What has reform movement achieved?

[true_bohra]

Most reformists never use foul language, and almost always respectful towards Dai.

[/quote]

This is a serious irony. Majority of the members on this forum are reformist and we all are well aware of their language and comments.

and if you call this as respect to the Dai, then please, we dont want this type of respect for our Dai.

[seeker110]

Respect a man for his actions, curse a man for his actions.

[true_bohra]

My point is proved. So do not utter bull shit that you have respected Syedna TUS.

Time and again I have said that this forum is full of hate where you find no respect for the DB belief and the doctrine that we follow. And you would never acknowledge Syedna TUS so respecting him cannot be expected from you

and as far as cursing is concerned, curse comes when people suffer. We are not the ones who are suffering in the world. Our Dai has given us a good life and a proper method to live it and for this we are grateful to Allah

[seeker110]

Any pictures or video to prove dai has given people good life? What about all the picture that prove otherwise.

[true_bohra]

good life is not portrayed on pictured but is felt in our souls. When Dai is concerned in giving good life. YES HE HAS GIVEN A VERY GOOD SOCIAL, ECONOMICAL AND CULTURAL LIFE.

My post says it all and I do not need pictures to prove it.

[seeker110]

Sometimes I hang around stupid people just to have fun. If we get together we both will have fun. You do know they have cameras on cell phones, show us your good social, economical and cultural life.

We are all born ignorant, one must practice a lot to remain stupid.

[true_bohra]

GM bhai posts a lot of pictures. You may have your inferences drawn from there..

[humanbeing]

TB

Your sweeping generalization of bohra are prosperous under guidance of kothar leadership is flawed. You are only seeing the merry make-believe pictures/videos or unsubstantiated claims dished out to you in bayaans or broadcasts in local masjids or townhalls by kothar media.

It is also insensitive to sweep the genuine bohra needy issues under the carpet assuming they are minority cases due to few corrupt office holders in jamats.

Bohra community is imploding into its own limits. Bohra community is becoming an exclusive club for rich and wealthy only. it Is ironical that so called educated bohras are not seeing the segregation and legitimization of class/caste system in bohra faith similar to those in Hindus.

One can understand the argument, that poverty cannot be completely eradicated. But there are blatant scams and misappropriations happening to so called fund and schemes touted at upliftment of bohras.

You are blindly accusing reformist of abusive language, wherein there are ample foul mouthing orthodoxed abde members on this forum. In fact one can find many short tempered abde sayednas in jamaat / dargaahs and other offices who resort to hurtful taunts and remarks towards commoners who do not submit to their diktats. Even a sight of a bohra not keeping a beard invites ridicule from abde sayednas (how immature).

and as far as cursing is concerned, curse comes when people suffer. We are not the ones who are suffering in the world.

This is where I feel abdes are delusional. Suffering and Happiness is part of life as Allah wishes. Happiness does not mean sin-free and suffering does not mean cursed.

Open your eyes, ears and heart to those bohras who are suffering, because kothar is busy filming a make believe world for delusional abdes !

[true_bohra]

I know suffering and happiness is part of life but when it comes from Allah. Curse comes when some one discomforts you and make you suffer for something. Syedna TUS has never made us suffer for anything.

It is a myth that bohra community is becoming an exclusive club for rich. I myself am a commoner but have never felt downtrodden or excluded of rights. And till date I have not seen any caste system within community as pointed by you and comparing our society with that of Hindus,

I accept that there would be foul language from some mumineen but look what reformist have spewed on this forum. Ideologies have been challenged, Imam's (AS) occultance is questioned, Maula Ali AS is put in comparison with with Holy Prophet PBUH where we all know their respective maqaams, Dai is abused, His health is made a joke here.

You say so much about humanity and all. Does this thing do not come to scale of humanity when you abuse Dai and his health.

.

[Maqbool]

And till date I have not seen any caste system within community

Keep your eyes open when you are in the masjid for namaz or vaez or majlis. The cream class (who have paid a handsome amount are all gets first suf or front row. This is not a cast system then what is it?

[zinger]

Maqbool bhai, agree, they pay extra so that they get to pray in the first suf, get the thaal first etc, but honestly, if you ask me, they are fools to be doing that.

I would much rather sit in the back, away from the prying eyes of everyone.

This Lailatul Qadr, while people were running to sit inside the masjid, i was much happier to sit outside in the sehn, the courtyard.

It was a little noisy and busy, what with all the kids around, but it was cooler and more comfortable.

besides, why should it matter if one prays in the first suf or the last, or even outside the main masjid. Chill bro, some people have money to waste and egos to feed. let them do it

[hsnhussain]

besides, why should it matter if one prays in the first suf or the last, or even outside the main masjid. Chill bro, some people have money to waste and egos to feed. let them do it

Brother zinger,
Here in kuwait everyone is forced to pay since last three years for praying in masjid or the premises outside.
Either you have to pay forcefully or pray at home.

[Qutbi-Hero]

And till date I have not seen any caste system within community

Keep your eyes open when you are in the masjid for namaz or vaez or majlis. The cream class (who have paid a handsome amount are all gets first suf or front row. This is not a cast system then what is it?

Rich people most definitely get preferential treatment in our community - that is the way of the world due to Shaytaans influence on it.
You see the same happening in most communities, both Muslim and Non-Muslim.
You see it happening in Business and Politics and in pretty much every aspect of life today.
Corruption is everywhere, and it will get worse for us all... unless we fight it!

[Qutbi-Hero]

Brother zinger,
Here in kuwait everyone is forced to pay since last three years for praying in masjid or the premises outside.
Either you have to pay forcefully or pray at home.

I've heard this about Kuwait - how much are people forced to pay bro?
Also, is it true that the Arabs are giving DBs a lot of problems lately?

[zinger]

besides, why should it matter if one prays in the first suf or the last, or even outside the main masjid. Chill bro, some people have money to waste and egos to feed. let them do it

Brother zinger,
Here in kuwait everyone is forced to pay since last three years for praying in masjid or the premises outside.
Either you have to pay forcefully or pray at home.

Damn!!! (pardon my language but could think of no other word to say it)

[Maqbool]

Maqbool bhai, agree, they pay extra so that they get to pray in the first suf, get the thaal first etc, but honestly, if you ask me, they are fools to be doing that.

I would much rather sit in the back, away from the prying eyes of everyone.

This Lailatul Qadr, while people were running to sit inside the masjid, i was much happier to sit outside in the sehn, the courtyard.

It was a little noisy and busy, what with all the kids around, but it was cooler and more comfortable.

besides, why should it matter if one prays in the first suf or the last, or even outside the main masjid. Chill bro, some people have money to waste and egos to feed. let them do it

I was just replying to TB for his claim about non exist of class systems in our religion.

I don't think those who pay to get titles are fools but I feel that they are misguided by mafias. It is a mix reaction of misconception of religion and fear of wrong doing in the day to day life. Just to correct the sin they spend. If good guidance is given to them their money will be of good use to their fellow mumenins who are misfortune.

[zinger]

Well, i have to agree with you on this, class system DOES exist. it may not be rampant and overtly visible, but it is there, no doubt about that.

and i dont think that the rich pay to the kothar for getting a title and hopefuly absolving themselves of sin, it is very clear a case of feeding the ego.

so actually, that doesnt make them misguided or fools, it makes them idiots, half of both

[SBM]

Well, i have to agree with you on this, class system DOES exist. it may not be rampant and overtly visible, but it is there, no doubt about that.

and i dont think that the rich pay to the kothar for getting a title and hopefuly absolving themselves of sin, it is very clear a case of feeding the ego.

so actually, that doesnt make them misguided or fools, it makes them idiots, half of both

Br Zinger
Can you justify the title of Shaikh to Shawkat Sarkar, a known Mafia and thief, can you provide why a Clean Shaven SIr Ghulam Noon is in the company of Kothari Goons receiving shawl while poor if they have no Dadhi are not even allowed to come close to any of the top tier Goons of Kothar
Please do not get so blinded by your love that you start with misinformation like it is NOT RAMPANT AND OVERTLY VISIBLE, it is rampant and visible please visit the zeninfosys and see the NIKKAH AGLORE where even one of the fathers is totally clean shaven and nikkah is performed by Seydi Muffadal BS

[zinger]

Well, i have to agree with you on this, class system DOES exist. it may not be rampant and overtly visible, but it is there, no doubt about that.

and i dont think that the rich pay to the kothar for getting a title and hopefuly absolving themselves of sin, it is very clear a case of feeding the ego.

so actually, that doesnt make them misguided or fools, it makes them idiots, half of both

Br Zinger
Can you justify the title of Shaikh to Shawkat Sarkar, a known Mafia and thief, can you provide why a Clean Shaven SIr Ghulam Noon is in the company of Kothari Goons receiving shawl while poor if they have no Dadhi are not even allowed to come close to any of the top tier Goons of Kothar
Please do not get so blinded by your love that you start with misinformation like it is NOT RAMPANT AND OVERTLY VISIBLE, it is rampant and visible please visit the zeninfosys and see the NIKKAH AGLORE where even one of the fathers is totally clean shaven and nikkah is performed by Seydi Muffadal BS

Pardon my french SBM bhai but really... who gives a shit about Shaukat Sarkar and Ghulam Noon? We, the Dawoodi Bohras certainly dont. The Kothar can obsess over them all they want, but we, the common folk certainly dont.

And since when did you guys get soooooooo hung about the beard????

Last time i checked, 50% of the reformists in Udaipur dont have a beard!!!!!!

The stalwarts of the reform movement Zulfiqar Husain didnt. Insaaf saab doesnt. Asgar Vanaswala, Abid Hussain Adeeb, Idris Kikabhaiwala, Tyebji Zamindar etc dont

Have a look at the pics in the links below. This proves my point.

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/news/982/66/U ... e_comment/
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/news/482/66/O ... e_comment/
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/news/481/66/B ... e_comment/

I can also hazard a guess at what you are going to say.

The reformist dont stress on the beard, it is the Dawoodi Bohras who do, the Kothar who does, we the reformist believe in freedom of expression and speech etc...

Well, i do believe it was a Sunnah of the Prophet was it not?

I will agree with you. keeping a beard or not is a personal choice, then Sunnah be damned!!! But why should it be a non-issue for you and suddenly become an issue if someone doesnt?

Basically, when it suits you, any point can be picked up and snowballed, just to score brownie points against the Dawoodi Bohra Quom is it not?

There is a saying SBM bhai, people who live in glass houses should not throw stones at other peoples houses. Do think about it.

Once again, a request which i have made many a times before. Dont be so eager to lash out at us that you end up portraying yourself in poor light

[zinger]

also, rampant, yes it is. i take my words back. it is.

and by it not being overt, i meant that it is not in public display. it is only a Dawoodi Bohra who is aware of it.

To the outsider, it might seem like a case of first-come-first serve.

I should have been clearer about what i meant

[SBM]

Br Zinger
Do not get so hyped up you are the one who said it NOT RAMPANT and all I did was make a reference and that reference is that the titles and everything else has a price and having any Religious knowledge to be worthy of those titles is damned
I do not go out and give lectures to people about how they should live their lives but Surely Syenda and his goons do, they talk about Barakat and in some Majlises they even say that we should NOT eat anything cooked by Hindus but IT IS OKAY TO GIVE TITLES TO SHARABI AND KABABI
So cool down brother and you say who give damn about KOTHAR go and ask you abdes friends not me .....and I think you also do give damn about what Kothar does otherwise you will not be huffing and puffing defending their acts

[ghulam muhammed]

The reformist dont stress on the beard, it is the Dawoodi Bohras who do, the Kothar who does

Yes, the reformists don't stress on beard but the point that Bro SBM was making is that Kothar DOES stress on it or rather it is COMPULSARY for Bohras and it is mandatory to have bearded photo of men on e-jamaat cards. Then why is it that people like Shaukat Sarkar and Ghulam Noon were given special treatment by the top bosses of Kothar inspite of they being clean shaven !! Hence the issue has to be seen from the so called Dawaat angle.

[zinger]

Br Zinger
Do not get so hyped up you are the one who said it NOT RAMPANT and all I did was make a reference and that reference is that the titles and everything else has a price and having any Religious knowledge to be worthy of those titles is damned
I do not go out and give lectures to people about how they should live their lives but Surely Syenda and his goons do, they talk about Barakat and in some Majlises they even say that we should NOT eat anything cooked by Hindus but IT IS OKAY TO GIVE TITLES TO SHARABI AND KABABI
So cool down brother and you say who give damn about KOTHAR go and ask you abdes friends not me .....and I think you also do give damn about what Kothar does otherwise you will not be huffing and puffing defending their acts

SBM bhai, about the "rampant", i said i take my words back. it was probably written erronously, in hindsight now.

the kothar is as far removed from our religion as a certain member here (who comes under different names every 2 months) is removed from reality. we have no doubts about that.

Oh and more thing, i did ask my Abde friends. do you know what they said? They said "WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT THE KOTHAR"

i thought i made it quite obvious that the kothar doesnt give a damn for anyone but themselves. i was just questioning you why suddenly, the beard has become such a big concern for you when it wasnt.

You dont give a damn about the kothar. i dont give a damn about the kothar. we dont give a damn about the kothar. then whether they felicitate a man with or without a beard shouldnt bother you.

[zinger]

The reformist dont stress on the beard, it is the Dawoodi Bohras who do, the Kothar who does

Yes, the reformists don't stress on beard but the point that Bro SBM was making is that Kothar DOES stress on it or rather it is COMPULSARY for Bohras and it is mandatory to have bearded photo of men on e-jamaat cards. Then why is it that people like Shaukat Sarkar and Ghulam Noon were given special treatment by the top bosses of Kothar inspite of they being clean shaven !! Hence the issue has to be seen from the so called Dawaat angle.

hi GM bhai, i understood what SBM bhai was saying. but my question to him, even then, was why is he getting so worked up if the kothar is associating itself with non-bearded men??? 50% of the reformists are without a beard anyways. so why point fingers?

And the reformists not stressing on beards is quite strange, considering that the rest of Muslim Ummah, the world over, stresses on a beard. Anyways, thats the decision of the reformist group i guess.

[level_headed]

Is this your achievement after parting ways with Aqa Maula
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d9_MZczADQ

The men do not look like bohras but the women absolutely do not look like bohras

[zinger]

Is this a Reformists masjid?

[ghulam muhammed]

Is this your achievement after parting ways with Aqa Maula
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d9_MZczADQ

I doubt this is a reformist Masjid and if at all it is so then the scenes are quite pathetic.

[Qutbi-Hero]

Brother zinger,
Here in kuwait everyone is forced to pay since last three years for praying in masjid or the premises outside.
Either you have to pay forcefully or pray at home.

Damn!!! (pardon my language but could think of no other word to say it)

It's true bro... I've heard people must pay to get space for a their Massalo in Masjid! Very sad and shameful.
Hopefully HsnHussain bhai will give us more details about what is happening to DBs in Kuwait...

[Qutbi-Hero]

Can you justify the title of Shaikh to Shawkat Sarkar, a known Mafia and thief, can you provide why a Clean Shaven SIr Ghulam Noon is in the company of Kothari Goons receiving shawl while poor if they have no Dadhi are not even allowed to come close to any of the top tier Goons of Kothar

Dadhi is not a big deal in London Jamaat - most people only have short beards like me, and many are clean-shaven - nobody says anything, and nobody is prevented from entering the Masjid. The only ones you will see with the silly Wahhabi style beards are the minority of Abdes sitting at the front lol.

Personally though, I think London is too liberal in this aspect - sure, keeping facial hair is your own choice... but then if people can't even do something as minor as that to please Allah... do you think they will do anything major for Him lol!

As for mighty Ghulam (no not GM, I mean Sir Ghulam Noon!)... he famously has one foot in our Jamaat and the other in the Ismaili Jamaat! Never mind not having a dhadi, he doesn't wear our Topi or Saayo and never attends Masjid (except when our BhaiSahab drags him there to receive an award lol)!

Years ago he was outcast and mocked - but after he significantly increased his wealth, and especially after he entered British Politics... the Kothar literally begged him to come back lol. He eventually helped bring the Ziarat to our Masjid (which would have been almost impossible otherwise) so is now their most favourite person in the UK lol!

As always, if you are rich and useful... people will give you special treatment! Why do you act so surprised SBM - did you think the Kothar is full of men with principle and dignity lol!

Anyway, I respect SGN highly - he has worked hard and achieved great things... the best of which is getting to a stage where the Kothar fear him, and at the same time, desperately need him lol! The Reform Movement should pay careful attention and learn from this...

[Qutbi-Hero]

Is this your achievement after parting ways with Aqa Maula
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d9_MZczADQ

The men do not look like bohras but the women absolutely do not look like bohras

Fascinating... I'm particularly impressed by the Masjid itself!

Bro, do you have any more details about this? YouTube says it was from December 2009?

Is this genuinely the Udaipur Reformist Jamaat? If it is, then Udaipur is doing very well! Excellent!