The True Imam - How would you verify?

[Adam]

Hanif

Yes, I do believe in Imam Ali AS. OK if Imam Ali SA said we will see him, then we will see him. So why are you asking us how will you verify your Imam and that Dai will verify Imam for the Abdes. Who then needs the Dai to verify the Imam?

We're talking about at the time of Zuhoor (alive).
The Dai of the time will verify the Imam.

You have still not clarified - what if you die suddenly and you have gone in haven, and the Imam in Satr is on earth, how is Dai going to verify the Imam for you. Do you really know what you are talking about?

I am a follower of the Dai. He is my vasilah to the Imam and from the Imam to the Panjatan.

Don't worry about me. I do not need the Dai to verify the Imam. Believe me I am not gropping in the Dark like you guys.

First of all, what is your stance on this whole Imam issue?
Why don't you need to verify the Imam?
If you are claiming to be a Dawoodi Bohra PROGGY, that means you do believe in an Imam in Satr. If you're not claiming to be a DB, please clarify your belief.
(Like stranger, he claims to be a DB, and believes there's an Imam in Satr, but he doesn't know how to veify this imam, since he doesn't follow a Dai)

Read Syedna Hatims and Syedi Lukmanjee bin Habibullah books on this subject.
Can you quote from the book?

1. I don't have the book with me
2. I've shown you the door, you go open it yourself. Why don't you call up your 5 Proggy leaders + Engineer and ask them to help you quote from this book. I'm SURE they'll open their arms widely to help you.

Now you are changing the subject. You told us that the Dai is from Imam Jafar Sadiq and I proved you wrong. Here you are changing from "Dai" to Dai Al-Muthlaq "is or isn't from the line of any Imam doesn't affect the infallibility".

The incompetency is yours.
The Dai Muthlaq during Satr is infallible, as he's on the seat of the infallible Imam. (From Syedna Zoeb to Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin)
That is Dawoodi Bohra belief.
If you read the books quoted above, you'd understand.
You're lost, and confused.

HANIF
What is your belief of the Satr/Imam and Duat.
ANSWER THAT WITHOUT BEING A COWARD.

[stranger]

(Like stranger, he claims to be a DB, and believes there's an Imam in Satr, but he doesn't know how to veify this imam, since he doesn't follow a Dai)

I believe in the seat of Da'i (TUS) but don't expect me to believe in the thaali Moa'zizas or everything thrown to me, i won't. Excuse me.

[Muslim First]

Adam wrote
HANIF
What is your belief of the Satr/Imam and Duat.
ANSWER THAT WITHOUT BEING A COWARD.

If I can add my 2 cents,let us go back to step one
Prove Imamat by Aya's of Qur'an and clear Hadith.
No smoke and mirrors

[humanbeing]

Why A TRUE IMAM is dependent on the Dai to prove his own identity ?

When a believer in Imamate, says that a True Imam will declare his arrival himself and also prove his identity by himself with help of Allah. Why does Abde Scholar not agree to this possibility ?
-------------------------------------------------------

Adam wrote
HANIF
What is your belief of the Satr/Imam and Duat.
ANSWER THAT WITHOUT BEING A COWARD.

Adam, a humble suggestion. Please don’t call others cowards when they don’t answer your questions. Else you know what to call yourself too !

[anajmi]

A infallible person would not do anything against the will of Allah(swt). He has in totality submitted to Allah(Swt).

In that case, there are many more infallible people on earth. They do not do anything against the will of Allah. They have totally submitted to Allah. I've got a couple of bad habits, but as soon as I get rid of those, I will become infallible too!!

If you say they are not infallible, then you will have to give me precise infallibility measuring tools.

Yes. Infallibilty is based on knowledge. Submitting to Allah(swt) is to obey what ever he has commanded to do and avoid all that he has prohibited.

Correct, then we have many more infallible people on earth. Every good muslim is infallible. Apart from that, is there a command from Allah to go into hiding when things do not go according to your plan and your life is in danger and not come out even when corruptions rules?

For eg. There are 2 glasses of water, one is pure and other is contaminated with germs. You have the knowledge about this. Would you drink the contaminated water. Common sense dictates based on the knowledge I will never drink the contaminated water because i understand the evil effects of it.

So you are saying that if I choose the pure glass, knowing that it is pure, it makes me infallible? Why would I choose the contaminated glass on purpose?

All the messengers of Allah(swt) have to be infallible because they were entrusted the responsibility of bringing commandments from Allah to the people. They have been given the knowledge. If we have to doubt about their infallibility than the institution of deliverance of message and the message itself is questionable and then all this discussion have no value.

So you are saying that Allah is dependent on an infallible person to deliver His message?

[anajmi]

Conflicts begin when these members start demanding changes/reforms inside a community in line with the outside world,

That is a valid argument and the Dawoodi Bohra Dai should realize the mistakes that he has made. He has made so many changes to the Islam brought by the prophet (saw), that the religion followed by his abde idiots is no longer known as Islam and his followers no longer refer to themselves as muslims. What a shame!!!

[porus]

Some Gems from Wazkur fil kitab Ismail

1. Imams are manifestations { maZaahir (مظاهر)} of Allah.
2. Allah’s 99 names refers to the names of 99 Imams.
3. Allah’s final name (100th) will be the name of the final Imam (100th), Saheb-e-Qiyamat, Imam al-Qaa’im. Al-Qaaim will enlighten the world with his ‘noor’, destroy tyranny and establish justice.
4. The word ‘kalima’ from Ayat 43:28 is called both kalimat tawheed and kalimat Imamat.

First 3 statements above does not appear to have any basis in the Quran. Abdes are invited to offer an explanation. The book certainly does not offer any explanation.

The 4th statement, like the first 3, is made without any explanation from the Quran. It interprets the ayat to mean that that there will always be Imams in the progeny of Ibrahim. Let us analyze the ayat to see how that interpretation could have arisen.

43:28 “wa ja:alaha kalimatun baaqiyatan fi aqeebi-hi; la’allahum yarji’oon”

Preamble is in ayat 43:26 and ayat 43:27. They state that Ibrahim declares himself free from worship of the gods of his community and will worship the one who created him (Allah) exclusively.

43:28 then states that Ibrahim left/established this word (exclusive worship of the Creator) to endure among his followers so that they may return (to worshipping Allah alone).

Let us then agree that the kalima that he left/established for his followers is kalimat tawheed.

The book translates the word ‘aqeeb’ to mean Ibrahim’s successor Imams.

So the connection is that since kalima must endure then, his aqeeb (Imams) must endure too. Hence kalimat tawheed is the same as kalimat imamat.

Inference is that if there is no Imam, then kalimat tawheed cannot endure.

Do we detect an irony here?

[SBM]

There is no problem with these questions per se? Afterall, every human mind has been provided the faculty to think, albeit with different capacities. Nevertheless, it is not unnatural or irrational behaviour to think and generate questions about things around us, including religion.

However, the problem starts when some people start demanding answers to every question as their fundamental right. .

So what is your opinion about Adam when he demands to know every one's belief before he engages the person, He thinks that it is his fundamental right to know to question every one's belief, please do respond whether you agree about Adam's right to know every one's belief as per your logic

[Muslim First]

A infallible person would not do anything against the will of Allah(swt). He has in totality submitted to Allah(Swt).

So he will stay away from bad stuff or condone bad stuff like curruption?

Yes. Infallibilty is based on knowledge. Submitting to Allah(swt) is to obey what ever he has commanded to do and avoid all that he has prohibited.

So he will stay away from bad stuff or condone bad stuff like curruption?

All the messengers of Allah(swt) have to be infallible because they were entrusted the responsibility of bringing commandments from Allah to the people. They have been given the knowledge. If we have to doubt about their infallibility than the institution of deliverance of message and the message itself is questionable and then all this discussion have no value.

4 Panjatan or Maulana Burhan or Maulai Muffi are not messengers of Allah(swt).Therefore they are not infallable. Prophet SAW was last messenger therefore last infallable person (In dini matters only). Right?

[SBM]

Humble Request to Administration
From now on any discussion regarding DB whether it is ortho or Progressive turns into Shia/Sunni or name calling please move that thread to Islam or other site
This Bohras and Reform should be left for exposing corruption, poverty and abuse by the establishment
I like to live in the real world where our community is suffering and by abusing Syedna we are turning away people who find this forum to express their aggravations as they have no other place or shoulder to cry on . We are providing the solace to those who have no other place to turn

[Hanif]

Hanif

Yes, I do believe in Imam Ali AS. OK if Imam Ali SA said we will see him, then we will see him. So why are you asking us how will you verify your Imam and that Dai will verify Imam for the Abdes. Who then needs the Dai to verify the Imam?

We're talking about at the time of Zuhoor (alive).
The Dai of the time will verify the Imam.Good luck with that.

You have still not clarified - what if you die suddenly and you have gone in haven, and the Imam in Satr is on earth, how is Dai going to verify the Imam for you. Do you really know what you are talking about?

I am a follower of the Dai. He is my vasilah to the Imam and from the Imam to the Panjatan.

Don't worry about me. I do not need the Dai to verify the Imam. Believe me I am not gropping in the Dark like you guys.

First of all, what is your stance on this whole Imam issue?My stance is the same as al-Kirmani's. He says if there is no Imam now, there could not have been an Imam before, meaning the person who claimed Imamat was wrong and therefore there is no Imam now. Satr business is extremely doubtful. Also Kirmani said, Imam has to be visible ...please go read the treatise again. Prove Kirmani wrong. Ask the Dai or his sons to prove Kirmani wrong. His nieces have already testified that the translation of the manuscript was correct. So it is up to you to prove Kirmani wrong. I shall then believe in Imam in Satr.
Why don't you need to verify the Imam?Nobody can verify the Imam, because there is no Imam. Syedna Taher Saifuddin said so in Court. He claimed he was God, so the question of Imam in occultation does not arise.
If you are claiming to be a Dawoodi Bohra PROGGY, that means you do believe in an Imam in Satr. If you're not claiming to be a DB, please clarify your belief.
(Like stranger, he claims to be a DB, and believes there's an Imam in Satr, but he doesn't know how to veify this imam, since he doesn't follow a Dai)God has given me AQL to believe in DB beliefs or not to believe. I do not think there is an Imam in Satr. Therefore, no need for the Dai. And therefore I do not rely on the Dai to verify the Imam. My mother was a DB and I promised her I would look into the faith. She is dead. DB relatives have no knowledge of the faith. All they believe is in the last two Dais. When you ask them the names of other Dais, they will look at each other. And for a while I believed that the last two Dais were good, and I still believe that they brought the bohoras out from the darkness. However, they have no concept of Islam. Islam is not obsessed with money and grandiose. My cousins do not even know who was Huratul Malika. -You cannot carry on a discussion with them because they keep saying "oh, I don't know, Amil said this and Amil said that. I came to this forum to learn about the faith but have learned instead there is no faith, just corruption. Went to malummat and mumineen.org, but there is nothing substantive about religion there, except pictures of ziyafats, weddings, birthdays, etc.

Read Syedna Hatims and Syedi Lukmanjee bin Habibullah books on this subject.
Can you quote from the book?

1. I don't have the book with me
2. I've shown you the door, you go open it yourself. Thanks for showing me your door, but I prefer to open my own door in my own timing. Why don't you call up your 5 Proggy leaders + Engineer and ask them to help you quote from this book. I'm SURE they'll open their arms widely to help you. Let me tell you something Adam. I have learned a lot from this forum, Engineer, Hamdani, Poonawalla and brother Porus. Nothing from your chest thumping Amils. Zilch. People cannot pray peacefully in Ramadhan because they have the fear of being looted! You guys have no knowledge of your faith or Islam.

Now you are changing the subject. You told us that the Dai is from Imam Jafar Sadiq and I proved you wrong. Here you are changing from "Dai" to Dai Al-Muthlaq "is or isn't from the line of any Imam doesn't affect the infallibility".

The incompetency is yours.
The Dai Muthlaq during Satr is infallible, as he's on the seat of the infallible Imam. How does that make him infallible!!!! (From Syedna Zoeb to Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin)None of the Dais are infallible because if they were, Shihh would not have been killed! Don't you get it?
That is Dawoodi Bohra belief.
If you read the books quoted above, you'd understand.
You're lost, and confused.Lost and confused are DBs! I pity you guys. First you say the Dai will verify the Imam, the way Abdullah Shih verified Imam Mahdi. So much for Shih who was killed by the Imam. Then you say the Dai is infallible because he is from Imam Jafar Sadiq but you could not prove to me how? Then you say, Dai Al-Muthlaq whether he is from the line of Imam or not is infallible but you could not prove it from the Qur'an only from Lukmanjee book which are contestable. Amils tell you it is written is such an such book and you buy it. How do you know they were better scholars than Kirmani? Why don't you put them out so we can read and claim that the DB belief is true. Why hide? You guys are the confused ones! It is proved!

I am not afraid to say that I do not believe in Dawoodi Bohora religion. I will find my own path with the help of Allah SWT. I do not need you guys. I am glad I never took the Misaq because my father refused to pay the corrupt Amil what he demanded for himself and syedna and his entourage. My older brother never believe in DB and followed my dad. My father was a Sunni who converted to Sufism.

HANIF
What is your belief of the Satr/Imam and Duat.
ANSWER THAT WITHOUT BEING A COWARD.

I believe Satr is for a short period when Imamat is in danger. There is no danger now so the Imam should come out, if he does not then there is no Imam as DAI KIRMANI said. I do not believe there is Imam in Satr. There never was one! Hence the Duat is not necessary and is a farce. It is just there to keep money machinery rolling! The more I read on this site and other books, the more I am convinced that DB is a cult and not a religion. Happy?

[Adam]

@Hanif

i)God has given me AQL to believe in DB beliefs or not to believe. I do not think there is an Imam in Satr. Therefore, no need for the Dai. And therefore I do not rely on the Dai to verify the Imam.

Dear Hanif
Thank you for clarifying this.
You don't believe there is an Imam present and about Satr.
Neither do you follow the belief of Duat.
(Both of these concepts are Dawoodi Bohra concepts).
Even Porus is of the same view.
You are free to have your own opinion and beliefs in the above.
Since you neither accept the belief in Imamat or Duat, the question of "The True Imam - How would you verify?" doesn't concern you, as you don't believe in the Imam in the first place.
You really don't need to answer this.
Rather, a thread that would concern you would be something like "Is there an Imam?", something like that.
If you can clarify what your opinion of the Fatimid Imams is (on another thread), because you quote Syedna al Kirmani,
so you must believe till Imam Hakim AS? Or not?

This particular thread addresses those you already accept that there is an Imam in Satr and is returning, and when he returns, how he will be verified.

Currently, only DBs and Progs have belief in the Imam in Satr.
DBs have said = Dai will verify
Progs = Stranger says he doesn't know.

[anajmi]

Summarizing the response one more time.

And why do you think that it is "stranger" that represents the progressive view point when he has clearly identified himself as a confused abde?
Confusion, confusion??

Abde Idiot Dawoodi Bohras = Actually, you also don't know the answers and I doubt if anyone really do (quoting stranger).
stranger = and yea, I dont know your definition of progressive but believe me I am very much a common orthodox bohra and I dont care much about accountability (quoting stranger)

Quoting Progressives.
DB Dai: This is our old/new/original/true/infalible/mustakar/mustauda/haazir/naazir Imam.
Reformists: OK, that's great.
DB Dai: Do you accept him as our Imam?
Reformists: Yes, we accept him as our Imam.

[porus]

Porus and Humsafar don't believe in the concept of Imamat and Duat.

I am aware of the concept of Imam and of Dai. I believe that 'Imam in satr' is pious fiction. Dai and his predecessors are a fact. I do not have sympathy with some unorthodox views about them as enunciated by Dai-worshipers. My primary source and support for challenging their views is the Quran.

History, not irrational belief, suggests:

There were 5 Imams from al-Hassan to al-Sadiq. 6th Imam died before becoming an Imam except in consideration of Bohras. Same applies to next 4 Imams. They were not visibly Imams. There were then 10 Imams from al-Mahdi to al-Aamir.

21st Imam, al-Tayyib disappeared without trace. presumably killed by enemies. He was never an Imam except that he was designated as heir to his father.

The power vacuum at the top was filled by consolidation of da'awa activities in Yemen by its ruler Hurrat al-Malika. This consolidation resulted in creation of the office of Dai al-Mutlaq. This office has continued up to the present.

Those are the facts of the history of Bohras which not many historians would dispute.

These facts are then embellished by a set of fabulous beliefs with a mixture of myth and metaphysics which is supported by an oblique interpretation of the Quran leading to grandiose extra-Quranic claims like the infallibility of Dais.

One fable is Imam al-Tayyib was not killed but had decided, in infancy, to go into hiding where his 'aqeeb' (Imams from his progeny) will remain until they decide it is time for them re-appear. While the existence of the silsila of Dais is a fact, the myth, metaphysics and Quran are roped into prop up what some would regard are non-Islamic ways of the Dai.

Fables and myths are unacceptable basis for a religion. I offer my views for consideration which will challenge thinkers. Those who do not think (most abdes) will resort to character-assassination. We have impressive pedigree.

[humanbeing]

Adam, although you have been ignoring many questions with regards to DB community by a DB community member. Can you give your comments on below mentioned queries too.

Why A TRUE IMAM is dependent on the Dai to prove his own identity ?


When a believer in Imamate, says that a True Imam will declare his arrival himself and also prove his identity by himself with help of Allah. Why does Abde Scholar not agree to this possibility ?

[humble_servant_us]

So you are saying that Allah is dependent on an infallible person to deliver His message?

Why did Allah(swt) chose a messenger to deliver his message. He could have inspired everyone on us with his message. So if Allah(Swt) has chosen a person to deliver His message , then it is we who needs him to be infallible, otherwise any error on his part creates doubt within us for the message being delivered. The integrity of the message being delivered is questionable. In this light not only prophet Muhammed(pbuh) but all the messengers of Allah(swt) have to be infallible.

Panjatan or Maulana Burhan or Maulai Muffi are not messengers of Allah(swt).Therefore they are not infallable. Prophet SAW was last messenger therefore last infallable person (In dini matters only). Right?

We believe prophet(pbuh) is infallible in everything. Submission to Allah(swt) is not divided into Deen and Duniya. Its a 24x7 connection with Allah(Swt).

I would not comment on Panjatan Pak(as) because you already know my answer. I am just discussing points common to us, the prophet(pbuh). Lets agree and understand the commonalities first.

[Adam]

@Porus
Thank you for stating the obvious.
We already knew your stance on Fatimid Imams and Duats.

This particular thread addresses those you already accept that there is an Imam in Satr and is returning, and when he returns, how he will be verified.

Currently, only DBs and Progs have belief in the Imam in Satr.
DBs have said = Dai will verify
Progs = Stranger says he doesn't know.

[fearAllah]

Summarizing this thread:

How will you verify the Imam?
Burhani Bohras = Dai is the Imam.......(Confused, confused....!)
Dawoodi Bohras = Imam will punish/execute the Dai

[progticide]

Doctor Mubarak,
Why are you shying away from this topic?

Is it that you enjoy only those topics where you can engage with wahabis/sunnis? You seem to show a lot of enthusiasm on such topics where you have a free run on wahabis/sunnis.

But when it comes to genuine DB topic, like that of Imam and his verification, you excuse yourself as if you have nothing to do with this subject. Are you scared of getting into debates with DBs on genuine DB topics, looks that way.

A lot of questions on this thread are waiting for your responses from a long time. Although I have lost hope of receiving your replies on those questions, you are welcome to answer them whenever you have summed up enough knowledge and courage.

[porus]

@Porus
Thank you for stating the obvious.
We already knew your stance on Fatimid Imams and Duats.

Adam,

We already knew your stance on Fatimid Imams and Duats.

Progs, as you call them, are either in satr or are not interested in your hypothetical and obviously silly question. Some fence-sitters, like humanbeing have, like me, asked you questions which you have persistently dodged. You are not engaged in a forum for discussion but insist on being a Grand Inquisitor riding a high horse.

Let us say that the Dai-woshipers on this board are granted their wish by the Jinn of their Jadooi Chirag (That would be easily believable by Dai-worshipers as they believe in fables regarding history of their Arab forebears).

The wish they have been granted is that only Adam, Progticide, Profastian and other Dai-worshipers will participate in this forum. What will the discussion be like?

Adam: Mola no shukar ane ahsaan aaje Mumbai padhara chhe.
Progticide: Ghano shukar. Shazada ne mein qadambos thayo. Barakat ghani mili.
Profastian: Mara ghare Mola tashreef laya, ziyafat qabool kari, ghanu azeem sharaf enayat kidu Mola-ye. Bahut majaanu rahiyu
Another Dai-worshiper: mein sambhlu ke Mola africa padhaarwana chhe. bahuj naseebdaar kewaay. Mola ni dua si mein bhi Molane milwa Africa jaais.

Kitno ajab shaan no forum rehse! Admin please tame badha munafiko ne yahan si nikaal kadho. Mola tamne yaari aapse.

Bas Mola ni dua chhe.

[SBM]

Doctor Mubarak,
Why are you shying away from this topic?

Is it that you enjoy only those topics where you can engage with wahabis/sunnis? You seem to show a lot of enthusiasm on such topics where you have a free run on wahabis/sunnis.

But when it comes to genuine DB topic, like that of Imam and his verification, you excuse yourself as if you have nothing to do with this subject. Are you scared of getting into debates with DBs on genuine DB topics, looks that way.

A lot of questions on this thread are waiting for your responses from a long time. Although I have lost hope of receiving your replies on those questions, you are welcome to answer them whenever you have summed up enough knowledge and courage.

progticide
AND WHY ARE YOU SHYING AWAY ABOUT CORRUPTION IN JAMAATS . WHAT KIND OF PUNISHMENT TO THE AAMIL WHO ARE INVOLVED IN FRAUD AND CHEATING. WHAT ABOUT POVERTY AMONG MUMINEENS, IS ZIYAFFATS MORE IMPORTANT THEN FEEDING THE HUNGRY MUMINEENS. HOW ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY OF THE FINANCES DONOT SHY AWAY FROM THESE SIMPLE QUESTIONS

[anajmi]

humble_servant_us,

Why did Allah(swt) chose a messenger to deliver his message.

Why?

[anajmi]

Progs = Stranger says he doesn't know.

Is the Dai corrupt and not worthy of his post?
Dawoodi Bohra = He is corrupt and kothar is evil - quoting SBM and Humanbeing who are ejamaat card holding Dawoodi Bohras.

By the way porus,

aren't you also an ejamaat card holding Dawoodi Bohra? I want to quote you as a Dawoodi Bohra when responding to Adam's idiotic line of questioning.

[SBM]

Progs = Stranger says he doesn't know.

Is the Dai corrupt and not worthy of his post?
Dawoodi Bohra = He is corrupt and kothar is evil - quoting SBM and Humanbeing who are ejamaat card holding Dawoodi Bohras.

By the way porus,

aren't you also an ejamaat card holding Dawoodi Bohra? I want to quote you as a Dawoodi Bohra when responding to Adam's idiotic line of questioning.

Br, Anajmi
I have refrained myself from commenting on Syedna directly. I have never said anything about Syedna but yes I am on record calling establishment as Kothari Goons.
It does not serve any purpose and does more harm to our cause attacking Syedna. I am an e jamaat card holder(for how long I do not know) but please refrain using my name from any Shia/Sunni debate-and name calling posts.
I ALONG BOHRAJI HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN GETTING PEOPLE FROM BOTH SIDE OF THE SPECTURM TO HELP POOR MUMINEEN AND I LIKE TO STAY WITH THAT SOCIAL CAUSE AND EXPOSE CORRUPTION.Due to Syedna's age and health just like Aytullah Khomeini have become the pawn in the hands of his corrupt children

[anajmi]

I am not sure why you see this as a shia-sunni debate. This is a prog abde debate.

[fearAllah]

Due to Syedna's age and health just like Aytullah Khomeini have become the pawn in the hands of his corrupt children

Sorry brother SBM but he was also once a child during when Taher started hijacking and torturing the bohras, he is also to blame, just because he is old now that doesnt mean he can be exempted from his sins.

I am an E-jamaat card holder as well and the Dawaat doesnt belong to Sayedna or Bawa Adam to generalize all bohras opinions or views!!!

Summarizing this thread:

How will you verify the Imam?
Burhani Bohras = Dai is the Imam.......(Confused, confused....!)
Dawoodi Bohras = Imam will punish/execute the Dai

[porus]

By the way porus,

aren't you also an ejamaat card holding Dawoodi Bohra?

On the advice of my attorney, I decline to answer this question on the grounds that any answer I offer may incriminate me.

And that is also my response to all those who may ask if I am a Sunni, Shia, Wahhabi, Tayyibi, Dawoodi, Alawi, Sulaimani, Nizari, Ahmedi, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Atheist, Agnostic, Jain, Zoroastrian, Taoist, Sufi or Hare Krishna chanting whirling darwish.

[anajmi]

How will you verify the Imam?
Abde Idiot Dawoodi Bohras = Dai will verify the Imam
Smart Dawoodi Bohras = Imam will punish/execute the Dai (quoting fearAllah, an ejamaat card carrying Dawoodi Bohra)

[Hanif]

[quoteEven Porus is of the same view.][/quote]

Don't you understand? Porus says he does not believe Tayeb went into occultation, therefore NO IMAM IN SATR. He keeps saying Baby Tayeb was probably killed. ! So how does that become a DB belief.

[porus]

My absolutely dazzling Syrian friend, AK, found himself having some time to spare from his death-defying attempts to overthrow Bashir al-Asad.

So the first thing he did was to give me good/bad news that he had met the Imam. He is hiding in the city of al-Qurratayn and is completely dejected. This was the conversation between my friend and the Imam:

AK: Why so glum?

Imam: I am the greatest person on this earth. I speak all the languages of the earth including the extinct and yet to be developed ones. I have wrested everything from Allah because he gave me everything He had without leaving anything for Himself. He is so generous and yet He is now poor and powerless.

AK: You should be glad. You have the power of universe at your fingertips.

Imam; That is what makes me depressed. Allah told me and everyone else that He has vested everything, power, knowledge and all, in me. Now I find Allah was lying.

AK: Why do you say that?

Imam: I have just discovered that there is someone even more powerful than me.

AK: Who could that be, for your sake?

Imam: It is the Dai of Dawoodi Bohras.

AK: You don't say!

Imam: That is the truth. First I have to obtain his raza to declare myself. If he does not verify me, then I am useless.

AK: So, what do you think you can do that he cannot?

Imam: Nothing. I need the support of his followers to do one thing that they have wanted me to do.

AK: What is that?

Imam: I have to destroy the tombs of Abu Bakr and Umar, exhume their remains, burn them and purify Masjid-e-Nabawi.

AK: I thought the Dai was your deputy. Can't you delegate this task to him?

Imam: (crying) Oh, ho ho! I have to prostrate to him and seek his raza. I can't bear this humiliation. I am just going to stay hidden.

AK: Good for you. Here you are among friends.