Another SCAM??????

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Above Average Bohra
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Re: Another SCAM??????

#121

Unread post by Above Average Bohra » Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:36 pm

Only people who are enlightenend will be able to follow a lifestyle led by a code. Praying 5 times a day is not easy for anyone to do it. Those that are weak dismiss it as a meaningless ritual and those that are enlightened accept it as a part of their lives.
The reason you remain Muslim is an irrational childhood attachment to what your parents have told you about their version of Islam.
If that were the case then everyone would've been following just one religion - that of Adam, or everyone would've remained a monkey.

What about those that converted to Islam when they were adults? For eg. the prophet started following Islam when he was 40 years old and Hazrat Ali, when he was a child, so, the prophet was rational and Hazrat Ali was irrational and brainwashed?

Danish
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Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Another SCAM??????

#122

Unread post by Danish » Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:03 pm

Originally posted by Aareef:
Danish

Here's a tip for you: For definition of Allah as per Islam see the surah of Kul-howallah-ho-hud...
I think this is the good point to start from instead of wasting google resources...
Aareef, the word Allah is an Arabic word and has nothing to do with Islam. It simply means "The God" contricted and capitalized from al ilah (the god). It is not a proper or personal name of the Creator of our universe. Even Arab Jews, Christians and other arabic speaking denominations utter the same. All attributes pertaining to the GOD of universe are man-made, conjured up and fantasized to reflect a supreme man-made deity via imagination and inspiration. These attributes are highly questionable and bears no truth or facts. The feminine of Allah is Allat and its plural is Allihatun.

Aarif
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Re: Another SCAM??????

#123

Unread post by Aarif » Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:57 pm

Danish,

You again missed the main point as usual... The surah that I referred to defines allah and not his name... His name can be any and I don't care... This surah defines the Islamic concept of god... Since, you said that salaat is a pagan ritual this surah is the first one that contradicts your philoshopy or other idiots who paste links on google...

If Islam is all about pagan rituals then there should be a statue of god with hands feet etc... If he can be put in any form then people will talk about his attributes like his face, hands etc... E.g. hindus make idols of Ram and they call him son of Dashrath...

So you can trace lineage of RAM through Dasrath and his ancestors... Islam says that Allah is nobody's father or son... He is not from anybody and anybody is not from his lineage... This represents an unique concept of god... Christians refer to christ as son of god... Islam rejects that philoshopy as well...

The point is that do you really even know the basics of Islam??? My guess is a sure NO unless you prove otherwise... (which would be really surprising looking at your posts)...

accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Another SCAM??????

#124

Unread post by accountability » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:16 pm

For eg. the prophet started following Islam when he was 40 years old and Hazrat Ali, when he was a child, so, the prophet was rational and Hazrat Ali was irrational and brainwashed?
You mean, that Prophet was not muslim, when he was born. That is not true, all prophets and messengers are born muslims according to quran. But islam only completed in Muhammed (SAW)'s time.

Have you heard about satanic verses. By that I dont mean the book by sulman rushdie. if not then try to research and find out what they were.

accountability
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Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Another SCAM??????

#125

Unread post by accountability » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:20 pm

The point is that do you really even know the basics of Islam??
Aareef: what are the basics of islma?

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Another SCAM??????

#126

Unread post by Aarif » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:47 pm

A/C: What I have mentioned in my post to Danish is the basic concept of Allah as per Islam... If u will read my previous posts and his in this thread you will understand what I mean...
Also, Islam does not support pagan rituals as mentioned by Danish... Now that is not so hard to understand or is it???

Above Average Bohra
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Re: Another SCAM??????

#127

Unread post by Above Average Bohra » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:50 pm

accty,

Explain your post to porus, not to me.

Above Average Bohra
Posts: 362
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Re: Another SCAM??????

#128

Unread post by Above Average Bohra » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:53 pm

accty,

No, I don't know what the satanic verses are and don't have the time to research. If you care enough, post your knowledge.

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Another SCAM??????

#129

Unread post by porus » Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:06 pm

all prophets and messengers are born muslims according to quran.
accountability,

I am aware that there is a hadith in which Prophet reports that all children are 'Muslims', and it is their parents who convert them to non-Muslim religions. Since all Prophets were once children, according to hadith, they were also born Muslims, so were you and I.

But according to Quran? Please identify the ayat for me.

porus
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Re: Another SCAM??????

#130

Unread post by porus » Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:08 pm

Correction:

I am aware that there is a hadith in which Prophet reports that all children are born 'Muslims'.

porus
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Re: Another SCAM??????

#131

Unread post by porus » Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:10 pm

accountability,

My posts were about enlightenment experiences. Are you a Muslim because you were enlightened or because you were raised by your parents as such?

Danish
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Re: Another SCAM??????

#132

Unread post by Danish » Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:06 am

Aareef, the question is not about missing the point or missing in action. The question is about the concept of religions. What gives Islam the right to define GOD? From where and how did they come to that conclusion? Is it a FACT? Has anyone on earth including the so-called prophets seen, heard or met the Creator of our Universe? Heck, what or who exactly is GOD? Majority of the Muslims believe that Allah is the real proper name of the Creator of our universe, but sadly they are fed jargons into their brains day-in and day-out and become helpless, mindless slaves of their master thugs.

As I mentioned earlier, the notion of God is only a figment of our imagination and a personal matter. You need to further research, study up and understand how religions came into existence (both monotheistic and polytheistic), the stone age, the dark age and the golden age in relations of our modern era and Islam. Besides, it is equally very important to research and understand Greek and Roman philosophy and methodology including Zoroastrianism, petra, babylon, kaba blocks, jinn blocks, idols and idolworshipping acts that essentially paved way to Judiasm, Christianity and Islam. Religions are all part and parcel of idols, idolworshipping acts and bogus beliefs.

Through generations, these religions twisted, turned, manipulated and innovated tremendously that today no one really knows the REAL TRUTH. There is too much falsehood mixed with truth and the naive, the ignorants and the illerterates blindly believe whatever they are told and whatever came along through generations with changing hands, written materials and oral narrations. The mullahs, the leaders and the mighty rich were quick to take advantage for their own selfish genes and lure people into their crooked cocoons. It is no wonder we have millions of cults all over the world, each claiming superiority over others and within their own religions. One such superfluous cult is Dawoodi Bohra within the fold of Islam, not to mention the Alavis, Jafferis, Sulemanis, etc. Religions have caused much of the chaos, hatred and bloodshed, and Islam regurgitates within and around it by forcing unprecedented doctrines. Religions are for foolish people who have nothing better to do but to rant and mock about their supreme deities and the jargons that come with it.

It is for these very reasons, I left all religious beliefs and became a humanist. I admire nature and live by reality. My life and path is dictated by Nature and directed by the circumstances and events therein. Even the Quran and gazzilion other spiritual books emphasizes on reflecting and contemplating upon the signs of the heavens and earth. Well what are the signs and where do they come from. Obviously Nature/Reality. Now think about who built the Nature/Reality and all that is within it. People should meditate to discipline and elevate their minds and tend to the necessities of survival to live a meaningful and purposeful life.

Above Average Bohra
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Re: Another SCAM??????

#133

Unread post by Above Average Bohra » Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:54 am

I can say for myself that I am a muslim because I was enlightened. otherwise I would've been a Syedna feet kissing bohri or a kafir.

Humsafar
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Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Another SCAM??????

#134

Unread post by Humsafar » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:26 pm

Arif,

How you labour under received wisdom. You accept the revealed religion of Mohammed as true and perfect and then try your damnedest to justify it. Let’s try to deconstruct your ideas:
How did you came to a conclusion that there is god and we have to attain salvation???
Nobody is saying this. The conclusion that there is God (variously described as the divine, the ultimate reality, the ground of being) has to be experienced by you personally. You don’t have to accept it on anyone’s say-so. It is not an idea, concept or doctrine that can be explained and transmitted.
So the bottom line is that everybody starts with some assumptions.. Nobody reinvents the wheel all the time...
Not in the case of spirituality – that is if you are after the real thing. Each one of has to re-invent the wheel. Authentic spirituality or transformation of consciousness can only be experienced and cannot be understood intellectually. You can talk about religion till all the prophets come home but you’ll be none the more spiritual for it.
But having said that the next question that arises is which other religion came up after Islam which has proved that it is better then Islam...
This is nothing but your Muslim ego, your tribal pride speaking. If you were born a Hindu, I’m sure today you would me singing the praises of its ancient wisdom as found in the Vedas and Gita. Islam was a movement for change responding to the particular needs of that Arabian society at that particular moment in human history. Given the mood and temper of the times Islam told its story in mythical and biblical terms – but for all practical purposes it was nothing more that an attempt to reform the pagan tribes.

Countless other movements have come after Islam which told their story in more secular terms. To name a few: The Enlightenment and age of reason, the spread of positivist, scientific thought, the industrial revolution, the spread of democracy, the liberation movements against colonial rule, and today in our time the global movement against climate change. Every succeeding movement takes us to a higher, wider, deeper level of consciousness. As our consciousness evolves along with our knowledge, our circle of care and compassion expands. Today we have a better understanding of the Web of Life, and the concept of Gaia which describes the earth as a living, breathing self-regulating organism.

Imagine if Prophet Mohammed was our contemporary and were to reveal the Quran today, do you think this modern/postmodern Quran would be exactly the same as the one he revealed in the 7th century Arabia?

I don’t think so. Although the 21st century Quran would continue the unending narrative of the human condition and the imperatives of peace, justice, morality and equality but in its more prescriptive aspects it concerns would be more world-centric, more “Green”, more in keeping with the UN charter of human rights, more in tune with heightened consciousness of our time. It would denounce our self-destructive lifestyle and economy that has imperiled our planet, it would denounce the military-industrial complex and runaway corporate capitalism, the sham democracies and the oppressive and authoritarian socialist regimes and other contemporary evils.

The point is every age needs a new Quran that speaks to and emblazons the evolved truths, the ever widening circle of care, compassion and consciousness of its time, and show us humans – the ever flawed species – a path to redemption.
There was a Neuro surgeon white lady from houston who went for haj. She was a christian first and then became a muslim.
If a neurosurgeon becoming Muslim validates Islam then a Muslim leaving Islam must invalidate it. These factoids do not serve any purpose except, perhaps, to puff up the chests of parochial muslims.
But I believe that namaz is not just thanking allah.. It has lot of other ingrediants... It is like a ready made recipe provided by prophet which worked for him...<
That is exactly the point. There’s no ready-made recipe for real awakening. And how do you mean “it worked form him”? In what sense? If you’re talking about his enlightenment, his communion with God, it probably was the result of his meditation, his retreat into the caves of mount Hira where he used to spend a lot of time by himself.
If Islam is mere rituals why did it lasted for 1400 years and why there are more muslims then ever before inspite of the fact that it is more difficult to follow Islam as compared to other religions...
Again, this is not an argument but a statement of misplaced pride. Christianity has lasted longer than Islam and there are more Christians than Muslims. Given your logic, Christianity is better than Islam.

amils
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Re: Another SCAM??????

#135

Unread post by amils » Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:11 pm

----some minds are like concrete ----thoroughly mixed up and permanently set--- the futility of it all----oh!!!the agony of literal thinking.

Aarif
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Re: Another SCAM??????

#136

Unread post by Aarif » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:35 pm

You need to further research, study up and understand how religions came into existence (both monotheistic and polytheistic), the stone age, the dark age and the golden age in relations of our modern era and Islam.
Danish,

How do you propose to do this study??? Nobody for sure knows what actually transpired in history and we can only rely on existing literature... Now again this literature according to you is higly controversial when it comes to religion and everybody thinks that he is right.. Now you say you are a natural person... Nobody is artificial unless a robot.. So how do you prove that you are more natural then me??? How do you prove that what I think is wrong or what Islam teaches is wrong unless you have personally met god... Also, just because u have not met god it does not mean that he does not exist...

Humsafar,
Not in the case of spirituality – that is if you are after the real thing.
How do you know what is real thing??? Have you experienced it??? Even if you say yes then who confirmed that it is the real thing...
If a neurosurgeon becoming Muslim validates Islam then a Muslim leaving Islam must invalidate it. These factoids do not serve any purpose except, perhaps, to puff up the chests of parochial muslims.
It does not validate Islam.. It just gives a positive hint that even after 1400 yrs if the so called literate people who know the difference between rituals and religion coming from highly advanced countries are accepting Islam then the relgion is derfinitely something more then ritual...
Again, this is not an argument but a statement of misplaced pride. Christianity has lasted longer than Islam and there are more Christians than Muslims. Given your logic, Christianity is better than Islam.
Islam is the most difficult to follow out of all the other religions... If it is mere rituals people would have given it up by now... Christanity on other hand is much more flexible... You do not have to pray 5 times a day, you can booze, eat pork etc... So it is easy to believe its lasting effect on earth but difficult in case of Islam...

Humsafar
Posts: 2623
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Another SCAM??????

#137

Unread post by Humsafar » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:53 pm

How do you know what is real thing??? Have you experienced it??? Even if you say yes then who confirmed that it is the real thing...
Sages, mystics and spiritual seekers down the millennia have said that transformation of consciousness or knowing you true Self constitutes true spirituality, a direct path to the ground of being. Even Prophet Mohammed is believed to have said, “He who knoweth his own self, knoweth God....Learn to know thyself.”

Have I experienced it? Even if I have, you should not take my word for it. Don’t accept it until you experience it yourself.
It does not validate Islam.. It just gives a positive hint that even after 1400 yrs if the so called literate people who know the difference between rituals and religion coming from highly advanced countries are accepting Islam then the relgion is derfinitely something more then ritual...
First of all, please lose this obsession with “literate people”. Literacy or lack of it has nothing to do with anything. Prophet Mohammed was illiterate and so were so many other mystics in history and yet they were fully realised beings.

Again, it’s so desi, third-world mentality to be impressed by “advanced countries”. To be technological advancement does not mean they are advanced in all other aspects of life. Modern life has sucked the soul out of these societies and left them in spiritual wilderness, and traditionally they have looked to the East for spirituality. More than Islam these so called “literate people” are reverting to fundamentalist Christian movements, and falling prey to the purveyors of New Age gibberish.

The point is not whether they can tell the difference between religion and rituals but whether they tell the difference between religion and spirituality. Most people can’t – literate or otherwise - and that is the issue here. One more thing, if this neurosurgeon was black and from Ethiopia, I bet you wouldn’t be holding her up as a trophy for Islam.
Islam is the most difficult to follow out of all the other religions... If it is mere rituals people would have given it up by now... Christanity on other hand is much more flexible... You do not have to pray 5 times a day, you can booze, eat pork etc... So it is easy to believe its lasting effect on earth but difficult in case of Islam...
So Christianity has more lasting power and more followers because it allows booze and pork? Never heard that one before.

Aarif
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Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Another SCAM??????

#138

Unread post by Aarif » Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:27 pm

Humsafar,

Don't take everything that I say literally and play with it...

Christanity is 600 yrs older then Islam...

West has always been more powerful then the east in the past few centuries... The british, french etc. ruled almost the entire globe and converted people into their religion... In India most of the christians who were converted by these missinories were untouchables or as per the Hindu called Shudra...

Anyways the examples I gave were to tell you that at present Islam is the most difficult religion to follow... If it is mere rituals without any meaning then atleast its decline would have started.. But today you see more and more muslims and not only by birth but getting converted by choice...

Now lets switch gears... How do you know that there is no spirituality in Islam??? Are you saying that no muslims ever had any spiritual experience following Islam as prescribed by prophet??? What are the factual basis of your argument??? And if a muslim attains spirituality by following Islam will you dismiss it??

Also, remember education opens up your mind.. Whether it is religion or anything else... And it has nothing to do with white or black... So if the lady was Ethpian but a Neuro Surgeon I will give her the same importance...

If you see in bohra community it is the educated people who are able to see the farce and ask questions (most of them if not all)... The illiterates still treat Syedna as god and worship him..

Humsafar
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Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Another SCAM??????

#139

Unread post by Humsafar » Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:22 pm

Arif,

I never said that Islam is mere rituals with no meaning. Please read my posts again, in fact, I've said that there is spirituality in Islam (as in all religions) but it remains buried under commandments, codes and rituals and is ordinarily inaccessible to most practitioners. Besides, the emphasis is always on rituals and on following the literal text of the Quran at the expense of its spirit and spirituality.

Even so, Islam does not provide the tools to achieve real spirituality or transformation of consciousness. And maybe it is unfair to even expect that from it. It was basically meant as a guide for pagan Arabs to help them lead a good, moral life. In its prescriptions it provides no mechanism for transcendence. That's why sufis, the Islamic mystics, ignored the formalism and absolutism of Islam and devised their own techniques to commune directly with the divine.

As for education, I concede that there is some merit in learning the three Rs but beyond that education in most cases is nothing but a means first, to socialise people to the truths and realities of dominant culture and, second prepare them to serve and live in that culture.

To say that education opens up the mind is a very general, open-ended statement. It doesn't mean anything. I've seen highly educated people believing in stupid things uttered by godmen and I've seen illiterate women ridiculing the same godmen as frauds and tricksters.

No amount of education will help unless we begin to think for ourselves, and begin to question the truths given us, or, in other words, challenge the tyranny of the given.

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Another SCAM??????

#140

Unread post by Danish » Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:49 pm

Originally posted by Aareef:
Danish,

How do you propose to do this study??? Nobody for sure knows what actually transpired in history and we can only rely on existing literature... Now again this literature according to you is higly controversial when it comes to religion and everybody thinks that he is right..
By your writings you seem to be an intelligent person but your concerns displays your naiveness. It’s like teaching little kids how to research, study and do their homework. Concepts and belief systems are the doctrines while physical and riutalistic performances are the acts. Both are intertwined and personified to bring about a religion in relations to man-made idol(s). Encyclopedias and historical literatures give universal generality based upon given collective data, archeological findings, pre and post existences, etc. since time immemorial. One cannot assume to study a specific religion and call it quits unless you read up on the foundations in which religions are built and how their existence molded, manipulated and innovated from time to time till where we are today. You can witness this in your own tiny Dawoodi Bohra cult for instance. It has too many fragrances and garlands today. You seem to hesitate to learn and study about other cultures and religions, stuck and bent upon Islam and then bring about concerns.
Now you say you are a natural person... Nobody is artificial unless a robot.. So how do you prove that you are more natural then me??? How do you prove that what I think is wrong or what Islam teaches is wrong unless you have personally met god... Also, just because u have not met god it does not mean that he does not exist...
I am not talking about humans and robots but concepts, beliefs and pagan rituals as being unrealistic and illogical. What you and all religionists believe is out of the norm, superfluous, conjectural, fiction and fanciful.

The italic portion in your quote above is not only silly but disturbing (no pun intended). In other words what you are aimlessly claiming then that Muhammad must have personally met the Creator of our universe, conversed with HIM and bought about a religion called Islam and a book named Quran? Phew! Where is your evidence that Muhammad was directed by this God and became HIS messenger? Why the need? What makes you think that this God must be a HE, a male religious chauvinist? Did you listen to and understand the video link I gave earlier? If Quran is the best and final book that HE can come up with for all times as vehemently and unconditionally claimed, then I'm not at all impressed and truly feel sorry for such a religious man-made God. The hadiths are nothing more than he-said she-said trauma produced by some unscrupulous thugs.

Finally, I do not claim that my Creator does not exist but rather I believe in the NOTION that there must be something or someone, whether independent or as one whole entity, that made up our cosmological universe and nothing more nothing less, period.
Islam is the most difficult to follow out of all the other religions...
What in the name are you talking about. Islam has too many unnecessary and illogical jargons bought about by their holy books and mullahs that has not only tarnished and degraded the name of Islam but have made life miserable and difficult for themselves.

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Another SCAM??????

#141

Unread post by Danish » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:46 pm

Originally posted by Aareef:
If you see in bohra community it is the educated people who are able to see the farce and ask questions (most of them if not all)... The illiterates still treat Syedna as god and worship him..
Even the highly educated and intelligent people treat Syedena as god incarnate and worhip him in succession as they come regardless. There are too many fanatics out there and sadly in my own kin who keep pestering me into it. It is mindboggling even after giving them enough dose of reality but to no avail and after all countered by baraat and death threats. Do you know why and what good is their intelligence and education if they can't comprehend some basic rules of living a righteous and purposeful life?

Above Average Bohra
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Re: Another SCAM??????

#142

Unread post by Above Average Bohra » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:36 pm

Humsafar,

I am hoping that you don't want everyone that thinks for himself to think like you.

Besides, how does one prove that he has attained spirituality? You want a note from him?

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Another SCAM??????

#143

Unread post by Aarif » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:45 pm

What you and all religionists believe is out of the norm, superfluous, conjectural, fiction and fanciful.
Danish,

You are changing the target everyday.. First day you dismissed Islam as a Pagan religion... Then you went on to Allah's name in both the genders and then you moved on to spirituality...

You know something your entire theory to me looks superficial and fictional... Hence, I can say the same things for you what you are saying for religions...

I did not see any clear path in terms of thinking from your posts.. This is because your replies are extremely vague to each and every query of mine...
I never said that Islam is mere rituals with no meaning.
This is what u r accepting now..
I submit that Islam fir most is just rituals.
This is what Porus said

So far you were agreeing with him... Now you have suddenly changed gears... But then this is good news... Because what you are saying now is very similar to what I have been arguing throughout.. I never said that by just following the rituals blindly one can attain spirituality... My main point is that if there is something called spirituality then it can be acheived staying in Islam and following it in the best possible way as well...

So if I can acheive spirituality by remaining a muslim and following ISLAM then how can Islam be just a religion of ritual... Now if you agree to this then it proves that it is not...

Also, regarding education it is my personal opinion to which you might not agree and that is fine...

Above Average Bohra
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Another SCAM??????

#144

Unread post by Above Average Bohra » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:29 am

Have I experienced it? Even if I have, you should not take my word for it. Don’t accept it until you experience it yourself.
That is the problem with you. You are not going to take anybody's word either, so what's the point? Yes I have experienced it, had a little help along the way, didn't have to re-invent the wheel. If everyone has to re-invent the wheel, then the only thing we will have is the wheel, never the car or even the bi-cycle.

Humsafar
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Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Another SCAM??????

#145

Unread post by Humsafar » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:20 pm

Good for you Anajmi. If you think you're enlightened, more Light to you. BTW, "re-inventing the wheel" was not my analogy. Even so, what it means is that each one of us have to work out our own awakening, it does not mean that each one of us has to re-discover or re-invent the techniques on how to attain that awakening. The paths are there and each one of us have to walk to reach the goal. No one can take you there, carry you there. No prophets, no messiahs can help. The walking has to be done by you and me and anyone else you cares to reach the destination.

Humsafar
Posts: 2623
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Another SCAM??????

#146

Unread post by Humsafar » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:36 pm

Arif,

If you can achieve spirituality within the suffocating confines of a formal religion, good for you, too. Institutional religions help one understand the divine and the universe from an intellectual or even emotional level, which is just scratching the surface. They do not provide the tools to help you know the truth at an experiential level. And unless you experience the truth, religion remains an intellectual game of commandments and riutals, of my god and your god, of my religion better than your religion.

Those who have actually seen the light and the truth do not really care about religion and its doctrines and its false egos.

Aarif
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Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Another SCAM??????

#147

Unread post by Aarif » Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:34 pm

Those who have actually seen the light and the truth do not really care about religion
Now we don't want to start the discussion all over again... Do we? ;)

Humsafar
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Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Another SCAM??????

#148

Unread post by Humsafar » Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:17 pm

Arif, I'll not even not respond to your inane comment. If you so insist, you may have the last word.

Above Average Bohra
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Re: Another SCAM??????

#149

Unread post by Above Average Bohra » Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:16 pm

Humsafar,
The paths are there and each one of us have to walk to reach the goal. No one can take you there, carry you there. No prophets, no messiahs can help.
Precisely. If the prophets could fix everyone then Abu Jahl, Humsafar and porus might've been believers too. The path is there, imaan, salaat, roza, zakat, hajj, but no one can force you on it. You need to decide for yourself. You have and so have I.

Danish
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Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Another SCAM??????

#150

Unread post by Danish » Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:11 pm

Originally posted by Above Average Bohra:
The path is there, imaan, salaat, roza, zakat, hajj, but no one can force you on it.
You mean the path of the ignorants, illiterates and the brainwashed.

A God whom you call upon, worship, exalt and revere day-in and day-out and then spend billions by traveling all the way to Mecca living in lavish hotels and comfort, just to pay your respect to the God who seems to be locked up and invisible in an enclosed building where Muslims circumvent it seven times, kiss its walls, run amock a hill up and down, throw pebbles at some stone devils, slaughter animals on altars, drink zamzam (chemically treated, filtered and refrigerated water) from underneath, eat mud (khaki shifa), loudly call upon HIM to let HIM know that you are there as if the God was deaf, etc., etc., and finally spend foolishly on shopping to bring back the cherished “holy and goofy” stuff for yourselves and others. As if this was not enough, the entire Muslim ummah bows and prostrates towards this very locked up invisible God from all corners of the world just to remind HIM that you haven’t forgotten HIM and pray back to pay back by proclaiming all that HE has commanded. :( To top it up, many get trampled, severely wounded and killed each year during these pagan rituals. Such is the ferocity, silliness and savageness of this enlightened path. :roll: