Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

[true_bohra]

they both cant live without sex?
can they?

Is marriage all about sex???

[Adam]

One would need to be a Muslim to know the sawaab of Nikah, and the joy Rasulullah SAW expressed when a Muslim got Nikah.

I wouldn't expect a Proggy to know either.

[Moiz_Dhaanu]

One would need to be a Muslim to know the sawaab of Nikah, and the joy Rasulullah SAW expressed when a Muslim got Nikah.

I wouldn't expect a Proggy to know either.

first let your Circus Ring Master DMBS and his sons and brothers understand the meaning of being proper decent Human beings then try and give lecture of being good muslims to others.

DMBS= Dawedaar Mufaddal Bhai Saheb

[SBM]

One would need to be a Muslim to know the sawaab of Nikah, and the joy Rasulullah SAW expressed when a Muslim got Nikah.

I wouldn't expect a Proggy to know either.

Does a good Muslim curses and sends laanat to his own Elders? I suppose there is lot a swaab of sending Laanats to your blood relatives who are elder to you. I suppose a good Muslim SON would get lot of sawab parading his old and sick father to collect as much cash as possible
Oh well a mouth piece of Saify Mahal would know that very well

[Moiz_Dhaanu]

One would need to be a Muslim to know the sawaab of Nikah, and the joy Rasulullah SAW expressed when a Muslim got Nikah.

I wouldn't expect a Proggy to know either.

I am quite sure that Rasulullah SAW hadith and joy about nikah was for those who were never married or first time Grooms..do not twist the hadith for the benefit for self pleasure oriented second nikah..which these 2 have done

Also anybody with any brains can tell why these 2 Junior Circus Ring Masters could only procure 2 poor yemeni docile girls, when there were tons of rich and influential bohra amtes dying to get married to them.
I think so that they could be ordered to make rotis for the whole Circus Clan

By the way we all know who the Senior Circus Ring Master is

[dal-chaval-palidu]

Are they officially divorced from the daughters of SKQ saheb? If not, in Islam don't you need the consent of the first wife before the marriage?

[true_bohra]

One would need to be a Muslim to know the sawaab of Nikah, and the joy Rasulullah SAW expressed when a Muslim got Nikah.

I wouldn't expect a Proggy to know either.

Does a good Muslim curses and sends laanat to his own Elders? I suppose there is lot a swaab of sending Laanats to your blood relatives who are elder to you. I suppose a good Muslim SON would get lot of sawab parading his old and sick father to collect as much cash as possible
Oh well a mouth piece of Saify Mahal would know that very well

Talking a lot about good Muslim and laanat. Before telling us have you checked on with the forum itself.

In every thread it abuses the Dai...so u mean by your words that you all are also not good Muslim that you abuse the Dai with what not words

[true_bohra]

One would need to be a Muslim to know the sawaab of Nikah, and the joy Rasulullah SAW expressed when a Muslim got Nikah.

I wouldn't expect a Proggy to know either.

I am quite sure that Rasulullah SAW hadith and joy about nikah was for those who were never married or first time Grooms..do not twist the hadith for the benefit for self pleasure oriented second nikah..which these 2 have done

Also anybody with any brains can tell why these 2 Junior Circus Ring Masters could only procure 2 poor yemeni docile girls, when there were tons of rich and influential bohra amtes dying to get married to them.
I think so that they could be ordered to make rotis for the whole Circus Clan

By the way we all know who the Senior Circus Ring Master is

With this stupid statement of yours, I pity the condition of the qutbis

[humanbeing]

Are they officially divorced from the daughters of SKQ saheb? If not, in Islam don't you need the consent of the first wife before the marriage?

As per SMS misaaq, SKQ and his associates have defected and thier marriages are considered annulled and children deemed haraam, unless kids returned to SMS misaaq. similarly as per SKQ misaaq these applies on SMS associates as well, phew, poor children they become haraam one way or other ! what an irony .. or what a justice ! or injustice to children ( correct me / reprimand me if quoted wrong rule)

multiple marriages has been a joke for muslims men worldwide, these kothari guys have the money, power, justification, authority, lukka time and urge to get married. whole community is there to financially support them, thier job and wealth is secured.

regarding laanat, please enlighten with more information,

Can one throw laanat on muslims ? .. or is it to be thrown only on non muslims ?

Defecting SMS misaaq makes SKQ a non bohra or non muslim ?

[allbird]

Are they officially divorced from the daughters of SKQ saheb? If not, in Islam don't you need the consent of the first wife before the marriage?

So Mufaddal Moula TUS married on daughter of SKQ and his son Taba BS married another sister. So in short father marries one sister and son marries another ?? Complex ......Correct me if i am wrong. One sister is step mother-in-law of another ?? .... VERY complex...

[qjbj]

The inter marriage shows how much love and affection SKQ must have for SMB. It's a a fact that MS divorced SKQ daughter. For SKQ to have another daughter married to MS son must have been very hard and I'm sure he must have only allowed another daughter to marry into the MS family to obey the wishes of SMB. This proves the love and affection SKQ must have for SMB. On the other hand MS, having divorced the daughter of SKQ, shows his disobedience to SMB. This has been shown further in his treatment of SMB in the last 3 years to get hold of power.

[dal-chaval-palidu]

The inter marriage shows how much love and affection SKQ must have for SMB. It's a a fact that MS divorced SKQ daughter. For SKQ to have another daughter married to MS son must have been very hard and I'm sure he must have only allowed another daughter to marry into the MS family to obey the wishes of SMB. This proves the love and affection SKQ must have for SMB. On the other hand MS, having divorced the daughter of SKQ, shows his disobedience to SMB. This has been shown further in his treatment of SMB in the last 3 years to get hold of power.

qjbj,

It occurred to me that what you say is a possibility. Thanks for putting it well. After SKQ saheb saying in court that SMS and QJ has so much hatred (nafrat) for him, it is a distinct possibility that he agreed to (and his daughters agreed to) marry the sons of SMS and QJ because it was SMB's strong wish.

More and more, this is disturbing to me, as it does not cast SMB in a good light. He should have stopped the hatred for SKQ, and he did not. His word was law for the Bohras and in a few words he could have shut them off, but he chooses to remain totally silent. His son married and divorced rather casually (I hear in 2 to 3 months, and that sounds not just casual, but rather callous) SKQ’s daughter, who was 15 years younger than him. His grandson (based on Fatema bensaheb’s, SKQ’s daughter’s testimony in court, which Ibrahim bhaisaheb did not disagree with) would say demeaning things about SKQ – again, not what we heard SMB say in his bayaans. So SMB did not tell him (Ibrahim BS) to shut up and not say bad things?

So all the stuff like “bairao ne shafakat ni nazar thi waat karo,” that did not apply to Ibrahim BS?

One set of rules for us and other set of rules for them? And he (SMB) did not do a clear public nass, why? Possibly because he developed a soft corner for his children/grandchildren later in life? Could it also be that SMB thought that SKQ becoming the dai was a real possibility and he wanted his family to be married to SKQ's children? Hence his wish also to marry Umema bensaheba to Aziz bhaisaheb?We probably will never know the truth, but this looks like no religion.

And who is right here? Either way, the “Imam theory” is shot  If SKQ is correct about the hatred in the family and SMB did nothing, well, that does not exactly look like a dai who could make no mistake ..

If SKQ is wrong, well, he was appointed by the Ilham of Imam-uz-zaman, so there goes the Imam-uz-zaman’s Ilham.

Looked at another way, SMB appointed SKQ as mazoom and Husain BS Husamuddin as mukasir by the Ilham of Imam-uz-zaman. Now they are on 2 different sides, so one of them is wrong. Well, the Imam/SMB made a mistake in appointing one of them, so there goes the Ilham/infallibility, sadly.

[alam]

dcp

you make reasonable points

[fayyaaz]

SMB very likely told SKQ privately ('between you and me') that SKQ would be the Dai after him. SKQ interpreted that as "Nass".

SMB was aware that his children wanted one of them, SMS, to be the Dai after him. Like any father, SMB could not escape the 'fatherly' feeling to favor his own children. Added to that was the perfectly 'human' desire to ensure that his own children inherited the vast wealth and power of Daawat.

SMB probably agreed to pronounce "nass" on SMS, but the memory of his private "pledge" to SKQ long ago put him in an uneviable dilemma. He died without resolving the dilemma.

SMB's illness allowed his children to stage-manage the "Nass on SMS" drama. SMB probably knew what was happening but his love for his children overrode any attempt he might have made to resolve his dilemma.

Both claimants for the Dai are probably correct when they both claim that they were told "privately" that they would be the next Dai. In neither case, there were "independent" witnesses. Just a theatrical pretense by SMS of the "Nass" on him.

Finally, this 'ilhaam' business is another great myth. Everyone has 'ilhaam', but for anyone to claim that the source of their 'ilhaam' is the Muslim God, Shia Mustalian Imam, previous Bohra Dai or anyone else specific has a whiff of either megalomania or self-delusion if not a bare-faced lie.

[dal-chaval-palidu]

bhai fayyaaz,

I doubt that SMB ever did any nass on SMS. I think the Raudatut tahera nass episode looks like a fraud, and the London hospital nass (especaially on Rajab 4th) appears as unlikely.

If it is confirmed that they never submitted any of those videos as proofs to the court, the question becomes why? If you think this is proof for the aam bohras, why is it not even submitted to the court?

As for SKQ, it is likely that SMB did the nass on SKQ, but I am also surprised that there are no alive independent witnesses, and no written documents and videos.

[SBM]

SMB could not escape the 'fatherly' feeling to favor his own children.

How about being a SHAFIQ BAWA to entire community?

[fayyaaz]

SMB could not escape the 'fatherly' feeling to favor his own children.

How about being a SHAFIQ BAWA to entire community?

SMB was feted like a rock-star to Bohras and, like a rock-star, he expressed 'love' for his fans. But that love is too abstract compared to the 'love for your own flesh and blood'. Hell, even Allah who is supposed to 'love' all His creation withholds love from some of His 'children' like kafirs etc.

Check out the instances of 'allahu la yuhibbu' or 'inna allaha la yuhibbu' ('God does not love') in the Quran in the following dictionary reference:

http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=Hbb

[anajmi]

And yet again the idol worshippers compare their idol to Allah. If you look at the ayahs, you will see that Allah does not love the wrong doers, the mischief makers, the arrogant.

The Dai however, loves the arrogant, mischief makers and wrong doers (Amils) since they bring him moolah and he does not love those who are unable to pay him or those that question his motives!!

[fayyaaz]

And yet again the idol worshippers compare their idol to Allah.

Comparison of Dai and Allah is exceedingly apt. They are both Gods. Allah is 'Ilahul Aalameen' and the Dai is 'Ilahul Ard'. They both have weakness for their flesh and blood. Does it not say in the Bible that "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." ?

God can bear to sacrifice His son because He knows that He can always create another one by just saying "Be". But the Dais, including SBM, are not yet claiming such powers. So he was not ready to 'sacrifice' his son in the interests of keeping the alleged pledge to SKQ intact.

[anajmi]

Actually, Dai is not God but a human. He needs to eat, drink, shit, pee, fart and needs to have sex to have kids. So anyone who thinks he is a God, which includes you, is a moron who deserves a Dai that screws him.

[HighFlyer]

And yet again the idol worshippers compare their idol to Allah.

Comparison of Dai and Allah is exceedingly apt. They are both Gods. Allah is 'Ilahul Aalameen' and the Dai is 'Ilahul Ard'. They both have weakness for their flesh and blood. Does it not say in the Bible that "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." ?

God can bear to sacrifice His son because He knows that He can always create another one by just saying "Be". But the Dais, including SBM, are not yet claiming such powers. So he was not ready to 'sacrifice' his son in the interests of keeping the alleged pledge to SKQ intact.

you must not be in your senses while typing this crap.

[alam]

SMB very likely told SKQ privately ('between you and me') that SKQ would be the Dai after him. SKQ interpreted that as "Nass".

SMB was aware that his children wanted one of them, SMS, to be the Dai after him. Like any father, SMB could not escape the 'fatherly' feeling to favor his own children. Added to that was the perfectly 'human' desire to ensure that his own children inherited the vast wealth and power of Daawat.

SMB probably agreed to pronounce "nass" on SMS, but the memory of his private "pledge" to SKQ long ago put him in an uneviable dilemma. He died without resolving the dilemma.

SMB's illness allowed his children to stage-manage the "Nass on SMS" drama. SMB probably knew what was happening but his love for his children overrode any attempt he might have made to resolve his dilemma.

Both claimants for the Dai are probably correct when they both claim that they were told "privately" that they would be the next Dai. In neither case, there were "independent" witnesses. Just a theatrical pretense by SMS of the "Nass" on him.

Finally, this 'ilhaam' business is another great myth. Everyone has 'ilhaam', but for anyone to claim that the source of their 'ilhaam' is the Muslim God, Shia Mustalian Imam, previous Bohra Dai or anyone else specific has a whiff of either megalomania or self-delusion if not a bare-faced lie.

Fayyaz makes a reasonable argument here.

[asad]

The Dai however, loves the arrogant, mischief makers and wrong doers (Amils) since they bring him moolah and he does not love those who are unable to pay him or those that question his motives!!

Dai himself is arrogant, mischief maker and wrong doer

[humanbeing]

Sticking to the topic of children and re-marriages by SMS sons. how does SKQ or SMS treat the children .. to which side are children's faith. depending on that will either party condemn them as haraam (illegitimate) keeping misaaq regulations in mind ?

What is Pro-Kothari Abde's POVs on this issue.

[allbird]

The inter marriage shows how much love and affection SKQ must have for SMB. It's a a fact that MS divorced SKQ daughter. For SKQ to have another daughter married to MS son must have been very hard and I'm sure he must have only allowed another daughter to marry into the MS family to obey the wishes of SMB. This proves the love and affection SKQ must have for SMB. On the other hand MS, having divorced the daughter of SKQ, shows his disobedience to SMB. This has been shown further in his treatment of SMB in the last 3 years to get hold of power.

qjbj,

It occurred to me that what you say is a possibility. Thanks for putting it well. After SKQ saheb saying in court that SMS and QJ has so much hatred (nafrat) for him, it is a distinct possibility that he agreed to (and his daughters agreed to) marry the sons of SMS and QJ because it was SMB's strong wish.

More and more, this is disturbing to me, as it does not cast SMB in a good light. He should have stopped the hatred for SKQ, and he did not. His word was law for the Bohras and in a few words he could have shut them off, but he chooses to remain totally silent. His son married and divorced rather casually (I hear in 2 to 3 months, and that sounds not just casual, but rather callous) SKQ’s daughter, who was 15 years younger than him. His grandson (based on Fatema bensaheb’s, SKQ’s daughter’s testimony in court, which Ibrahim bhaisaheb did not disagree with) would say demeaning things about SKQ – again, not what we heard SMB say in his bayaans. So SMB did not tell him (Ibrahim BS) to shut up and not say bad things?

So all the stuff like “bairao ne shafakat ni nazar thi waat karo,” that did not apply to Ibrahim BS?

One set of rules for us and other set of rules for them? And he (SMB) did not do a clear public nass, why? Possibly because he developed a soft corner for his children/grandchildren later in life? Could it also be that SMB thought that SKQ becoming the dai was a real possibility and he wanted his family to be married to SKQ's children? Hence his wish also to marry Umema bensaheba to Aziz bhaisaheb?We probably will never know the truth, but this looks like no religion.

And who is right here? Either way, the “Imam theory” is shot  If SKQ is correct about the hatred in the family and SMB did nothing, well, that does not exactly look like a dai who could make no mistake ..

If SKQ is wrong, well, he was appointed by the Ilham of Imam-uz-zaman, so there goes the Imam-uz-zaman’s Ilham.

Looked at another way, SMB appointed SKQ as mazoom and Husain BS Husamuddin as mukasir by the Ilham of Imam-uz-zaman. Now they are on 2 different sides, so one of them is wrong. Well, the Imam/SMB made a mistake in appointing one of them, so there goes the Ilham/infallibility, sadly.

DCP - I like your post but Rasullah (SAW) had very good THREE friends who despite so much of difference DID sacrifice their wealth for dawat and propagation of Allah religion ISLAM. They do have a HUGE followers in today's time. Yet we Shia Muslims see them as enemy of Islam and we openly say LANAT on them. Will Allah Tahalla over look their generosity and reward them Jahanam ? Allah's book Quran has answers to all questions on this earth and thereafter yet we cannot find it ? There is cure for all diseases in holy Quran and yet we cannot find it and depend on medications and researcher's from west to find cures.

Now coming to your theory of negativity. Was Dai SMB / Imam / Rasullah / Allah wrong ? SMS will prevail , SKQ will prevail , Qadiyan will prevail, Israel will prevail and all boot parash religion will prevail. So who is right and who is wrong ?

[Adam]

@humanbeing

regarding laanat, please enlighten with more information,

http://qutbibohras.blogspot.in/2014/10/ ... ation.html

[ghulam muhammed]

Are they officially divorced from the daughters of SKQ saheb? If not, in Islam don't you need the consent of the first wife before the marriage?

So Mufaddal Moula TUS married on daughter of SKQ and his son Taba BS married another sister. So in short father marries one sister and son marries another ?? Complex ......Correct me if i am wrong. One sister is step mother-in-law of another ?? .... VERY complex...

In case if you have missed it then Iam reproducing below a post written by me on the above subject some time back, :-

Satta Ka Khel- The Jig Saw Puzzle At Saifee Mahal.

The Game of MONEY and POWER is always played in its own Unique way and Saifee Mahal is a prime example. The head of the so called "Royals" who claims to be a spiritual head has always ensured that these 'duniyawi daulat" remains within its four walls and any attempt to snatch it is vigorously resisted. There is a strict rule that none of their siblings should marry any outsider lest he/she becomes its claimant. Even their second rung office Badri Mahal is a taboo which can be seen in the late mukasir's son getting married to a zaadi resulting in he being forced to live separately at badri mahal as his wife refused to leave the comforts of saifee mahal. The poor man was very mentally disturbed due to which he spent most of his time at radio club and ultimately had a silent death. There are many such cases but let us focus on mazun who in all probability was duped and dumped royally by the dai's family by involving him in this tangle of relationships.

To make it simpler let us see the below mentioned "Jig Saw Puzzle" :-

1. Mazun's eldest daughter Safia was married to MUFFY MOLA but ultimately divorced after some time. (Wonder how the ghaib na jankar didnt get the ilhm that his own son's marriage is going to fail).
2. Mazun's another daughter Taiyyaba is married to the dai's son Qusai (she is the 2nd wife).
3. Mazun's another daughter is married to MUFFY MOLA'S son.

Now this makes mazun...... the father-in-law as well as the sambdhi of Muffy as well the sambdhi of the dai. This also makes Safia the mother-in-law of her own sister and Taiyyaba becomes her own sister's kaki sasu (aunty) and Muffy's devrani. Muffy's saali is thus married to his own son so Muffy is her jijaji as well as sasraji. We can extend this jig saw puzzle even further but it seems that this small synopsis is enough for anyone to split his hair.

If the above situation takes place in an average bohra's family then he would be looked down upon but in case of these so called 'royals', abdes will sum it up as "Aaa to hikmat ni waato chhe" and "Su nirali shaan chhe". They will refuse to accept the fact that it is nothing but a game of money and power.

This also explains the reasons behind mazun being reduced to a mere silent spectator as the famous gujarati saying goes, "hoth bhi apna ane daat bhi apna".


A Hilarious explanation to the above

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcvpKPjakiU

[humanbeing]

@humanbeing

regarding laanat, please enlighten with more information,

http://qutbibohras.blogspot.in/2014/10/ ... ation.html

I care two hoots about who is throwing laanat on whom ( SMS & SKQ camps) see the irony ... how SMB's family is suffering of thier own deeds. your two comments please..

children are deemed haraam or not ? either way around .. where does children's faith tilt ? in any case, SMS and SKQ and everyone out thiere in kothar has wrecked a community and thier family is not away from the emotional pain that they caused to others. the pompous, fancy parades, the pheronic paalkhi rides , all the gold and glitters cannot replace the feeling / guilt of deception and unacceptance. money will not buy love.

the 40 days mourning of SMB's death, became a feast carnival, people attended, recited and merrily ran to form thaals .. discussing fakhera jamans and enjoing freshly brewed controversy of dawedaar and evolving mockery. the compettition amidst abdes was to outdo humor in ridiculing / mocking the dawedaar.

these whol kothari circus has made the community a joke .. SMB, SKQ or SMS .. bunch of ghaib-na-jaankaars could not clarify the leadership ahead of time. properties worth billions lay at mercy of confusing successorship drama. talwaaro chaali jaati it seems ..

[DisillusionedDB]

SMB could not escape the 'fatherly' feeling to favor his own children.

How about being a SHAFIQ BAWA to entire community?

LIKE.
His duty as a religious leader and a father figure to the entire bohra community should have been stronger than his weakness of the fatherly wish to see his (incompetent) son to inherit all the power and money.

[allbird]

So Mufaddal Moula TUS married on daughter of SKQ and his son Taba BS married another sister. So in short father marries one sister and son marries another ?? Complex ......Correct me if i am wrong. One sister is step mother-in-law of another ?? .... VERY complex...

In case if you have missed it then Iam reproducing below a post written by me on the above subject some time back, :-

Satta Ka Khel- The Jig Saw Puzzle At Saifee Mahal.

The Game of MONEY and POWER is always played in its own Unique way and Saifee Mahal is a prime example. The head of the so called "Royals" who claims to be a spiritual head has always ensured that these 'duniyawi daulat" remains within its four walls and any attempt to snatch it is vigorously resisted. There is a strict rule that none of their siblings should marry any outsider lest he/she becomes its claimant. Even their second rung office Badri Mahal is a taboo which can be seen in the late mukasir's son getting married to a zaadi resulting in he being forced to live separately at badri mahal as his wife refused to leave the comforts of saifee mahal. The poor man was very mentally disturbed due to which he spent most of his time at radio club and ultimately had a silent death. There are many such cases but let us focus on mazun who in all probability was duped and dumped royally by the dai's family by involving him in this tangle of relationships.

To make it simpler let us see the below mentioned "Jig Saw Puzzle" :-

1. Mazun's eldest daughter Safia was married to MUFFY MOLA but ultimately divorced after some time. (Wonder how the ghaib na jankar didnt get the ilhm that his own son's marriage is going to fail).
2. Mazun's another daughter Taiyyaba is married to the dai's son Qusai (she is the 2nd wife).
3. Mazun's another daughter is married to MUFFY MOLA'S son.

Now this makes mazun...... the father-in-law as well as the sambdhi of Muffy as well the sambdhi of the dai. This also makes Safia the mother-in-law of her own sister and Taiyyaba becomes her own sister's kaki sasu (aunty) and Muffy's devrani. Muffy's saali is thus married to his own son so Muffy is her jijaji as well as sasraji. We can extend this jig saw puzzle even further but it seems that this small synopsis is enough for anyone to split his hair.

If the above situation takes place in an average bohra's family then he would be looked down upon but in case of these so called 'royals', abdes will sum it up as "Aaa to hikmat ni waato chhe" and "Su nirali shaan chhe". They will refuse to accept the fact that it is nothing but a game of money and power.

This also explains the reasons behind mazun being reduced to a mere silent spectator as the famous gujarati saying goes, "hoth bhi apna ane daat bhi apna".


A Hilarious explanation to the above

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcvpKPjakiU

I like your post. Thanks for sharing