The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Community.

[ghulam muhammed]

I found a very interesting article by Mr.Insaf on this thread which was posted way back on 27.1. 2007 which also corroborates with the topic under discussion :-

Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb’s son Mohammed Burhanuddin was born in 1333 hijri (mother – Husaina I-saheba) and his son Yusuf Najmuddin (YN) (mother - Fatima I-saheba) was born in 1340 hijri. That means that when Mohammed Burhanuddin was appointed and declared Mazoon (indicating him 52nd Dai) in 1351 hijri master YN was just 11 years old. Naturally he may not have worldly ambitious then.

Husaina I-saheba’s children Burhanuddin, Husain bhai (present mukasir) and Asma bahensaheba were all of mild-nature. They were subdued further because of sudden death of their mother by poisoning. After the death of Husaina I-saheba most of her relatives kept no contacts with Sayedna Taher Saifuddin. Shrewd Sayedna succeeded in keeping Husaina I-saheba’s children with him by declaring 18 years Burhanuddin his mazoon and next Dai and Amena I-saheba’s son Khuzema was declared as his Mukasir.

But Fatima I-saheba’s children YN, Qasim, Ali Asgar, Maryam were proved very ambitious, power-hungry and scheming. Therefore as they grew up, power struggle was bound to surface. They got hurt when after the death of Sayedna Taher Saifuddin, Mohammed Burhanuddin became Dai and he nominated Khuzema as mazoon indicating him to be the next Dai. Though it was as per the community’s age-old practice but it was not digested by Fatima I-saheba’s power-hungry children who were keen to see Dawat coming to their family.

Ever since Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb has established his vast financial empire, the priest class has become so very alluring that the democratic principle of the selection of offices of Dawat by merit has been abandoned. Sayedna Taher Saifuddin nominated his son as next Dai so now Sayedna Burhanuddin Saheb’s sons are aspiring to become the next Dai. YN knowing this situation in advance had married his son to Sayedna Burhanuddin’s daughter and making him Sayedna’s son-in-law. At the same time he started a campaign to spoil mazoon Khuzema bhaisaheb’s image by spreading stories projecting him as womanizer.

Now YN’s and Burhanuddin Saheb’s desperate sons have openly started harassing mazoon Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin and his supporters.

Sayedna Burhanuddin Saheb is 95 years old now but he is not able do Nass on Mazoon though Nass was done on him when he was just 18 years old and late Sayedna was 45 years old. This is a clear indication of in-flight in his family. Let’s pray that this does not take a bloody turn.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1039&p=17362&hilit= ... saf#p17362

[ghulam muhammed]

declaring 18 years Burhanuddin his mazoon and next Dai and Amena I-saheba’s son Khuzema was declared as his Mukasir.

This sentence was later corrected to read as "Syedna Taher Saifuddin's brother, Salehbhai saab Safiuddin was declared Mukasir.

[james]

Iam not dealing with those as it is not substantiated with documentary proofs although Iam 100% sure of its authenticity.
I refuse to rake up these issues as abdes will shout "What proof" ??? But I and many elders in the community can vouch for its authenticity.

When has proof ever stopped you from posting laughable though quite malicious accusations ? Example given below

He was also responsible for once slapping MB, a matter which had then become the talk of the town.

Your surety means absolutely nothing to the average person outside of this forum. It may mean a lot to the lackeys over here who just lap up gossip at the drop of the hat without critically analyzing your over the top melodrama.


You as an OP has offered nothing except for a fanciful essay devoid of merit and facts. Pity !

[ghulam muhammed]

james (minus the bond),

I and others on this forum are not at all surprised or perturbed by your statements which are the benchmark of brain dead abdes, please continue with your rants, best of luck !!

[ghulam muhammed]

Is it true that YN is responsible for the 4 teachers being removed from their posts in Surat Jamea?

To answer your question, here are some excerpts from a post by Bro Insaf :-

After the mass revolt in Udaipur in 1973 some undercurrent was developing among teachers of Jamiyah Saifiah and Amils. They were especially perturbed due to the high-handedness of Jamiyah’s rector, Yusuf Najmuddin. Before it could become a serious challenge to the religious establishment, Yusuf Najmuddin thought it fit to curb the dissidents by force and threat. He therefore went to Surat in November 1974, and instigated few ambitious students to violently attack four main teachers of the Jamiyah, Shaikh Hasan Ali, Shaikh Sajjad Husain, Ali Hasan and Shaikh Ahmed Ali. A large crowd of Jamiyah students with the help of local goons went on rampage in the streets of Surat for two days and severely attacked the houses of these Shaikhs and assaulted them and their family members as a result Shaikh Sajjad Husaiin died in the hospital the next day.

Shaikh Ahmed Ali was one of those teachers of Jamiyah who tried hard to apologise and remain in the fold of tyrants. He was made to stand with folded hands for hours on the door steps of Saifee Masjid in Surat and was compelled to bow down and walk up to the Amil keeping his shoes on his head. This went on for several days till he decided to leave Surat and come down to Udaipur and remain in reformist fold.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=934&p=15487&hilit=y ... saf#p15487

[james]

james (minus the bond),

I and others on this forum are not at all surprised or perturbed by your statements which are the benchmark of brain dead abdes, please continue with your rants, best of luck !!

It is indeed crazy of you to speak on behalf of " others " .I am not at all surprised that you chose to attack me and label me " a brain dead abde " instead of proving the worth of your OP and other subsequent posts which scream " FICTION " .

[canadian]

james (minus the bond),

It is indeed crazy of you to speak on behalf of " others " .I am not at all surprised that you chose to attack me and label me " a brain dead abde " instead of proving the worth of your OP and other subsequent posts which scream " FICTION " .

For Mr. James, what bro. GM wrote is fiction, but what Muffaddal bs says about the conversation between Imam Hussein and his horse and the Imam praying for STS and SMB before being killed, and his (Muffaddal's) brother talking to him from the grave are all hard, solid FACTS.

[alam]

Decades of deception, manipulation, and brainwashing, happen so very slowly.
Sort of like the frog placed in cool comfortable water at first, and very slowly, the temperature is raised, and. It gets warmer and warmer, until it reaches boiling point and yet the frog won't jump out because it get accustomed to the heat. It gets used to the punishment and the deception of comfort. Until the water reaches boiling point. Eventually the frog dies.
However, if you place the frog in boiling hot water from the beginning, it will do all it's best to jump out right away. That's survival and common sense.

That's the difference between people who have been programmed with decades of deception and manipulation ever so slowly, where the common sense is subdued, suppressed, oppressed, and those who have been pushed in boiling water. Very few frogs would jump out of the hot water before it kills them. .

Such is the nature of cult leaders and cult followers.

"Samjo to samjo, naa samjo to marjo" like the frog.

Those very few frogs who do jump out - it takes courage hmm?

[fulan ibn fulan]

The Zikar about Imam Hussain with Zuljanah is one that was told by Imam Ali Zainul Abedeen when he told the zikar of Shahadat in Madina.
Burhanuddin Maula himself used to say how Imam Hussain did dua for every Imam that was going to come, Every Dai during his Satr, and for every Mumin until Qayamat. A Zikar which can be found in Kitabs by Syedna Hatim. I think you, along with many of your friends have mis interpretted the waaz, what Muffadal Maula meant (I think) is that he did dua for every Dai, not necassarily by name.
Not sure what that third one is to be honest with you, never heard that before.

Whether or not these are all true, They have been zikars in Dawats History for 100's of years and isn't something that he has just made up on the spot.

As for the stuff on which this post is based on, I have not heard much about it, I have heard stories about YN and how he did have a nasty streak in him but other than that I don't know of any things he has actually said or done. As for the slap, going on previous things that happened to Burhanuddin Aqa I personally feel that either it didn't happen at all or has been exaggerated. I remember when I was young there was an occasion on a plane when your Engineer said some stuff to Maula, There were massive protests in the street in so many places against him. So just going on that, when someone said some things to Burhannudin Maulas face do you honestly think that if mumineen had known about that they wouldn't have done something about it?

[ghulam muhammed]

The Zikar about Imam Hussain with Zuljanah is one that was told by Imam Ali Zainul Abedeen when he told the zikar of Shahadat in Madina.

Could you please provide the authentic source duly verified by neutral Scholars ?

I remember when I was young there was an occasion on a plane when your Engineer said some stuff to Maula, There were massive protests in the street in so many places against him. So just going on that, when someone said some things to Burhannudin Maulas face do you honestly think that if mumineen had known about that they wouldn't have done something about it?

The Engineer episode is well documented on this forum many times and proven to be false, you can go through it and justify it for yourself (I say this bcoz I find you to be more rational then other abdes).
Regarding the "Non action" part of bohras during YN's incident as compared to the mayhem in Engineer's case then kindly note that there is a vast difference between the two. Firstly, the YN episode took place almost 40 plus years back during which time the euphoria and frenzy amongst bohras was almost non prevalent as compared to what we see today. Secondly, YN was from the family of the Dai, holding important portfolios and extremely powerful and feared by the average bohras. Hence, it was impossible to think of any bohra going physical against this tyrant who could even topple Jamea Ustads one of whom was the Dai's teacher !

[ghulam muhammed]

I know for a fact that SH.abbasbhai Saheb and SH.shabbirbhaisaheb are or have been essentially very down to earth, low key shehzadasaheb, who work overtime in their badri mahal offices, and hardly ever accepted ziyafat invitations. The fact that you don't see some of the sahibs you mentioned above is that the the propaganda machine has been promoting certain members of the family more than Others. They show photographs of the "politically correct" bhaisahebs, and just ignore the rest. Even when mazun or SKQ would be present the cameras were trained (through Farman) to not display or take photos or videos of him.

Shz Shabbir bhaisaab and Shz Abbas bhaisaab are the other sons of Amena aaisaab (Mother of KQ).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taher_Saifuddin

[james]

It is indeed crazy of you to speak on behalf of " others " .I am not at all surprised that you chose to attack me and label me " a brain dead abde " instead of proving the worth of your OP and other subsequent posts which scream " FICTION " .

For Mr. James, what bro. GM wrote is fiction, but what Muffaddal bs says about the conversation between Imam Hussein and his horse and the Imam praying for STS and SMB before being killed, and his (Muffaddal's) brother talking to him from the grave are all hard, solid FACTS.

How can you compare daily life events to stuff from religious texts ? You are comparing oranges with apples. To believe religious texts , one needs faith. To believe OP's fanciful stories , one needs to have a brain the size of a pea.

The veracity of OP has no bearing on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin's words from religious texts. It should be analyzed on its own merit and standing and should be chucked to the bin on further pondering .

[wise_guy]

@James bhai: y do u think that what OP wrote is false. Everything is so much fitting in place. YN was a known to be ruthless. His sons Badrul Jamali n Syed-ul Khair are following in his footsteps and their sister Zohratus Sharaf who is married to Mufaddal Maula is also NOT known to be of mild manners.. The Shehzadas are known to be money and ayyashi loving... it is just that you do not want to accept the truth or fact

[SBM]

Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin's words from religious texts.

Then why did he need a HINDU to come and testify that SBM told him about the NUSS. If SMS's words are from religious text why does he need the parade of Ramdev-Thackrey-Patil and Modi. Oh forgot SMB's word of religion comes from every religious text except ISLAM

[james]

The Zikar about Imam Hussain with Zuljanah is one that was told by Imam Ali Zainul Abedeen when he told the zikar of Shahadat in Madina.

Could you please provide the authentic source duly verified by neutral Scholars ?

Could you please elaborate on " neutral " ?

Should the scholar have a dash of wahabi , itna asheri , ismaili , sufi mixed altogether ?

Would you hold Imam Husain capable of having conversation with his horse if it came from an ancient source ? The crux of the matter is not Imam husain's capability , is it ? You won't believe it when the Dai Zaman says it , yet you will gladly believe if it conforms to your warped notion of " neutral source " who is anyone except the Fatimid Imams and Duats.

The quote below is allegedly by Imam AS according to http://www.ziaraat.org/sajjad.php

"O listeners Allah has given us (Ahle Bart) six things which no one else has. He has given us special Wisdom, Patience, Dignity, Power of speech, Courage and Respect. He gave us special benefit of belonging to the family of his Prophet. To us belong Hamza and Jafar. To us belong Asadullah (The lion of Allah, Imam Ali(a.s.)). To us belong the leader of the youths of paradise (Imam Hassan(a.s.) and Imam Hussain(a.s.)"

So the Imam AS claims that the Ahle Bait have six things which no one else has. He has included POWER OF SPEECH in those six things. Why would he label " Power of Speech " as something special when every one is blessed with it if you take the literal meaning . Things to ponder on ....

[james]

@James bhai: y do u think that what OP wrote is false. Everything is so much fitting in place. YN was a known to be ruthless. His sons Badrul Jamali n Syed-ul Khair are following in his footsteps and their sister Zohratus Sharaf who is married to Mufaddal Maula is also NOT known to be of mild manners.. The Shehzadas are known to be money and ayyashi loving... it is just that you do not want to accept the truth or fact

According to you , 2 + 2 = 420.

Just because someone's nature is to be ruthless , it doesn't mean that he is the grand conspirator of an audacious theory.

What do you mean by " ayyashi " ?

[Bohra spring]

Regardless of the source of the information or the context...would you really think and believe Husain AS had a verbal communication with a horse !

Can that scenario ever be replicated where a human being in severe situation of tragedy would converse with a horse. conversation is 2 way...it is where a human utters words and the horse responds with logic and reasoning.

Your claim goes to imply the horse was a super horse that had intelligence. Not a simple horse that grunts or whatever sound it makes and has affinity for its master. Once you carefully consider this then try to think what must have really happened and I bet you it may have been jestures and assumption but not conversation or discussing what happens in hereafter.

When religious fanatics go on overdrive in their blind emotional love to explain an event they unconsciously fall into traps that questions credibility or logical reasoning.

Sometimes I wonder whether they need to over dramatise the events ...or is it to spice it up and attract affection.

I will not be surprised if the response is why not why can there not be a super intelligent horse !

[james]

Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin's words from religious texts.

Then why did he need a HINDU to come and testify that SBM told him about the NUSS. If SMS's words are from religious text why does he need the parade of Ramdev-Thackrey-Patil and Modi. Oh forgot SMB's word of religion comes from every religious text except ISLAM

Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin needs no testimony nor do the Bohras who have not an iota of doubt about his Nass. ( Sure , 3-4 lackeys will come along after my post and claim they may have doubts blah blah , but this statement is for the scores of people in the real world )

The Hindu came out of his own free will to tell everyone what has happened to him in his reality . His testimony may be an example of the Shanat of Duat Mutlaqeen but it is noways the only proof of Nass,

And regarding Patil-Modi , It is a hadith by Rasullah SAW along the lines of honoring a distinguished member of a community when he comes visit you . Last time I checked , hadiths of Rasullah SAW were Islamic.

[scared]

Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin needs no testimony nor do the Bohras who have not an iota of doubt about his Nass.

Considering the amount of effort that SMS has been putting into getting his nass validated, the above statement seems like that of a wasted education!!

The Hindu came out of his own free will to tell everyone what has happened to him in his reality . His testimony may be an example of the Shanat of Duat Mutlaqeen but it is noways the only proof of Nass,

Well, there is a small percentage of bohras - believers in Allah, who have said that SMS is a liar. This small percentage is probably hundreds or even thousands of bohras. Quite a few more than one Hindu!! What makes the word of a hindu disbeliever more valuable than that of actual believers of Allah?

And regarding Patil-Modi , It is a hadith by Rasullah SAW along the lines of honoring a distinguished member of a community when he comes visit you . Last time I checked , hadiths of Rasullah SAW were Islamic.

Please do not provide irrelevant references. Patil-Modi are just as distinguished as Hitler-Stalin were. It seems like your North is not pointing North. You might need to get it fixed.

[wise_guy]

Your surety means absolutely nothing to the average person outside of this forum. It may mean a lot to the lackeys over here who just lap up gossip at the drop of the hat without critically analyzing your over the top melodrama.


You as an OP has offered nothing except for a fanciful essay devoid of merit and facts. Pity !

@ James : u call this lapping of gossip at the drop of a hat.. what about bohras being made to believe whatever is said to them .. such as the demand for covers frequently nowadays... various money making schemes (Silatul imam was collected only once a year previously but now it is collected frequently with other innovating sounding cover names... Najwa is collected on frequent occasions...) and lots of other money grabbing schemes.

There is compulsory attendance required out of bohras for misaaq events... 'La ikrah fiddin' is an ayyat from Surah al Baqarah meaning that there is no complusion in religion and yet bohras are compelled to adhere to one or the other diktats from the Kothar or the jamaat. This is no Islam that was founded by Rasullulah (SAW) 1400 years ago

[james]

Regardless of the source of the information or the context...would you really think and believe Husain AS had a verbal communication with a horse !

Can that scenario ever be replicated where a human being in severe situation of tragedy would converse with a horse. conversation is 2 way...it is where a human utters words and the horse responds with logic and reasoning.

Your claim goes to imply the horse was a super horse that had intelligence. Not a simple horse that grunts or whatever sound it makes and has affinity for its master. Once you carefully consider this then try to think what must have really happened and I bet you it may have been jestures and assumption but not conversation or discussing what happens in hereafter.

When religious fanatics go on overdrive in their blind emotional love to explain an event they unconsciously fall into traps that questions credibility or logical reasoning.

Sometimes I wonder whether they need to over dramatise the events ...or is it to spice it up and attract affection.

I will not be surprised if the response is why not why can there not be a super intelligent horse !

I can relate to your predicament . It's same like Agnostics , Atheists , Non Practicing Christians + Jews making fun of us Islamics by quoting supernatural occurrences listed in the Koran.

Out of morbid curiosity , do you believe everything written in the Koran ?

[tasneempati]

My dear bhaiyo & behno it is time for us (Adna Mumin) to enjoy the in-fighting in family. All the amils & other posiyion holders are very much nervous for what will happen next. Most important event will be -
1)- Are the wives of sons of Muffadal moula & QJ bhai saab will stay with their father or return back to their husband.
2)- who will be nominated next Mazoon moula?
3)- What will happen to KQ camp?
4)- How PDB will finally choose their future course?

M Taha please do not give your non sense reply.

[james]

@ James : u call this lapping of gossip at the drop of a hat.. what about bohras being made to believe whatever is said to them .. such as the demand for covers frequently nowadays... various money making schemes (Silatul imam was collected only once a year previously but now it is collected frequently with other innovating sounding cover names... Najwa is collected on frequent occasions...) and lots of other money grabbing schemes.

There is compulsory attendance required out of bohras for misaaq events... 'La ikrah fiddin' is an ayyat from Surah al Baqarah meaning that there is no complusion in religion and yet bohras are compelled to adhere to one or the other diktats from the Kothar or the jamaat. This is no Islam that was founded by Rasullulah (SAW) 1400 years ago

There is no " Demand " per say . Announcements are made before waaz of Dai Zaman on the virtues of offering Najwa Shukr and Silat ul Imam if its Eid ul Fitr or Milad un Nabi , Empty covers get distributed by khidmatguzars if one wants to partake in this good deed. There is absolutely no compulsion/coercion whatsoever to give Najwa Shukr.

Mithaq after the death of Dai is extremely important in Bohra Fiqh , It is deemed compulsory right now as it is vital for Mumin to renew his covenant with the 53rd Dai Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS. Come , Sherullah or Eid Gadeer Khum , it won't be deemed compulsory as it is right now .

[james]

All the amils & other posiyion holders are very much nervous for what will happen next.

And you know this how ?

[tasneempati]

@ James: Yes We know this for sure. Do not think too much & enjoy the show dear. ( By the way - Why your name is James? You didn't find any Bohri/Muslim name)

[james]

@ James: Yes We know this for sure. Do not think too much & enjoy the show dear. ( By the way - Why your name is James? You didn't find any Bohri/Muslim name)

We ?

Am I conversing with a schizophrenic ?

[tasneempati]

@ james: You are perturbed frustated abde. Who has dubious mentality. Firstly why are you here on this forum? Secondly I never asked you to comment on my posts. If you can not digest others opinion better go away.

[alam]

Bhai James

Your efforts to distract and divert the topic away from the Fitnat is duly noted.
If you have substantive knowledge about the content of OP it would be abundantly clear by now.

The dushmani against Mazun Saheb started 25 years ago very openly. We saw that and heard that from heptullahs mouth himself a few weeks ago in his hour long speech, followed by mohaamed yamani. And tons of others who are bent on providing proof of their own "broken misaaq" from the last so many years by how they did dushmani against the Mazun of the 52nd Dai, whom they otherwise claim to love and follow. Kothar is under their usual delusional fantasy that Heptullah testimony destroyed Ex mazunsaheb credibility. Quite the opposite my friend - it provided more support for the Fitnat against syedna burhanuddin's Mazoon.

There is abundant proof of the shehzadas, bhaisahebs, breaking their own misaaq to SYEDNA BURHANDUIN for the last so many years. This is the proof they provide, freely and willingly, of how hypocritical their faith is and how completely honest they are in their Fitnat against Syedna Burhanuddins mazun of 49 years.

I have personally witnessed verbal abuses toward mazun decades ago, and now you go get your propaganda machine and agents to come and try and silence me. That would be more proof of the Fitnat.

The point here is not to promote or support or deny or oppose legitimacy of Nass of one Over another. The point is to uncover the cover ups and deceit that has plagued the residents of Saifee and badri mahal, which has now affected many mumineens and broken families.

The more Kothar and their agents try to defend and cover up, the larger the lies and deception gets, thus offering more and more proof.

[james]

@ james: You are perturbed frustated abde. Who has dubious mentality.

Your delusional psycho analysis is music to my ears.

If you can not digest others opinion better go away.

All the amils & other posiyion holders are very much nervous for what will happen next.

It is a good thing that we have established that your chatter about the amils and other position holders is your opinion minus any factual context.

[tasneempati]

@James:
We ?
Am I conversing with a schizophrenic ?

@ james: You are perturbed frustated abde. Who has dubious mentality.

Your delusional psycho analysis is music to my ears.

If you can not digest others opinion better go away.

All the amils & other posiyion holders are very much nervous for what will happen next.

It is a good thing that we have established that your chatter about the amils and other position holders is your opinion minus any factual context.