you were planning to bring the past into has now itself become the past. Hence the planning to bring the past into the present should actually plan to bring the past into the future so that by the time the plan is executed the future is the present and plan is successful.

[anajmi]

Now in order to understand what I am saying it requires oneness between the poster and the postee. One who posts and one for whom the posts are written. They need to become the posteree. The reason this needs to happen is pretty simple. What I post, it is read in my past but I am posting it so that it can be read in the future. Now unless my posts are read my present is a waste. The only way to ensure that my present is not wasted is to become one with the one for whom the posts were posted in the first place. Hence LM has to be anajmi and anajmi has to be LM. But if LM is anajmi and anajmi is LM why does anajmi have to post anything for LM? This question can be answered by taking into consideration people like Humsafar who are out of their minds and hence becoming one with them would be extremely difficult unless you can become one with your mind. If one becomes one with one's mind then one can easily be one with the one who is out of one's mind. Now take a minute to think about it. But if you take a minute to think about it then you are already in the past.

[Humsafar]

Anajmi,

Great verbal gymnastics. Give your troubled mind a break, you're clearly out of your depths (oops! mind) here. You've a knack for quoting Yusuf Ali, and seem to have honed inot a fine art. Please stick to what you are good at.

Now, awaiting your smart-alecky response. And better make it funny.

[anajmi]

Humsafar,

You need to give me sufficient material for a funny response. like_minded has given me so much ammo that I can go on and on and on. And I had a lot of fun coming up with those three posts. Pretty funny don't you think?