A Brave Man Among Alvi Bohras!

[like_minded]

Originally posted by Zeal:
then I see that this philosophy is of a self seeking mind.. a mind which only seeks itself, wants it identity
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I agree !
but what's wrong in wanting an identity...
selfishness in another words is self seeking , but important is this is doing good to others also and not just yourself!

Then let there be wars, conflict, divisions, violence, supression etc etc., because that is exactly what is happening today, isnt it?? Self seeking mind will slowly ruin everything, because it wants it identity in everything, it does not care about anything, whatever comes in its way, it surely over runs it... That is where the world is heading towards....Mind is always behind meaning and purpose, it keeps tresspassing, because even in that it seeks its identity..

[like_minded]

The americans will keep exploiting middle-east, because the Arabs are too busy either in masjids or at war with themselves (sunni-shia). Then we have the great Jihadis, who without any kind understanding target innocent people, for what?? To seek heaven.

VERY STRANGE, but this is the reality, right in front of us.. Wake up brothers.. see who is the real villian.

[makberi]

bro wat i m tryin to say is a selfless act is jus not possible...i m not tryin to point out that ur selfish...dont get me wrong...i beleive everyone is selfish...cuz a selfless act is not possible.....

[like_minded]

Bro makberi,

Superb!! atleast you realize that there is something called "selfless" act. That in itself is an understanding... cant you see that brother???

I am sure if you understand selfishness, it will simply not remain... wow.. can you see that!!!

[like_minded]

Brother..

All I am saying.. If you LOOK at selfishness directly, without being selfish... You will understand what like being selfless.. which you are actually.

[Zeal]

lets say you donate money, your devote your time for charitable cause - are you doing it selflessly? totally?

have you ever tried reading yourself when you do such acts?
I am sure there is a sense of self satisfaction which you seek and you gain when you do such acts.

Thats being selfish!

[like_minded]

Originally posted by Zeal:
lets say you donate money, your devote your time for charitable cause - are you doing it selflessly? totally?

have you ever tried reading yourself when you do such acts?
I am sure there is a sense of self satisfaction which you seek and you gain when you do such acts.

Thats being selfish!

Brother.. you are getting close, surely...

Now tell me, is it not possible to perform such acts out of spontaneity?? why bring thought into it?? when you see a needy, you donate, simply because you see his need, there is something inside you which feels the pain of the needy, there is a common factor which is ONE, now when you look at a needy and think, oh let me help him/her, then you spoil it brother, because that act of donation is no longer out of understanding the need of the needy, but out of sheer sense of satisfaction which is of mind, which seeks its identity in just about anything. Seeking identity = ego, brother you have to understand that.

[Zeal]

out of spontaneity ...I agree.
But thats only when giving a small 10 rupee note to a beggar.

You cant donate a fortune to build a mosque , to help a child gain education for whole of his life etc out of spontaneity.
You have to think , plan and then act.

Selfishness creeps in...

coz its in the nature, and no harm coz its actually doing good!

[like_minded]

Brother Zeal,

I am not suggesting that one stops donating just because one sees oneself in that (mind seeking identity). Please donate, help the needy, there is nothing bigger than service.

Even in our daily lives, we are serving arent we?? somehow, somebody out there is benefitted by that? Because we dont know, our mind cannot recognize and hence cannot seek its identity.

[makberi]

"Brother.. you are getting close, surely...

Now tell me, is it not possible to perform such acts out of spontaneity?? why bring thought into it?? when you see a needy, you donate, simply because you see his need, there is something inside you which feels the pain of the needy, there is a common factor which is ONE, now when you look at a needy and think, oh let me help him/her, then you spoil it brother, because that act of donation is no longer out of understanding the need of the needy, but out of sheer sense of satisfaction which is of mind, which seeks its identity in just about anything. Seeking identity = ego, brother you have to understand that".

Now bro here ur pointing out 2 possibilities...
one u do a good deed out of spontaneity.....
two u do good deed as u point out to satisfy the mind.....
but i believe there is only one possibility ....even when u do as per possibility one...ur doin it to satisfy ur mind.....so ultimately all good deeds are done to satify the mind....so all deeds are selfish.....

[like_minded]

Originally posted by Zeal:
out of spontaneity ...I agree.
But thats only when giving a small 10 rupee note to a beggar.

You cant donate a fortune to build a mosque , to help a child gain education for whole of his life etc out of spontaneity.
You have to think , plan and then act.

Selfishness creeps in...

Brother Zeal, Simply be aware of that selfishness.. just be aware, you will be surprised, It just vanishes!!! Then it is just an act, whatever it is.. you just give and expect nothing, because you really GIVE then. Your identity is dissolved, It is not there anymore, Its your natural state, pure, untouched and full of energy, nothing can shake it!! Then there is only LOVE, you will be left with a smile on your face.. because your identity is not there anymore.

coz its in the nature, and no harm coz its actually doing good!

[Zeal]

Bro Like_minded,
Honestly I think you are confused about something in life and want to stay that way.

Leave behind all these unnecessary arguments in each and every topic about mind, seeking, ego etc.

Insha-allah you will be fine

[like_minded]

Brother.. when you really GIVE, there is no GIVER or TAKER, You dissolve your identity as a GIVER and at the same time dissolve the identity of the needy as TAKER, then what is common... that pain, you understand that pain, dont you?? Yes surely, because there is something in you which does, it connects, simply connects..

In our daily lives, we serve dont we?? There is surely a GIVER and TAKER, but what mind cannot see, it cannot recognize to seek itself in it, but its happening every moment. There is surely someone, something, somehow getting the benefits out of your action, when mind cannot see that, it does not recognize itself in it..

[makberi]

Originally posted by like_minded:
[QB]Brother.. when you really GIVE, there is no GIVER or TAKER, You dissolve your identity as a GIVER and at the same time dissolve the identity of the needy as TAKER, then what is common... that pain, you understand that pain, dont you?? Yes surely, because there is something in you which does, it connects, simply connects..

[QB]

regardin the first paragraph when u feel the pain of the person n help him out..for ex u c a beggar in a poor state n u help him becuz u feel pity for him....there is always a reason for helpin the beggar...either ur scared of God....or u feel good abt doin smethin moral...or wateva...there is a reason....n thus the act is selfish.....

[like_minded]

Simply realizing or rather understanding (action) what selfishness is all about, You are free from it.... Can you not see that??

This realization is enough to shock the mind, then this mind is still.. it is quite...

The next time you give donation, I am sure this realization is going to be there, and see it for yourself, how selfishness vanishes....

There are no methods here brother, it is simple awareness of the negative which is inside us, bringing the negative out or rather exposing it with reality. Then that negative just does not remain, It cannot, because you are what you are.. and that is LIVE ENERGY, which has everything in it.

[makberi]

bro i think wat ur tryin to say that by realising that all acts are selfish..we can free ourselves of the burdens of morality...n act selflessly....but we must realise that morality serve another higher purpose....

[like_minded]

regardin the first paragraph when u feel the pain of the person n help him out..for ex u c a beggar in a poor state n u help him becuz u feel pity for him....there is always a reason for helpin the beggar...either ur scared of God....or u feel good abt doin smethin moral...or wateva...there is a reason....n thus the act is selfish.....

You dont pity him.. instead you see his pain, how you see his pain, because there is pain in you, and so you connect, without any reason. It is nature brother, It is like that, without any purpose or meaning. You see a reason because of mind, what if there is no mind involved, then there is no reason, simple connection, spontanious...

[like_minded]

Originally posted by makberi:
bro i think wat ur tryin to say that by realising that all acts are selfish..we can free ourselves of the burdens of morality...n act selflessly....but we must realise that morality serve another higher purpose....

Realising or understanding, releases all burdens, then there is honesty, morality, Love, everything, it just flows out of your natural self, which is what YOU are I AM, ALL are.

[makberi]

man if no mind is there...then wat is it...the heart....lol.....i believe the mind n heart r the same..excuse my sceptisism but thats how we rationalists are....btw have u read Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged...u mite have.....if u havent ....pls do read it...its shares strong views against ur ideology....so mite be a bit hard to digest...but surely a nice read.....

[like_minded]

Originally posted by makberi:
man if no mind is there...then wat is it...the heart....lol.....i believe the mind n heart r the same..excuse my sceptisism but thats how we rationalists are....btw have u read Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged...u mite have.....if u havent ....pls do read it...its shares strong views against ur ideology....so mite be a bit hard to digest...but surely a nice read.....

Brother no mind is simply no thinking, no ego, no purpose, no meaning, just a quite mind, still mind, not searching, not fighting with itself, A mind which understands itself clearly, so it is at peace.

[makberi]

bro i believe a mind without purpose without meaning without ego without searchin is dead...sorri to say but i disagree

[like_minded]

btw have u read Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged...u mite have.....if u havent ....pls do read it...its shares strong views against ur ideology....so mite be a bit hard to digest...but surely a nice read.....

Brother I am a bad reader, Tell me his views, If you can.

I do not have any ideologies, please dont mistake me.

[makberi]

well its a she...lol....n the fun is in readin the book...its a 1000 page book.....so mite be difficult for starters.....but after a 100 or so pages its quite gripping...c if u can get hold of it

[makberi]

n its ok man..philosophy or ideology are not bad words i have my philosophy of life n u have urs....

[like_minded]

Originally posted by makberi:
bro i believe a mind without purpose without meaning without ego without searchin is dead...sorri to say but i disagree

Then die every moment, you will start living... die to the past and live to the present. We are doing exactly that, without realisation.