Ban all wahabis

[qutub_mamajiwala]

yes
i have been to thier madrassa
u heard it right
i have been to their madrassa for two and half years.
simply coz it was free

and yes the mullah was justifying wajabul qatl
and about stonning-- who is to prove just by 2 males testimony without any evidence.
and the evidence of women is not valid.
i have been taught this in wahabi madrassa and i swear by it.

[khokawala]

i dont know about wajibul qatl, similar fatwas were issued by ayatullahs, And since he is an apostate and maligning islam then that is a correct position according to sahih hadith. It was even implemented by the prophet pbuh himself.

reg stoning then 2 muslim witnesses of sound character PLUS evidence is required , not just witnesses.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

IF u have any doubt about it, just go to any wahabi madrasa
and see what kind of dogs excreta is taught there in the name of islam.
i purposely used word dogs excreta instead of bullshit coz latter is far better than former.
apart from their bidaa and shirk beleif ( which i agree to some extent) everything is crap
and no sane man in his right frame of mind would agree to such unnatural things.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

i am myself witness to it and it is taught
if wife does not agree to or not ready to go to bed, u can force her with words,
if that does not work, u can beat her also till she is ready

[khokawala]

thats a completely irresponsible slander, I myself have visited and attend many lectures, this is not taught, ask ANAJMI !! , GM,SBM and others, no one would agree to you.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

well it is upto u if u dont want to beleive.
but that is what literally taught and generally justified in lectures.
also it is taught, a women cannot go outside the house without the permission of male mehram.
if she does, she will be in grave sin and punishable by her husband or guardian.
in general she has no right of her own and decision has to be taken by her guardian in every matter on behalf of her.
to justify this, it is taught that men and women brains are different and think differently. men as the head of the house thinks rationally of all the memebers and takes decision for the betterment of whole house and family, and women by nature(they also give scientific justification for that) thinks by heart so cannot think rationally and what is
good for her

[khokawala]

well what if women herself enforces this condition? being a recent convert and my wife also a strict niqabi and gair maharaqm have not seen her, she was the one to convince me that niqab is fard and gair mahram cannot see. I myself was a bit suprised and could not digest these strong rules ,but I realized through authentic hadeeth that women cant be seen by gair maharam, nor can they travel alone. This was all practiced by haz fatema a.s , Ayesha etc after it was made obligatory.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

first of all it is not authentic hadeeth.
second what was done by women of that time was in compliance with the then traditions and situations.
there are other instances also when women went out. u conviniently ignore them.
third -- if women herself enforces it, then there is no issue-- it is her choice
she is completely entitled to her choice as what to wear or what to do with her life and how to live.
problem only comes when it is forced and that is exactly what is being done and generally justified as can be seen
by your post also.
alcohol is also strictly haraam. but in general lectures and sermon --the men are not admonished as much as women for not wearing niqab apart from slight remark.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

i am not saying all this hearing to propaganda of media, or reading what is written on this forum or what is said in bohra majlis.
i have read many of salafi books, have attended many of their seminars, have listened many of thier friday khutbas.
plus i have researched in my limited capacity of what is available(not on internet, that is recent--but in library written by eminent scholars) and i have come to conclusion that apart from bidaa and shirk whatever they dish out is all nonsensical and not relevant in todays world.
in fact what they are following is actually umayyads islam which the then rulers invented to suit their needs.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

they have invented many hadiths attributing to ibn huraira--glorifying themselves.
ibn huraira was a grave digger and was admonished by prophet himself. but this they conviniently ignore.
he has been known as saying authenticated by salafis also that he used to say-- it is good to pray behind ali but good
to eat at muwayias house. he was paid by muyawaia to concort all fabricated hadith. so all his hadith cannot be relied even if it is true, simply coz we there is no way to find out if prophet has said really or he is simply attributing to him to please muawiya.
prophet had vouched for abu dhars honesty and truthfullness. but he was admonished to desert by usmaan,
which even the first two did not do.
only coz he was saying the true hadith describing the fazail of ali.

[khokawala]

thats all plain white lies, infact there is not a single sahih hadith in praise of Muawiyah, the hadith scholars were insulated from these political issues and hadith science was and is always strict. It is so robust that its impossible that lies could become sahih hadith

[qutub_mamajiwala]

it is ur thinking.
i do not have anything to say to that.
but the fact remains that the scholars in previous times were indeed influenced by the regimes.
may be the scholars were not to blame per se--- i dont know.
this has happened at all times in all era. muslim era cannot be excluded from it.
the later scholars got the information from previous one and so on till the reign of ummayyads.
the situation was atleast little better in the reign of first two--there was less resentment and groupism and overall
better administration according to that period of time(i am not dealing with if they were real khalifas or not--just from historical perspective)
but everything changed in the period of third. history records of salafi also shows that period was tumoultous.
he had put non efficient person such as marwan who was lier and treachourous at the helm of affairs.
he was relative of him. he also made muawiaya governor of syria who cursed ali in namaaz(one condition of treaty imam hasan made with him was to stop that--but he retracted afterwards)
this was all not approved by ali.
many vices surfaced during his time and then he was killed, suceeded by muawaiya and then yazid.
they all tried to change the religion according to them to suit their purpose.
in between ali came for zahiri khilafat for only 4 yrs and fought 3 battles during that time.
he tried his best to regain pristine islam, but his period was short and his territory of influence was also limited
to kufa and around it. muawayia was still ruling from syria.
so the scholars were indeed influenced by him by force or by any other method.
and the later scholars took only that information simply coz that was available in abundant.
in that time information was not as easy as today to come by and real knowledge which was with progeny of ali
was limited to them and their followers. and they were always persecuted by the regime of that time , be it abbasids or any other.
it is universal truth that whatever history has been wrote under any king---most of it is to please the ruler.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

it is historical fact that when ali was martyred in masjid, and when the news spread to syria, the people were so surprised that they were asking was ali was muslim? what he was doing in masjid?
muwaiya had so much distorted facts and was cursing ali in khutbas and sermon that people started beleiving ali was not muslim and and enemy. so what would scholars in his regime write? especially when they were paid to do so?

[fayyaaz]

i am myself witness to it and it is taught
if wife does not agree to or not ready to go to bed, u can force her with words,
if that does not work, u can beat her also till she is ready

From Quran, ayat 4:34
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

Quran leaves the judgment of a wife's arrogance to her husband (as if all husbands are divinely guided. )

Thus, a Wahabi teacher might include his wife's refusal to come to bed as a display of her arrogance, and might, in the end, beat her.

If you are a 'liberal' or 'moderate' Muslim, you may choose to ignore this ayat and cherry-pick those ayats that are more to your liking.

[khokawala]

qutbi, you are seriously misinformed , there are hundreds of sahih hadith with fazail of Ali mentioned and all Muslims of that time loved Ali(AS) , you have been brainwashed by anti islamic propoganda sites. You cant find a single hadith on virtue of Muawiyah!

[fayyaaz]

qutbi, you are seriously misinformed ,....... you have been brainwashed by anti islamic propoganda sites. You cant find a single hadith on virtue of Muawiyah!

khokawala,

Why don't you ask your master anajmi if there is an alleged sahih hadith about Muawiyah.

This from an anti-shia website:

أخرج الإمام البخاري بسند صحيح في التاريخ الكبير (5|240): عن أبي مسهر حدثنا سعيد بن عبد العزيز عن ربيعة بن يزيد عن (الصحابي عبد الرحمن) بن أبي عميرة قال: قال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم لمعاوية: «اللهم اجعلهُ هادِياً مَهديّاً واهده واهدِ به».

”It was transmitted by Imam Bukhari in his “Tareekh al-kabir” (5/240) via authentic chain: From Abu Musahhar, it was reported to us by Sayed ibn Abdulaziz from Rabiat ibn Yazid from (companion Abdurrahman) ibn Abu Umeyrat, which said: Prophet (sallalahu alaihi wa ala alihi wa sallam) said about Muawiyah: “Allah, make him (Muawiya :ra: ) guided, a guider, and guide people through him”.

___
If Rasulullah prayed for Muawiyah to be guided, don't you believe that Allah would listen to him and make Muawiyah rightly-guided too.

[khokawala]

thats not a sahih hadith. It has a sahih chain. Yet I need to verify the strongness of the hadith

[fayyaaz]

thats not a sahih hadith. It has a sahih chain. Yet I need to verify the strongness of the hadith

Do that. You will also find it in the Sunnan of Tirmizi.

By the way 'strongness'? is better expressed as 'strength'. Do you know Classical Arabic?

[anajmi]

Let me give you guys some insider information about wahhabi madrassas. Wahhabi junk is normally taught only to the bohras attending wahhabi madrassas. The sabaks taught to true wahhabis are highly enlightening and top secret.

[KA786110]

Let me give you guys some insider information about wahhabi madrassas. Wahhabi junk is normally taught only to the bohras attending wahhabi madrassas. The sabaks taught to true wahhabis are highly enlightening and top secret.

So wahabi stuff is junk. Finally he sees the light.

Wahabi and enlightening is an oxymoron. They are incompatible.

[SBM]

Br Mamujiwala
What a pity
From learning in Wahaabi Madrassa,------ you end up as a Slave of Muffi's Kothar (Abde Sydena)

[anajmi]

If Rasulullah prayed for Muawiyah to be guided, don't you believe that Allah would listen to him and make Muawiyah rightly-guided too.

There is nothing wrong with that hadith. The prophet (saw) of Allah prayed for Abu Jahl to be rightly guided too. Allah says in the Quran that the prophet (saw) has been sent as a mercy to all mankind. And yet at the same time Allah talks about which and how people will be punished. Self proclaimed intellectuals should apply a little bit of that intellect before mis-understanding even the simplest of hadiths!!

Here is what Allah tells the messenger in Surah Kahf.

But wouldst thou, perhaps, torment thyself to death with grief over them if they are not willing to believe in this message?

The prophet (saw) and tormenting himself with grief because people were not listening to his message. But Allah says that only he decides who will be rightly guided and who won't be. So there is absolutely no need to doubt the authenticity of that hadith. It is completely in line with the character of the prophet (saw). Just because Muawiyah wasn't rightly guided doesn't mean the prophet (saw) did not pray for him.