Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

[humanbeing]

Bro Biradar

Scholar or not, I am free to present my views and you are free to disagree or prove me wrong. I am open to change my views and opinions with irrefutable logic and truth. Anyhow, I dont want to compare Imam Ali's situation with that of SMB or SKQ, this to be fair to Imam Ali and SMB/SKQ situation. the challenges and tribulation faced are different. furthermore, Intentions of Imam Ali and SMB / SKQ differ as well.

You commented on my personal stand, although that is not the part of the debate here. I love bohra community and contribute to this community and its beautiful food loving, cheerful apna wala in my own humble ways. my participation is in the community affairs. Not bowing, bending, feet kissing flattery of kothar.

being social and participative in bohra community does not make me an Abde or kothari sympathizer. niether I am greasing kothari corrupt machinery with fat najwas, ikraams or hoobs. My minuscule contribution which at max I consider as defunct taxation similar to the one I pay to corrupt government. Rest I strive to share my blessings with needy and deserving. Another contribution to reform would be to have a kind and patient dialogue with my social circle and help those who realize at tiniest possibility that something is wrong. I face laanats, ridicule, taunts. I wish to be with people who care and can care ! Another contribution to reform is to question, enquire, object and counter excessive and illogical demands of kothari jamat.

[james]

Lastly, we followers of SKQ (tus) never indulge in the vilification and laanat baazi like the "iblisi toli" of MS. Such silly and stupid comparisons of 123 etc. can only be expected from the intellectually void and defunct kothari mafias with a sole objective is ayyashi and creating a generation of morons ...

[humanbeing]

well that is it ? muffy followers call this laanat baazi from SKQ camp ? .. one must hear SMS camp's colorful language from top to bottom ranks, many such examples, but a recent one is badri lacewala's rantings ... morphed videos, slandering, ridiculing.

SMS camp is away ahead of the game in laanat baazi and anger mismanagement ! fateh mubeeen !

[objectiveobserver53]

THIS is supposed to be an example of laanatbazi? I was present in Houston for the Badri Lacewala speech. Compared to that, this looks like a love letter!

Sorry James. After what you have done to these folks, you deserve a lot worse. This person is being downright polite!

Lastly, we followers of SKQ (tus) never indulge in the vilification and laanat baazi like the "iblisi toli" of MS. Such silly and stupid comparisons of 123 etc. can only be expected from the intellectually void and defunct kothari mafias with a sole objective is ayyashi and creating a generation of morons ...

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[ajamali]

Agree 100%. People who are IN the MS camp call MS far worse. I have no hesitation in calling MS a douchebag and I am in his camp for all the right reasons - friends, family and food!

James just be thankful SKQ people don't call the douchebag the names his own people call him!

THIS is supposed to be an example of laanatbazi? I was present in Houston for the Badri Lacewala speech. Compared to that, this looks like a love letter!

Sorry James. After what you have done to these folks, you deserve a lot worse. This person is being downright polite!

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[think_for_yourself]

^^^^ ajamali while I find your cynicism a little disturbing, I find your honesty quite refreshing. I hope that friends, family and food are enough for you! If you ever need more, you know where to come

[ajamali]

^^^^ ajamali while I find your cynicism a little disturbing, I find your honesty quite refreshing. I hope that friends, family and food are enough for you! If you ever need more, you know where to come

Very kind of you to invite. I like the website and admire the sincere efforts to spread knowledge. Unfortunately, this is an either/or situation and I have to act in my self-interest.

[UnhappyBohra]

Lastly, we followers of SKQ (tus) never indulge in the vilification and laanat baazi like the "iblisi toli" of MS. Such silly and stupid comparisons of 123 etc. can only be expected from the intellectually void and defunct kothari mafias with a sole objective is ayyashi and creating a generation of morons ...

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I notice that the message is devoid of references to four legged creatures That alone makes it far more respectful than the crap dished out by MS people to SKQ people. Those Dawedaar ki kahani videos were a fine example!

[SBM]

the telephone number provided has links to NY and Cairo Is this one SKQ siblings?

[qjbj]

Why don't you call the number and see whom you get? Looks like James is an MS insider who got the message from SKQ insider. James, being a nasty person, purposely posted that with the number showing.

[Tayyeb]

James, being a nasty person, purposely posted that with the number showing.

I noticed that as well and I was a about to comment on it, but then thought lets see how low these guys can go. since both parties are playing dirty games we should now sit quietly and enjoy the show keeping emotions away. MS gang will remain ahead in dirty games thats for sure.

[Wajid]

James, being a nasty person, purposely posted that with the number showing.

I noticed that as well and I was a about to comment on it, but then thought lets see how low these guys can go. since both parties are playing dirty games we should now sit quietly and enjoy the show keeping emotions away. MS gang will remain ahead in dirty games thats for sure.

Salams to all,

Bhaio, How can you paint everybody with the same brush. What dirty games have you seen us getting engaged in ?
I question the mental acumen of our friend James in disclosing private telephone numbers of somebody on an open public forum.
I hope some decency in communication.

Fi AmanIllah

[Tayyeb]

What dirty games have you seen us getting engaged in ?

W.salam,
Yes nothing so far from SKQ team which can be classified as dirty but james and his brothers are playing these tricks from long time now.

[Wajid]

What dirty games have you seen us getting engaged in ?

W.salam,
Yes nothing so far from SKQ team which can be classified as dirty but james and his brothers are playing these tricks from long time now.

Salaams ,
I do not know James & his brothers but would give him a benefit of doubt, classifying as a genuine mistake. Hope he comes forward acknowledging his error.

Fi AmanIllah

[Ozdundee]

Reading comments and looking into the culture, mental frame of comments shows a lot of commonality between SKQ and SMS diehards

Words around reference to Awal Thani, Signifcance of symbolic items like going to janaza, fear of aggression , talwar whatever that means in real sence MUmbai is not Yemen, nass, we are still talking about a nephew, uncle, son of preceding Diai or mazoom all related, teenage village folk insults and accusations, the benchmark of comparison between the two and then somehow justify to very complex historical schism events 1400 years ago all nicely wrapped for internal consumption of community gossip with little facts, reference or credible evidence to show why one is better. Some of this shows weakness of succession within a very privileged family vs selection on merit or capabilities. This leaves bohras to choose the lessor of the weak rather than the best. But the where are the best as the mainstream are never in competition as look at the pictures ...the handholders are related or those who pay to be in the presence and never a challenge to leadership

People need to fear that it is likely that the case will not go on forever, SMS is much established than he was two years ago and should this family dispute get resolved , powersharing agreed and merge where it will leave the people who are taking sides. Therefore the fenceseaters like many who enjoy the culture but don't care who is on the throne are wise as they have nothing to loose or gain

[ghulam muhammed]

Biradar,

Your earlier views on the Chandabhai Galla case and the 51/52 Dais are surprisingly quite contradictory to what you stand for today........

by Biradar » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:09 pm

Please see the article:

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/news/83/97/Sa ... l_article/

This is a first-hand account of the case by a key lawyer involved in the case. That should clarify the story of what really happened. In many ways this case was a turning point in the community. The da'i made sure, after this, that his hold on the community was so complete that no one would even dream of bringing him to court again. The present da'i has continued this practice. The extreme control he exercises not only on the physical appearance of his followers, but even what they think is evidence of this. No one, except the progressives, dares to challenge him in courts or in any other way. Sad, but a major means of securing justice has been snatched away.


by Biradar » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:23 pm

The advocate-general conducted the case himself and hence his version is bound to be more accurate. However, reading the actual court proceedings will be the ultimate record of what happened. These are not easy to get, specially in the West. I will try and get hold of them and post them here, if possible.

It is interesting that the Misbah article you posted said that the intention of the "enemies" was to prove that S. Taher Saifuddin was not the rightly appointed da'i due to a break in the naas. However, as far as I can see from the official reports there was no such motivation. Hence, I think it is easy for the orthodox to claim victory: then invent false reasons for why cases are fought and then it is easy to declare victory on non-issues. However, one has to keep in mind that intentions of a person and the official charges he brings about may indeed be different.

Even if you were to show the complete court proceedings to a fanatic bohra, he will still say that what S. Taher Saifuddin did was correct and he did win the case. Religious people have blinders on them and no matter how much you argue and what evidence they show they will not be convinced. Also, in the ultimate analysis, historical developments show that the da'i's position became stronger and the progressive position weaker. So that itself will be a sign of victory. Fanatics lack the finesse to distinguish power from truth. For them, specially nowadays, power is truth. You will find more pleasure in banging your head on a brick wall.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4997&p=105138&hilit ... se#p105138

[Wajid]

... Therefore the fenceseaters like many who enjoy the culture but don't care who is on the throne are wise as they have nothing to loose or gain

Bhai Oz Salaam,

If there is no action, there may be no fence left to enjoy.

We are not taking the the religion for enjoyment as many would conveniently conclude. For the cause we believe in, we have made significant personal sacrifices without desire for recompense from anybody except for the pleasure of Allah. A handful of families out in open is bothering them so much that one can only say about SKQ (tus) ...

Kuch baat hai ki hasti mit-ti nahi hamari
sadiyon raha hai dushman daur-e-zamaN hamara

To seek a change, there is an obligation on all to take a stand.

I re-quote one of my favorite stanzas from Allama Iqbal :

Qoum Mazhab Se Hai, Mazhab Jo Nahin, Tum Bhi Nahin
Jazb-e-Baham Jo Nahin, Mehfil-e-Anjum Bhi Nahin

In the end, all I can say is :

وَذَرِ الَّذِينَ اتَّخَذُوا دِينَهُمْ لَعِبًا وَلَهْوًا وَغَرَّتْهُمُ الْحَيَاةُ الدُّنْيَا وَذَكِّرْ بِهِ أَن تُبْسَلَ نَفْسٌ بِمَا كَسَبَتْ لَيْسَ لَهَا مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ وَلِيٌّ وَلَا شَفِيعٌ وَإِن تَعْدِلْ كُلَّ عَدْلٍ لَّا يُؤْخَذْ مِنْهَا أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ أُبْسِلُوا بِمَا كَسَبُوا لَهُمْ شَرَابٌ مِّنْ حَمِيمٍ وَعَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ بِمَا كَانُوا يَكْفُرُونَ

Leave alone those who take their religion to be mere play and amusement, and are deceived by the life of this world. But proclaim (to them) this (truth): that every soul delivers itself to ruin by its own acts: it will find for itself no protector or intercessor except Allah: if it offered every ransom, (or reparation), none will be accepted: such is (the end of) those who deliver themselves to ruin by their own acts: they will have for drink (only) boiling water, and for punishment, one most grievous: for they persisted in rejecting Allah.

Fi AmanIllah

[Ozdundee]

WAS Wajib Bhai thank you

what would you prefer sympathy and praise or criticism and ideas

One will make you happy another probably successful.For happyness I am the wrong counter. I have medals and bruises too but I am victorious that's what counts. Those who loose also give medals for bravery but what's the point it looks good on history books.

People have a tendency to think they have all answers are absolute, perfect and underestimate everything around them , but same way history is littered with failed statuses.

[humanbeing]

Wajib Bhai or SKQ follower Bhai or Ben

Can you please tell us about life in SKQ camp and if you can answer following queries ':

Does SKQ have QadamBosi Bethaks ? what is the scene like in such qadambosi bethaks ?
Does SKQ place a white rumaal over anything ?
What is the Nizaam for Ramadan ? Does jamaat charge masalla tax per person ?
How is accountability managed ? does jamat local or dawat-e-hadiya entity publish following accounts

Income & Expenditure statement ?
Assets and Liabilities balance sheet ?
Salaries and Benefits (wazifaa) of Amils and other jamaat members ?
Organization Structure of Local jamat and central administration ?

What are the rules of Ziyafat ? Hadiyet ? Mafsusisyet ?

Which of the following taxes does SKQ administration collect

Ikraam (ramazan, muharram)
Najwa-tus-Shukr (Eid Al Fitra, Eid Al Adha)
Silatul Imam
Haqqun Nafs
Nazar Mukaam
Hajj-e-Badal
Wajibaat
Sabeel
Laagat
Hoobs
Iftetaah (Inaugration charges)

[Wajid]

WAS Wajib Bhai thank you

what would you prefer sympathy and praise or criticism and ideas ...

All we expect is that people who have still some mental faculty active - bi-hamdillah, please take a stand.

There are those who are completely disenchanted with the Dawoodi Bohra Fiqh and have altogether left the fold - Although I do not attest that position, I respect their honesty here.

Then there are those who would want to be a part of the DB fold but do not attest anything the MS and company is representing. My appeal is to those people - take a stand.
What legacy will we leave for our future generations. "We knew but did not take a position - we were looking for our convenience". The community is headed towards the self destruction if the path is not changed.

Fi AmanIllah

[Tayyeb]

The community is headed towards the self destruction if the path is not changed.

Salam bro Wajid,
actually community is already in self destruction mode, and as the time will pass more people will be aware how STS clan fooled people....to be honest this dai concept is already flawed and the belief of people is already shaken and finally broken, now people are just interested in jamaat food and gossips. (few people are in still in denial but as the story will fade they will get into their senses).

Salam brother Wajid, I know you have already said you dont belong to SKQ family but looks like you have been with his family from long time now...what ever may be the case, I have a question for you and I hope you will reply...

now lets get to the reality, basically Dai is some one who is under authority of Imam, so SKQ must have some sign from Imam which can prove him Dai? lets not get in to debate what SMB spoke about SKQ because its all flawed and both parties have 1000 proofs to prove them self correct, so lets talk about the Authority from Imam himself which can clear whole thing. waiting for a clear reply.

[Wajid]

Wajib Bhai or SKQ follower Bhai or Ben

Can you please tell us about life in SKQ camp and if you can answer following queries ': ...

Salam bhai humanbeing,
It all boils down to the question on accountability...
I remember of a riwayat where Sayedna Ismail Badruddin (ra) refused taking Salaam from Bawa Mullah Khan just because he missed presenting some accounts. Bawa Mullah Khan was so upset and nervous that he stayed inside the masjid contemplating before Allah all night until the matter was solved the next month. This is what should be expected from the "khidmat guzaars" and recorded by the deeds of our hudaats kiraam ... Nothing more to add.

Zakat :
Unlike Kothar who looks for more and more of Wajebaat collections every year, you must know that in accordance with the Islamic Shariat, SKQ (tus) has instructed that Zakat is the ONLY farizat. Fatemi Dawat in fact published the calculator for the benefit of Mumineen to calculate the Zakat (minimum due). Again, there is no basis for increasing the Zakat every year - there are certain basic rules to follow ... Please feel free to visit the Fatemi Dawat Website.

Charity and the use of funds collected :
Fatemi Dawat actually publishes the annual report every year. You are free to visit the site and download the file for yourself.
Moreover, SKQ (tus) has been running a charity under the name of Zahra Hasanaat for the past 20 years. This fi-sabeelillah charity operation was never discussed within the bohra circle and none of the bohras were made aware by kothari gundas. http://www.zahrahasanaat.org/about.aspx
Please check-out the above link.

There is no established Jamaat / Masjids (all are controlled by the MS and gang). There are not enough of brave souls out in open - not yet. May be one day. InshaAllah - again Allahu Aalam.

Khuda Hafiz

[james]

The trolling nature of many of the regulars on this forum never ceases to amuse me. Here I am offering concrete definitive proof against the lies posted by Wajid and trolls like humanbeing,UnhappyBohra,etc have tried to absolve the Qutbuddin side by making it look like a competition between the insults. Pathetic and downright stupid of them to attempt something like this.

As for the likes of Wajid,qjbj,etc trolling about the concern of the number on the screenshot,they are being informed that it was an auto message sent to many Bohras right after the funeral of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA.I am sure it must a burner phone used for this nefarious purpose.After all it isn't beneath the kidnapping clan of Qutbuddins.

Wajid,

Instead of trying deflecting tactics by asking me to acknowledge a nonsensical issue about a number from two years ago,you would do well to acknowledge the intellectually hollowness of the Qutbuddin clan.After all you have been showed them comparing silly and stupid things like 123 etc.

[james]

Biradar,

Your earlier views on the Chandabhai Galla case and the 51/52 Dais are surprisingly quite contradictory to what you stand for today........

What's surprising about the Flip Flop nature of Biradar? Soon the Oxford is gonna mark 'Biradar' synonymous with hypocrite.

Look no further than the last page on this very thread.

If you need help finding it,feel free to ask.

Hint;!,2,3.

[Moiz_Dhaanu]

James , Do you wish to have your Circus Ring Master ,DMBS, get thrashed and insulted by making us "Re-count" all his flip-flops and goof ups again
DMBS = Dawedaar Mufaddal Bhai Saheb

[UnhappyBohra]

Did the king of trolls call me a troll? Let me remind that someone that I did not visit this site until after MS started making a joke of our faith and community. James and his lackey friends have been here for years leading mumineen astray under the guidance of the jokers who eventually took over.
And why blame the Qutbuddins for name calling? There are many within our own Dawat on the MS side, who call him names right there in his Markaz, masjids and mawaids! Myself included. And our side started it all with those horrible videos. Just face it James. MS and his cronies win the trophy for the dirty tactics. And it has backfired because that was the beginning of the end for so many of us. We are disgusted with your behavior towards a person of rutba. We fold our hands before MS but in our hearts we abhor him for killing our souls!

[humanbeing]

It all boils down to the question on accountability...
I remember of a riwayat where Sayedna Ismail Badruddin (ra) refused taking Salaam from Bawa Mullah Khan just because he missed presenting some accounts. Bawa Mullah Khan was so upset and nervous that he stayed inside the masjid contemplating before Allah all night until the matter was solved the next month. This is what should be expected from the "khidmat guzaars" and recorded by the deeds of our hudaats kiraam ... Nothing more to add.

Thanks for your response bro wajid. However it does not answer all or most of the questions I presented.
Jamat members blatantly refuse to provide accounts stating that they are only accountable to their DAI. Very convenient ! this denial was very much present at the time when SKQ held the 2nd highest position in Daawat. Your mention of riwayat sounds similar to sugar coated useless response to a direct question of accountability towards community people.

Charity and the use of funds collected :
Fatemi Dawat actually publishes the annual report every year. You are free to visit the site and download the file for yourself.
Moreover, SKQ (tus) has been running a charity under the name of Zahra Hasanaat for the past 20 years. This fi-sabeelillah charity operation was never discussed within the bohra circle and none of the bohras were made aware by kothari gundas.

Thanks for the insight, did SKQ publish to public such reports while he was mazoon under SMB rule ? why was Zahra hasanat not popularized during SMB rule for good long 20 years. SMB was healthy, hearty, sound and sharp mind, audible and mobile and does not seemed under control of anyone. Do you imply that it was SMB who did not popularize this scheme or do you imply that after SMB lost power due to his health limitations the scheme was shadowed by his rivals ?

What I know from how kothar has been operating since many years, there are no individual owners of any upliftment scheme, any initiative of philanthropy is to be dedicated to the raza and work of Kothar-DAI. Mazoon SKQ could claim and run a scheme of his own parallel to similar and other upliftment scheme of SMB !

In these scenarios, SMB appears pretty much helpless in running Daawat, who could not control intra-family rivalries. And these helplessness could be continuing in Dai’s office. SMS puppeted by his brothers and SKQ by his sons, and influential wealthy abde bhakts !

[ajamali]

James you offered that text message as proof of laaanatbazi and we did not accept that as proof! There was no "khuda ni laanat" in it! How is that "stupid?" Offering it as proof is stupid.....

[ajamali]

Check out Burhanuddin Moula's special nazaraat on his mazoon. This is the person for whom we burst into laanat multiple times in every majlis!

http://youtu.be/wuqanMBAkS0

[Tayyeb]

Check out Burhanuddin Moula's special nazaraat on his mazoon. This is the person for whom we burst into laanat multiple times in every majlis!

http://youtu.be/wuqanMBAkS0

yes soo much nazarat on mazoon sahab, but in the same waez SMB could not do open nass on rightful candidate? We all know mazoon is and should be the next candidate in line, but now things went too wrong, and do you really think MS will leave this position just like that?