Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court
Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:54 am
Adam
Very well explained
Totally demolishing KQs claims.
Very well explained
Totally demolishing KQs claims.
http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/
Rightlyguided wrote:Adam
Very well explained
Totally demolishing KQs claims.
MMH wrote:Rightlyguided wrote:Adam
Very well explained
Totally demolishing KQs claims.
Rightlydisillusioned, have you read the counter arguments from Byculla, moiz dhanu and anajmi. Adam responds to selective messages and you 'read' selective messages.
Your adam has been thrashed with strong responses from all of the above..
Rightlyguided wrote:MMH wrote:
Rightlydisillusioned, have you read the counter arguments from Byculla, moiz dhanu and anajmi. Adam responds to selective messages and you 'read' selective messages.
Your adam has been thrashed with strong responses from all of the above..
Adams arguments were to the point and very relevant to the topic..
The matter of witnesses Nass and tawqeef is single most important thing. Because that forms basis of KQ claims.
Qutbi clan claim lntellectual superiority but cannot comprehend this simple fundamental fallacy.
Ridiculous
Its evident who gets thrashed..
Time and time again.
I have addressed the points raised by Adam and other Dawedar Mr. Muffadul Saifuddin (DMMS) followers many times. Yet, like weeds in a garden, they keep appearing again and again.humanbeing wrote:The Nuss Drama was superbly orchestrated, the SMS camp followers rely heavily on strategically planned events .. yet these planned events leave a lot for sensible thinkers to doubt the authenticity of Nuss events.
…
one can obviously see and sense the frustration and anger within SMS camp that indulges them for laanat baazi, ridiculing, inspite of power and popularity is at their side.
these are indicative enough who lacks and possess ; tawfeeq and sabr
Only in brief for now: there is a very big difference between a mazoon and mukasir. When Hussain BS was mukaasir, he himself has acknowledged this fact in a sabaaq, saying that the person of S. Qutbuddin was very exalted, and that a mazoon can not be compared to a mukaasir, and the latter has only very limited powers. He also totally demolished the Zaahir-Baatin conspiracy. I was present at the sabaaq where he said these things. Now, the fact that he turned against haaq is not surprising. Many people do that, out of various reasons. Fear, greed, lack of knowledge and lust for power are among them.Mazakyo wrote:Then I guess a similar argument is that how did a Mukasir (Hussain BS) who was appointed by SMB sided with SMS (i.e. not with Haq as per you). So does this mean SMB erred in the case of Mukasir but not Mazoon?
Your thoughts will be appreciated.
Biradar has written some serious thought provoking and plausible arguments..i hope people give a deep thought to them.Mazakyo wrote:Good Points Biradar. One question though. An argument is put forward (mostly by the Qutbi clan) is that how can a person appointed by SMB (SKQ as mazoon) turn against SMB's wishes. SMB knew what he was doing when he appointed him. He was appointed with tawfeeq.
Then I guess a similar argument is that how did a Mukasir (Hussain BS) who was appointed by SMB sided with SMS (i.e. not with Haq as per you). So does this mean SMB erred in the case of Mukasir but not Mazoon? Your thoughts will be appreciated.
The above is an overlooked point that has never been addressed. Very subtle but very apt.Infact ,there is a protocol which has been followed in dawat's history that whenever a Dai does nass in front of shahids(not a public nass), then as per the chain of command the public announcement(if it has to happen) should come from the office of Mazun , and then from Office of Muqasir..
But guess what happened in DMBS/ Shz.QJ's raj?
As per the drama we witnessed .."Burhanuddin moula(RA) allegedly told about Nass to Shz QJ and other shehzadas and instead of telling the second chain in command(mazun) , or third chain in command(muqasir) , he (shz QJ)took up on himself to deliver the news to the whole world."
I even got the news from someone in Muqasir HusainBS's khidmat that he(HusainBS) was in shock and awe that how could Shz QJ , have broken such an important protocol.
Nass announcement is not a small thing, that can be delivered via someone who has no authority in Imam's office.
Shehzadas have no relevance in Imam's office (as can be seen in Misaak).
Right on! This oversight is more than an infraction of protocol. The fact that they didn't - is a major error on their part.Moiz_Dhaanu wrote:
As per the drama we witnessed .."Burhanuddin moula(RA) allegedly told about Nass to Shz QJ and other shehzadas and instead of telling the second chain in command(mazun) , or third chain in command(muqasir) , he (shz QJ)took up on himself to deliver the news to the whole world."
Not only Badrul Jamali even Tahir son of Muqasir Hussain bs was made to taste the luxurious life style since his youth. He was the handler of the old and feeble father and is the major factor in tilting Hussain bs towards MS.alam wrote:Right on! This oversight is more than an infraction of protocol. The fact that they didn't - is a major error on their part.Moiz_Dhaanu wrote:
As per the drama we witnessed .."Burhanuddin moula(RA) allegedly told about Nass to Shz QJ and other shehzadas and instead of telling the second chain in command(mazun) , or third chain in command(muqasir) , he (shz QJ)took up on himself to deliver the news to the whole world."
And the public display of internal matters perhaps saved the community from divisiveness among the followers.
totally agreed, I have myself witnessed Hussain Bs opening his covers and checking money. Even when his diwaans have checked the covers he sometimes checks it as old habits die hard. Now being incapacitated due to old age his son Taher must be doing it.MMH wrote:I may have mentioned this previously on the forum that the current mazoon (hussain b.s) would open up his salam covers in front of the people who had come to his hazrat for salam, and if the notes were less than Rs.50, he would throw the cover away at those people. He was very offended by a lower sum of money...so I guess he is highly learned but highly laalchi....
Another incident is when he would leave for home in his car, he would be found opening the covers he had received that day. A neighbor who used to cross his path as her workplace was close by saw him do this multiple times...so much for being a mukasir...so its highly possible that he got lured by some hefty amount given and changed his tassawur.
There are similar stories about Qasim b.s (current muqasir)....equally money minded....
this is not trueInfact we all have heard that even if the true imam comes out and declares himself , we should first go and seek confirmation from Dai, because he is next in command chain..
Please use your common sense.kseeker wrote:this is not trueInfact we all have heard that even if the true imam comes out and declares himself , we should first go and seek confirmation from Dai, because he is next in command chain..
1.Imaam
2. Bab-Al-Abwaab
3. Hujjat -al - nahaar
4. Hujjat - al -lail
5. Dai - al - balagh
6. Dai - al - Mutlaq
The Dai amongst us (supposedly) is technically 6th in line....
If correct, this is really sad. Husain BS (current mazoom) who I guess is likely extremely rich and well off, is willing to testify to a lie in his ripe old age for some more money/threats? Allah help preserve our deen of Islam.MMH wrote:My gut feeling is that Hussain b.s (current mazoon) and family are coerced/ threatened by his son in law (Badrul Jamali) who is Muffy's bro in law ( Jawharabensaab's brother). I am sure, changing his stance on the nass and the position of the mazoon has a lot to do with Badrul Jamali who is well known for his goon like methods of operating...
Sir,seeker110 wrote:Both the candidates of Daiship have not lived life by meager means. They enjoyed all the unearned money of their parents. They have not served the community all or did away with haram maal. Not expecting any monks here, but atleast a wow of service for the poor, yateem and miskeen. They did not work to build charactor and goodwill, maybe done opposite and at times saved their own as..
It is and has been, more about the throne and whatever life they are used to.
We as Bohras need to find one learned, respectable and pious person to lead the fold. To achieve greatness in the eyes of people around us. We have to find somebody among us who has the likes of Abdul Kalam Azad, Addul Sattar Ehdhi and Agha Khan. I want to see some quality of Panjatan Pak in the person.
Too much power and money is involved with Tahir Saifuddin's family. Most if not all are greedy and takahat loving. They dont even sit like regular folks. Do not trust a leader in white clothes that renders him from rolling up his selves, and work for the greater good of all.
At least walk like a man about to go to work or war.Not like a bunch of Bailas. ( Dulhan ),
I am not saying you are wrong. More power to you. I wish you well and root for you.seeker110 wrote:I have much faith in our community.s brothers and sisters. I also have faith that Allah will help us if we work towards achieving our religious obligations and goals.
It would be shame not to wash away with the royal family. Our Masjids are filled with yes men and looteras. We know the dark times of the last three Dais. Why are we not starting afresh.
Every town has many people like the Valika's, Alavis and Millwalas. Some of the well known philanthropists were women. They were important like the thumb in a hand. They will all come backup only if this royal family is put aside.
Choosing a lesser evil. Brother dal chawal , you explain that to your son. Me, I will keep screaming and kicking against the compromised, sinful affairs. I have hope of a better setup other then keeping things of yester years.