Important Questions urgent help Out there!

[porus]

Ameer-ul-Momaneen Hazrat Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s. said


"I am the purpose of Salat itself...."


Khutbat-ul-Iftikhar (The Sermon of Glorification)

The sermons sounds completely out of character for Ali. I would reject it as unauthentic.

I think that this was perhaps the belief of some extremist Shia sub-sect, which were called the Ghulat by the Early Shia. I will say more about the Ghulat and the concept of al-raja'a. I do not believe that al-raja'a is accepted by Bohras although Ismailies may be be adhering to it. More on this later.

[profastian]

[profastian]

Yes we believe in the sermon.

Al-Hamdulillah ta3ala
do you all Also beleive it is Mola who will Judge us on the Qiyamat Day?and he is the nur of God?
do you beleive he is giver of life and Death?
Yes. Life and death are metaphorical here not literal. Infact, the whole sermon is metaphorical.

and is Every imam down to imam tayyib the Re-incarnation of the Spirit of Ali ibn Abu Talib?
because Twelver admit this about their aimaah

mola says in Hadith-i Tariq :

O Tariq, Imam (as) is the Kalama-t-Allāh [Word of God], Waj'ha-t-Allah [Face of God], Hijaba-t-Allah [Veil of God], Nūru-Allah [Light of God], Āya-t-Allah [Sign of God]

Do isma3iliyah agree with this View here?since Zaydiyah reject it.......[/quote]

[Al-Uqul]

Ameer-ul-Momaneen Hazrat Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s. said


"I am the purpose of Salat itself...."


Khutbat-ul-Iftikhar (The Sermon of Glorification)

The sermons sounds completely out of character for Ali. I would reject it as unauthentic.

I think that this was perhaps the belief of some extremist Shia sub-sect, which were called the Ghulat by the Early Shia. I will say more about the Ghulat and the concept of al-raja'a. I do not believe that al-raja'a is accepted by Bohras although Ismailies may be be adhering to it. More on this later.

the myth of ghulat and ghali is funny

the 12er mujtahids labled anyone who beleived in Ismah of ahl al bayt to be'' ghulat''that even al-majlisi a akhbari 12er(most modern twelvers are ''Usuli''i.e. folow the ''ayatollah''s)wrote against them for this

he criticized the ulama of Ghom ,he is btw the writer of the 120 volume bihar al-anwar hadith book of the shia ithna ashariyah

http://www.shiabooks.org/books/

i would read the priceless book ''kashaf al Aqaidón this webpage

u may download it on pdf format

wether al-rajaa is valid for sunni or not i not my question
but thanks for your input

a pakistani poet said:
Shaykh went to mecca for Hajj
peasant went to najaf for Ziyarat

the shaykh went to the Oyster
the peasant Found the PEARL
W.s

[Al-Uqul]

So what are the Intellects exactly?and why does allah say He created the heavens and earth in the koran?
I can't discuss what the intellects are on open forum and why allah says he created the heavens and earth in Koran(proggies wud have a field day with this,especially anajmi ).

PLZ Private Message me about it brother!!!!!!!

3.do bohra like beleive Mawla ali created the universe?
huuuh.....are the ''intellects''greater then Ali ibn Abu talib(SAAS)?
Yes, much greater. In fact, the 2 aren't really comparable. Saying that one is greater than the other is not quite right
pheeew subhannalah!i didnt know someone could be greater then mawla hayderi!!!
except muhammad and allah....im sorry but i find that an insult to mola haydary(sws)
4.do you all Beleive Isa(a.s)Died on the Cross?or died?or went into Satr?
muslims beleive isa was Raised to allah,went into Ghaybah-satr and Gospels such as the gospel of barnabas(http://www.barnabas.net)st.thomas and the 1000s of other gospels of early christianity claim and support the quranic point
But by Ghaybah-satr, do you mean is he still alive in human form or did he die eventually?
he is still alive and will return to assist mahdi with killing dajjal and sufyani
Do you Beleive in dajjal and sufyani???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
what about all the hadiths in sunni books about the 12 imams?and how the bible says 12 princes will come from nabi ismaails line and be given a kingdom?

5.when Qa3im al-qiyamah comes will He come with isa(a.s)?
so what about Dajjal and al-sufyani?is isa buried in quds according to you all???????doesnt isa have Any role in the end times?
Every prophet and Imam will have a role. Quran says that all people will be called by the names of their Imam on the day of judgement. Isa will vouch for the righteous people of his
age, so will the other prophets. That will be his role.

6.do bohra beleive in Al-Raja3a?
Yes.As in ahl al bayt will coem back to rule the wolrd? or are you understanding re-incarnation?
ahl al bayt will come back to rule the world. i.e. Qaim ul Qayama
and will the previouis imams also coem and Rule with him?
i hope not be a hinderence but this is life changing for me
w.S[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

[Al-Uqul]

what about the succession of ahmad bin al-mustansir to the Throne?

[profastian]

So what are the Intellects exactly?and why does allah say He created the heavens and earth in the koran?
I can't discuss what the intellects are on open forum and why allah says he created the heavens and earth in Koran(proggies wud have a field day with this,especially anajmi ).

PLZ Private Message me about it brother!!!!!!!
Sorry i am not permitted to discuss it with any one without Raza. Consult your local aamil

3.do bohra like beleive Mawla ali created the universe?
huuuh.....are the ''intellects''greater then Ali ibn Abu talib(SAAS)?
Yes, much greater. In fact, the 2 aren't really comparable. Saying that one is greater than the other is not quite right
pheeew subhannalah!i didnt know someone could be greater then mawla hayderi!!!
except muhammad and allah....im sorry but i find that an insult to mola haydary(sws)
Because you don't know the nature of the intellect.

4.do you all Beleive Isa(a.s)Died on the Cross?or died?or went into Satr?
muslims beleive isa was Raised to allah,went into Ghaybah-satr and Gospels such as the gospel of barnabas(http://www.barnabas.net)st.thomas and the 1000s of other gospels of early christianity claim and support the quranic point
But by Ghaybah-satr, do you mean is he still alive in human form or did he die eventually?
he is still alive and will return to assist mahdi with killing dajjal and sufyani
We don't believe Isa is alive not is Mahdi

Do you Beleive in dajjal and sufyani???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
what about all the hadiths in sunni books about the 12 imams?and how the bible says 12 princes will come from nabi ismaails line and be given a kingdom?
The Imams mentioned in the Hadith are the following. They have ruled Misr.
Imam Mahdi
Imam Qaim
Imam Mansoor
Imam Moiz
Imam Aziz
Imam Hakim
Imam Zahir
Imam Mustansir
Imam Mustaali
Imam Aamir
Imam Tayyeb


6.do bohra beleive in Al-Raja3a?
Yes.As in ahl al bayt will coem back to rule the wolrd? or are you understanding re-incarnation?
ahl al bayt will come back to rule the world. i.e. Qaim ul Qayama
and will the previouis imams also coem and Rule with him?
i hope not be a hinderence but this is life changing for me
Well every human will come including the Imam
w.S

[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

[porus]

Profastian and Al-Uqul,

Please learn to use 'quotes' properly. I find it difficult to follow your thinking as it is. I cannot easily say who said what and I will soon stop reading your posts if you do not use 'quotes' correctly.

[anajmi]

porus,

Do you need more evidence that these shias worship Hazrat Ali?

Al-Uqul,

I have said before, if you do not want people to participate, please go to a private forum.

I can't discuss what the intellects are on open forum and why allah says he created the heavens and earth in Koran(proggies wud have a field day with this,especially anajmi ).

And you would still bet your here and hereafter on these intellects?

ahl al bayt will come back to rule the world.

Is that because they were really successful the last time around or is it because they failed the last time around?

[porus]

wether al-rajaa is valid for sunni or not i not my question

Sunnis do not believe in Imamat and the concept of al-raja'a does not apply to them.

I believe that you should separate the speculative philosophies associated with Ismaili metaphysics from the actual historical events.

Ismaili Metaphysics, as elaborated by al-Sijistani and his successors, is a post hoc attempt to make sense of Islamic mythical history as it developed following sectarian conflicts amongst early Shia.

Despite what Bohras say, this Metaphysics did not exist at the time of Ali and I am certain that neither Prophet nor Ali, nor Imam Jafar al-Sadiq were aware of it or ever gave a hint about it. Quran's words and hadiths are used to serve the Metaphysics. While interesting, it is still a speculation, not 'Truth'

In connection with Ismaili Metaphysics, the saying 'post hoc ergo propter hoc' does not apply.

[porus]

porus,

Do you need more evidence that these shias worship Hazrat Ali?

You might as well conclude that Bohras consider Sayedna to be Allah because one abde said it in this board.

[profastian]

porus,

Do you need more evidence that these shias worship Hazrat Ali?

Al-Uqul,

I have said before, if you do not want people to participate, please go to a private forum.

I can't discuss what the intellects are on open forum and why allah says he created the heavens and earth in Koran(proggies wud have a field day with this,especially anajmi ).

And you would still bet your here and hereafter on these intellects?

ahl al bayt will come back to rule the world.

Is that because they were really successful the last time around or is it because they failed the last time around?

Think of the devil and the devil appears

[anajmi]

You might as well conclude that Bohras consider Sayedna to be Allah because one abde said it in this board.

Isn't that in line with post hocy pocy? And I have already said many times that the bohras worship the ahle-bayt. And to say that bohras worship the Syedna wouldn't be that big of an "unTruth". It definitely doesn't fall under "metaphysics".

[anajmi]

profastian,

My aim is to ask questions that cannot be answered. Questions that people cannot answer tell more about people than the ones they can actually answer.

[profastian]

profastian,

My aim is to ask questions that cannot be answered. Questions that people cannot answer tell more about people than the ones they can actually answer.

Ok, so you are conducting some sort of psycho analytical study

[anajmi]

Let us just stick to questions and answers.

[porus]

You might as well conclude that Bohras consider Sayedna to be Allah because one abde said it in this board.

Isn't that in line with post hocy pocy? And I have already said many times that the bohras worship the ahle-bayt. And to say that bohras worship the Syedna wouldn't be that big of an "unTruth". It definitely doesn't fall under "metaphysics".

Actually, I have said many times here that extremist abdes are Dai-worshippers. But that is not what Bohraism teaches.

[anajmi]

porus,

There are still a lot of things that bohraism teaches that Islam does not teach.

[porus]

porus,

There are still a lot of things that bohraism teaches that Islam does not teach.

That is blindingly obvious. Apart from Ismailies and Bohras, the rest of the Muslims do not teach Ismaili Metaphysics.

[anajmi]

I wasn't referring to metaphysics. Most people wouldn't understand this metaphysics even if taught. We have already seen the metaphysics to be nothing more than hocus pocus. No wonder that the rest of Muslims do not teach or learn it. Just the average stuff that is taught in sabaks and majlisis is also not Islamic teaching.

[Al-Uqul]

thats eleven.loo00ol


and only from al-muiz after did they rule misr


and imam hasan ruling would be twelve

but the hadith grammar implies connectedness.......

and ali was also a khilafa that would be 13

[Al-Uqul]

thats eleven.loo00ol


and only from al-muiz after did they rule misr


and imam hasan ruling would be twelve

but the hadith grammar implies connectedness.......

and ali was also a khilafa that would be 13

what ,but al-tayyib neevr ruled anything.lo00ol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



yeah go get the raza

mashaallah we all know why you wont explain

stupid excuse though

ali is higher then some imaginery intellects

so are they demi-gods?yes or no?

[Al-Uqul]

porus,

Do you need more evidence that these shias worship Hazrat Ali?

Al-Uqul,

I have said before, if you do not want people to participate, please go to a private forum.

I can't discuss what the intellects are on open forum and why allah says he created the heavens and earth in Koran(proggies wud have a field day with this,especially anajmi ).

And you would still bet your here and hereafter on these intellects?

ahl al bayt will come back to rule the world.

Is that because they were really successful the last time around or is it because they failed the last time around?

alahooma salli ala muhamadin wa aali muhaamd wa La3natallah a3la Adaaihim ajma3in min al Awwalina wa al akhireen

it is Because my Accountant ali ibn abi talib and his Successers Owns the universe and all in it belongs and wil Return to him and will bring order to His Creations when He deems fit

After the test period is over and als ideologies have failed wich are false

[anajmi]

More demostration of idol worshipping from shias. Allah calls himself the owner and creator of the universe and the idol worshipping shias have given that credit to Hazrat Ali.

[Al-Uqul]

More demostration of idol worshipping from shias. Allah calls himself the owner and creator of the universe and the idol worshipping shias have given that credit to Hazrat Ali.

ali is the mathhar of allahs asma al husna
he is a manifestation of his Attributes while Allah isnt ali

allah does everything he wills Thru mola ali

mola ali is the Veil between allah and Ba3d

this is the 12er metaphyscs u could say

the hadiths warn us not to try and doubt this or coprehend the Secret nature of mawla ali

this is like trying to comprehend the majesty of allah

wheras ali is above the low position people ascribe to him

so i accept him as my Lord (wali)and master(mawla) not my rabb or ilah as such people are kufaar

ANYWAY on topic again or get another forum

[anajmi]

More demonstration of Idol Worshipping and associating partners with Allah.

[Al-Uqul]

More demonstration of Idol Worshipping and associating partners with Allah.

When the angels fufill allahs orders this is also shirk huh?


yet mawla ali is lower then the angels!!!!!????

by allah the angels are subservient to my mola


okay we get ur interested only in destroying momin and light of momin with babling and no proof

thus ur ten yrs on this forum

liek a sitting duck well in china town!!!!!!!!

so leave this forum or answr the questions from bohra resources

stop diverging my post

[anajmi]

by allah the angels are subservient to my mola

More demostration of idol worshipping and associating partners with Allah. Pure shirk. Angels are subservient only to Allah.

[Al-Uqul]

by allah the angels are subservient to my mola

More demostration of idol worshipping and associating partners with Allah. Pure shirk. Angels are subservient only to Allah.

If loving and reconizng ali ibn abi talib and ahl al bayt the Way he deserves to be loved in the minimum(wich i still havent done )

is Shirk let the jinns and men Testify i am a Mushrik...........

now u can stop ur waiste of time and let soemone answer my posts

[anajmi]

You can love them as much as you want. But you are worshipping them and making them partners with Allah. You are committing shirk.