PROGGIES please stand up!

[anajmi]

Don't get upset mustafanalwalla. I was just making a generalised statement to the world at large and not pointing out your stupidity "boyo".

Bring it on.

Well, actually I did already bring it on "boyo", but I guess you missed it assuming that it was a generalised statement to the world at large.

[Al Zulfiqar]

You just cannot accept the fact that there are believers in Syedna out there who might be more intelligent....

....then i will say things that are unlike of me

let us analyse how intelligent the 'believers' of syedna like nalwala are..

- nalwala harasses innocent female co-workers because he is a "syedna believer 'man'" whose rampaging hormones make him lose self-control and his morals and ethics.
- now this "intelligent believer of syedna" is to be excused for his immorality, sexual hegemony and male chauvinism because it is 'natural' for a staunch believer of syedna to act in an immoral, loose and perverted manner when faced with temptation. it is acceptable and passe' for the course.
- but this "intelligent believer of syedna" gets caught out unfortunately, since his bosses are not "intelligent believers of syedna". he is about to lose his job and suffer public humiliation if sued for sexual harassment, discrimination and abuse of authority
- so now this "intelligent believer of syedna" has only one choice remaining. instead of apologising to the females and his bosses and accepting his perversions, he starts daydreaming at work and his strong orgasmic urges conjure up the syedna who asks him, "bol beta, teri marzi kya hai?"
- "intelligent believer of syedna" then sobs and tearfully blurts out his story through his sorry behind. lo and behold, syedna kun faykun solves all his problems and nalwala continues in his job, merrily harassing more females and starts posting the miracle on a progressive bohra site and becomes an even more "intelligent believer of syedna"..!!
- one curious side effect of exerting such strong urges for syedna and then recounting his immoral travails through his backside, results in nalwala, the "intelligent believer of syedna", permanently having to use toilet paper to clean his stinking posterior and stem the rot which has set in at both ends.
- in order to find a more acceptable solution for his stinking behind, nalwala, the "intelligent believer of syedna", now approaches the new miracle man, muffy the vampire slayer manhoos, who after performing a 3rd khatna on nalwala, the "intelligent believer of syedna" (the 2nd one was performed by syedna after the miracle narrated above), sprinkles rosewater on the "intelligent believer of syedna" - nalwala's - stinking behind to suppress the stench. nalwala the - "intelligent believer of syedna" - has confessed to this fact when he proudly declared on this forum that "mine smells of rosewater".
- progressives of course not being "intelligent believers of syedna", find it hard to accept such profound intelligence with IQ levels going through a rosewater smelling backside stuffed with toilet paper.

no wonder that nalwala, the "intelligent believer of syedna", blurts out filth and displays gutter language which is so like him when his patience is so severely tested!!!

[Al Zulfiqar]

I must ask you this az. Why you so obsessed with my sexual adventures and my arse?

1. because you are an "intelligent believer of syedna" and a superb case study what with your strong orgasmic urges for syedna followed by bouts of arsewiping with sand paper.
2. because YOU have declared to the whole world on this forum that "mine (your arse that is) smells like rosewater"

with these 2 things combined, you, sir, have the unique distinction on this forum of being the greatest idiot we have ever encountered. in fact, reform movement aside, you are one of the primary reasons that i and many others like me visit this forum. the sheer breathtaking stupidity and jaw-dropping idiocy of your replies and warped logic which you display here in wide angle cinemascope and often times in imax 3D, makes us come back for more mirth and side-splitting hilarity than all the past laurel and hardy, marx brothers, 3 stooges, harold lloyd, charlie chaplin, and p.g. wodehouse movies combined.

[ghulam muhammed]

[color=#0080001. simple life - The Nabi s including Sulaiman and Yusuf Nabi lived like Kings. So did the Fatimid Imams. So did the Fatimid Duaats. .[/color]

If living like a king was so very essential then why did Allah (swt) not make every Nabi a king ? The sabak trained adam is well groomed by kothari agents to twist and turn quranic ayats in order to justify the dai's illegitimate and extravagant lifestyle, the crux of the ayats are delibarately not explained !! The fact of the matter is that Allah (swt) purposely made an exception in these cases in order to show to the people that inspite of enormous wealth and power, His TRUE servants would never go astray and would never give importance to wealth over piety and akhlaq, a quality which is thoroughly lacking in the dai. The Nabis never exploited their followers in the name of religion inspite of absolute power and wealth, they were always sincere to their cause. Allah (swt) wanted to show that wealth can never be a hurdle in His worship if the worshipper is honest and devoted to Him.

With regard to fatimid Imams, they were rulers as they ruled certain provinces. Which province does the dai rule ? Hence they lived in palaces by virtue of being rulers and not by virtue of being Imams !!

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 2 Surah Baqarah verse 77-79:Do they really not know that Allah is fully aware of what they hide and what they disclose? Then there are among them some ignorant people who have no knowledge of the Book, but depend upon empty hopes and are guided by mere conjecture and guess-work. So woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say to the people, ‘This is from Allah’, so that they might gain some paltry worldly gain! This writing of their hands will bring woe to them, and what they gain from it will lead them to their ruin.

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 2 Surah Al-Baqarah verse 174:Indeed those, who conceal the commands that Allah has sent down in His Book and barter them away for paltry worldly gains, fill their bellies with fire. Allah will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He regard them as pure and there is a painful torment for them!

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 6 Surah Anam verse 94:(And Allah will say), “So, you have come before Us all alone, as We created you at first. Now, you have left behind all that We gave you in the world. Now We do not see with you those ‘shufa’a’(intercessors), who, you believed, had a share in moulding your destinies! All the relations between you and them have been cut off, and all those, in whom you trusted, have left you in the lurch.”

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 33 Surah Ahzab verse 66-68:On the Day their faces are rolled about on the Fire, they will say, “Would that we had obeyed Allah and His Messenger!” And they will say, “O our Lord, we obeyed our CHIEFS and our GREAT MEN, and they led us astray from the Right Path. O our Lord, give them a double chastisment and curse them severely”.

[asad]

[color=#0080001. simple life - The Nabi s including Sulaiman and Yusuf Nabi lived like Kings. So did the Fatimid Imams. So did the Fatimid Duaats. .[/color]

from Childhood we have heard that
1-Moula Ali used to plough 1000 acres of land and will use the money for offering food the everyone.
2-numerous stories are told where Ali was in the field doing hard labor
3-Hassan husain used to serve food themselves to all and sundry in Ramadan
4-When Ali came to khilafat he distributed whole bait al maal to each and every one not sparing or doing favor to any one
5-Ali Zain al Abedeen(as) used to distribute food himself carrying it to more then 100 houses.

So how is kothar emulating these noble souls or they are just good for story telling and moreover Sulaiman had more than 1000 wives/concubines so do we expect the same from clergy or Kothar takes from prophets and imams what it likes and leave the hard part for Abdes to emulate

[ghulam muhammed]

Bro asad,

It is now well documented that the dai uses religion for the sole purpose of amassing illgotten wealth and the ayats and living examples of great souls are used only for twisting the same and fooling his gullible abdes. When it comes to the extravagant lifestyle of dai, the focus is immediately shifted to previous imams and the life of Mola Ali (a.s.) is quietly forgotten and becomes insignificant. When it comes to sacrifice and human values as exhibited by Imam Hussain (a.s.), the focus is conveniently shifted to "sympathy" followed by incessant matam. When it comes to his corrupt and evil zadas and other functionaries, the focus is shifted to the 3 khalifas in order to justify the evils.

I have always maintained that the dai and his parasite family are great psychologists with evil designs who know the tricks of trade. Just imagine what would happen to a country like India had these clever manipulators been at its helm !!

[Adam]

Why aren't any of the True Proggies saying anything. All we hear are the annoying noise of Dawoodi Bohra haters.

[Al Zulfiqar]

Why aren't any of the True Proggies saying anything. All we hear are the annoying noise of Dawoodi Bohra haters.

adam, first agree that you are a DABR, i.e. a dawoodi abdebohra regressive, then we progressives will respond, otherwise there is no point in debating anything with you on this forum.

[humanbeing]

Hey Guys

On a lighter note : What can be the opposite thread name to this one :

"PROGGIES please stand up!" Vs "ABDES please bend down!"

[profastian]

Hey Guys

On a lighter note : What can be the opposite thread name to this one :

"PROGGIES please stand up!" Vs "ABDES please bend down!"

Someone is finally showing his true colors

[humanbeing]

^^ Uff Uff Mirchi,.. !!

[Al Zulfiqar]

this is what i had said in my reply a few weeks ago, on the 8th of february to be exact. please refer to page 1 of this thread.

my reply to adam's directive " PROGGIES PLEASE STAND UP" is this:

"REGRESSIVES PLEASE BEND DOWN" (in sajda of course)

[Adam]

We have no problem in bending down. Islam teaches us "submission".
We also "stand up" in pride.
I don't see the "Opposition" or Proggies doing either.
But you're too ashamed to do it. Aren't you?

[profastian]

We have no problem in bending down. Islam teaches us "submission".
We also "stand up" in pride.
I don't see the "Opposition" or Proggies doing either.
But you're too ashamed to do it. Aren't you?

And everyone knows who was the first one to be ashamed of doing it.

[revertbohra]

^^ Uff Uff Mirchi,.. !!

KID JUST GIVE YOUR SELF FEW YEARS MORE,I AM SURE U WILL REALIZE TRUTH ABOUT THIS PROGRESSIVES.

[Al Zulfiqar]

We have no problem in bending down. Islam teaches us "submission".

adam, you contradict yrself. islam teaches 'submission' and sajda, but only to ALLAH. that is clearly stated in the quran. in fact the slightest disobedience to that basic belief and foundation of islam is termed shirk and the perpetrator is defined as a kafir.

but you DABR's do sajda to dai. are you saying that DAI IS ALLAH?

i know you will bring in circuitous crap and refuse to answer straight to the point by asking: what is your belief position, who are your sources, who is your leader etc etc ad nauseum. let me pre-empt you, that is not an answer because you have no answer, no justification for your shirk and kufr.

[humanbeing]

Hi Adam

I posted that line in a lighter spirit, however I will also share a serious POV. What do you mean by

We also "stand up" in pride.

When has a commoner bohra mumin stood in pride ? We are always asked to remain bowed down in front of these elites. Pictures are posted all over websites where we see one and sundry bending, bowing in front of shehzadas, amils and even to kids. Where is the pride ?

If your argument is ‘bowing in respect’ then it’s non acceptable. Bowing once in greeting is fine. But to remain bowed through the conversation is subtle message to remain in submission and below grade which is a subconscious dominance by so called priestly class.

And yes I m ashamed of bending, bowing, knee kissing, foot kissing in guilt and inferiority. I take pride in being gifted by Allah to be born as a thinking human being. I respect my elders, I respect people with knowledge, achievement. But respecting does not mean to degrade my self. Respect is earned not commanded. I kiss my father’s knees, I kiss my mother’s feet, I bow in Submission to Allah, I bow to greet my elders, I bow in respect.

[Adam]

@Al Zulfiqar
Sajda, has been discussed before. We accept it as the Quran allowed it to ADAM and YUSUF AS who were both Humans. Please answer on that thread.

About the "pride". We a proud in proclaiming our selves Dawoodi Bohras. However YOU, especially Al Zulfiqar, haven't once (As far as I can remember) showed how proud you are about what you stand for and whom you stand for.
Either shows a coward, or someone who has nothing to be proud of.

[ANA BOHRI]

Bro Adam

Due respect to your discussion with other fellow member I would kindly request you to stop calling COWARD and stuff like that.It will not serve any purpose.Lets be matured enough and talk sense and discuss in more civilized manner.

Thanks

[humanbeing]

Its ironical when Adam is calling others coward. What is so brave in submitting meekly to oppressive Kothari rules or actions. Inspite of he repeatedly asking others for their belief and members have responded to him as per their preference. Adam still keeps asking same questions. It’s a mundane trick used in sabaks to avoid answering controversial tricky questions.

[revertbohra]

We have no problem in bending down. Islam teaches us "submission".

adam, you contradict yrself. islam teaches 'submission' and sajda, but only to ALLAH. that is clearly stated in the quran. in fact the slightest disobedience to that basic belief and foundation of islam is termed shirk and the perpetrator is defined as a kafir.

but you DABR's do sajda to dai. are you saying that DAI IS ALLAH?

i know you will bring in circuitous crap and refuse to answer straight to the point by asking: what is your belief position, who are your sources, who is your leader etc etc ad nauseum. let me pre-empt you, that is not an answer because you have no answer, no justification for your shirk and kufr.

one very straight question
what is a benefit of bohras to do shirk?
and
why did Allah asked angels to prostrate to ADAM?

[revertbohra]

We have no problem in bending down. Islam teaches us "submission".

adam, you contradict yrself. islam teaches 'submission' and sajda, but only to ALLAH. that is clearly stated in the quran. in fact the slightest disobedience to that basic belief and foundation of islam is termed shirk and the perpetrator is defined as a kafir.

but you DABR's do sajda to dai. are you saying that DAI IS ALLAH?

i know you will bring in circuitous crap and refuse to answer straight to the point by asking: what is your belief position, who are your sources, who is your leader etc etc ad nauseum. let me pre-empt you, that is not an answer because you have no answer, no justification for your shirk and kufr.

Allah has repeatedly talk about Adam incident in quraan and how shaitaan rejected to prostrate to ADAM it is 100% sure that Allah is giving some hint

[Adam]

Bro Adam

Due respect to your discussion with other fellow member I would kindly request you to stop calling COWARD and stuff like that.It will not serve any purpose.Lets be matured enough and talk sense and discuss in more civilized manner.

Thanks

Well said ANA.
I accept my mistake.

But my question remains. What does Al Zulfiqar stand for. Belief (others have made their stance pretty clear eg anajmi (Wahabi/Sunni), Porus (Panjatani) ) It just makes it a bit easier.
He's acting to be a Bohra and yet hates every bit of it. Doesn't that seem a bit weird?

[anajmi]

Allah has repeatedly talk about Adam incident in quraan and how shaitaan rejected to prostrate to ADAM it is 100% sure that Allah is giving some hint

Your Dai is not Adam and you are not shaitaan.

[Muslim First]

But my question remains. What does Al Zulfiqar stand for. Belief (others have made their stance pretty clear eg anajmi (Wahabi/Sunni), Porus (Panjatani) ) It just makes it a bit easier.
He's acting to be a Bohra and yet hates every bit of it. Doesn't that seem a bit weird?

Adam Bhai Saheb

What was Hazart Ali RA a plain Muslim, Sunni Muslim, Imami Muslim, Ismaili Muslm, Nizari or Mustali Muslim, or Dawoodi Bohra Muslim?

[Al Zulfiqar]

@Al Zulfiqar
Sajda, has been discussed before. We accept it as the Quran allowed it to ADAM and YUSUF AS who were both Humans. Please answer on that thread.
However YOU, especially Al Zulfiqar, haven't once (As far as I can remember) showed how proud you are about what you stand for and whom you stand for.
Either shows a coward, or someone who has nothing to be proud of.

adam, you are now twisting words and shooting blindly in the darkness to justify your kufr. the quran in itself does not "allow" sajdas to anyone, but what it does mention categorically is that sajda is forbidden to anyone except allah. the quran is a book containing the words of allah transmitted through muhammad. the quran is a document and in itself it does not have authority to allow or disallow. it is allah who commanded every word in it, and it was allah who ordered sajdas to adam and yusuf.

are you saying on the basis of those 2 exceptions, that allah has ordered sajda to dai??? did allah order sajda to muhammad, to ali, to hassan, hussain or any imam? provide a straight reply, my affiliations and pride or bravery/cowardice etc in being a dawoodi bohra has nothing to do with it. will you give the same reply to a sunni muslim or any other person who does not follow your perverted and mutated beliefs and logic? your bringing in my pride or lack of it in being/not being a dawoodi abde bohra regressive has nothing to do with my questions.

in fact your attempt to wiggle out of giving an honest and straight reply is a bigger sign and admittance of cowardice. only a coward makes personal attacks and indulges in abuse when he has run out of logical arguments and has no leg to stand on.