Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Tumharey liye tumhara rasta (which is obvious hell) ..Mere liye mera rasta..

Zahra

Those worshipper of others like Maulana, Aga khan, Ali, Hussain etc etc try to hide behing Surah Kafiroon without understang that it is addressed to Kafirs, that is non belivers in Islam not biddati within Islam,

Wasalaam

[quote]Now I am asking you to get me one evidence where Islam allows celebrating birthdays..

And if its allowed,I wonder why Milaad-un-Nabi dint have such grand functions as those for maula?
Or do you guys consider maula higher the the RASOOL????...Astagfirullah...Zahra"

According to ijmaa, whatever is not forbidden is allowed, If celebrating birthday is not forbidden then it is allowed. Bidah is just another innovation by followers of abdul wahab like you rightly pointed out other innovations. Innovation is not such bad thing if it does not contradict spirit of Islam.
We in dawoodi bohra faith do not regard Sahee (bukhari, Muslim etc) as our source of Prophet's sunnah. I will quote you some hadiths from different Sahee

“My sayings do not abrogate the word of Allah, but the word of Allah can abrogate my sayings.”
(Al-Mishkat al-Masabih 1:6 - iii)

“When I order you anything respecting religion receive it, and when I order anything about the affairs
of the world, I am no more than a man”. (Al-Mishkat al-Masabih 1:6 - i)

If Allah has not forbidden something prophet will not.

Here is a hadith from Sahee Bukhari
Anas:
The climate of Medina did not suit some people, so the Prophet ordered them to follow his
shepherd, i.e. his camels, and drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they followed the
shepherd that is the camels and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy… (7.590).

I have no comments on this, it is self describing how sashee it could be.
celebrating Syedna Saheb's salgirah is not a bidaa or sin, though it may be argued why is so much extravagance .

Sis Zahra,

Thank you for the wonderful translation. Its true Bohrism is not following the path of Islam. However the people who you are talking to (Progpigs, Murtaza2152 etc) are completely brainwashed and fanatics. They lives revolve around their More La and nothing else. This is no different with regard to an Idol worshipper. Take a look at the Hindus..Their idols are the gods on Earth and the same goes for Bohras. Look at how their raise their hands infront of the More La and literally worship him. They have no problem doing Sajda to him and kissing his feet. Ask these fanatics what are the 5 basic pillars of Islam and they are so brainwashed that they have even incorporated the element of their Dai in them!(Read Arzis to Dai, 2 rakat Namaz for Dai, Zakat or Waajebat calculated according to their Amils and Bhaisahebs instead of the 2.5% of their incomes, Fasts for the Maula and their 'hajj' in Raudhat Tahera and Ziyafats of More La) Their lives start with him and end with him. They call him "God on Earth".
Ask them how many times Allah name is spoken as compared to the More La in their households and you will wonder who is the supreme of them. They have gone to the extend of questioning the authenticity of the Word of Allah - The Holy Quran and compared it with More La.

You know as human beings everyone has a choice to either choose to believe in Allah or not. The issue is when this "cult" also claim to be Muslims. As a Muslim I find that offensive as there is No God except Allah and there is no one to whom you can pray to or ask for guidance except Almighty Allah. He is the giver of all and he and he alone will decide if one will go to Jaanat or not. Its really a sad state of affairs.

how progs gonna celebrate bd of their dai? whats the plan?

Idont agree with progs..................nonethe less................milad mubarak

Muslim First wrote:

Tumharey liye tumhara rasta (which is obvious hell) ..Mere liye mera rasta..

Zahra

Those worshipper of others like Maulana, Aga khan, Ali, Hussain etc etc try to hide behing Surah Kafiroon without understang that it is addressed to Kafirs, that is non belivers in Islam not biddati within Islam,

Wasalaam

Kafir literally means a ‘denier’..
Who deny to follow the sayings of the our rasool..
Who deny the sayings of the Quran..
Those who do Shirq..(Shirk - Associating someone or something to Allah)
Therefore the Kafir is: 'The one who does not believe in Islam and the Prophet Muhammad (saw)...

The kafir Murtad a person who was a Muslim once but committed one or more of the actions below:

(a) Al-Juhoud - To deny any obligation known by necessity

(b) Al-Istihlaal - To permit what Allah (swt) forbids or forbids what Allah permits

Istihlaal is to permit what Allah forbids or vice versa. An example of this is the one who permits fornication or forbids. The one who commits Istihlaal is called Al-Mustahil (legislator).

(c) Al-Naaqid - Negations of the Deen


There are many more wchich comes under KAAFIR...

accountability wrote:

Now I am asking you to get me one evidence where Islam allows celebrating birthdays..

And if its allowed,I wonder why Milaad-un-Nabi dint have such grand functions as those for maula?
Or do you guys consider maula higher the the RASOOL????...Astagfirullah...Zahra"

According to ijmaa, whatever is not forbidden is allowed, If celebrating birthday is not forbidden then it is allowed. Bidah is just another innovation by followers of abdul wahab like you rightly pointed out other innovations. Innovation is not such bad thing if it does not contradict spirit of Islam.
We in dawoodi bohra faith do not regard Sahee (bukhari, Muslim etc) as our source of Prophet's sunnah. I will quote you some hadiths from different Sahee

“My sayings do not abrogate the word of Allah, but the word of Allah can abrogate my sayings.”
(Al-Mishkat al-Masabih 1:6 - iii)

“When I order you anything respecting religion receive it, and when I order anything about the affairs
of the world, I am no more than a man”. (Al-Mishkat al-Masabih 1:6 - i)

If Allah has not forbidden something prophet will not.

Here is a hadith from Sahee Bukhari
Anas:
The climate of Medina did not suit some people, so the Prophet ordered them to follow his
shepherd, i.e. his camels, and drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they followed the
shepherd that is the camels and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy… (7.590).

I have no comments on this, it is self describing how sashee it could be.
celebrating Syedna Saheb's salgirah is not a bidaa or sin, though it may be argued why is so much extravagance .

BUT...According to the Holy Quran, wasting money is not allowed..

“and waste not by extravagance. Verily, He likes not Al‑Musrifoon (those who waste by extravagance)”

[al-An’aam 6:141]

“And give to the kinsman his due and to the Miskeen (poor) and to the wayfarer. But spend not wastefully (your wealth) in the manner of a spendthrift.

27. Verily, the spendthrifts are brothers of the Shayaateen (devils), and the Shaytaan (Devil‑Satan) is ever ungrateful to his Lord”
[al-Isra’ 17:26, 27]

Extravagance means spending too much money on permissible things, and waste means spending money on things that are inappropriate. .. (like spending on birthdays,buying fireworks for birthdays,etc..)

Examples of extravagance include: buying something decorative for hundreds of riyals, because adornment is allowed but paying a lot of money for it is blameworthy extravagance.

An example of waste is buying something that is of no value or that will not last, for a large amount of money.

This, like the example given above, comes under the heading of wasting money that is forbidden in Islam: “Allaah hates three things for you: gossip, wasting money and asking too much.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (1477) and Muslim (593).

AND as I mentioned...if celebrating birthdays is allowed,I wonder why Milaad-un-Nabi dint have such grand functions as those for maula?
Or do you guys consider maula higher the the RASOOL????...Astagfirullah...

Guy Sam
Idont agree with progs..................nonethe less................milad mubarak

Happy Birthday to Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin and May Allah gives him healthy life.

Zahra wrote:Aqua Maula does not follow the Quran..
He allows Shirq...ooppsss sorry..U guys dont even know what shirq is,so......
translation of Quran is not allowed (have u ever thought y?)..because if u guys read Quran,you would actually know the real facts..
And the most IMPORTANT fact..We are not suppose to celebrate birthdays according to islam:

The evidence in the Qur’aan and Sunnah indicates that celebrating birthdays is a kind of bid’ah or innovation in religion, which has no basis in the pure sharee’ah. It is not permitted to accept invitations to birthday celebrations, because this involves supporting and encouraging bid’ah. Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Or have they partners with Allah (false gods) who have instituted for them a religion which Allaah has not allowed…?” [al-Shoora 42:21]

“Follow what has been sent down unto you from your Lord, and follow not any awliyaa’ (protectors, helpers, etc.) besides Him. Little do you remember!” [al-A’raaf 7:3]

YOU CAN NOT DENY WHATS IN THE HOLY QURAN..

QUote a single ayat in the Quran where birthdays are not allowed

profastian wrote:

Zahra wrote:Aqua Maula does not follow the Quran..
He allows Shirq...ooppsss sorry..U guys dont even know what shirq is,so......
translation of Quran is not allowed (have u ever thought y?)..because if u guys read Quran,you would actually know the real facts..
And the most IMPORTANT fact..We are not suppose to celebrate birthdays according to islam:

The evidence in the Qur’aan and Sunnah indicates that celebrating birthdays is a kind of bid’ah or innovation in religion, which has no basis in the pure sharee’ah. It is not permitted to accept invitations to birthday celebrations, because this involves supporting and encouraging bid’ah. Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Or have they partners with Allah (false gods) who have instituted for them a religion which Allaah has not allowed…?” [al-Shoora 42:21]

“Follow what has been sent down unto you from your Lord, and follow not any awliyaa’ (protectors, helpers, etc.) besides Him. Little do you remember!” [al-A’raaf 7:3]

YOU CAN NOT DENY WHATS IN THE HOLY QURAN..

QUote a single ayat in the Quran where birthdays are not allowed

Y don't you read my complete post rather thn asking me the same question again & again..I have already proved my point..There are evidence in Quran which proves that celebrating birthday's is not allowed..

Infact u need to answer my question that if celebrating birthdays is allowed,I wonder why Milaad-un-Nabi dint have such grand functions as those for maula?
Or do you guys consider maula higher the the RASOOL????

I am still waiting...

Sis Zahra,

Asking questions to abdes with regard to Quran is like asking a kindergarden child to explain the pythagoras theorum. By now you should be aware that abdes are NOT ALLOWED to read the quranic translations and if at all any abde is keen on doing so then he has to enrol in the brainwashing sessions (sabaks) whereto the translations are provided only by the authorised amil or zaada who see to it that the same does not contradict the dai's actions and deeds, which means that the quranic meanings are twisted to suit the dai's purpose. Moreover if any fanatic abde even wishes to get the quranic translations from the market, he is scared to do so because the other fatwa which is drilled into his mind is that the REAL Quran which was compiled by Mola Ali (a.s.) is hidden and only the dai has access to it because he is haq nasaheb.

Now how do we know that dai is haq nasaheb ?
Because Imam-uz-zaman says so.
Where is Imam-uz-zaman ?
He is in hiding.
How can we contact him and get the confirmation ?
No, you cannot as he is accessable only to the dai.
Hence, dai is haq nasaheb bcoz the dai says so and you have to believe it or else you are kicked out.

ghulam muhammed wrote:Sis Zahra,

Asking questions to abdes with regard to Quran is like asking a kindergarden child to explain the pythagoras theorum. By now you should be aware that abdes are NOT ALLOWED to read the quranic translations and if at all any abde is keen on doing so then he has to enrol in the brainwashing sessions (sabaks) whereto the translations are provided only by the authorised amil or zaada who see to it that the same does not contradict the dai's actions and deeds, which means that the quranic meanings are twisted to suit the dai's purpose. Moreover if any fanatic abde even wishes to get the quranic translations from the market, he is scared to do so because the other fatwa which is drilled into his mind is that the REAL Quran which was compiled by Mola Ali (a.s.) is hidden and only the dai has access to it because he is haq nasaheb.

Now how do we know that dai is haq nasaheb ?
Because Imam-uz-zaman says so.
Where is Imam-uz-zaman ?
He is in hiding.
How can we contact him and get the confirmation ?
No, you cannot as he is accessable only to the dai.
Hence, dai is haq nasaheb bcoz the dai says so and you have to believe it or else you are kicked out.

Exactly bhai..
I fail to understand this concept..
And m still shocked..how can these many people follow and believe such things..
How can they unsee whats in the Quran???
Wese u know what bhai???Its in the Quran,that before Qayamat,30 dajjals will appear and each will think he is a Prophet..
so...........................................................

Zahra,

Welcome to these forums.

I understand that, like many of us, you have issues with how the community is run and how devotees of Sayedna behave on this forum.

However, I suggest that you be a bit more circumspect when quoting or referring to the Quran. In yours posts so far, you clearly do not display much familiarity with the Quran.

Also, when quoting from Quran always state the surat and ayat numbers in the form suran#:ayat#. If you use a translation, please name the Translator as well. You will notice that those who know the Quran well, abide by these unwritten rules.

Br AC , AS
Yes you are right. Qur’an does not prohibit celebration of bityhday.
Before knocking Bukhari and Hadith about urine, you should have done some homework. I googled first Hadith and found this:
Unveiling Islam
Misrepresentation of Hadith

http://www.unveilingislam.org/1MisrepHadith.html

This is what it says about urine Hadith which you commented as follows

Here is a hadith from Sahee Bukhari
Anas:
The climate of Medina did not suit some people, so the Prophet ordered them to follow his shepherd, i.e. his camels, and drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they followed the shepherd that is the camels and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy… (7.590).
I have no comments on this, it is self describing how sashee it could be.

Please read what it says about this Hadit.

In the second instance the Holy Prophet recommended perhaps a folk remedy for a certain illness.
The authors of 'Unveiling Islam', find this ironic. We find it ironic that their sarcasm has once more exposed their own ignorance and prejudice. Folk remedies to this day depend on the availability of natural substances. Urine is even utilized today in modern medicine as a source of active biological substances. For example a hormone preparation Premarin taken by millions of women over the past decades is derived from pregnant mare’s urine. Moreover, the Holy Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, has stated, “ When I order you anything respecting religion receive it, and when I order anything about the affairs of the world, I am no more than a man”. (Al-Mishkat al-Masabih 1:6 - i)

Non Muslims, Hippocrates and non Sunnis use hadith like this to ridicule Bukhari and Islam.
Please understand and study Hadith from Aalim before commenting on it.
Hopefully we will have chance to know Bohra Hadith volume whenever Kothar lifts veil of secrecy.

porus wrote:Zahra,

Welcome to these forums.

I understand that, like many of us, you have issues with how the community is run and how devotees of Sayedna behave on this forum.

However, I suggest that you be a bit more circumspect when quoting or referring to the Quran. In yours posts so far, you clearly do not display much familiarity with the Quran.

Also, when quoting from Quran always state the surat and ayat numbers in the form suran#:ayat#. If you use a translation, please name the Translator as well. You will notice that those who know the Quran well, abide by these unwritten rules.

Here is the translation with Ayah Number...
Its translated by 3 different People:

Surah-109: Surah Al-Kafiroon (the disbelievers, atheists)

Ayah: 1
Arabic: قُلْ يَا أَيُّهَا الْكَافِرُونَ
Pickthal: Say: O disbelievers!
Shakir: Say: O unbelievers!
Yusuf Ali: Say : O ye that reject Faith!

Ayah: 2
Arabic: لَا أَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ
Pickthal: I worship not that which ye worship;
Shakir: I do not serve that which you serve,
Yusuf Ali: I worship not that which ye worship,

Ayah: 3
Arabic: وَلَا أَنتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ
Pickthal: Nor worship ye that which I worship.
Shakir: Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
Yusuf Ali: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

Ayah: 4
Arabic: وَلَا أَنَا عَابِدٌ مَّا عَبَدتُّمْ
Pickthal: And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
Shakir: Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
Yusuf Ali: And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,

Ayah: 5
Arabic: وَلَا أَنتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ
Pickthal: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
Shakir: Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
Yusuf Ali: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

Ayah: 6
Arabic: لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ
Pickthal: Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.
Shakir: You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.
Yusuf Ali: To you be your Way, and to me mine.


for instance:

If you have a Hindi book..people who don't know hindi,would not understand the meaning.. BUT..people who knows the language will understand (like people from India,Pakistan etc.)
Same way,I live in Middle East..Arabs do understand Quran and its meaning...
And I have many Arab friends...They all will tell you the same meaning but may b with different words...(like I have posted above)

I am not against anyone..Its ok if someone is preaching you..But other things like bowing and touching feet (kadam-bousi),celebrating milad in a grand way (wasting money),etc...Its not allowed in Islam..Its HARAAM..Its SHIRQ..Shirq ki koi maafi nahi...

Zahra wrote:

ghulam muhammed wrote:Sis Zahra,

Asking questions to abdes with regard to Quran is like asking a kindergarden child to explain the pythagoras theorum. By now you should be aware that abdes are NOT ALLOWED to read the quranic translations and if at all any abde is keen on doing so then he has to enrol in the brainwashing sessions (sabaks) whereto the translations are provided only by the authorised amil or zaada who see to it that the same does not contradict the dai's actions and deeds, which means that the quranic meanings are twisted to suit the dai's purpose. Moreover if any fanatic abde even wishes to get the quranic translations from the market, he is scared to do so because the other fatwa which is drilled into his mind is that the REAL Quran which was compiled by Mola Ali (a.s.) is hidden and only the dai has access to it because he is haq nasaheb.

Now how do we know that dai is haq nasaheb ?
Because Imam-uz-zaman says so.
Where is Imam-uz-zaman ?
He is in hiding.
How can we contact him and get the confirmation ?
No, you cannot as he is accessable only to the dai.
Hence, dai is haq nasaheb bcoz the dai says so and you have to believe it or else you are kicked out.

Exactly bhai..
I fail to understand this concept..
And m still shocked..how can these many people follow and believe such things..
How can they unsee whats in the Quran???
Wese u know what bhai???Its in the Quran,that before Qayamat,30 dajjals will appear and each will think he is a Prophet..
so...........................................................

I have read Quraan translation and no where got this ayat...so it means there are two possibilities.

1.either ur quraan is different then the one read by whole ummah

2.or may be u are lying.

post the ayat

labbaikyaHussain wrote:

Zahra wrote:
Exactly bhai..
I fail to understand this concept..
And m still shocked..how can these many people follow and believe such things..
How can they unsee whats in the Quran???
Wese u know what bhai???Its in the Quran,that before Qayamat,30 dajjals will appear and each will think he is a Prophet..
so...........................................................

I have read Quraan translation and no where got this ayat...so it means there are two possibilities.

1.either ur quraan is different then the one read by whole ummah

2.or may be u are lying

post the ayat

Hey..Sorry..Dajjal's name is not mentioned in the Holy Quran..but his reference is given as ""He shall come upon a nation, and invite them (into his faith), and they will believe in him..."

But its in the Hadith as a sign of Qayamat that Approximately 30 DAJJALS دجّالون will appear, each one claiming to be the messenger of ALLAH ..
n i guess Bohra's do not follow the Sunni Hadith..

progpigs wrote:

Muslim First wrote: propig

except Islam given to Muhammad (Qur'an and his Sunna) all religions like Shiasm, Bohrism. Ahmedia etc etc were created by abdes like you.

If Sunnah as quoted in Hadith goes against Qur'an then reject it.

now go back in line for kadam Bosi.

A devils follower cannot be explained of devil's unleashed! (am poiting the 3 ULTIMATE LAEENS who splitted the umah)

I would like to ask:
Who was prophet Mohammed (SAW)?
Was he a Shia,Bohra,etc?- NO
Did he follow any maula?- NO
He just followed Allah and the Holy Quran..So according to that,we should follow the same..

You can NOT call any of these as "LAEENS"..
Abu Bakkar Siddique- Best friend of Prophet Mohammed(SAW).."Siddique" or friend was the title given to him by our beloved Prophet.
Insulting him will not make you great...
They were all Muslims and followed the sunnah of Prophet..
and Islam does not allow us to throw lanat on any muslim...
Allah is the one who will decide..
And they did not split Islam..It was the people who made 2 different troops and made there individual decision..
Allah never gave permission to split Islam..
But its the sign of Qayamat,that Islam will split into 72 firqah...There will be 72 types of muslims,but only ONE will be jannati..the one who will follow on the Sunnah of the Prophet..the one who will follow the Holy Quran..(Quran prohibits Shirq..Shirq is the biggest sin according to Islam)
Only Allah will decide who is the true and correct one..

just like before u are again putting your foot in your mouth....bring the sahee hadith which can be recognised by all shia and sunni where prophet(saw) gave title siddique to abu bakar(la)....

while all the tiles given to Ali ibn abi talib are recognised by all shi and sunni at the same time.

Infact abu bakar was such a coward that when Imam Ali was sleeping on prophet bed abd abu bakar was in cave safe with Muhammed(saw).still he was shivering.and if u have read quraan translation u shud know it very well.

Sister Zahra
AS

There is no sense in arguing with these incredibly lamebrains or pigs.

They are Orthodox Dawoodi Bohras. In their religion they are taught to hate first and then show worshipful love to Ali and Ahl e bait. They learn this from the day they were conceived and will shout it till they die.

They and their More la cannot comprehend a simple Qur'anic command like "everybody is responsible for his sins and will be rewarded for their good deeds".

Please do not disturb them, they are in deep slumber.

while all the tiles given to Ali ibn abi talib are recognised by all shi and sunni at the same time.

lamebrainHussain

If Ali was nominated as Son of God, Shias would have accepted it and would be very happy.

But its the sign of Qayamat,that Islam will split into 72 firqah...There will be 72 types of muslims,but only ONE will be jannati..

Sister Zahra

72 was just a figurative number. It does not mean exact 72+1

There already 1000 + firqah in Islam.

Do not worry about anybody. Just take care of yourself and your family.

labbaikyaHussain wrote:just like before u are again putting your foot in your mouth....bring the sahee hadith which can be recognised by all shia and sunni where prophet(saw) gave title siddique to abu bakar....

while all the tiles given to Ali ibn abi talib are recognised by all shi and sunni at the same time.

Infact abu bakar was such a coward that when Imam Ali was sleeping on prophet bed abd abu bakar was in cave safe with Muhammed(saw).still he was shivering.and if u have read quraan translation u shud know it very well.

Yes Hussain,

we do believe In all the Imaam's..and we respect them unlike you..We do not give lanaths..
We believe in the titles,because we follow all the imaams mentioned in the Holy Quran and you don't..
..Infact you do not follow The Quran properly....There are so many things HARAM in Quran..but you guys still do..
Forget the hadiths if you don't believe.. At least follow the Quran..Quran doesn't state anywhere that Imaam Abu Bakar Sidique was wrong..
Infact there is no rivalry shown between Imaam Abu Bakar and Imaam Ali as well..both were followers of Islam..

And these are just stories made by you all about Abu Bakar Sddique...Its no where in the Quran..

Infact you show me one line where the kalima is: لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول اللهوعليٌ وليُّ الله (lā ʾilāha ʾillallāh, Muḥammad rasūlu-llāh,Ali-yyun wali-yyu-llāh)

Allah has never compared anyone with our beloved RASOOL..How can you?

Imaam Ali has his own importance in Islam..and we truly respect him..


Yes muslim,
You are right..i agree with you..

Zahara, when you say "we", who are you speaking for? The "we" gives the impression that you're speaking on behalf of reformists. Please do not try to attribute your personal beliefs to reformists. The reformists belief system is no different from that of the orthodox Dawoodi Bohras. We, the reformists, accept the Mustalian/Tayyabi/Dawoodi doctrine and dawat. The reform movement is not about doctrinal matters, so when you talk about such matters please make sure you specify them as your personal opinion.

Brother MF Assalamualikum

I just quoted the hadith, which is there in Sahee Bukhari, your google research does not deny its existence, but tried to illogically explain things out of context. I did not quote many others from tirmizi, muslim and bukhari regarding some personalities. Which were labelled as "zaeef". If there are ahadiths which are zaeef, then what is the criteria of Mustahkam hadith narrated by the same author.
I even quoted the hadith which your google search cites to contradict the above hadith. I was quite balanced. It is self contradictory to ask for logical basis of other's faith while believing in a faith without subjecting it to same criteria.

If you ask others to provide proof of what they say and believe, then How did Bukhari come by these ahadiths, did he have tapes or manuscripts to prove the authenticity. He quotes x who quotes z, who quotes y, y quotes w. right.

Zahra wrote:

labbaikyaHussain wrote:just like before u are again putting your foot in your mouth....bring the sahee hadith which can be recognised by all shia and sunni where prophet(saw) gave title siddique to abu bakar....

while all the tiles given to Ali ibn abi talib are recognised by all shi and sunni at the same time.

Infact abu bakar was such a coward that when Imam Ali was sleeping on prophet bed abd abu bakar was in cave safe with Muhammed(saw).still he was shivering.and if u have read quraan translation u shud know it very well.

Yes Hussain,

we do believe In all the Imaam's..and we respect them unlike you..We do not give lanaths..
We believe in the titles,because we follow all the imaams mentioned in the Holy Quran and you don't..
..Infact you do not follow The Quran properly....There are so many things HARAM in Quran..but you guys still do..
Forget the hadiths if you don't believe.. At least follow the Quran..Quran doesn't state anywhere that Imaam Abu Bakar Sidique was wrong..
Infact there is no rivalry shown between Imaam Abu Bakar and Imaam Ali as well..both were followers of Islam..

And these are just stories made by you all about Abu Bakar Sddique...Its no where in the Quran..

Infact you show me one line where the kalima is: لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول اللهوعليٌ وليُّ الله (lā ʾilāha ʾillallāh, Muḥammad rasūlu-llāh,Ali-yyun wali-yyu-llāh)

Allah has never compared anyone with our beloved RASOOL..How can you?

Imaam Ali has his own importance in Islam..and we truly respect him..


Yes muslim,
You are right..i agree with you..

man this lady is insane she dont even know basic of islaam...she is calling abu bakr as imam,also saying imam is mention in quraan with direct words.she dont even know difference between an imam and khalifa.

zahra if u are progressive then i really pity this guys for having such jahil members in their side.

labbaikyaHussain wrote:

Zahra wrote:
Yes Hussain,

we do believe In all the Imaam's..and we respect them unlike you..We do not give lanaths..
We believe in the titles,because we follow all the imaams mentioned in the Holy Quran and you don't..
..Infact you do not follow The Quran properly....There are so many things HARAM in Quran..but you guys still do..
Forget the hadiths if you don't believe.. At least follow the Quran..Quran doesn't state anywhere that Imaam Abu Bakar Sidique was wrong..
Infact there is no rivalry shown between Imaam Abu Bakar and Imaam Ali as well..both were followers of Islam..

And these are just stories made by you all about Abu Bakar Sddique...Its no where in the Quran..

Infact you show me one line where the kalima is: لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول اللهوعليٌ وليُّ الله (lā ʾilāha ʾillallāh, Muḥammad rasūlu-llāh,Ali-yyun wali-yyu-llāh)

Allah has never compared anyone with our beloved RASOOL..How can you?

Imaam Ali has his own importance in Islam..and we truly respect him..


Yes muslim,
You are right..i agree with you..

man this lady is insane she dont even know basic of islaam...she is calling abu bakr as imam,also saying imam is mention in quraan with direct words.she dont even know difference between an imam and khalifa.

zahra if u are progressive then i really pity this guys for having such jahil members in their side.

Oh yes Hussain,thank you for the correction,its Hazrat Abu Bakar (RADI ALLAHU ANHU)...

I am NOT a progressive or wateverrrr..i am just a MUSLIM...(not a bohra..)

Humsafar wrote:Zahara, when you say "we", who are you speaking for? The "we" gives the impression that you're speaking on behalf of reformists. Please do not try to attribute your personal beliefs to reformists. The reformists belief system is no different from that of the orthodox Dawoodi Bohras. We, the reformists, accept the Mustalian/Tayyabi/Dawoodi doctrine and dawat. The reform movement is not about doctrinal matters, so when you talk about such matters please make sure you specify them as your personal opinion.

We here is WE MUSLIMS...(Not bohra..not Shia..)