Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:37 pm**

juzer esmail wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:09 am https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/m ... 51043.html

I want to thank you, Juzer bhai Esmail, for diligently putting all the articles here. It is very helpful, and I think I am speaking on behalf of many, when I say - Thank You

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:52 pm**

I also wanted to add here the October 19th order from the Mumbai High Court. It gives insights into a few of the Questions, and Inshallah when the full set is available, it will be an interesting read.

A couple of observations. In the para 38, I am curious to know when the digital archivist inserted, by mistake, as per his own admission, “kare chhe” or “nass kare chhe”. The relevant para are 37 and 38. Here is what the order mentions: "He explained that there was indeed an error and a portion had inadvertently got transposed or translocated."

Just curious to know what was changed, especially since the whole debate is about where the words "nass kare chhe" where said or not?

And if people want some humour, please read para 32.

Mumbai_High_cour_order_17-19oct2022.pdf: (172.01 KiB) Downloaded 248 times

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:08 pm**

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/m ... 27397.html

Posted: **Sat Apr 01, 2023 12:40 pm**

Past instances prove that only final nass of succession is valid

so how can we be sure that the last nass was on muffy only and not on Qaid joher

Posted: **Sun Apr 02, 2023 5:25 am**

I think the argument should have ended when two past Dai's did Nass on SKQ namely STS and SMB. Then at last instance SMB changed his mind and did Nass on his son SMS, doesn't sound right. There is more to it then what we see, there is some serious "Gochi" (dirty) going on.
All i have seen during present times, since SMS has came in power the complete Kothar has gone out of control and each individual now think he is Dai. They have complete control over SMS, now SMS has become more of a puppet.

Posted: **Sun Apr 02, 2023 10:11 pm**

true , it seems MS is having no say in kothar and it is run by team of "experts" who does marketing day in day out for money and keep inventing new schemes every day, I get around 5 to 6 emails daily with different schemes and instructions to follow lol

Posted: **Mon Apr 03, 2023 1:18 am**

dal-chaval-palidu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:37 pm
juzer esmail wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:09 am https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/m ... 51043.html
I want to thank you, Juzer bhai Esmail, for diligently putting all the articles here. It is very helpful, and I think I am speaking on behalf of many, when I say - Thank You

Yes many thanks may allah increase your reward!

Posted: **Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:30 pm**

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/m ... 54006.html

Posted: **Tue Apr 04, 2023 6:31 am**

OMG if SMS wins the kothar will become an Azaab on poor mumineens, Then the torture and goonda-gardi will start on full throttle, it will be another pheronic rule May Allah SWT protect the poor souls... Ameen

Posted: **Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:06 pm**

In the old days dawat was ruled by three rutba Dai-Mazoon-Mukasir and later on it was updated as Dai and below are Mazoon and Mukasir. In both scenarios where do all shezadas fit in?
Nowadays even Mazoon and Mukasir are afraid of shezadas. Badri mahal used to be run by Mazoon/Mukasir but now everything is shezada. Most of the times Mazoon and Mukasir are clue less about Dais program too.
What happened to “Imam ye teen rutba kaiem kida che”?

To avoid all these mess, nass must be done in the present of hierarchy. The witnesses of nass should be Mazoon or Mukasir not shezadas.

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 1:42 am**

allbird wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 6:31 am OMG if SMS wins the kothar will become an Azaab on poor mumineens, Then the torture and goonda-gardi will start on full throttle, it will be another pheronic rule May Allah SWT protect the poor souls... Ameen

Just go and Join Taher especially if you are not in INDIA

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:30 am**

Social Awareness wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 1:42 am
allbird wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 6:31 am OMG if SMS wins the kothar will become an Azaab on poor mumineens, Then the torture and goonda-gardi will start on full throttle, it will be another pheronic rule May Allah SWT protect the poor souls... Ameen
Just go and Join Taher especially if you are not in INDIA

Good advice from frying pan into the fire....no thank you...

. Bohraism is not a religion but a Hindu convert CULT. Closer to Hinduism and far away from main stream Islam and we are proud of it (reference watch Youtube video) , we do Dai-puja and Aarti puja of Dai. We hang Dai pictures in our homes close to doors so we do Darshan before going to work, we do Charan-sparsh of Dai for blessing. Tell me if i am wrong open for debate / Mubahela.

i am almost out. Which side are you on ?

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:41 am**

QutbiBohra wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:06 pm In the old days dawat was ruled by three rutba Dai-Mazoon-Mukasir and later on it was updated as Dai and below are Mazoon and Mukasir. In both scenarios where do all shezadas fit in?
Nowadays even Mazoon and Mukasir are afraid of shezadas. Badri mahal used to be run by Mazoon/Mukasir but now everything is shezada. Most of the times Mazoon and Mukasir are clue less about Dais program too.
What happened to “Imam ye teen rutba kaiem kida che”?

To avoid all these mess, nass must be done in the present of hierarchy. The witnesses of nass should be Mazoon or Mukasir not shezadas.

Uhmmm makes sense, yes you are right in many way. For such a high position the witness should match that calibre. These shezadas were trained and natured by YN thus the result EVIL

upbringing.

YN got the foot in the door by getting his daughter married to SMS just like Omar got Aisha married to Rasullah SAW. That Jaali nass in 1965 was the brain child of YN so that his daughter's future is secured. SMB was not scared of SKQ but the villain behind the scene YN and his own children 9 in total and the eldest one Mariam was the main Fasaad ki Jar a complete control freak.

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:56 am**

The arguments concludes

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 10:51 pm**

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/m ... 35011.html

Posted: **Thu Apr 06, 2023 1:25 am**

juzer esmail wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 10:51 pm https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/m ... 35011.html

Thanks again for the wonderful coverage throughout the case. Even if Muffy wins there is a long list of their fallacies and human tendencies amply documented in this thread and this forum for any inquisitive future reader that might be interested. For the ones who are not, pheronic rule is your haqq.
I wish this forum was there in the chandabhai gulla case as well, this might just be one of the most well documented of daawat succession disputes thanks to people like you.
All the others are conveniently locked up in jamea and kothar vaults at the discretion of the clown dais.

Posted: **Thu Apr 06, 2023 1:46 am**

Does anyone knowledgeable in the Indian court system have an idea of what additional timeframe before the judgement is declared? Is it like 15 days or a month, or 3 month, or ... ???

Any intelligent guess?

Posted: **Thu Apr 06, 2023 1:53 am**

this is the first dispute that happened in the internet age with lots of audio/video and other technologies.

I mean, consider the dispute after the 46th dai passed away. A few folks in some house in Surat said so-and-so, or decided something, and that is all we had to go by. Now there are medical records, and audio and video and lots of these documents that they submitted, and the arguments that both sides presented - the consistency, or lack there off, will be at least scrutinized.

I have a feeling, but I could be wrong (have been wrong before many times in the past) that this issue may make the impact of this case somewhat different - inshallah, we shall see.

Posted: **Thu Apr 06, 2023 2:05 am**

dal-chaval-palidu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:52 pm I also wanted to add here the October 19th order from the Mumbai High Court. It gives insights into a few of the Questions, and Inshallah when the full set is available, it will be an interesting read.

A couple of observations. In the para 38, I am curious to know when the digital archivist inserted, by mistake, as per his own admission, “kare chhe” or “nass kare chhe”. The relevant para are 37 and 38. Here is what the order mentions: "He explained that there was indeed an error and a portion had inadvertently got transposed or translocated."

Just curious to know what was changed, especially since the whole debate is about where the words "nass kare chhe" where said or not?

And if people want some humour, please read para 32. Mumbai_High_cour_order_17-19oct2022.pdf

I also find the para 75 in this document quiet informative. In that the witness (Kinaa bhaisaheb, I believe) said that the "Dai has made errors in oral communications, and in their writings. He recalled an error by the 52nd Dai himself."

I find it interesting that SMS' witness is saying that the 52nd Dai made a mistake. Wonder what was the purpose of the same? If we accept that the Dai made a mistake, who is to say he cannot make a mistake in something else, like doing a nass ?

Posted: **Thu Apr 06, 2023 2:10 am**

allbird wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:30 am
Social Awareness wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 1:42 am

Just go and Join Taher especially if you are not in INDIA
Good advice from frying pan into the fire....no thank you... . Bohraism is not a religion but a Hindu convert CULT. Closer to Hinduism and far away from main stream Islam and we are proud of it (reference watch Youtube video) , we do Dai-puja and Aarti puja of Dai. We hang Dai pictures in our homes close to doors so we do Darshan before going to work, we do Charan-sparsh of Dai for blessing. Tell me if i am wrong open for debate / Mubahela.

i am almost out. Which side are you on ?

I am on Allah side reading Quran and praying salah on time and doing fast

as far as culture is concerned I am yet to find better than Bohras in sense of living standards so till then I am continuing with it keeping really law profile and keeping distance

Posted: **Thu Apr 06, 2023 2:15 am**

good to know finally case has been concluded lets see what results come up

I hope Muffy gets a big blow and his charbi comes down

Posted: **Thu Apr 06, 2023 3:01 am**

Does anybody have a reference to an HT article which says when SMB got the stroke (was it May 31st or June 1st, if I remember one of the articles?)

And also when he was admitted to the hospital ? Was is June 3rd?

Reference to the articles would be good. Thanks.

I am trying to understand if there was a gap between these two instances (the time when he got the stroke, and when he was admitted to the hospital)?

Posted: **Thu Apr 06, 2023 8:15 am**

The good exercise out of this court case we all derived is the inside knowledge and the corruption was exposed wide open. It just encourages all of us that if mazoon of 50 years can walk out, we all CAN its doable. We create our own Jannat and Jahanam none of this cheap chor Dai's are going to take us there, they are here to fill their coffers and live high life.

Posted: **Thu Apr 06, 2023 11:29 am**

It will be interesting to see what the court rules on the key points:

What are the stipulations for a Nass in accordance with the faith?
Has the Plaintiff (SKQ, STF) provided sufficient evidence that a Nass was granted to him?
Is it possible to retract, revoke, modify, or replace a conferred Nass in accordance with the faith?
Has the Defendant (SMS) provided sufficient evidence that a Nass was granted to him?

Posted: **Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:47 am**

who ever lied ( and we know who actually lied) has no fear of ALLAH

Posted: **Sat Apr 08, 2023 9:04 am**

Jus t quick question to my learned friends, If tarrahweeh is innovation and added shrikh by the Khalifah of the time and most of the mullana's confirmed Rasullaha SAW never prayed tarrahweeh. Then can anyone confirm did Rasullaha SAW prayed Washeeq's as per our doctorine ? Someone asked me but didn't have a reply for this question.

Posted: **Sat Apr 08, 2023 9:53 am**

allbird wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 9:04 am Jus t quick question to my learned friends, If tarrahweeh is innovation and added shrikh by the Khalifah of the time and most of the mullana's confirmed Rasullaha SAW never prayed tarrahweeh. Then can anyone confirm did Rasullaha SAW prayed Washeeq's as per our doctorine ? Someone asked me but didn't have a reply for this question.

Wasshaiq and all other such special prayers are added by either Imam or awliyah of previous times that's why these prayers are not faraij

this is added to pray more on especial nights as a mark of respect and to keep people busy praying

Posted: **Mon Apr 10, 2023 6:19 am**

Social Awareness wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 9:53 am
allbird wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 9:04 am Jus t quick question to my learned friends, If tarrahweeh is innovation and added shrikh by the Khalifah of the time and most of the mullana's confirmed Rasullaha SAW never prayed tarrahweeh. Then can anyone confirm did Rasullaha SAW prayed Washeeq's as per our doctorine ? Someone asked me but didn't have a reply for this question.
Wasshaiq and all other such special prayers are added by either Imam or awliyah of previous times that's why these prayers are not faraij

this is added to pray more on especial nights as a mark of respect and to keep people busy praying

Thanks for the reply, but it only answers my question partially. From your response if Imams, Dua's and Awlyah added these non-faraij namaz for more Sawab then tawarraweh is NOT Shrik, Right !

So if washeq is not shirk then tawaarraweh is not shirk too ?

Posted: **Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:58 pm**

how can praying to Allah can ever be shirk? who told you this?

SHIRK MEANS MAKING ASSOCIATES/PARTNERS TO ALLAH, WHAT DO SUNNIS RECITE IN TARAWIH WHICH MAKES ASSOCIATES TO ALLAH?

Posted: **Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:13 am**

Simple answer my little friend, Tarraweh are prayed in Jamma'h while washeq's are prayed individual. More diluted for you... Tarraweeh are prayed like Farz namaz while Washeq's are sunnat namaz.

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