Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

[SBM]

To both Wajid and QM
My point is SKQ was Mazoon for 50 years and he knew the corruption was rife as this corrupt practice started from 51st and still he never stood up against tyranny and corruption. It is only when he did not get the seat of Daiship, he decided that wrong has been committed. He only spoke and took position when the wrong was committed against him and his family but did not say a word when wrong was done to community.
I have no doubts about education level in his family. He raised his children and provided the best education, wish he would have done the same for the children of community too during his Mazoonship

[kimanumanu]

I disagree on this SBM bhai. There has to be a reason why he was already alienated during those 50 years. Don't you think that he did take this stand and hence why he was sidelined? After all, in their own words, they do say that he was always against their ideas - "badhi waat ma irad irad irad" is a phrase I have heard often used as a stick to beat him.

[seeker110]

SQ had the patience of a beggar , kept his hope for the throne like a beggar getting refused but never lamented. Educated and sucessful businessman does not look for hand out.

[ghulam muhammed]

Whatever said and done but the fact remains that KQ couldn't raise his voice against the corruption in Dawat, one can draw his/her own conclusions for the reasons behind it. In my personal opinion, he was not greedy and power hungry like the last 2 Dais and MS as he had enough money with him. During the earlier days, his father-in-law was the richest person in Saifee Mahal, it was said that he owned almost 100 buildings in Bombay alone and KQ's wife being the only child, inherited her father's entire wealth. Moreover KQ too inherited a huge chunk of wealth from his father. With passing days, SMB overtook KQ by leaps and bounds with regard to wealth as he headed the Dawat and introduced various taxes which were forcefully collected, the amount of money he took for Ziyafats, Hadiyats, Pagla, Qadambosi, Masjid waqf, Wajebat etc etc is well known. This wealth was passed on to MS and other zaadas who are in the process of multiplying the same with more vigor by taking advantage of the follower's blind faith and using SMB as their marketing tool !

In a nutshell, KQ is the lesser evil as compared to MS.

[seeker110]

Whatever said and done but the fact remains that KQ couldn't raise his voice against the corruption in Dawat, one can draw his/her own conclusions for the reasons behind it. In my personal opinion, he was not greedy and power hungry like the last 2 Dais and MS as he had enough money with him. During the earlier days, his father-in-law was the richest person in Saifee Mahal, it was said that he owned almost 100 buildings in Bombay alone and KQ's wife being the only child, inherited her father's entire wealth. Moreover KQ too inherited a huge chunk of wealth from his father. With passing days, SMB overtook KQ by leaps and bounds with regard to wealth as he headed the Dawat and introduced various taxes which were forcefully collected, the amount of money he took for Ziyafats, Hadiyats, Pagla, Qadambosi, Masjid waqf, Wajebat etc etc is well known. This wealth was passed on to MS and other zaadas who are in the process of multiplying the same with more vigor by taking advantage of the follower's blind faith and using SMB as their marketing tool !

In a nutshell, KQ is the lesser evil as compared to MS.

Just like Trump. A high voltage live wire.

[Fateh]

If we consider that dai is our spiritual leader then after 46 no. no dai is suit for spiritual leader.

[I Rizwan]

Whatever said and done but the fact remains that KQ couldn't raise his voice against the corruption in Dawat, one can draw his/her own conclusions for the reasons behind it. In my personal opinion, he was not greedy and power hungry like the last 2 Dais and MS as he had enough money with him. During the earlier days, his father-in-law was the richest person in Saifee Mahal, it was said that he owned almost 100 buildings in Bombay alone and KQ's wife being the only child, inherited her father's entire wealth. Moreover KQ too inherited a huge chunk of wealth from his father. With passing days, SMB overtook KQ by leaps and bounds with regard to wealth as he headed the Dawat and introduced various taxes which were forcefully collected, the amount of money he took for Ziyafats, Hadiyats, Pagla, Qadambosi, Masjid waqf, Wajebat etc etc is well known. This wealth was passed on to MS and other zaadas who are in the process of multiplying the same with more vigor by taking advantage of the follower's blind faith and using SMB as their marketing tool !

In a nutshell, KQ is the lesser evil as compared to MS.

Salaam brother Ghulam Muhammed,

I understand your anger and anguish and I had same anger, but then I realized when people gang up against a particular person or family it becomes hard to do any thing, right now my whole locality has ganged up against my family because we dont want to be part of their stupid behaviour and guess what we are side line and those who know us well do sympathise but they are too chicken to speak in open, good thing is we are self sufficient Alhumdolillah and we dont care these morons, but I do realize it must really hard for SKQ saheb to survive that long in such hostile environment which MS and his toli created for him, even after his death they are still dancing and showing their hate, so just imagine how much SKQ must be oppressed in his life.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

he did raise his voice a few many times, but was silenced by saying moula no hukum nathi mathe chadhawto, maula ni nafarmaani kare che.
in his life time, he was maligned as being trying to be parallel to SMB. if he would have raised still more voice, he would be made seen as going against SMB's wish and that would be considered as balshphemous and would be eliminated.
in kothar now or then, anyone trying to reform or doing anything against the farmaan is seen as going against the dai and is done baraat.
SKQ knew this very well. if he had done that, his mazoon rutba too would have been annexed and he would be totally isolated with no one to follow . even now very few follow him, so think what would have happen if this would have happened in SMB;s life time. he would be left with zero follower. so then he would have raised the voice for whom? if he would have been thrown out of dawaat, which dawaat he would try to reform?

[humanbeing]

personal Integrity is more important than leadership. SKQ's silence towards SMB's corrupt reign makes him partner in the crime. Least he could do was to resign from mazoon post and lead a simple and honest life. What was he doing sitting on mazoon position for 50 years, helplessly watching corruption grow into a monster ??

A true leader does not need affiliation by blood or anointment. if he was truly a capable leader religious or administrative he would have eventually carved out his loyal following be it of 1 2 or millions. these kothari thugs can only claim leadership on basis of blood and parentage, remove this affiliation and they are worthless as individual. No personal trait, qualification, achievement or struggle to boast as a leader.

What exactly did he do as mazoon of the daawat ? what was his Job Description ? how was he suppose to support DAI in daawat ! if SKQ was true to his conscience, either he would have blown whistle at slightest corruption be it against SMB or anyone at earliest instance. SKQ submitted to SMB's authority as an elder brother and DAI, Psychologically he could be weak to rebel. This could be acceptable for a commoner within families, but SKQ was entrusted with mazoon position. either he could have been brave enough to challenge and change the system or sincerely step down and take no responsibility of the corruption thereafter his resignation.

some members mentioned, how SKQ was compassionate towards people and listened to thier problems ?? that is great and sweet. but what about the solutions. fair, he may have resolved some poor bohra's financial troubles. but what about more fundamental corruption in justice, non-accountability and scheming to fleece average bohras at every instance. what did SKQ do about that ? Fair, he ran some parallel beneficiary scheme but what about his affiliation to corrupt daawat where he was mazoon ?

SKQ remained publicly silent for awefully long time, even when SMS was gaining affiliation towards mansoos ship and next Dai position. what was SKQ day dreaming about ? waiting for SMB's health to recover ? one need not be a ghaib-na-jankar to see SMB and refer to his medical condition to deduce that he is getting worse and worse. there was ample time for SKQ to rise and take an objection to see his beloved elder brother being "manipulated" . spill the beans and let medical reports, corruption and obvious and glaring exploitation of SMB's medical condition be known to public.

[I Rizwan]

Salaam BroHumanbeing,

do not judge SKQ from the action and history of last 20-to-25 years, because before that every thing was good and not corrupt as it is right now. I think SKQ started fading out due to his age and health issues and this is when MS toli took over.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

bro HM
i accept ur point of view and not defending SKQ.
what u say is right in theory, but think practically.
what could he have done at the most. if he would have raised even an iota of revolt, he would be thrown out or as u say resign from mazoon.
ok then what?
he could carve out loyal 1 or 2 million followers? how ? where r u living bro? even now there are only handful of people with him.
just think what would happen if he revolted when SMB is alive. that means going against dai, any idea what does this mean ? it also means going against STS wishes. people would have to choose between SMB and SKQ. it also means challenging nuss of STS. a very very complex situation. not even a single bohra would have accepted that. i doubt even reformist would have accepted him.
whom would he lead if there are no followers?

[I Rizwan]

Some times its best to keep quiet and let the things take shape naturally and this is what SKQ chose. but of course he spoke out and we all know why there is so much enmity towards him in kothar mafia.

[humanbeing]

do not judge SKQ from the action and history of last 20-to-25 years, because before that every thing was good and not corrupt as it is right now..

W salaam bro IR
Public Silence of SKQ in the past is expression of his intentions and thought flow. Welcome to the bohra forum and do read extensively about bohra past, where ample examples of corruption, injustice and exploitation is available. You may be new and naïve to these incidents. More reading and exploring will help you come in terms with the bohra past.

what could he have done at the most. if he would have raised even an iota of revolt, he would be thrown out or as u say resign from mazoon. ok then what?

Yes, so ! does this fear matter to one’s integrity and conscience ! are we talking about followers of Prophet Muhammed, Imam Ali, Imam Hussein, Qutbuddin shaheed ? is this the learning we would wanna take from our leaders !! to be quiet in face of tyranny and corruption ! specially in leadership position !

he could carve out loyal 1 or 2 million followers? how ? where r u living bro? even now there are only handful of people with him.

You may have missed the text here. I meant SKQ could have 1 …. 2 …. Or millions in sincerity, rather than blind followers we see today !

just think what would happen if he revolted when SMB is alive. that means going against dai, any idea what does this mean ? it also means going against STS wishes. people would have to choose between SMB and SKQ. it also means challenging nuss of STS. a very very complex situation. not even a single bohra would have accepted that. i doubt even reformist would have accepted him.
whom would he lead if there are no followers?

so we are back to square one ! what kind of reform does people want ? if They all want same conformity, don’t challenge the corrupt authority, go with flow, don’t disturb the status quo, don’t change the rituals, don’t change the authority, don’t change the lineage, don’t change the filth and don’t change the majority. What is the point of being reformist, progressive, rebel, free thinker, awakened !
is a leader dependent on followers ? is leader suppose to guide the followers or submit to follower’s demands ?
everyone wants readymade followers inherited from lineage ! what is this fixation with numbers rather than righteousness. Is this how we judge greatness ?? number of followers !

A mere commoner bohra named Ali Asgar engineer and his likes in udaipur and elsewhere had more guts to take on the mighty kothar inspite of lack of resources. What did they get in return; banishment, violence, humiliation. Atleast they died with clear conscience. Why did they revolt ? they were not in a leadership position ? they were not responsible for anyone’s najaat, they were not the heaven keepers.
Cmon, least, least we can do is not give superficial greatness to these petty Kothari thugs, who started crying and became holier than thou when wrongs happened to them.

[SBM]

^
I do not think we even have to go that far----
how one active member on this Forum Ozdundee took upon entire Kothar on FGM and we see the results. he could have kept quiet and go his merry way but he took upon himself when many on this forum did not think that he could fight the mighty Kothari Mafia but he did and Mashallaha we are seeing the results

[kimanumanu]

I sense there is a very harsh view/opinion being taken on SKQ because of what transpired in general over the last 25 or so years - basically since the Multaqa or whatever YN brought in.

Why aren't we asking ourselves what made SKQ a "dushman" of dawat for the last 25 years as publicly proclaimed by SMS? How can a person who, as per bro humanbeing's assertion, remained silent and party to the Kothar crimes, become a "dushman"? Surely logic dictates that he must have raised objections and that made him the "dushman"? I also mentioned that they keep mentioning that he was doing "irad" in everything - that is further proof that he was against some of the things they have been doing.

I understand we are all frustrated and angry at the state of our community but painting everyone with the same brush is just as bad. After all, SKQ did break off his shackles and stood alone against the mighty Kothar - did we go and join him?

[ghulam muhammed]

Whatever said and done but the fact remains that KQ couldn't raise his voice against the corruption in Dawat, one can draw his/her own conclusions for the reasons behind it. In my personal opinion, he was not greedy and power hungry like the last 2 Dais and MS as he had enough money with him. During the earlier days, his father-in-law was the richest person in Saifee Mahal, it was said that he owned almost 100 buildings in Bombay alone and KQ's wife being the only child, inherited her father's entire wealth. Moreover KQ too inherited a huge chunk of wealth from his father. With passing days, SMB overtook KQ by leaps and bounds with regard to wealth as he headed the Dawat and introduced various taxes which were forcefully collected, the amount of money he took for Ziyafats, Hadiyats, Pagla, Qadambosi, Masjid waqf, Wajebat etc etc is well known. This wealth was passed on to MS and other zaadas who are in the process of multiplying the same with more vigor by taking advantage of the follower's blind faith and using SMB as their marketing tool !

In a nutshell, KQ is the lesser evil as compared to MS.

Salaam brother Ghulam Muhammed,

I understand your anger and anguish and I had same anger, but then I realized when people gang up against a particular person or family it becomes hard to do any thing, right now my whole locality has ganged up against my family because we dont want to be part of their stupid behaviour and guess what we are side line and those who know us well do sympathise but they are too chicken to speak in open, good thing is we are self sufficient Alhumdolillah and we dont care these morons, but I do realize it must really hard for SKQ saheb to survive that long in such hostile environment which MS and his toli created for him, even after his death they are still dancing and showing their hate, so just imagine how much SKQ must be oppressed in his life.

Walekum Salaam Brother Rizwan,

I am not against SKQ per se ! In fact I believe that he is a much better leader then the 7th fail maniac. I also believe that he was under tremendous pressure and a victim of evil conspiracy hatched by SMB's sons under guidance from the wicked Yusuf Najmuddin. As you are new to the forum, I suggest you read my opening comments on the thread "The Fitnah behind the present turmoil in Bohra Community" in which I have given a detailed account of how KQ was harassed by the mafias of Saifee Mahal.

[kimanumanu]

I suggest you read my opening comments on the thread "The Fitnah behind the present turmoil in Bohra Community" in which I have given a detailed account of how KQ was harassed by the mafias of Saifee Mahal.

The thread is here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9262

[Mkenya]

Just as Fateh wrote, there has been no legitimate Dai after 46th. or so. 51st. armed with a retinue of "educated" children perfected the art of fleecing the community. Chief among them was YN. No investment was made by Kothar in acquiring land, buildings, mosques, jamaatkhana, kabrastan medical clinics, musafirkhanas, etc. All was funded by the local communities and a few brown-nosers who wanted a portion of the gravy train. One post mentions that SQK's father(?) had over a 100 buildings in Mumbai. A question needs to be asked: where did he get the money from if not from millions in salaam and ziafat (all black money). People say the present generation of 51st and 52nd. is very well educated. "Kem na hoi; mara baap pase pun adhrakh beimani na paisa hote to hun pun khoob bhante!" People, you are all wasting time justifying the authencity and piety of one Dai or the other. They are all lining their pockets with taxes under various pretext; taxes which keep increasing every year. What would we do for entertainment if there were no Dais, no Fatemi Dawat, no Dawoodi Bohra Progressive forum, no play-acting in waez, no starched outfits to radiate their 'holiness', no 'bolta ghoda', no more late dafan. I say to Kothar to continue to blind and hypnotize the community. Sweep up their money, hoodwink them with Mojeza, phoonk nu pani, make them wait for hours at railways platforms for deedar and other wizardry. Happy travels in first class plane rides, five-star accommodation, travel in vintage limousines, lazeez pakwaan. Do not worry, these days will never end as long as you continue your fool-proof charade.

[Fateh]

Just as Fateh wrote, there has been no legitimate Dai after 46th. or so. 51st. armed with a retinue of "educated" children perfected the art of fleecing the community. Chief among them was YN. No investment was made by Kothar in acquiring land, buildings, mosques, jamaatkhana, kabrastan medical clinics, musafirkhanas, etc. All was funded by the local communities and a few brown-nosers who wanted a portion of the gravy train. One post mentions that SQK's father(?) had over a 100 buildings in Mumbai. A question needs to be asked: where did he get the money from if not from millions in salaam and ziafat (all black money). People say the present generation of 51st and 52nd. is very well educated. "Kem na hoi; mara baap pase pun adhrakh beimani na paisa hote to hun pun khoob bhante!" People, you are all wasting time justifying the authencity and piety of one Dai or the other. They are all lining their pockets with taxes under various pretext; taxes which keep increasing every year. What would we do for entertainment if there were no Dais, no Fatemi Dawat, no Dawoodi Bohra Progressive forum, no play-acting in waez, no starched outfits to radiate their 'holiness', no 'bolta ghoda', no more late dafan. I say to Kothar to continue to blind and hypnotize the community. Sweep up their money, hoodwink them with Mojeza, phoonk nu pani, make them wait for hours at railways platforms for deedar and other wizardry. Happy travels in first class plane rides, five-star accommodation, travel in vintage limousines, lazeez pakwaan. Do not worry, these days will never end as long as you continue your fool-proof charade.

Well said sir,i am totally agree with you,either KQ or Mafatlall both are not spiritual leader ,they are thug bhagat & emotional blackmailer.

[zinger]

^
I do not think we even have to go that far----
how one active member on this Forum Ozdundee took upon entire Kothar on FGM and we see the results. he could have kept quiet and go his merry way but he took upon himself when many on this forum did not think that he could fight the mighty Kothari Mafia but he did and Mashallaha we are seeing the results

aameen

[yfm]

What is this Malikul Ashtar going to New Jersey for and extracting money from the bohras of New Jersey. I hear [DELETED] Can some one enlightened progressive bohra angel shed some light here.

[Dua for Momeen]

any updates?

Dua For Momeen.

[ghulam muhammed]

Syedna Mufaddal reads his father Syedna Burhanuddin’s purported Nass-Wasiat Nama appointing him (SMS) as the Next Dai.

This Nass-Wasiyat Nama needs to be proved with forensic evidence as to who wrote this will and verify Syedna Burhanuddin signature. The witnesses mentioned in the will, Mr. Tambawala and others have died. The matter is with Mumbai court. Khozema Saheb, who had contested the Nass, also has died. I wonder how the case in Mumbai court would proceed. I think it would drag for years; after decades, it would be forgotten; and Bohras will have another Firqa.
If Dawoodi Bohras smartly use the current division and infighting to their advantage, they can loosen the draconian Kothari grip on their lives.

For that to happen, Khozema Party should quickly intervene and help the victims, whenever Kothar denies burial, Nikah, etc. Khozema Party should organize such that their followers are able to visit Galyakot, Ahmedabad, Burhanpur Dargahs safely and easily.

Please click https://youtu.be/fMcOHof_n5I watch the Video. Syedna Mufaddal has difficulty in reading the Wasiyat. He fumbles several times. Another person would have remembered it by heart. Abdes call him Aalim, the all-knower.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMcOHof ... e=youtu.be

[Dua for Momeen]

Most probably (deleted by Admin/Moderator) burhanuddin did wrote this nass and did (deleted by Admin/Moderator) with his father and step brother....no surprise for me here.

just like how muawiya appointed yazid even when he had an agreement with Ali(A) that he wont appoint yazid.

history keeps repeating it self.

HARAMKHORI/DAGABAZI/KHAYA NAT KHORI/ JHUTA PANU ANE ISHRAFI....AA family ni khaasiyat che.


Dua for momeen.

[JC]

Tire Cheapuddin and his whole family are thugs and usurpers' ...... they are worst dictators. Nothing good can come out of them as they are total and perfect BAD .....

[Mkenya]

When would Reformists realize that 51st.'s charade in fact now heralds a split in the community with two dissimilar firqas. In fact STS has not fallen far from the tree. Both camps are continuing to garnishee support from the masses. For what? That they are both legit? And legit for what? To lead the community and uphold and propagate genuine Shiaism? Or to make up their own version of Deen as they move along? Let no posters waste their time expounding the piety and benevolence of Maulana Ali, Hassan, Hussein, and so on. Those are from years past and serve in today's world as reference points only. The 'fakes' of today quote them when expedient. So called Dais of both camps have elevated themselves to their exalted position by virtue of beliefs of people in them. We reformists are relegated to just watch with dismay the abyss into which our brethren have fallen into. That is their choice. Just because ozundee initiated steps to confront and impacted the FGM issue does not translate into a mass revolt against the two fakes. I regularly peruse the different topics in this forum and sense the impotence of posters. But what can they do? They have a tiny, tiny, flute into which they exert to blow asthmatic puffs compared to the fakes' full orchestra having devoured on three mithas, three kaharas, buffet of entree concluding with mouth watering deserts. This forum is a woeful and totally ineffective display of thorns on the sides of the fakes. The fakes in fact continue to indulge in whatever they wish; be it wildlife hunting, extortion of money, coercion with social boycott and so on. And still the mass gathers in huge numbers at railway stations, airport, along motorcade routes, cramming themselves to the rafters to listen to discourses on shanat, endless screenings of live video presentations....... Enough has been written on the maladministration by the two fakes; to what purpose? Nothing will ever change.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

bro mkenya
ummeed pe duniya kaim hai.

[JC]

Mkenya,

I agree but slightly disagree .......... you say nothing will ever change, disagree, it will change at both (or as many) firkas bohras have, but it will change for worse! it will go bad, the masters will ask for more and more and more in terms of everything.

Bro Mamajiwala is also right, Umeed pay dunya qaim hay ............ these PMPs will go so bad and soon that one fine morning masses will simply scre* them off.......

[Mkenya]

Enlarging further on my earlier post let us postulate and peek into the future.
After dragging the nuss issue in the courts, say the verdict is that one or the other party has not proven its case beyond reasonable doubts. If SMS wins he effectively tells the loser (STS) to put his tail between his two hind legs and go lick his wounds. For all intents and purposes the winner takes all. STS then has the option of appealing or gathering his flock and establish a new firqa; let us say called 'Chopania" or whatever. SMS will then gloat and swing his scimitar, capacitating all (including lions and elephants in Zimbabwe) culminating in him 'beraajing' atop a gushing fountain of ever-increasing money. There is no way STS can ever win. The bases are loaded and SMS is in the driver's seat. He has Modi's eyes, ears, and has how to funnel money to him.
By chance, and I say by chance if STS wins. That will be only on paper. Any lawyer will tell you that collecting after a judgement is the most exhaustive exercise. How would STS wrest control? Him and whose army? He will be thwarted at every step of the way. How would he set about evicting hundreds of Zaadas and Zaadis from the Mahels. Would he think that SMS and his gang will simply sign over the bank accounts and give him the keys to the vaults. Poor STS will neither be a winner or a loser. He will bear the title of Dai-in-exile.
Posters, let us hear from you!

[Fateh]

Enlarging further on my earlier post let us postulate and peek into the future.
After dragging the nuss issue in the courts, say the verdict is that one or the other party has not proven its case beyond reasonable doubts. If SMS wins he effectively tells the loser (STS) to put his tail between his two hind legs and go lick his wounds. For all intents and purposes the winner takes all. STS then has the option of appealing or gathering his flock and establish a new firqa; let us say called 'Chopania" or whatever. SMS will then gloat and swing his scimitar, capacitating all (including lions and elephants in Zimbabwe) culminating in him 'beraajing' atop a gushing fountain of ever-increasing money. There is no way STS can ever win. The bases are loaded and SMS is in the driver's seat. He has Modi's eyes, ears, and has how to funnel money to him.
By chance, and I say by chance if STS wins. That will be only on paper. Any lawyer will tell you that collecting after a judgement is the most exhaustive exercise. How would STS wrest control? Him and whose army? He will be thwarted at every step of the way. How would he set about evicting hundreds of Zaadas and Zaadis from the Mahels. Would he think that SMS and his gang will simply sign over the bank accounts and give him the keys to the vaults. Poor STS will neither be a winner or a loser. He will bear the title of Dai-in-exile.
Posters, let us hear from you!

Yes what will be happen? May be future may be as you orchestrated or may be different Allah knows better.Let we not only hope or write comfortably the post on this reform forum but sincerely do something concrete for reform in our community & important is that start reform from self first then Allah will definitely help all of us.