Br. Humsafar
I can cite one example in USA. As you are aware Bohra Aamils do not like to mix with any other communities but when I was informed about Bohra soldier from Tampa was killed in Iraq I used my friend in Florida to contact Tampa CAIR office to initiate talks with local Aamil and allow that story to be posted in local media. Realizing the importance of positive image of Muslim contribution, Tampa Aamil right away met with CAIR representative and allowed him to take pictures and arrange a meeting with news media with the help of CAIR. This is an unique since Aamil did not hesitate for a second and make excuses about getting RAZA. That Aamil did listen to the insider
to agree to this arrangement.
There are other incidents where local Aamils are getting out and meeting with other Muslim leaders and try to indulge with local Muslim communities upon the insistence of INSIDER BOHRA (read reformist or fence sitters) But it will take time and hopefully just like Islam is getting revived in USA so will the Bohra community.
Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
Can not disagree there.
-
Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
Aftab,
having read your apology, my respect for you has gone up manifold. it takes a rare man to reflect and realise his mistakes.
since you have now explained how you became a reformist, let me also explain why i also have so much fire in me against the kothar and their vile ways and whatever i have done in my humble way to defy and oppose the establishment in my own little humble way.
my fathers and forefathers have done a lot for this community. they ran charitable trusts of their own and poured their wealth into it. my great-grandfather personally took care of the medical needs, education, food and well-being of hundreds of very poor bohra and non-bohra families in the utmost secrecy. so much so that until his death even his own wife and family did not know who were the hundreds of low-caste sweepers, labourers and gutter cleaners who came to his funeral and were beating their chests and heads with utmost despair. he was a medical doctor of the highest calibre and a genius who counted some of the most eminent people of his time as his patients. people like sir dharamsee morarjee gokuldas, jamnalal bajaj, sir mohammed iqbal, even sir adamjee peerbhoy and many others. even today his acoounts books exist with me, listing his income and expenses in the minutest detail and they are like pages out of history, a detailed snapshot of life back then. his philantrophy was legendary. he never turned back a poor patient irrespective of his religion or his caste or creed or his lowly status. some of these people were so poor and unfortunate that they came to him stinking with the work they did, but he treated them as he treated his richest patients, with love, respect and care. and when the patient was going, instead of taking any fees, he would give him money, ostensibly with the excuse to buy fruits or milk etc.
his son - my grandfather - continued in the same vein and was one of those few visionaries who alongwith his close contemporaries set up the muslim national co-op bank in pune, some 100 years ago, purely to help the bohra community. the bank was run with total integrity and provided employment to bohras and other muslims primarily, but did not discriminate against others either.
my father grew up in an environment of service to the community, and although orphaned at a very young age, he devoted a great amount of his time, even at the cost of sacrificing his own family life and money, by being on the board of directors of the bank, the jamaat committee, masjid committee, the kabrastan committee, the committee of the madrasa badriya - a great institution at the time which produced some notable merit listers at the state levels - etc etc. he was always available to help any bohra in need with legal advice, personal problems in marriage. or inter-personal disputes. but he had also imbibed the quality of independent thought and impartial judgement and fearless conviction in the true values of islam. when taher saifuddin started his campaign of terror and forcibly expropriated all the community properties worldwide, incl. pvt trusts of bohras, my father and his colleagues on the jamaat committee put up a stiff resistance and argued forcefully and with all backing of their convictions. they did not bow to his pressure tactics or to his false arguments based on our deen, as they were very well versed on our scriptures themselves.
when taher saifuddin finally threatened to dissolve this entire community, they took the rare step of resigning en masse and since then not only did my father give up all involvement in our community's affairs, but he also became a marked man. he was harrassed and persecuted for his independence and refusal to conform with all the stupid farmaans like dadhi, topi and doing sajda to the dai or pandering like gutless beings to the amil or his chamchas. he kept himself aloof, but kept his pride and his integrity intact. for all this i have seen how he was vilified and how our relations and friends shunned us under pressure from the kothar, how he struggled valiantly to get his daughters married and all the heartache and pain that he suffered. a man who had given his whole life to our deen and to his faith in the dai, saw his dreams and his beliefs shattered and this left him so disillusioned that often he said that his heart was broken at this blatant exploitation, unjust and unethical practices of the kothar, the pain and suffering that the syedna and his ruthless and greedy establishment was causing to the community, in front of his own eyes.
the edifice, so painstakingly created and nurtured by him and his forefathers and by countless other benefactors from our community was being destroyed systematically by these evil people. i have personally witnessed my fathers torment and the great pains that were caused to him affected us all.
due to his knowledge of our deen, + arabic, persian and urdu, and his intimate familiarity with the quran, i listened to him as a young boy, with wonder and fascination when he and his contemporaries engaged in discussions on islam, spirituality, and the misdeeds of taher saifuddin and subsequently his son.
knowing all this, i could have walked away too and joined the reformists openly. but after a lot of thought i decided i would remain inside the community as long as i could and fight and oppose these rascals as much as i could, until of course it may become untenable and i was physically thrown out. i firmly believe that any revolution to succeed must come from within and to that purpose i have been doing my own little bit to educate, convince and convert more people to my way of thinking. this great tree of the evil kothar will have to weakened at its roots for it to topple.
since i am running out of time today, i will detail what i have personally done on my part to defy and rebel against the evil amils and how i take a non-confirmist attitude, in my next post inshallah.
having read your apology, my respect for you has gone up manifold. it takes a rare man to reflect and realise his mistakes.
since you have now explained how you became a reformist, let me also explain why i also have so much fire in me against the kothar and their vile ways and whatever i have done in my humble way to defy and oppose the establishment in my own little humble way.
my fathers and forefathers have done a lot for this community. they ran charitable trusts of their own and poured their wealth into it. my great-grandfather personally took care of the medical needs, education, food and well-being of hundreds of very poor bohra and non-bohra families in the utmost secrecy. so much so that until his death even his own wife and family did not know who were the hundreds of low-caste sweepers, labourers and gutter cleaners who came to his funeral and were beating their chests and heads with utmost despair. he was a medical doctor of the highest calibre and a genius who counted some of the most eminent people of his time as his patients. people like sir dharamsee morarjee gokuldas, jamnalal bajaj, sir mohammed iqbal, even sir adamjee peerbhoy and many others. even today his acoounts books exist with me, listing his income and expenses in the minutest detail and they are like pages out of history, a detailed snapshot of life back then. his philantrophy was legendary. he never turned back a poor patient irrespective of his religion or his caste or creed or his lowly status. some of these people were so poor and unfortunate that they came to him stinking with the work they did, but he treated them as he treated his richest patients, with love, respect and care. and when the patient was going, instead of taking any fees, he would give him money, ostensibly with the excuse to buy fruits or milk etc.
his son - my grandfather - continued in the same vein and was one of those few visionaries who alongwith his close contemporaries set up the muslim national co-op bank in pune, some 100 years ago, purely to help the bohra community. the bank was run with total integrity and provided employment to bohras and other muslims primarily, but did not discriminate against others either.
my father grew up in an environment of service to the community, and although orphaned at a very young age, he devoted a great amount of his time, even at the cost of sacrificing his own family life and money, by being on the board of directors of the bank, the jamaat committee, masjid committee, the kabrastan committee, the committee of the madrasa badriya - a great institution at the time which produced some notable merit listers at the state levels - etc etc. he was always available to help any bohra in need with legal advice, personal problems in marriage. or inter-personal disputes. but he had also imbibed the quality of independent thought and impartial judgement and fearless conviction in the true values of islam. when taher saifuddin started his campaign of terror and forcibly expropriated all the community properties worldwide, incl. pvt trusts of bohras, my father and his colleagues on the jamaat committee put up a stiff resistance and argued forcefully and with all backing of their convictions. they did not bow to his pressure tactics or to his false arguments based on our deen, as they were very well versed on our scriptures themselves.
when taher saifuddin finally threatened to dissolve this entire community, they took the rare step of resigning en masse and since then not only did my father give up all involvement in our community's affairs, but he also became a marked man. he was harrassed and persecuted for his independence and refusal to conform with all the stupid farmaans like dadhi, topi and doing sajda to the dai or pandering like gutless beings to the amil or his chamchas. he kept himself aloof, but kept his pride and his integrity intact. for all this i have seen how he was vilified and how our relations and friends shunned us under pressure from the kothar, how he struggled valiantly to get his daughters married and all the heartache and pain that he suffered. a man who had given his whole life to our deen and to his faith in the dai, saw his dreams and his beliefs shattered and this left him so disillusioned that often he said that his heart was broken at this blatant exploitation, unjust and unethical practices of the kothar, the pain and suffering that the syedna and his ruthless and greedy establishment was causing to the community, in front of his own eyes.
the edifice, so painstakingly created and nurtured by him and his forefathers and by countless other benefactors from our community was being destroyed systematically by these evil people. i have personally witnessed my fathers torment and the great pains that were caused to him affected us all.
due to his knowledge of our deen, + arabic, persian and urdu, and his intimate familiarity with the quran, i listened to him as a young boy, with wonder and fascination when he and his contemporaries engaged in discussions on islam, spirituality, and the misdeeds of taher saifuddin and subsequently his son.
knowing all this, i could have walked away too and joined the reformists openly. but after a lot of thought i decided i would remain inside the community as long as i could and fight and oppose these rascals as much as i could, until of course it may become untenable and i was physically thrown out. i firmly believe that any revolution to succeed must come from within and to that purpose i have been doing my own little bit to educate, convince and convert more people to my way of thinking. this great tree of the evil kothar will have to weakened at its roots for it to topple.
since i am running out of time today, i will detail what i have personally done on my part to defy and rebel against the evil amils and how i take a non-confirmist attitude, in my next post inshallah.
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
aftab,Originally posted by Aftab:
.. I have realized that I have mentioned humility and have shown none. This is nothing but .
you have taqwa brother.this is what we call piousness or words from a purified heart.very rare .
wassalam
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
Thanks for your sentiments. Truly respect your entries.
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
East Africawalla,
Still waiting to know how 'Insiders' are doing a grand job and what kind of positive changes they are making. Share your experience with us so that those in similar situation can learn and maybe act when the time comes.
Still waiting to know how 'Insiders' are doing a grand job and what kind of positive changes they are making. Share your experience with us so that those in similar situation can learn and maybe act when the time comes.
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
Bro Al-Zulfikar,
My salams to you and your forefathers. MAy you succeed in what you are trying to do and may Allah, the Almighty rest the souls of your forefathers in eternal peace. Ameen
I also come from a reformist and progressive family. My father was a part of liberal minded and advanced thinking people and did little bit to serve the community with his friends - this was offcourse disliked by the local kothar and all sort of pressures were applied and whatever they were doing was stopped.
I fully agree with you that Revolution has to come from within. It cannot come from outside. We have to fight from within. That is the reason I am also in the community, as was my father and his friends. We have to do our part - slowly and gradually educate and tell people, in suttle ways, what kothar is doing. We have to sow the seeds of dissent so that people 'think' for a starter - once there is some awareness and they have the habit of analyzing and thinking, foundations of revolutions would have been laid. I am happy to see that new generation is thinking and has started asking questions and that is the very reason, Kothar has started putting emphasis on Madrasahs and Early Marriages. Lot of crap has been taught at Madrasahs and they are brain-washing little children - they are putting great emphasis in teaching that mauala is Everything. Early Marriages is next step to divert young minds to family life, earning and settling down rather than focusing on studying and thinking.
We will prevail, one day, God Willing as it is my belief that We are RIGHT..!!!
My salams to you and your forefathers. MAy you succeed in what you are trying to do and may Allah, the Almighty rest the souls of your forefathers in eternal peace. Ameen
I also come from a reformist and progressive family. My father was a part of liberal minded and advanced thinking people and did little bit to serve the community with his friends - this was offcourse disliked by the local kothar and all sort of pressures were applied and whatever they were doing was stopped.
I fully agree with you that Revolution has to come from within. It cannot come from outside. We have to fight from within. That is the reason I am also in the community, as was my father and his friends. We have to do our part - slowly and gradually educate and tell people, in suttle ways, what kothar is doing. We have to sow the seeds of dissent so that people 'think' for a starter - once there is some awareness and they have the habit of analyzing and thinking, foundations of revolutions would have been laid. I am happy to see that new generation is thinking and has started asking questions and that is the very reason, Kothar has started putting emphasis on Madrasahs and Early Marriages. Lot of crap has been taught at Madrasahs and they are brain-washing little children - they are putting great emphasis in teaching that mauala is Everything. Early Marriages is next step to divert young minds to family life, earning and settling down rather than focusing on studying and thinking.
We will prevail, one day, God Willing as it is my belief that We are RIGHT..!!!
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
JC,
True and lasting revolutions can only come from within and cannot be imposed from the outside. The reformist movement is there to show you what it looks like after the "revolution", it's a beacon signalling the destination. And its brave sailors like you - liberal and open-minded - who will ultimately steer the ship from the choppy waters safely to the shore.
"Fighting from within" is the only thing we can do. It's the right thing to do. No matter how small or subtle it is, we'll have to keep trying. It all adds up. Do tell us what your are doing and how you're carrying this fight so that other can learn and be inspired.
True and lasting revolutions can only come from within and cannot be imposed from the outside. The reformist movement is there to show you what it looks like after the "revolution", it's a beacon signalling the destination. And its brave sailors like you - liberal and open-minded - who will ultimately steer the ship from the choppy waters safely to the shore.
"Fighting from within" is the only thing we can do. It's the right thing to do. No matter how small or subtle it is, we'll have to keep trying. It all adds up. Do tell us what your are doing and how you're carrying this fight so that other can learn and be inspired.
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
Thank you Humsafar.
Just keep on doing small things and as you said, they will add up.
Keep a shorter dari, do not do purjosh matam, subtly criticize things when among sheep, do NOT blame Maula, start blaming Amils, Kothar, Shaikh and stuff. Put up some dissent when ppl are praising and stuff. Say things when ppl are crying on ever increasing wajabat, sabeel and stuff - make comments - I wonder where all that money is going - we just need to break the ice that ppl start thinking. Try avoiding najvas, silats, salams as much as possible.
Little things will do wonders in the end.
Just keep on doing small things and as you said, they will add up.
Keep a shorter dari, do not do purjosh matam, subtly criticize things when among sheep, do NOT blame Maula, start blaming Amils, Kothar, Shaikh and stuff. Put up some dissent when ppl are praising and stuff. Say things when ppl are crying on ever increasing wajabat, sabeel and stuff - make comments - I wonder where all that money is going - we just need to break the ice that ppl start thinking. Try avoiding najvas, silats, salams as much as possible.
Little things will do wonders in the end.
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
The use of the term "metaphor" is common amongst tripplehorns to fool people. What is a metaphor? Wikipedia has a good explanation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor
Metaphor (from the Greek: μεταφορά - metaphora, "a transfer", in rhetoric "transference of a word to a new sense", from μεταφέρω - metaphero, "to carry over, to transfer") is language that directly compares seemingly unrelated subjects. In the simplest case, this takes the form: "The [first subject] is a [second subject]."
In the usage of a metaphor, there is a first subject and a second subject. The second subject is used to enhance the description of the first even though they may be unrelated. In the bohra batini crap, there is no first subject in this metaphor. There is only the second subject. Which implies to me that the term "metaphor" is used by the bohra tripplehorns to explain senseless stuff, or stuff that cannot be explained. There is one other way to explain this stuff = "bigot, bigot, bigot!!!".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor
Metaphor (from the Greek: μεταφορά - metaphora, "a transfer", in rhetoric "transference of a word to a new sense", from μεταφέρω - metaphero, "to carry over, to transfer") is language that directly compares seemingly unrelated subjects. In the simplest case, this takes the form: "The [first subject] is a [second subject]."
In the usage of a metaphor, there is a first subject and a second subject. The second subject is used to enhance the description of the first even though they may be unrelated. In the bohra batini crap, there is no first subject in this metaphor. There is only the second subject. Which implies to me that the term "metaphor" is used by the bohra tripplehorns to explain senseless stuff, or stuff that cannot be explained. There is one other way to explain this stuff = "bigot, bigot, bigot!!!".
-
Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
on my part these are a few things that i have done to uphold my independence and belief in what i believe to be right:
1. i selected my own life partner based on my criteria of what a fearless and independent minded person should be, but at the same time someone who would be deeply spiritual and god fearing and inculcate good values to my children and bring peace, harmony and strength to the family. when i found such a girl, i proposed to her after a lengthy period of knowing each other's thoughts. not only her but her entire family were similar in thinking. i also spared my parents the agony of going through the process of denial and rejection and mischief from fanatics.
2. we have never approached the amils for any raza ever. we performed the aqeeqa of our children by ourselves, we named them as per our own wish keeping in mind that the names had some significance to us.
3. we havent had khatna performed on our daughter, believing it to be a cruel and inhuman practice which deprives her of her basic rights.
4. we have never performed misaq of our children. since we have lived in several countries and have both our families in 2 different continents, we confounded the inquisitive by saying we did it here or there. both our parents were very cooperative in this aspect.
5. we have not paid the jamaat since last 8 years. when approached, i did meet the amil and told him that i would not lie ( as 95% do) but had a house on mortgage. he was upset but instructed me to pay sabeel when i received the notice for the same. i have never recd it and merrily attend the masjid markaz but only when i am invited for a mayyat sadakallah/niyaaz or nikah or some friends child's salgirah jaman. as a rule i do not attend darees or any other function where false propaganda and nonsensical things are recited.
6. we have never ever attended any live relays or kadambosis of the syedna.
7. we attend ashura only in the afternoon session, but leave just after shahadat, without waiting for the tamasha of maatm or the niyaaz jaman. it is too painful for me to watch the previously grieving bohras now falling upon the food like hungry wolves.
8. for knowledge sakes we attend the ishna ashari masjid during moharram and provide sabeel to the fasting shias.
9. we have never ever arranged a majlis at any of my houses through the bohras. we invite a shia scholar to deliver a lecture on a chosen theme and invite our bohra and non bohra muslim friends to come and listen followed by niyaz. we have never had any problem so far with the orthodox bohras.
10. i do not keep a beard or wear a topi to work etc. neither does my wife wear a ridha, except when absolutely necessary.
11. we attend pooja's or baptisms or weddings in gurdwaras or churches or mandirs or in friends' homes. it is not neccessary that we worship their god, but we participate in all other activities and support our friends during these events with organising food, logistics, etc. as a family we believe in respecting others beliefs and understanding their religion, culture and way of life, even if we consider islam to be the final word of god and the culmination of all that went before. our respect for others faiths have led to many of our non-muslim friends wanting to genuinely know more about islam and attend our events too in a spirit of genuine understanding and love.
12. i sold my flats in bohra societies and moved my parents to neutral territory, so that we could not be dictated to.
13. i even moved my business out of our bohra locality in india and changed certain aspects of it where our major customers were bohras, just so that we could not be held to ransom by the amil or kothar one day.
13. in india i managed to get a property of ours occupied by the jamaat, vacated by some very daring arm-twisting and without paying them a single penny to leave! they had been trying their best to employ delaying tactics, to harass as well as to make us give them a hefty sum to vacate, when my father, out of the goodness of his heart had leased them the space without any deposit. inspite of direct discussions with the amil and the committee members, they kept stalling. this went on for 6 months and our own business project intended for that place had to be put on hold.
i finally sent out letters to the jamaat secretary and 1-2 committee members that we have sold off the property and since we are no longer the owners, the new owners would be responsible for their continued occupation or not, depending on his wish. this caused a huge consternation and the amil was so agitated that phone calls were flying all over the place. i was contacted to come and apologise (they had come to know i was in town) to the amil and explain all this. not only did i refuse but i told the secretary that if the amil wants he can call me at my house and talk to me. besides since we were no longer the owners, they would have to deal with the new guy. now realising that the golden eggs which they were expecting would hatch with their deliberate harrasssment tactics had gone from their clutches, they shamelessly started asking for money! i bluntly refused and instead directed them to the new guy whom i had already taken into confidence. he was a non-muslim and a very good friend and well-known person. when they heard his name, guess what? they vacated the premises in 24 hours and the secretary personally came to deliver the keys. not only that he apologised for getting us upset and for any inconvenience!
since then they have hushed up the matter themselves and made no further demands from us.
this is just a synposis of the few things i have done to show my defiance. if everyone tries atleast to avoid pandering to the amils, chamchas and going to them for razas and other such minor stuff, believe me we can break the back of this evil establishment. hit them where it hurts most, their pocketbooks. if their incomes dry up, so will their arrogance and dadagiri.
those bohras who have no friends outside the community, lack confidence, education and the ability to mix with other religions, cultures and races, end up in the clutches of the kothar as they have no alternative beyond their restricted lives within the community. their women will be so dependent on the daily socials like majlises, sabaks, tasbeehs, kheer puris, etc etc that to even contemplate leaving it partially is a horror.
i am proud to be a bohra, but not proud to be what we have become today, made so by the evil kothar. i am proud of our traditions and culture, but that doesnt mean that i have to be a slave to them. my resolve is to remain as long as i can within this community, and perhaps because of my brave defiance, so far no one has dared to stop me or question me. i also know that the day i walk out, i will cease to be of any consequence to the amil or syedna. perhaps they will be very glad to get rid of me...
analyse and reflect on what binds you to the community, and then work in reducing those shackles.
1. i selected my own life partner based on my criteria of what a fearless and independent minded person should be, but at the same time someone who would be deeply spiritual and god fearing and inculcate good values to my children and bring peace, harmony and strength to the family. when i found such a girl, i proposed to her after a lengthy period of knowing each other's thoughts. not only her but her entire family were similar in thinking. i also spared my parents the agony of going through the process of denial and rejection and mischief from fanatics.
2. we have never approached the amils for any raza ever. we performed the aqeeqa of our children by ourselves, we named them as per our own wish keeping in mind that the names had some significance to us.
3. we havent had khatna performed on our daughter, believing it to be a cruel and inhuman practice which deprives her of her basic rights.
4. we have never performed misaq of our children. since we have lived in several countries and have both our families in 2 different continents, we confounded the inquisitive by saying we did it here or there. both our parents were very cooperative in this aspect.
5. we have not paid the jamaat since last 8 years. when approached, i did meet the amil and told him that i would not lie ( as 95% do) but had a house on mortgage. he was upset but instructed me to pay sabeel when i received the notice for the same. i have never recd it and merrily attend the masjid markaz but only when i am invited for a mayyat sadakallah/niyaaz or nikah or some friends child's salgirah jaman. as a rule i do not attend darees or any other function where false propaganda and nonsensical things are recited.
6. we have never ever attended any live relays or kadambosis of the syedna.
7. we attend ashura only in the afternoon session, but leave just after shahadat, without waiting for the tamasha of maatm or the niyaaz jaman. it is too painful for me to watch the previously grieving bohras now falling upon the food like hungry wolves.
8. for knowledge sakes we attend the ishna ashari masjid during moharram and provide sabeel to the fasting shias.
9. we have never ever arranged a majlis at any of my houses through the bohras. we invite a shia scholar to deliver a lecture on a chosen theme and invite our bohra and non bohra muslim friends to come and listen followed by niyaz. we have never had any problem so far with the orthodox bohras.
10. i do not keep a beard or wear a topi to work etc. neither does my wife wear a ridha, except when absolutely necessary.
11. we attend pooja's or baptisms or weddings in gurdwaras or churches or mandirs or in friends' homes. it is not neccessary that we worship their god, but we participate in all other activities and support our friends during these events with organising food, logistics, etc. as a family we believe in respecting others beliefs and understanding their religion, culture and way of life, even if we consider islam to be the final word of god and the culmination of all that went before. our respect for others faiths have led to many of our non-muslim friends wanting to genuinely know more about islam and attend our events too in a spirit of genuine understanding and love.
12. i sold my flats in bohra societies and moved my parents to neutral territory, so that we could not be dictated to.
13. i even moved my business out of our bohra locality in india and changed certain aspects of it where our major customers were bohras, just so that we could not be held to ransom by the amil or kothar one day.
13. in india i managed to get a property of ours occupied by the jamaat, vacated by some very daring arm-twisting and without paying them a single penny to leave! they had been trying their best to employ delaying tactics, to harass as well as to make us give them a hefty sum to vacate, when my father, out of the goodness of his heart had leased them the space without any deposit. inspite of direct discussions with the amil and the committee members, they kept stalling. this went on for 6 months and our own business project intended for that place had to be put on hold.
i finally sent out letters to the jamaat secretary and 1-2 committee members that we have sold off the property and since we are no longer the owners, the new owners would be responsible for their continued occupation or not, depending on his wish. this caused a huge consternation and the amil was so agitated that phone calls were flying all over the place. i was contacted to come and apologise (they had come to know i was in town) to the amil and explain all this. not only did i refuse but i told the secretary that if the amil wants he can call me at my house and talk to me. besides since we were no longer the owners, they would have to deal with the new guy. now realising that the golden eggs which they were expecting would hatch with their deliberate harrasssment tactics had gone from their clutches, they shamelessly started asking for money! i bluntly refused and instead directed them to the new guy whom i had already taken into confidence. he was a non-muslim and a very good friend and well-known person. when they heard his name, guess what? they vacated the premises in 24 hours and the secretary personally came to deliver the keys. not only that he apologised for getting us upset and for any inconvenience!
since then they have hushed up the matter themselves and made no further demands from us.
this is just a synposis of the few things i have done to show my defiance. if everyone tries atleast to avoid pandering to the amils, chamchas and going to them for razas and other such minor stuff, believe me we can break the back of this evil establishment. hit them where it hurts most, their pocketbooks. if their incomes dry up, so will their arrogance and dadagiri.
those bohras who have no friends outside the community, lack confidence, education and the ability to mix with other religions, cultures and races, end up in the clutches of the kothar as they have no alternative beyond their restricted lives within the community. their women will be so dependent on the daily socials like majlises, sabaks, tasbeehs, kheer puris, etc etc that to even contemplate leaving it partially is a horror.
i am proud to be a bohra, but not proud to be what we have become today, made so by the evil kothar. i am proud of our traditions and culture, but that doesnt mean that i have to be a slave to them. my resolve is to remain as long as i can within this community, and perhaps because of my brave defiance, so far no one has dared to stop me or question me. i also know that the day i walk out, i will cease to be of any consequence to the amil or syedna. perhaps they will be very glad to get rid of me...
analyse and reflect on what binds you to the community, and then work in reducing those shackles.
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
Zulfiqar, I admire your courage in standing up to the bullies, but from the details of your involvement with the community it seems you are more on the periphery rather than "inside". In fact for all practical purposes you are more outside than inside. This is not to detract from the guts it takes to operate on your own terms, nor I'm making a value juegement, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how all this constitutes "fighting from within".
You are not operating from within, nor are you part of the system as a full paying member. Where does your decision "to stay within the community" and "oppose these rascals" fit into all this. You are like a maverick - a lone ranger - who comes and goes as he pleases and the amil and his chamchas probably ignore you because they don't see you as a threat to them. Please don't go on the defensive, I'm only trying to analyse this in the light of assertions you've been making. You may have your own reasons for your choices - and I truly respect that - but I'm sorry to say this is no way to bring about revolution from within.
You are not operating from within, nor are you part of the system as a full paying member. Where does your decision "to stay within the community" and "oppose these rascals" fit into all this. You are like a maverick - a lone ranger - who comes and goes as he pleases and the amil and his chamchas probably ignore you because they don't see you as a threat to them. Please don't go on the defensive, I'm only trying to analyse this in the light of assertions you've been making. You may have your own reasons for your choices - and I truly respect that - but I'm sorry to say this is no way to bring about revolution from within.
-
Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
humsafar, i agree with u. i am on the periphery. but a lot of my friends within the community know what i am upto and i see that a lot of them have now started doing what i do. i dont know if its my influence, i cannot automatically take credit for that, but i see that there are many like me who hardly ever go to the markaz/masjid, pay only the bare minimum, in fact many of them deliberately go into arrears and then settle later for 3-4 years in a lumpsum.
most of them dont keep a beard or are clean shaven, dont go even when called, never keep majlises at their house inspite of pressure.. perhaps they are all on the periphery like me. but isnt this also a way of rebellion? this attitude is contagious when spread to the right people who we feel are ripe for the message.
since i have never involved myself deeply in community activities like my father and forefathers, i cannot claim to have caused some great ripples by my dis-association, but nevertheless, isnt that how a little trickle one day can become a flood?
would you have me pay their dues as per their demands and then raise my voice? if i pay up and act as they want like a devout abde-syedna then whats the difference between me and the other taheris? in that case you and aftab would be fully justified to say that i give in to force and then only come here like a hypocrite to vent steam.
no, i am not going on the defensive and in fact when you place things in the proper perspective, i do realise that perhaps they ignore me as they think i am of no consequence. but that low profile is very deliberately cultivated. i have no wish to draw attention to myself or any itch to become a lion of the community as most others have. some act all important by bustling about here and there, some donate iftaris and jamans duing ramadhan and moharram, or by shouting out marsiyas. i have no such ambitions to seek glory for myself.
most of them dont keep a beard or are clean shaven, dont go even when called, never keep majlises at their house inspite of pressure.. perhaps they are all on the periphery like me. but isnt this also a way of rebellion? this attitude is contagious when spread to the right people who we feel are ripe for the message.
since i have never involved myself deeply in community activities like my father and forefathers, i cannot claim to have caused some great ripples by my dis-association, but nevertheless, isnt that how a little trickle one day can become a flood?
would you have me pay their dues as per their demands and then raise my voice? if i pay up and act as they want like a devout abde-syedna then whats the difference between me and the other taheris? in that case you and aftab would be fully justified to say that i give in to force and then only come here like a hypocrite to vent steam.
no, i am not going on the defensive and in fact when you place things in the proper perspective, i do realise that perhaps they ignore me as they think i am of no consequence. but that low profile is very deliberately cultivated. i have no wish to draw attention to myself or any itch to become a lion of the community as most others have. some act all important by bustling about here and there, some donate iftaris and jamans duing ramadhan and moharram, or by shouting out marsiyas. i have no such ambitions to seek glory for myself.
-
Hussain_KSA
- Posts: 874
- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
Brother Al Zulfiqar,
I really respect your writing. Would you like to tell us the where are you from? I mean which city of India you are staying right now?
I really respect your writing. Would you like to tell us the where are you from? I mean which city of India you are staying right now?
-
ponga bhori
- Posts: 410
- Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 4:01 am
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
DearAl-Zulfi,
Read the many "YOUR STORY" (Reform Issues).
Like every one, I repeat "every one" else one day you shall be thrown out. Luckily you are not in India and may escape being beaten up like the others.
For all practical purposes you are already an "outsider"....no misaqs, no payments, non relegious attendances. Stop fooling yourself you are no bohri. You cannot fool this Ponga.
Read the many "YOUR STORY" (Reform Issues).
Like every one, I repeat "every one" else one day you shall be thrown out. Luckily you are not in India and may escape being beaten up like the others.
For all practical purposes you are already an "outsider"....no misaqs, no payments, non relegious attendances. Stop fooling yourself you are no bohri. You cannot fool this Ponga.
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
Zulfiqar,
As I said you have the right to live your life the way you want. All I'm saying is that your actions do not quite square with your claim of staying inside and fighting nor does do they call for the kind of guts you were talking about.
As I said you have the right to live your life the way you want. All I'm saying is that your actions do not quite square with your claim of staying inside and fighting nor does do they call for the kind of guts you were talking about.
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
JC,
I appreciate what you are doing. It's important to get people to talk and express their dissatisfaction with the way things are going. But at some point this must result in some kind of organising, no matter how informal, and some kind of concrete action. It often happens that people talk, express their anger and then forget about it and go their way. This has been going for years and nothing seems to happen, instead the pressures from the amil go on increasing and despite the anger and talk people submit to the demands.
Unless there is some collective resistance - starting with small issues and then going on to bigger things - little will be achieved. And over the long term what happens is that one ends up becoming party - unwillingly and unwittingly - to the very system one hates.
The idea that one is "inside" and doing the fighting is appealing and is good for the soul but unless it leads some action it will remain just that - an idea, and a romantic ond at that.
I appreciate what you are doing. It's important to get people to talk and express their dissatisfaction with the way things are going. But at some point this must result in some kind of organising, no matter how informal, and some kind of concrete action. It often happens that people talk, express their anger and then forget about it and go their way. This has been going for years and nothing seems to happen, instead the pressures from the amil go on increasing and despite the anger and talk people submit to the demands.
Unless there is some collective resistance - starting with small issues and then going on to bigger things - little will be achieved. And over the long term what happens is that one ends up becoming party - unwillingly and unwittingly - to the very system one hates.
The idea that one is "inside" and doing the fighting is appealing and is good for the soul but unless it leads some action it will remain just that - an idea, and a romantic ond at that.
-
Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
humsafar,
with all due respect, tell me what have the people who left the oppressive fold done to keep on fighting the evil kothar?
as i have told u, i know most of the openly reformist bohras here exist in a cocoon, and all that they do is meet at their centre on occasions and disperse. if you are so critical of gutless me counting for nothing, then pray please enumerate what the reformists are doing on an individual basis or even collectively in the west?
if it were not for the insider bohras of reformist bent coming here and providing inside information, the reformists would not even know whats going on, unless they read the kothari websites. they are so far removed from the equation.
with all due respect, tell me what have the people who left the oppressive fold done to keep on fighting the evil kothar?
as i have told u, i know most of the openly reformist bohras here exist in a cocoon, and all that they do is meet at their centre on occasions and disperse. if you are so critical of gutless me counting for nothing, then pray please enumerate what the reformists are doing on an individual basis or even collectively in the west?
if it were not for the insider bohras of reformist bent coming here and providing inside information, the reformists would not even know whats going on, unless they read the kothari websites. they are so far removed from the equation.
-
Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
you are right as you always are.Originally posted by ponga bhori:
DearAl-Zulfi,
Read the many "YOUR STORY" (Reform Issues).
Like every one, I repeat "every one" else one day you shall be thrown out. Luckily you are not in India and may escape being beaten up like the others.
For all practical purposes you are already an "outsider"....no misaqs, no payments, non relegious attendances. Stop fooling yourself you are no bohri. You cannot fool this Ponga.
and why would i waste my time fooling somone who cannot be fooled?
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
Zulfiqar,
Now you are going on the defensive as I had feared.
If you've to ask "tell me what have the people who left the oppressive fold done to keep on fighting the evil kothar?' then I'm afraid you 've little idea of what reform movement has achieved and what it is doing. For starters, without this website you'll have nowhere to go and let off steam.
But let's not get into a slanging match as to what you are doing and what we are doing. That was never an issue. What you are doing is important in its own way and I've no problem with that. All I was trying to point out is that your actions do not match up with your claims. Period.
Please bear in mind, the bohras in the west - reformists or otherwise - count for nothing. They are too few and too far removed from the scene of action to initiate or influence any change. In fact they - both reformists and orthos in the west - are more conservative than those in India/Pakistan, given the alien culture they live in. The orthos in the west in fact are more susceptible and slavish to the blandishments of the kothar and will probably the last ones to bring about any change.
Let me assure you that inside information insiders provide here is really appreciated. We all are doing our bit in whatever way we can. To say one is better than the other is a pointless argument and it doesn't interest me at all.
Now you are going on the defensive as I had feared.
If you've to ask "tell me what have the people who left the oppressive fold done to keep on fighting the evil kothar?' then I'm afraid you 've little idea of what reform movement has achieved and what it is doing. For starters, without this website you'll have nowhere to go and let off steam.
But let's not get into a slanging match as to what you are doing and what we are doing. That was never an issue. What you are doing is important in its own way and I've no problem with that. All I was trying to point out is that your actions do not match up with your claims. Period.
Please bear in mind, the bohras in the west - reformists or otherwise - count for nothing. They are too few and too far removed from the scene of action to initiate or influence any change. In fact they - both reformists and orthos in the west - are more conservative than those in India/Pakistan, given the alien culture they live in. The orthos in the west in fact are more susceptible and slavish to the blandishments of the kothar and will probably the last ones to bring about any change.
Let me assure you that inside information insiders provide here is really appreciated. We all are doing our bit in whatever way we can. To say one is better than the other is a pointless argument and it doesn't interest me at all.
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
humsafar,
with all due respect, tell me what have the people who left the oppressive fold done to keep on fighting the evil kothar?
Al Zulficar – please read the reports of the concluded All Dawoodi Bohra Conference in Udaipur on this web. Dr. engineer was in Toronto last week and he spoke at length about the conference and the resolutions passed. The conference had messages from the President of India, 4 present State Governors, former prime minister of India, many intellectuals, and high court judges and on and on. Do you know how many conferences take place in India and to receive attention from the president of India is a major victory? Most of the Muslim leaders who were bought by the kothar and sided with them are in hiding because of the bad publicity they received from the press. These mullahs will never dare to challenge the reform movement as we also have developed influences with the press, politicians and intellectuals during our propaganda efforts.
We have matured a lot in India. Our fight is not new and we are really harassing them at every level very effectively. We also need them to be harassed from with in, provided they you are truly with in. The reason we have not succeeded completely is because they have too many Abde Syednas with in. Once these Abde Syedna wake up or are terrorized and can not bear it any more and fall out, they too will become reformist by default.
with all due respect, tell me what have the people who left the oppressive fold done to keep on fighting the evil kothar?
Al Zulficar – please read the reports of the concluded All Dawoodi Bohra Conference in Udaipur on this web. Dr. engineer was in Toronto last week and he spoke at length about the conference and the resolutions passed. The conference had messages from the President of India, 4 present State Governors, former prime minister of India, many intellectuals, and high court judges and on and on. Do you know how many conferences take place in India and to receive attention from the president of India is a major victory? Most of the Muslim leaders who were bought by the kothar and sided with them are in hiding because of the bad publicity they received from the press. These mullahs will never dare to challenge the reform movement as we also have developed influences with the press, politicians and intellectuals during our propaganda efforts.
We have matured a lot in India. Our fight is not new and we are really harassing them at every level very effectively. We also need them to be harassed from with in, provided they you are truly with in. The reason we have not succeeded completely is because they have too many Abde Syednas with in. Once these Abde Syedna wake up or are terrorized and can not bear it any more and fall out, they too will become reformist by default.
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
Lets pause for a second. I believe when Zulfikar was using the term "insider" I do not think he was implying that he was at the levers of power in the community. I beleive he was suggesting that he had not physically left the "theatre of operations" although intellectually he was not there and which is a case with so many of us who attend these charades.
However, the effect of his actions on other community memebers should not be under-estimated. When individuals like Zulfikar in the community do the things they do, it makes the others who do not have the "balls" and are going along very envious. It forces them to examine the eunuch side of them. When they see you participating without a beard it is an act of defiance which they want the powers to deal with. If they do not do so, the leaders are perceived to be weak in the eyes of the jamaat and are branded as hypocites. Also the bearded guys see you and are asking themselves why they are not bold enough to do the same. Of course they rationalize their conduct in either of the following two ways: "maula nu farman che"( too suggest they are deep in the fold) or "su karso karvu pare che" and the men either blame their wives or the fact that they have daughters to get married away.
Also you do not have to be in the "theatre" with the jamaat to bring about change. I find when I am socializing with other bohoras at someone's home (and inevitably THIS topic always comes up)I raise in a subtle manner the state of the jammat and the coercion and a heated discussion ensues. At the end of the discussion, however, everyone becomes melancholy and resigned to the fact that they are shackled. It is when you say "You really do not have to do it". Look I am getting away with it but it is really an individual choice and live it there. I am sure all the participants when they go home talk about the discussion.
The context however is important. I am talking from the perspective of a jamaat in North America. The small numbers and the fact no one can openly assault you and get away with does help. However, in the big jamaats one cannot be an insider and demonstrate an act of defiance. If one does not tow the line you become a complete outsider and isolated. But do not forget the next frontier for Kothar is North America and they have started making their forays in Nort America. The dollar beckons and it is here where the confrontation shall take place because they have to allow us to participate till they can convince this civil society that the can excommunicate here too.
However, the effect of his actions on other community memebers should not be under-estimated. When individuals like Zulfikar in the community do the things they do, it makes the others who do not have the "balls" and are going along very envious. It forces them to examine the eunuch side of them. When they see you participating without a beard it is an act of defiance which they want the powers to deal with. If they do not do so, the leaders are perceived to be weak in the eyes of the jamaat and are branded as hypocites. Also the bearded guys see you and are asking themselves why they are not bold enough to do the same. Of course they rationalize their conduct in either of the following two ways: "maula nu farman che"( too suggest they are deep in the fold) or "su karso karvu pare che" and the men either blame their wives or the fact that they have daughters to get married away.
Also you do not have to be in the "theatre" with the jamaat to bring about change. I find when I am socializing with other bohoras at someone's home (and inevitably THIS topic always comes up)I raise in a subtle manner the state of the jammat and the coercion and a heated discussion ensues. At the end of the discussion, however, everyone becomes melancholy and resigned to the fact that they are shackled. It is when you say "You really do not have to do it". Look I am getting away with it but it is really an individual choice and live it there. I am sure all the participants when they go home talk about the discussion.
The context however is important. I am talking from the perspective of a jamaat in North America. The small numbers and the fact no one can openly assault you and get away with does help. However, in the big jamaats one cannot be an insider and demonstrate an act of defiance. If one does not tow the line you become a complete outsider and isolated. But do not forget the next frontier for Kothar is North America and they have started making their forays in Nort America. The dollar beckons and it is here where the confrontation shall take place because they have to allow us to participate till they can convince this civil society that the can excommunicate here too.
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
observer,
Let us also try to separate religion from the bohra cult. Keeping a beard is a sunnah of the prophet not just a command from the kothar. Let us not take it further than the beard.
Let us also try to separate religion from the bohra cult. Keeping a beard is a sunnah of the prophet not just a command from the kothar. Let us not take it further than the beard.
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
I have a lot of experience with those who are inside. In fact we meet them often. These are well positioned in life to step out if they wanted to. They have a wide circle of friends outside of the community. I call them "Indiawalla's" (it is a coincidence that they all come from India, it is not meant to be derogative) and they bitterly complain about the present system. When they talk you would not be able to tell who the reformist is and who is inside. They can say whatever they want to us but the moment we put our two cents, their antennas go up and they become defensive. There fore I have decided to keep quite and let them rant.
I have been excommunicated here, I dare not enter the masjid (members only, they have made religion in to a club). So please do not say that there is no excommunication here.
I have been excommunicated here, I dare not enter the masjid (members only, they have made religion in to a club). So please do not say that there is no excommunication here.
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
Observer,
Thanks for you comments, you bring important insight to the topic. I agree, every act of defiance, no matter how insignificant, will have its effect and may trigger a thought and even action in others. I think my posts have been misunderstood. I was in no way trying to belittle what Zulfiqar or other insiders are doing. In fact, I really admire the way he dealt with his local amil, and the way he is living on his own terms even though it means living on the periphery. The sacrifice and courage involved in those choices are not lost on me. Also, I read Zulfiqar's posts with interest. He's not only prolific but also brings a particular passion and frisson in the telling of them which I enjoy.
We need more people to share stories and experiences with us here.
As I keep repeating, the inside/outside is a pointless issue, a false dichotomy. We're all one, working towards the same goal in our own way. If at some point if we can intersect and collaborate that would be great. If not, that's fine too. In either case we will continue to do what we feel is the right thing to do. Change is a law of nature. Kothar will not be there forever. It's demise too will come. In good time.
Thanks for you comments, you bring important insight to the topic. I agree, every act of defiance, no matter how insignificant, will have its effect and may trigger a thought and even action in others. I think my posts have been misunderstood. I was in no way trying to belittle what Zulfiqar or other insiders are doing. In fact, I really admire the way he dealt with his local amil, and the way he is living on his own terms even though it means living on the periphery. The sacrifice and courage involved in those choices are not lost on me. Also, I read Zulfiqar's posts with interest. He's not only prolific but also brings a particular passion and frisson in the telling of them which I enjoy.
We need more people to share stories and experiences with us here.
As I keep repeating, the inside/outside is a pointless issue, a false dichotomy. We're all one, working towards the same goal in our own way. If at some point if we can intersect and collaborate that would be great. If not, that's fine too. In either case we will continue to do what we feel is the right thing to do. Change is a law of nature. Kothar will not be there forever. It's demise too will come. In good time.
-
Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
observer,
you made a very pertinent observation in that very often those who do not or cannot emulate you in your bold and fearless behaviour, will either envy you secretly for being so free and daring and getting away with it, or they will hate you fiercely for being different when they themselves are forced by circumstances or their own weakness to conform.
both me and my father have encountered people of both types. some have openly admired us for our guts and some have caused us considerable pain in society due to their hatred for our independent stance. the latter types have tried to hurt us socially, spreading false and misleading rumours about us totally unconnected to the religious aspect. basically their refrain is, "shu samjhe che apna apne, ghana hoshiyar che? hamne bewakoof samjhe che?" !!
it is their own insecurities and guilt or shame or whatever for bending to every farmaan of the amil and getting fleeced that makes them curse us. we have never sought any confrontation with such people yet they actively seek to engage us in disputes. this is a regular occurence. we hear about this from others who tell us that although we do not attend the markaz and are hardly ever seen there, there are people who keep track of such things and are eager to pick a fight with us or finger us if the opportunity arises.
building up a wall of defiance and daring (even a bit of humour) around yrself helps in deterring such people from even approaching you. this is my experience.
you made a very pertinent observation in that very often those who do not or cannot emulate you in your bold and fearless behaviour, will either envy you secretly for being so free and daring and getting away with it, or they will hate you fiercely for being different when they themselves are forced by circumstances or their own weakness to conform.
both me and my father have encountered people of both types. some have openly admired us for our guts and some have caused us considerable pain in society due to their hatred for our independent stance. the latter types have tried to hurt us socially, spreading false and misleading rumours about us totally unconnected to the religious aspect. basically their refrain is, "shu samjhe che apna apne, ghana hoshiyar che? hamne bewakoof samjhe che?" !!
it is their own insecurities and guilt or shame or whatever for bending to every farmaan of the amil and getting fleeced that makes them curse us. we have never sought any confrontation with such people yet they actively seek to engage us in disputes. this is a regular occurence. we hear about this from others who tell us that although we do not attend the markaz and are hardly ever seen there, there are people who keep track of such things and are eager to pick a fight with us or finger us if the opportunity arises.
building up a wall of defiance and daring (even a bit of humour) around yrself helps in deterring such people from even approaching you. this is my experience.
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
Good thread. Gave me a lot of clarity. Thanks to those who have reasoned things out clearly.
One thing I have learnt in life is that tigers move alone and don't need a rehnuma to guide them. It is the sheep who need the rehnuma to lead them (to their slaughter - the unspoken part).
One thing I have learnt in life is that tigers move alone and don't need a rehnuma to guide them. It is the sheep who need the rehnuma to lead them (to their slaughter - the unspoken part).
Re: Regarding Progressive bohras faith in Dawat
@gulf
(Quote) where in the world has NO CURRUPTION?
1. Are you justifying corruption?
2. Should those who claim the direct contact with Imam and his vicegerency, not have higher standards?
3. If corruption is acceptable and the Dai and his kothar are just human beings, why do claim a higher pedestal and unquestioning belief in themselves?
4. if you accept that there is corruption, then why don't you and your ilk accept the contention of the progressives that the Dai look after the spiritual matters only and let the community look after the material matters and open up all matters to make it transparent?
Does this make sense to you or did you make the quoted statement of yours in a moment of sanity (insanity according to the orthies)?
(Quote) where in the world has NO CURRUPTION?
1. Are you justifying corruption?
2. Should those who claim the direct contact with Imam and his vicegerency, not have higher standards?
3. If corruption is acceptable and the Dai and his kothar are just human beings, why do claim a higher pedestal and unquestioning belief in themselves?
4. if you accept that there is corruption, then why don't you and your ilk accept the contention of the progressives that the Dai look after the spiritual matters only and let the community look after the material matters and open up all matters to make it transparent?
Does this make sense to you or did you make the quoted statement of yours in a moment of sanity (insanity according to the orthies)?