Maatam for mind control and subjugation..

[Admin]

We agree with Biradar, what to delete and what not delete is a tough task and we do not want to be burdened with that decision all the time. Besides such an exercise can become arbitrary and may ultimately lead to censorship. Also, it is not feasible for us to closely monitor each and every thread. Our policy has always been of minimal interference unless things get out of hand and people become abusive. The responsibility of keeping topics on track falls on all participants, not just the Admin. First, don't post that is not relevant to the topic. Second, if anyone does then just ignore that post. But given the nature of discussions that take place, sometimes good debates result form topics that have strayed from the original subject. Our advice is to all of you is to use your judgment and only write on topic.
And anajmi can we pls request you not to bring in the shia-sunni angle every time. You have to understand as porus says that most of the Bohra and Shia topics are discussed within the framework of the Bohra/Shia doctrine which is a given, and understood as such by all participants. The fundamentals have been questioned before - ad nauseum - and you can keep questioning them but only on their own separate threads.
Hope everybody will understand and cooperate. Thank you and a very Happy New Year to all.

[Al Zulfiqar]

porus,

i was not trying to disparage you, just pointing out to biradar to direct his comments to the right person. i was only someone seconding your sound proposal.

i have always admired your contributions to this forum, one of the few people i actually respect here who has something scholarly and meaningful to contribute and from whom i genuinely have learnt a lot. having said that, biradar has a point when he appeals to the 'thinkers' to rise above their base impulses and not get diverted by fools who wish to bring every discussion down to their street level 'miyabhai' thinking, which is where their comfort zone resides.

to bring the focus back to maatam as a form of mind control and enslavement, if you reflect, you will easily see that those of refinement and higher sensibilities will balk as much about self-inflictment of violence as they would do inflicting it on others. by enslaving us mentally and addicting us to maatam as a sadistic pain-pleasure exercise, we as a community have been subtly readied to engage in violence and perhaps a time will come soon when that willingness to indulge in acts of violence as a means of providing khushi to a higher authority, will affect our youth and they might act on these violent urges to inflict violence on those who disagree with them or humanity at large.

by unleashing these dark forces, the kothar may find one day that the tiger will turn upon its own captors and unleash its terror indiscriminately when unleashed.

[anajmi]

And anajmi can we pls request you not to bring in the shia-sunni angle every time.

Admin,

I promise not to bring this up unless someone else brings it up first. I then promise to respond if I need to. So my request to the rest of the participants would be to never bring up the shia sunni angle.

[ghulam muhammed]

Four years after the battle of Karbala , the Shia of Kufa attempted to make ammends for their desertion of Hussain (a.s.) on the battlefield (which resulted in his death). They called themselves the Al-Tawwabun, which translates to “the Penitents.” This group went to Karbala to comemmorate Hussain (a.s.), and here it was that they began Matam, with loud mourning, lamenting, and self-flagellation. These Tawwabun hit themselves to punish themselves for the cowardice that they had shown that led to their Imam’s death just four years earlier. This is the origin of the Shia ritual of Matam according to some historians.

[Al Zulfiqar]

Four years after the battle of Karbala , the Shia of Kufa attempted to make ammends for their desertion of Hussain (a.s.) on the battlefield (which resulted in his death). They called themselves the Al-Tawwabun, which translates to “the Penitents.” This group went to Karbala to comemmorate Hussain (a.s.), and here it was that they began Matam, with loud mourning, lamenting, and self-flagellation. These Tawwabun hit themselves to punish themselves for the cowardice that they had shown that led to their Imam’s death just four years earlier. This is the origin of the Shia ritual of Matam according to some historians.

in the case of the present day bohras who are starting to get more and more violent and exhibitionist in their self-flagellation type of maatam, it is also a similar example to the tawabbun.

the tawabbun of old were regretting their cowardice and attempting to purge their guilt at the slaughter of the righteous and the innocent, the bohras are accepting and secretly admitting their cowardice against fighting the evils and slavery being imposed on them by the kothar which is increasing by the day, and by extension they also tacitly agree that if they existed at the time of the battle of kerbala, they would have run for 'dem far distant hills like the chickens that they are. in fact you would have seen only yellow at the backs of their white saayas, presumably from the extremely panicky reactions and loss of control over their... ahem...

zaalim par to ghussa nikaal nahi sakte, abhi khud ko maar kar apni sharm chupa rahe hai..

[Al Zulfiqar]

the silence of the fanatic abdes on this thread is eloquent..

[Smart]

^
and deafening.

[Al Zulfiqar]

the last few weeks on this board have amply demonstrated the extent by which highly impressionable and vulnerable minds can be cleverly subjugated, manipulated, brainwashed and provoked in blindly following their master's orders by employing senseless rituals like doing violent maatam umpteen times a day, which has degenerated from a sincere, dignified and restrained demonstration of grief to a mere mockery and where the act overtakes the intent. little do the hapless zombies realise that they are being used and abused mentally and physically and deprived of their right to reason and self-respect.

the onslaught of jaahils like haqqun nisf, gaysammydude, and others of their ilk here and the depths to which they go to defend crooks, shows how much their brains have been reduced to jelly in direct proportion to the amount of self-flagellation that they are made to inflict upon themselves.

it is well-said that those whom the gods wish to destroy, they are first made mad, or as the idiom goes in sanskrit : "vinaash kale viparit buddhi". when the time for those whose destruction is near, that is the time when their minds function without sense.

the whole bunch of immature and arrogant, ill-bred and rude young abde puppies here are doing a superb job of highlighting this fact. they think that they are causing a huge ruckus and commotion and by using illogical arguments coupled with gaali-galoch etc are making us scared or wanting to retreat. nothing can be further from the truth. in fact, their sickness is the best advertisement for the slavery of the fanatic abdes and the freedom that this forum provides them. here they are enjoying the freedom to differ, to question, to abuse and to yell, freedoms which their ortho sites and their jamaats cannot provide them.

[questions]

Very well said, Al Zulfiqar.

On a related note, can anyone confirm if the Sulemani Bohras do matam ? It was interesting to read of their small numbers and larger contribution to civil society elsewhere on this forum.

[Smart]

Completely agree with AZ. They are self destructing. The only problem is that like the Bourbons of France their forthcoming destruction is not visible to them. Their divinity prevents them from observing the asaar.

[Hussain_KSA]

Very well said, Al Zulfiqar.

On a related note, can anyone confirm if the Sulemani Bohras do matam ? It was interesting to read of their small numbers and larger contribution to civil society elsewhere on this forum.

Brother Questions.

Yes they do. They do arranges Majalis during Muharram and othe occassions and their Matam is symbolic. No PURJOSH matam. In Mansooriya city of Najran provience (south of Saudi Arabia) their 50th Dai address the Majalis during Ashra of Muharram. Rest all the rituals are same except the chain of Dai broken from 27th Dai.

Best regards

[like_minded]

Fully agree with Bro Al-Zulfikar!

[Al Zulfiqar]

i have known a few sulaimani bohras in india. actually for a long time i thought they were just muslims, sunni maybe. they keep a low profile in the sense that they do not wear their suleimani or whatever identity in a manner that its-in-your-face.

only later did i discover what their faith is. as i understood, they do observe moharram and ashura, but their maatam is very restrained, dignified and sincere, as bro. hussain_ksa mentions. in fact that is how we performed maatam among bohras in the past. we as a community were known as moderates, as rational and intelligent people, known for our shrewd pragmatic approach to all things in life, whether spiritual, religious, material or social. other communities looked up to us and sought our advice, respected and admired us for our common-sensical and wise ways of doing things. we were never in-your-face as we are now, loud, shrill, greedy for food or material comforts. we were low profile as traders are, well-adjusted and easily blended in.

in fact, and i have said this before, during british rule, if there was a minor dispute or skirmish between non-bohras of a particular area, the british magistrate would enquire if there was any bohra merchant in that neighbourhood, invite him over and ask him for his version of events and his opinion and then make his ruling! such was the respect for our honesty and wisdom even among the brits. compare that what we have been perverted into today. we are still a friendly and hospitable people and deep in our core, loving and mild, but for all,external purposes, we have become full of hatred for others, incl. those who wish to see reform in the way we conduct ourselves and our affairs. we stand out like a sore thumb. our women have been driven inside homes, isolated and brainwashed, somehow made backward and denigrated, we take great pride in being loud and vociferous in uttering abuse and laanats against everyone else, as the abde brigade is so well demonstrating on this forum. we have lost our reason, have become materialistic and unduly competitive, trying to curry favor and attempting to buy false and useless titles. we have lost our humanity and everything revolves around only syedna and jamaat.

an entire community which was outward looking, modern and liberal, has been pushed into the dark ages, made inward looking, isolated and transformed, nay mutated, into some strange, bearded, sayaa’s flapping in the wind fanatic creatures, who are no longer fun-loving and adaptable, but bitter and resentful of others. We are like any other militant class of people. Look around you at the RSS extremist hindus, or the overly fanatic born again Christians, or the zionist settler zealots with murder in their hearts, they are all bitter, full of anger and hatred, ready to abuse, pillage and act like murderous heathens. Now compare them with our fanatic abdes and …..do you see a resemblance?

We are enchained to the extent that all artistic or creative talent, whether in literature, music, arts, sports and media is discouraged and frowned upon. That is why you will never find bohras in such fields, maybe a rare one strayed into it in the past. In fact any free thought or word is suppressed and every endeavour is only chanelled into doing petty business or whatever mundane things we need we need to do to make money. There is no altruism in our lives, no philantrophy, no world vision, no figures iike Mandela or mother teresa will ever be produced under such a regime.

Prominent suleimanis like maqbool fida hussain, dr. salim ali, and Fakhruddin ali ahmed can never be produced by our narrow minded and selfish community. Individuals may exist, but as a community we are doomed to a life of eat, worship, earn, pay obesiance and be a slave.

What this new abde kids on the block here don’t realize is the laughing stock they are making of themselves. They are a perfect example of the moral and spiritual degeneration of our community and the depths to which we have fallen today. Look at their manners, their rude and aggressive speech, their closed and arrogant mental attitudes, their arrogance inspite of their obvious ignorance.. !!!

Now what more can one say about these violent chest beaters whose brains have turned to jelly? For whom expressing gham-e-hussain is to make a big show, scream and dance in circles, intersperse their nonsense with cries of allegiance to syedna and shred their clothes and minds?

[ghulam muhammed]

Bro Al Zulfiqar,

Very well said.

[Smart]

Bro AZ,
I had tears in my eyes on reading your post. How true! What a pathetic condition the community has been reduced to.

[questions]

Thank you for your responses, brothers Hussain and Al Zulfiqar.

A sobering analysis, to be sure. One can only pray that people read and reflect on this site.

[Al Zulfiqar]

bros. gm, smart and questions,

thanks for your replies and comments.

have you noticed that the ill-behaved and uncivilised rude abde puppies avoid posting on this thread? they have nothing to say and are running scared from the facts.

[Al Zulfiqar]

i wud like to invite on behalf of all reformists, the abde khaal donors and mad chest beaters to contribute to this thread and provide their invaluable intellectual comments.

gay sammy dude, haggun nisf, admirror, frog, pig, bird etc, we miss you here. please kuck karam karo..

[Al Zulfiqar]

i wud like to invite on behalf of all reformists, the abde khaal donors and mad chest beaters to contribute to this thread and provide their invaluable intellectual comments.

gay sammy dude, haggun nisf, admirror, frog, pig, bird etc, we miss you here. please kuch idhar bhi karam karo..

i forgot, abdes only come when there is labrez jaman. so abdes there is ziyafat tonight on this thread. all those who contribute will get to hog. no salaams or saaya topi dhadi required. even your torn chaddi will do.

[like_minded]

Bro Al-Zulfikar

That was the best post I've ever read on this forum!!! Well done!!!! God bless you and your family!!!

[Al Zulfiqar]

thank you LM for your kind words.

[Al Zulfiqar]

aaaaaaa hu dekhu che su, ke maara pyara farzando, maara abde momino, aa ziyafat maa aawwathi jhijhak kare che. em soche che ke ema thi hamne su malse? to e misal araz che ke..

mari jootiyon waste khaal aapwawala momin, aa umda ziyafat ma 4 lazeez kharaas ane 4 mithaas piraswama aavse, eni saathe 2 kism na mazedaar taaza phalon na aseer, ane khasusi taaza sitafal/lychee ni icecream, jena upar tamara bawa shafiq ni dua na sabab malai ane magziyat chidakwama aavse, 2 kism na jaman, sukka mewaa ane zaafrani benarasi paan ane atturat pesh farmawa ma aavse. 3 thaal ek na baad ek em misal tabdeel karwama aavse.

Jaman pehla gham ni majlis ane aakherat ne halawi de evu purjosh maatam, je sakhliyon ane chakuon thi anjaam karwama aavse, ek kalaak sudhi qaid johar ni khud-mukhtiyari ma thase. qaid johar ye aa mauka par hajri no paigaam moklayo chhe, je najwatus salaam 52 lakh rupiya + ek varas sudhi mafat tasbih and atturat par mukammal thayu chhe. Emni ta'qayamat talak adult diapers ni darkhwast ne hame manzoor kidhi chhe.

Abde syedna ne iltimass chhe ke ek jori qaumi libaas ziyada lawe, ke aap khoon thi labrez libaas e anwar maatam baad badli sake.

ziyafat jaman baad inshallah, sabak ane taaweel nu bayan mukarrar chhe, jema arso daraaz thai jaase. to jo tamara dil ma valvalo hoi, to yahan zalzalo kari nakhjo, evi dili itlemas.

[Al Zulfiqar]

arey kahan gaya saghla abde, aa thread par awwathi darey chhe? ke apna khaal ni jooti banawwa gaya chhe?

[merchant786]

Excellent Zulfiqar bhai,

You have made a wound in the abdes and now they are gone to get the shifa from the syedna...

Dont worry they will view but not write as they are of that kind ....not by blood but by character....

I really liked your posts in this thread...

[Al Zulfiqar]

Excellent Zulfiqar bhai,

You have made a wound in the abdes and now they are gone to get the shifa from the syedna...

Dont worry they will view but not write as they are of that kind ....not by blood but by character....

I really liked your posts in this thread...

thanks merchant.

none of the abdes have dared to post on this thread. it is their motto that they seek knowledge only from stupid people, so they have taken permanent residence in jamiyatus saifeeyah in surat. coming here would violate that motto.

[Smart]

^
I just realised that this Institute of higher ignorance (not learning) has become "jahalatus saifiyah" after the aalims were insulted and removed.
Their motto as expounded by HN Bhai Saheb is "Seek knowledge only from fools". Intelligent people who ask questions, will be kicked, spat upon and thrown out.

How things are falling into place, canny isn't it?

[Human]

Regarding this 'Mulla factory' aka Jaa-miya-tu-seekh-ke-aa (kaise in andhe logo ko lutna hai), I have a question. Long ago when I got the privilege of visiting this fool producing institute I saw a swimming pool there. I wonder if all the would be mullas keep their 'komi-libaas' and topi on while going for a swim. As I've seen the would be mullas and would be mullanis playing cricket, tennis, etc in the grounds behind with topi, kurta, rida on.

[Human]

Or maybe its a big hoj for doing vuzu

[like_minded]

Or maybe its a big hoj for doing vuzu

Ha ha ha ha ... Good one!!!

I'd be some sight to watch these bearded apes (would be mullahs) take a plunge in the swimming pool.... speaking to each other in lisan-e-dawat and discussing/praising their master... aa moula ni shaan ane dua chhe ke apan sagla aa noorani pani ma swimming kari rahya che.... ane ehni mazaa uthavi rahya chhe.

Aa paani to moula na mubarak aasu che... je moula imam hussain na gham ma bahavi rahya che..... they'll start singing ghanu jeevo ghanu jeevo followed by marasiya and purjosh matam........

[Al Zulfiqar]

Or maybe its a big hoj for doing vuzu

Ha ha ha ha ... Good one!!!

I'd be some sight to watch these bearded apes (would be mullahs) take a plunge in the swimming pool.... speaking to each other in lisan-e-dawat and discussing/praising their master... aa moula ni shaan ane dua chhe ke apan sagla aa noorani pani ma swimming kari rahya che.... ane ehni mazaa uthavi rahya chhe.

Aa paani to moula na mubarak aasu che... je moula imam hussain na gham ma bahavi rahya che..... they'll start singing ghanu jeevo ghanu jeevo followed by marasiya and purjosh matam........

i have actually seen the zaadas and zaadis swimming in the pool at my aunt's palatial house in africa. they had invited themselves for a day of fun and frolic followed by ziyafat of course. although both my aunt and uncle were absolutely against it, they had no choice. i was able to hide and peek from one of the higher level bedrooms and saw the zaadis splashing about in their ridaas! it was a most ridiculous sight. later they even went into the sauna with their ridaas on. dont know if they took them off inside, but i wondered at how enslaved they are to this stupid dress code, how many opportunities we are made to lose by this hideous anachronism in a modern age. its like putting yrself in chains and being held back while the world moves ahead at lighning speed.

i was expecting them any minute to break out into maatam and the pool to overflow with their crocodile tears.