Intro

[tahir]

Shabir bhai,
William Shakespeare must be a hypocrite for you since he said 'Whats in a name'

Who next?..The hidden Imam, since he is not showing up (and whose exile is dawat's cash cow)

[AFirmBeliever]

Shows how people back stabbed!!! Good example of a reformist!

Originally posted by S. Insaf:
I am in Mumbai since last 40 years. I was General Manager with Godrej & Boyce Co. for 30 years and now retired. I am 63 years of age but not going to die without seeing the Kothar's down fall.
I was very close to late Mukasir Saheb and his son Quresh bhai saheb.
I had long discussions with Sayedna Taher Saifuddin and Sayedna Burhanuddin and found that Sayedna Taher Saifuddin was intelligent, cunning but Sayedna Burhanuddin a total buffoon.

[AFirmBeliever]

And look...you don't even have anyhting to stand upon.

Originally posted by tahir:
Actually fruits I just realised that you are the wrong person to be asked such a question. Afterall you are a dawoodi bohra. You would never be able to come up with the source of your words and deeds the way your trickster religious head runs his arse away whenever being asked about the source of his Nass - the legitimacy of his office. All he does is twist and spin. Standing on thin ice as your cult is.

[AFirmBeliever]

As many of you assume like you do in your judgement that I'm a male. Let me introduce myself. Female 28, working as an enterpreneur in an art field. I'm a self made person wth strong religious values and faith in my community. Believe it or not the position I'm in right now and how far I ahve come is due to my believe and hard work. I like challenges as many of you know and like I have seen here, most of you just give up even posting! aha! thats what reformist image I get!
Well, I don't need to get on this site again. I have seen what I need to. Good luck with your life!

[tahir]

Of late, it has been a PET squeak of ortho bohras to pseudo-intellectualise their instinctive hate for reforms, throw a stone on this board and run away thinking that they created a ripple.

Typically, they would evoke their worldly success (with a halo on the face) to justify their beiliefs forgetting that others who do not share their believes attain equal (if not more) success.

Dear AFirmbeliever, I am afraid you failed to impress. All the best. And no, no one assumed your gender before you spilled it. It was you who assumed that we assumed. So look now who is assuming !

[shabir]

tahirbhai, according to william shakespere and obviously according to you we should now stop naming our new borns.

[shabir]

sefuddinbhai your story is out of proportion.i dont believe that SYEDNA TAHERSEIFUDDIN SAHEB would have ever done something like the story you have put in.he only had contacts with humans and not with baboons.i think you still have to evolve a little bit more and become a human like us and than i would say that you qualify to have contacts in such high places. you are still a semi human and strugling with life to get into mainstream of the human.may be 3 generations after you will succeed to reach that evolved form.any way wish you and your offspring high success in this biological struggle.

[shabir]

taherbhai your impression is wrong.we just come here to scout and try to study the variuos hypocrtical mantra written here by the pundits of the progressives.and also try to convince those who are struggling to remain in the main fold of mumineen but are going astray.anyway its just a drop in the ocean.some children who are in the west think life is material and fail to understand the spiritual side.but what i see is you make sure that the post we put in the forum is analysed in a hypocratical manner so the actual meaning of the post is not understoood by the children and this make sure that they continue to come here.well that is I suppose must be quite a struggle for you.so wish you best of luck in your evil endeavours.

[bohraji]

shabir,change your name.Do not abuse people with a name like that.I wonder why the admin keeps such posts

[anajmi]

shabir,

So you wanted the real names of the people on this board, so that you and your kothari goons can go after them and their families with their unIslamic threats and baraats?

[shabir]

if the facts and figures are proved than why to worry about barat or anything else.barat is not unislamic.even the holy QURAAN instructs muslims not to keep relations with idolators.this is one form of barat.and even in normal life we will not keep relations with our enemies and also will not keep relations with friends of our enemies.so what is new.if the progressive have right facts and figures and want to enter into meaningful and respectful discussions than I dont think they should be afraid.but hiding on a messege board and speak against the system and at the same time behave in the funtions of the jammat as if they are the best mumineen is nothing less than hypocrysy and cowardise.if they believe that the system is wrong than either they start their own system porving it better than this one or axcept the system as it is and stop to spit out maligned language on this board. so stop being cowards and post your names also so we know who you are.

[tahir]

kaka shabir,
I am still awaiting your reply on this thread:

THE TEACHINGS OF AMIRUL MUMINEEN ALI IBN ABI TALIB

I want to get some drops from the ocean of knowledge you accumulated by this age (50+). I am serious.

[shabir]

TAHERBHAI,that is a cut out from NAHJUL BALAGHA.what can i add in that.if you have something than you can add.after all the 10% mumineen are satisfied with what we have and what AQA MOULA is and stand for.i had already asked you before to produce some concrete plans on how you are going to organise and what you ahve to offer.why uptill now you have not answered or provided anything yet.

[tahir]

I have seen people romanticising their pain/struggle but this is the first case of romanticising moronity.

[Zack]

As salam,
New here and hope to get knowledge from all of u inshaAllah.
was salam.

[Mamluk-E-Syedna]

Bhai Zack:

Sorry to disappoint you. But, this is not the site/forum to gain any knowledge. The only "real" thing you'll find here is Hasad (jealousy) of enemies of our Aqa Maula Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb (TUS); two-fanged, sugar-coated words like "Oh, we believe in Dai, but not in Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb (TUS)"; and pure hatred of our Shafiq Maula and his adnaa gulaams like us. Just beware! Don't let your Ikhlaas corrupted by these so-called "progressives"! (In my eyes, they are indeed regressives.)

May Allah Subhanahu grant long, long life to our Aqa Maula Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb (TUS), and may Daawat-na-Dushmano burn in hell forever. Aameen.

[pro_pig]

ameen !

[tahir]

Zack,
I agree with mamluk-e-syedna. This site is stalked by proven foes of fatimid dawat. With shackled conscience, they support kothar and the current dai in their anti-dawat and misanthropic activities to bring shame to the real fatimid dawat (of yore). Occasionally they get beeps of inner voice telling them they are wrong but the inner shackles are too strong and the voice has to always give up.

They are not only possessed but also have a sense of being possessed. This creates a deep guilt. To suppress this conflict and shame they frequently cantillate hollow praises/prayers for the dai, drape white sayas, sport long beards and ritually curse reformists. Sigmund Freud called it psychosexual defense mechanism . The inner beep however keeps mocking at their vacuous chants.

The one ridden with self doubt shouteth the loudest

When the yellow puss starts overflowing, their suppressed conflict will transform into violence. Given half a chance, mamluk-e-syedna and pro_pig will lead a marauding crowd to ransack badri mahal and drag the present dai out by his beard. I mean, when the new dai candidate passes the batin lie detector test and proclaims that he had a wet dream of being the next dai.

BTW, Welcome zack. Along with this site, you can also gain knowledge from malumat.com. It is very important to learn how bad karmas bring psychosocial illeffects.

[anajmi]

tahir,

I am not sure if you knew this, but there is a prophetic tradition, the reference I forget right now, which says that mullahs with beards who have been sinful, will be dragged by their beards on the day of judgment.

[pro_pig]

tahir you will be next dai after aliasgar engg so be prepared.

[AFirmBeliever]

I didn't assume foolish person! In many of my discussions here, people refered to me as a male person! aha!

Originally posted by tahir:
Of late, it has been a PET squeak of ortho bohras to pseudo-intellectualise their instinctive hate for reforms, throw a stone on this board and run away thinking that they created a ripple.

Typically, they would evoke their worldly success (with a halo on the face) to justify their beiliefs forgetting that others who do not share their believes attain equal (if not more) success.

Dear AFirmbeliever, I am afraid you failed to impress. All the best. And no, no one assumed your gender before you spilled it. It was you who assumed that we assumed. So look now who is assuming !

[AFirmBeliever]

Look who's talking about throwing stones and running away, many of my argunments/discussions were not replied..why? no answer or just want to give up!

Originally posted by tahir:
Of late, it has been a PET squeak of ortho bohras to pseudo-intellectualise their instinctive hate for reforms, throw a stone on this board and run away thinking that they created a ripple.

Typically, they would evoke their worldly success (with a halo on the face) to justify their beiliefs forgetting that others who do not share their believes attain equal (if not more) success.

Dear AFirmbeliever, I am afraid you failed to impress. All the best. And no, no one assumed your gender before you spilled it. It was you who assumed that we assumed. So look now who is assuming !

[tahir]

Originally posted by AFirmBeliever:
many of my argunments/discussions were not replied..why?

For instance?

[kabeer19922001]

I have returned from a five week vacation to Pakistan and Thailand. I wnated to see the responses on the thread I had started before I left and much to my surprise, a simple thread for introduction talked about totally unrelated issues.

Anyway, during my vacation I got to read a very useful book entitled " Our Ismaili systems and beliefs". The book is written by Dr. Zahid Ali, who was one of the teachers of the late Sayedna Tahir Saifuddin. Obvously after writing he was thrown out of the community. The book expalins in depth the real Islamili ( Bohra ) beleifs and quotes extensively from the Bohra Books. Its a must read for all Orthos and Reformist etc.

I will start a seperate thread wherein I will quote from the book and then have a discussion on the "true" Bohra beliefs.

Regards

[Why]

Who is publisher of the book and where it is available

[kalim]

Zahid Ali's book is in Urdu. Its full title is "Hamare Ismaili mazhab ki haqiqat aur us ka nizam : Ismaili mazhab ki malumat ka mukammal khazanah". It is published in Karachi by Maktabah-yi Bayyin¯at. I do not know if it has been translated into English. I am quoting this information from my copy.

Kabeer seems to be mistaken or maybe being deliberately misled: Zahir Ali was not Sayedna Taher Saifuddin's teacher. Both of these men were born in the same year, 1888. So one being the teacher of the other is highly unlikely.

Anyway, the book is quite useless now. There are many better and more accurate histories and doctrinal books now available. Farhad Daftary is a good starting point and so are bibliographies by Ismaili Poonawala and a newer one by Daftary. You can get a lifetime worth of reading from the last two.

[Kaka Akela]

Farhad Daftary's books can be seen on this site from UK http://www.iis.ac.uk/home.asp?l=en This site is for Aga Khani Ismailies but many of the books dealing with common Imams can be used by the Dawoodi Bohras also. The Ismailies: their history and doctrines by Farhad Daftary is an excellent start and specially chapters 3,4,&5 are very pertinent to
the understanding of Ismailism. You have to order the book through Barnes and Nobles or some other book store. Even they have the Zahid Ali collection
but not that specific book that Br. Kalim has mentioned.

[kabeer19922001]

Dear Brother Kalim

I have read Fahd Daftary's book, infact I have a copy in my library. I admit its an excellent historical book, but it does not touch on the actual "religious" beliefs of the Bohras. It is bascially a historical account of the Agha Khanis. Bohris have a chapter under the heading of "mustaaelien"

Dr. Zahid Ali's book is on the basic beliefs of the Bohra's ie. the principal beliefs that separates imamat from nabowat, the superiority of Hazrat Ali over the Prophet (PBUH), how the coming of the seventh natiq, the "zahiri shariat" or the apparent shariat of praying etc was suspended. etc

Its a very thought provoking book and as I wrote before, I intend to start a separate thread on the contents.

Regards

[Muslim First]

.

the superiority of Hazrat Ali over the Prophet (PBUH),

Nuts.

Non Starter.

.

[kalim]

First, if you want to learn doctrinal system of the Bohras then please read the "Daim al-Islam". I even recommend it to MF and Anajmi. What you find is that the Bohras in practice are very close to the Sunnis, more so than other Shia. This is not surprising as Sayedna Qazi Noman, who compiled it, was a collector of hadith and although tries to use narration chains through the Imams most of the hadiths can also be found in the Sunni canonical collections. For example, Ismail Poonawala has extensive footnotes on references to similar hadiths from other collections. Another good reference for everyday rituals is the handbook compiled by the present Sayedna's wife. It is available quite easily, even online I believe.

Now the Bohras do have a peculiar philosophical system, which, technically is imperative for all Bohras to learn, is generally ignored by the masses. But it is significantly different than of the Aga Khani Ismailis. The Bohras do not claim that Ali was superior to the Prophet. They also do not claim that the zahir sharia was suspended. Just who is this seventh natiq anyway? None of the Fatimids claimed that for themselves. That is simply silly and shows an deep ignorance about Bohra beliefs. Just to remind you, one of the jobs Imam Hakim gave Sayenda Kirmani was to counter just such claims by certain of the Imam's followers. No da'i, including the recent ones, has ever claimed that there is no need to follow the sharia. The Sayedna in all his sermons always asks the Bohras to pray regularly, fast, go for Haj, read the Quran etc. Only those who deliberately want to create trouble think otherwise. He and his administration may be corrupt, but we can not deny this of them.

Again, I want to remind you: the reform movement is not about doctrinal issues at all. It is a social movement, trying to bring more dignity and self-governance to the Bohras and the jamaats. Yes, the da'is have claimed unprecedented powers for themselves recently, but they have never said abandon namaz or fasting. So we should be careful to make sure we do not get the Aga Khani beliefs mixed up with the Bohra ones