Dawoodi Bohra Forum

the right to appoint the successor to the current dai rests wit the current dai as directed by the imam in seclusion

This has no basis in the quran or the sunnah of the prophet. This is a story created by the Dais to cling onto the throne. Did Hazrat Ali appoint his successor? The jews claim the exact same thing that the prophet has to be a jew. That is the reason they rejected Prophet Muhammed (saw). Islam is not the property of any individual or any single family. Every muslim has just as much stake in it.

according to shia ethos hazrat ali appointed imam hasan as his successor prior to his martyrdom-we are as much entitled to shia faith as some maybe to ultra wahibism

according to shia ethos hazrat ali appointed imam hasan as his successor

Can you provide any evidence for this?

I love this quote by Aqa Maula's abde

Smart....I m sure Syedna knows about some of the corrupt Amils....but there are a lot of Haqiqi reasons for not taking any action.....even Prophet (SAW) had kept the 3 Khalifas with him knowing all what is going to happen.....so might question that as well

Now we know whom to send laanat on during Ramadan.

Smart....I m sure Syedna knows about some of the corrupt Amils....but there are a lot of Haqiqi reasons for not taking any action.....even Prophet (SAW) had kept the 3 Khalifas with him knowing all what is going to happen.....so might question that as well

That doesnt verify anything. First off, theres no proof which shows that the Prophet PBUH was tolerating the 3 kaliphas all his life. Maybe he knew what was going to happen maybe not. Point is he needed their support in all the campaigns and shit.

But we all know what attitude the Prophet PBUH had towards known hypocrites. So why doesnt the Syedna do something.

Its not as easy as you think, there are too many power bases which will need to be dismantled but it will happen, just wait watch this space, the currupt will be sorted - inshallah

ofcourse its not easy...the Syedna's age is 94 years. Whatever he could have done he should have done a long time ago.

EAW: on one hand you agree, there is corruption and that too rampant. Corruption is trickling down, upper echelons are more corrupt than the lower one. On the other hand you say it will be sorted out. But question arises, when syedna saheb's family is corrupt, and due to seclusive reasons syedna saheb cannot do any thing. So how will this corruption end and who will end it. Amils are told that they should behave like governers. Actually amil means governer. They are told to be faithful to their base, but do not care about the ordinary beings.

Look you have to admit, that due to material corruption, it has crept into our religion too. You will admit that they quote quranic verses out of context in favour of their contention. I have heard one amil quoting an ayah, which contained word Burhan, burhan in arabic means hujjat (proof), but he made a point a that Syedna saheb's name is mentioned in quran. I am sure, as all narration by every amil has to be submitted to vazarat, they would have known. I think quoting such refrences specially quranic ones are religiously and morally very unethical. By doing this the authencity of religion is also lost.

There are a few Amils who are currupt and thick, who think giving this blasphemous views will take them high on the leadership echelons but they are wrong and stupid and should be sorted out.

atleast u accept this....acceptance of a vice is the first step towards reform. If you want to break out of prison first you have to realise that you are in one.

Whenever there is a wrong than its natural you accept it but you lot are stuck in your seventies rhetorics , you do not seem to understand that things are difeerent and people do speak out , unless you are inside you understand the system but you guys stay outside and make assumptions which are all hearsay

East Africawalla wrote:Whenever there is a wrong than its natural you accept it but you lot are stuck in your seventies rhetorics , you do not seem to understand that things are difeerent and people do speak out , unless you are inside you understand the system but you guys stay outside and make assumptions which are all hearsay

.
East Africawala

Please understand, that it is because there is corruption on the higher level, so it is on a lower level. You cannot disintegrate these two levels... they are self-complimentary, they work hand in hand.

For cure, one has to go to the roots, and this case it is Kothar, Syedna and his family, who are responsible for the mess we are in, unless that is sorted out, you will not see any change in the lower levels ie aamils etc.

Just think..... why would an aamil try being good, when he knows well how corrupt his higher-ups are?

Its a pity that you and Zulfikar are not politically aware, instead of solving at a local level you quicky put the blame on Syedna thus alienating all the people thus not solving the problem, are you sure you are not paid up agents to distract people bringing up issues at local levels and thus suppressed.

With your attitude towards Syedna you have kept the community at a stage of siege therefore nobody can raise any voice because they could be counted ad Molas dushman, I think you are the real enemies of the mainstream people

You sound exactly as Zulfikar Henchmen

Its a pity that you and Zulfikar are not politically aware, instead of solving at a local level you quicky put the blame on Syedna thus alienating all the people thus not solving the problem, are you sure you are not paid up agents to distract people bringing up issues at local levels and thus suppressed.

With your attitude towards Syedna you have kept the community at a stage of siege therefore nobody can raise any voice because they could be counted ad Molas dushman, I think you are the real enemies of the mainstream people

You sound exactly as Zulfikar Henchmen

East Africawalla wrote:Its a pity that you and Zulfikar are not politically aware, instead of solving at a local level you quicky put the blame on Syedna thus alienating all the people thus not solving the problem, are you sure you are not paid up agents to distract people bringing up issues at local levels and thus suppressed.

With your attitude towards Syedna you have kept the community at a stage of siege therefore nobody can raise any voice because they could be counted ad Molas dushman, I think you are the real enemies of the mainstream people

You sound exactly as Zulfikar Henchmen

EA

You have a lot of growing up before you understand this simple truth.... How can you solve any issues at the local level when it has strong backing from the head quarters? The higher ups are the real culprits.

For a change, why doesn't Syedna change his attitude towards his own community? Why even at an age of 98, he's hell bent on carrying on his loot? Why does he not instruct his corrupt kids to mend their ways? Being the head of our community, if you hold him responsible for the progress (Only wealth wise) then why not for all the evils??

The question is always whats the best way to solve the problem, your way of slagging of Syedna has been detrimental to the cause as this currupt guys will quickly sideline you once you come out as Syedna's dushman , they use Syednas name for their own greed and keeping the status quo so lets be real your way has not helped.

You need to grow up and understand politics , may be you are naive in your thinking

We must UNDERSTAND this clearly:

There is nothing Divine in Bohraism ........ it is no religion, it is a cult, a Royal Family as best. And there is No Imamat and there is No Imam ...... Do not compare this with Prophets, or Ahl-Bait or alike.

This is a corrupt and power-and-money-hungry family who have hijacked an Social, Non-for-Profit Organization once upon a time known as Dawoodi or at best only Bohras. Like any other organization or region or country, these people have managed to thurst upon people their fat asses..!!! and people have accepted it, and are passive now, so they are ruling.

Who will be next Imam? or Dai?? What is the status of Mazoon or Mukasir, this is all politics and will be decided by the Ruling Family. Conditions and Circumstances will dictate the next move these guys will make. There will be heated discussions, negotiations, bargaining and a power-sharing agreement will be reached and disclosed and implemented.

East Africawalla wrote:The question is always whats the best way to solve the problem, your way of slagging of Syedna has been detrimental to the cause as this currupt guys will quickly sideline you once you come out as Syedna's dushman , they use Syednas name for their own greed and keeping the status quo so lets be real your way has not helped.

You need to grow up and understand politics , may be you are naive in your thinking

EA

You are right, I never understood politics.... It could perhaps be understood by people who are manipulative... I don't know.

I stick to my stand, The head of this cult has to take the blow, If he's taking the credit for the so-called progress in our community, then he should equally be responsible for corruption and all other evils prevailing currently.

NO, he will not take the responsibilty of corruption and ills of the community. For that you have to be great and he aien't..!!!!

He is the leader of a cult, as good as an ordinary politician, do not expect him to be a statesman......!!!!!!!

JC, You do not understand do you, you are in the same group as LM and Zulfikar, you think by slagging off the leader you will have change , you are just talkers with no clue what you want as a end game- typical

Look guys, EAW has a point. what is happening is, in the middle of an argument someone just sidetracks it by slugging syedna, it becomes slug fest and that's it. if at all, one could refrain from dragging syedna in, then every argument wil be valid. Syedna saheb right now has no input, or even before his input was little. EAW is right, he cant do much to eliminate corruption. Right now the only relevant people are his sons and to some extent mazoon saheb. Others include various managers and jamea stalwart.

If we are ever to stop this brazen thuggery in the name of religion and syedna, we shall have to carry the point again and again, that it is his family who is misusing religion and benefitting from it. Syedna saheb's family has to carry the blame of using syedna's name for their own personal and commercial benefit. we really have to drive this point home time and again.

Thanks AC , finally the point is getting through

Maybe the Syedna can change or maybe he cannot ...most likely cannot each passing day...but fact is that even if he is innocent in all this then he can speak up ...atleast speak up he goes on air almost regularly and then he can say whatever he wants. It is a pity if his family is using him and he cannot do anything but thats hardly the point.
im sure if the syedna himself is innocent and his family is the culprit then he can go live on air and give some proofs and a million ppl would tear down the saifee mahal to rescue him....

Look Guys, you all have a point, so first lets join all the points so that ultimately there is only one point and from there we can begin our journey of reform. Otherwise every one who comes here is bent on proving his/her point and that's it (kutra ni dum tedi ne tedige rehse). So let's first agree on all the things that we all agree upon and work from there. Otherwise, this forum is just a waste of time and effort. First of, we all know that there are serious issues in our community - financial, ritual, etc., etc. Let's first face one at a time, and for God's sake stop pointing - who to blame - rather, start looking at how to correct. There should be a forum here where Bohra's from each and every jamaat should openly comment about the affairs (financial, for example) in their jamaat. In USA, UK, India, Africa, Pakistan and trickle it down to each mohalla wise jamaat. Let everyone give a detail report here. We could lay down some strategy to counter these issues and Inshahallah, if our Niyat is clean then Allah will surely help us find the right path. However, if you are here only for time pass, then please keep your comments to yourselves and thanks. May Allah grant shifa-e-kulli to our Maula and to all Mumineen, Ameen. Nara-e-Takbeer ALLAH-O-AKBAR!
Regards
Ijtehadi

Ijtehadi, I agree with you completely. As for EAW, for all his faults and double-speak, he has a point. Sayedna Saheb as the head honcho cannot be absolved of blame - everybody knows that and there's no point in belabouring the same point again and again. It is true that freelance reformists on this forum most of the time indulge in such blame game. Calling Sayedna names and Bohras stupid is hardly the best approach to win support. As reformists our focus should be on change and reforms as Ijtehadi has pointed out - particularly on thinking of ways and strategies on how we can reach of to common Bohra, how we can help them organise and find courage to stand up to the local Aamil. The real change will come from the grassroots. (Starting a forum for each jamaat is a great idea). When revolt starts springing up from every jamaat, the corrupt clergy will have to take notice. It's only people's power that will bring change - this is the bottom line. It is really stupid to insult and demean the very people who will eventually bring about the change. As reformists we are supposed to be smart, let's not fall for the cheap tricks of agent provocateurs who come here to excite us into irresponsible behaviour.

bravo!!

Finally you are getting my point of view but the key mesage is if you slag Syedna than you are on a lost cause, you will have zero support, so the senior member of this forum neds to educate a few

EAW, your "point of view" is unique in only that it comes from an "insider". Otherwise reformists - officially and on the street - have always believed in talking about issues. A real reformist will never call Sayedna names, even though knowing fully well that he and his corrupt system is behind the ills facing the community. Those who abuse Sayedna are almost invariably the frustrated "insiders" - or freelance reformists without any affiliations to reformist jamaat - who are fed up with the system and come here to vent their anger. One can understand their anger and frustration but unwittingly they end up giving reformists a bad name.

Humsafar:
Read my previous comments. Let's stop name calling and finger pointing. Leave the judging part to Allah, who has reserved a special day for that, called THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT - the day when He will judge who is right or who is wrong. Until then let's together do our part - reform - first ones ownself and then the rest. If you want to do the balancing act, then we all are wasting our time. Let's get a little mature and deal with this situation with passion. This is our Religion we are talking about not some politcal forum. Do treat this as a change - YES WE CAN! Please don't treat this place as a spitting spot - you spit on me I'll spit on you - and move on. No. Let's do this right, not just for us but for our coming generations.

I appeal to all of you - Progressive and Orthodox - if you are here, then be here for a cause - a Sacred Cause, not with a vengeance or with a trick up your sleeve. May Allah grant Naek Taufeeq to all of us, Ameen. Nara-e-Takbeer: ALLAH-O-AKBAR!!!!

OK agreed, let us start. YOu have a suggestion, we are all ears.

Let me start, I did not go for takhmeen during the period and on the date assigned. I was called, I said that I will come as and when suits me. Amil told one of my friend, that who ever is doing it, he has committed a sin. I called him and told him he is wrong.

I think I did the right thing, now may I suggest you that you call mississauga amil and second me and tell him point blank that he is dead wrong. And he is no one to declare sinner, let it be reserved for the judgment day.

let us start.