Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Re humsafar saying: "forgive the trespasses of us ordinary mortals"

Sorry, that's not for me to do. You may be right that I "pity" such bitterness in you....it's not something I wish on ANYONE. But if you need to lash out at me for saying so, well you were the one who brought up the subject of "finding catharsis" - lots of luck!

Again, you blind me with your brilliance. But this time I refuse to give my tat for your tit.

isnt it alll very confusing .?????????????
are momineen left in confusioon???

is this all suposed to be islam ??
CAN IT BE ??
ISLAM WAS ONE SIMPLE DEEN
ITS THE SAME 1 TODAY
& WILL REMAIN LIKE THAT TOMOROW

the islam the resool preached practised and taought to his pupil the sahaba
whys it hard to follow it
AND KIK ALL PERSONALITIES AWAY
and keep ALLAH & his PROPHET SAW only ????

Dear All

The question still remains for the followers of the Immamete logic. Who is correct, the Bohra's, the 12 ers or the Agha Khanis.

Each sect has a different Imam and I know for sure that Bohra's at least conside the other two sects as wrong.

So where does all this confusion lead to. I again ask, why are there no clear cut instructions in the Quran,like prayers, fasting etc, about the Imamate and not some vague references. The Shiah's belive that the Quran has been tampered with and certain Sura's were removed. So why did Hazrat Ali, when he became the Caliph not reinstate them.

Regards

ASAK
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The Shiah's belive that the Quran has been tampered with and certain Sura's were removed. So why did Hazrat Ali, when he became the Caliph not reinstate them.
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From where did you get all this..
Shias believe very much in the same Quran and no authority holding person has ever said it has been tampered with.

The diff opinion about imams among shias are very much similar to the diff of various laws among the four sunni madhabs (Hanafi, shafai, Maliki, Hambali.

was salaam

Dear Br. Ali

Are you a 12 er. I have read about the tempering on the internet and will find you the site.

Regards

Dear Ali

Also, I don't think you can just brush away the significant differences in the Shia Imam believers by a casual refernce to the 4 Sunni Imams. These 4 Imams have some very minor differences and neither of them claims superiority over others.Also no one says that the other will rot in hell as the various Shia sects believe about each other.

It is no secret that the 12 ers consider the Dawoodi Bohra's as a deviant shiah group. The Dawwodi Bohra's are like wise very anti 12ers to the extent that they don't even allow their women to wear black clothes in Moharram. There are a number of significant differnces in beliefs i.e the very Imam is the basis of differnce. The Dawwodi Bohra believe that the Dai is the Imam representative. Tell that to a 12er and he will just laugh.

So please do not compare the 4 madhabs of the Suniis to the Shia sects. The Dawwodi Bohra's Dai also promises jannah to its followers ONLY.

Regarding the Agha Khani, the less said the better. this is because I have no first hand information on this sect.

Regards

Salaams Br. Khan,

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Are you a 12 er. I have read about the tempering on the internet and will find you the site.
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Reading somewhere about tempering and you guessed to be right..
Instead you should have asked any learned person or should have visited some official site to find out the truth..

Ask Shia of any denomination on this board or just read previous posts on the topic to find out yourself.

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Also, I don't think you can just brush away the significant differences in the Shia Imam believers by a casual refernce to the 4 Sunni Imams. These 4 Imams have some very minor differences and neither of them claims superiority over others.Also no one says that the other will rot in hell as the various Shia sects believe about each other.

It is no secret that the 12 ers consider the Dawoodi Bohra's as a deviant shiah group. The Dawwodi Bohra's are like wise very anti 12ers to the extent that they don't even allow their women to wear black clothes in Moharram. There are a number of significant differnces in beliefs i.e the very Imam is the basis of differnce. The Dawwodi Bohra believe that the Dai is the Imam representative. Tell that to a 12er and he will just laugh.
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It is a common human tendency to think and say that they are on the right path..
The Quran & Prophet spoke of one single ummah still these two factors are common for all the muslims, a reason strong enough to be united and do not get carried away by the petty differences.

An interesting article by Shaik Ahmad Deedat on the subject is available at :

http://www.inminds.co.uk/unity.html

was salaam

Dear Ali

Check out the following

I have also heard by a shia collegue that their is a surat in their book which is not in the QURAN. can u confirm this? the surat in qs is called SURAT AL-WILAYAT.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

With regard to Soorat al-Wilaayah, some of the Shi’ah scholars and imams have stated that it exists. Any of them who denies that does so by way of taqiyah (dissimulation). One of those who clearly stated that it exists is Mirza Hussein Muhammad Taqiy al-Noori al-Tubrusi (d. 1320 AH). He wrote a book in which he claimed that the Qur’aan had been distorted and that the Sahaabah has concealed some parts of it, including Soorat al-Wilaayah. The Raafidis honoured him after his death by burying him in al-Najaf. This book by al-Tubrusi was published in Iran in 1298 AH, and when it was published there was a great deal of controversy because they wanted the doubts about the validity of the Qur’aan, which were known only to their leaders, to remain scattered throughout hundreds of their major books, and they did not want that to be compiled in one book. At the beginning of his book he said:

“This is a good and noble book entitled Fasl al-khitaab fi ithbaat tahreef Kitaab Rabb il-Arbaab (Decisive comment on the distortion of the Book of the Lord of Lords)… He mentioned aayahs and soorahs which he claims that the Sahaabah concealed, including ‘Soorat al-Wilaayah,’” the text of which, according to them, and as quoted in this book, is:

“O you who believe, believe in the Prophet and the Wali [i.e., ‘Ali] whom We have sent to guide you to the straight path, a Prophet and a Wali who are part of one another, and I am the All-Knowing, All-Aware…”

And they have another soorah which they call Soorat al-Noorayn: “O you who believe, believe in the two lights (al-noorayn) which We have sent down to you to recite to you My Verses and to warn you of the punishment of a great Day. They are part of one another and I am the All-Hearing, All-Knowing. Those who fulfil the covenant with Allaah and His Messenger mentioned in the verses (of the Qur’aan), the Gardens of delight will be theirs, but those who disbelieve after they believed by breaking their covenant and disobeying the command of the Prophet, they will be thrown into Hell. They have wronged themselves and gone against the wasiyyah of the Prophet (i.e., the appointment of ‘Ali as khaleefah), and they will be given to drink of boiling water…” and other such nonsense.

You can see the entire soorah, along with a telegraphic picture of the Persian mus-haf at the following site:

http://arabic.islamicweb.com/shia/nurain.htm

Prof. Muhammad ‘Ali Sa’oodi – who was one of the greatest experts of the Ministry of Justice in Egypt – examined an Iranian mus-haf kept by the Orientalist Bryan and he obtained a copy of this soorah; above the lines of Arabic script there is written the translation in the Iranian language.

As it was mentioned by al-Tubrusi in his book, Fasl al-khitaab fi ithbaat tahreef Kitaab Rabb il-Arbaab, it is also mentioned in their book Dabastan Madhaahib, which is in Farsi, written by Muhsin Faani al-Kashmiri. This book has been printed numerous times in Iran, and this false soorah was quoted from it by the Orientalist Noeldeke in his book The History of Qur’anic Manuscripts, 2/120, and was published by the French Asian newspaper in 1842 (p. 431-439).

It was also mentioned by Mirza Habibullaah al-Haashimi al-Kho’i in his book Manhaaj al-Baraa’ah fi Sharh Nahj al-Balaaghah (2/217); and by Muhammad Baaqir al-Majlisi in his book Tadhkirat al-A’immah (p. 19, 20) in Farsi, (published by) Manshoorat Mawlana, Iran.

See also al-Khutoot al-‘Areedah li’l-Asas allati qaama ‘alayha deen al-Shi’ah by Muhibb al-Deen al-Khateeb.

This claim of theirs is a denial of the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur’aan) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)”

[al-Hijr 15:9]

Hence the Muslims are unanimously agreed that anyone who claims that anything in the Qur’aan has been altered or changed is a kaafir.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said:

The same applies to those among them who claim that some verses of the Qur’aan have been taken away or concealed, or who claim to have some esoteric interpretations that exempt him from having to do the actions prescribed in sharee’ah etc., who are called al-Qaraamitah and al-Baatiniyyah, and who include al-Tanaasukhiyyah [names of esoteric sects]. There is no dispute that they are kaafirs.

Al-Saarim al-Maslool, 3/1108-1110.

Ibn Hazm said:

The view that the Qur’aan has been altered is blatant kufr and is a rejection of what the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said.

Al-Fasl fi’l-Ahwa’ wa’-Milal wa’l-Nihal, 4/139.

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)

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©

Dear Khan,

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I have also heard by a shia collegue that their is a surat in their book which is not in the QURAN. can u confirm this? the surat in qs is called SURAT AL-WILAYAT

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History is full of people across all the denomination of Muslims who have spoken many things based on their understanding and opinions.

Things can be generalized based on these people, and i suggest you talk to some learned ones and also visit any site to get your facts cleared..

was salaam

Alislam

Br Khan,

Please go through the foll.link to get an understading of many of the misconceptions among shia/sunni.

http://www.ezsoftech.com/akram/shiasunniunity.asp

Had we been fighting or been divided if we would accept that Quran has to be treated a book of reference. It is not absolute but relative. Somethings are there, some not.

Shias, Sunnis, Bohras, Christians, Jews, Hindus .... why are we going towards Division, we should be going towards Unity. Rather than finding differences, lets be optimists and find commanalities, things that unite.

Today Europe is showing Unity. They have practically done away with geographical boundaries. They are going towards Economic Unity. Tomorow their political systems will be merged and soon a United Europe will come up. they have made religion a non-issue. Whatever good any religion has, with their own knowledge and experience, have been made Laws which are subject to review and change.

Geographical, political and religious boundaries are barriers to human development. Sooner human beings realize this, sooner they will attain Paradise on earth.

salamun alaikum..

Rather than finding differences, lets be optimists and find commanalities, things that unite

I agree with this..It is not only a good thought but need of the day...What could have been a better day than the birth anniversry of prophet(pbuh).
--here below is a message to share with u all---

Once again the birth of the Glorious Prophet of Islam, Muhammad ibn Abdullah(S) is upon us, on this occasion, it is useful for all people, Muslims and non-Muslims to ponder upon the life of the Prophet(S), and to attempt to learn from what he taught, for without a doubt, Allah sent Muhammad(S) as a Mercy for Humanity, and not just for the Muslims.

From the life of the Prophet Muhammad(S), we can learn the sublime lessons of Islamic Ethics, Manners, Moral Traits and we can see the best example for humanity to emulate on it's quest for Perfection.

On this occasion, the Muslims must attempt to learn and put into practice a very important message, that was expounded by the Prophet Muhammad(S), and refreshed by the late Leader of the Muslim Ummah, Imam al-Khumayni(A). That is the message of Unity.

In Quran, Allah, the Mighty, the Wise clearly states:

And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah's favour on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided.(Quran, Surah Aal-i-Imraan, Verse 103)

Allah is clearly telling the Muslims to rise above sectarian, nationalistic and racial divisions that plague the Muslim Ummah, and lead it towards it's own self destruction. The reason why these divisions are dangerous, is expounded in the Quran, in the story of Satan, and how he was cast from Heaven and how he became amongst those who are arrogant and sectarian. Once again in Quran, Allah says:

And when We said to the angels: Make obeisance to Adam; they made obeisance, but Iblis (did it not). He said: Shall I make obeisance to him whom Thou hast created of dust?(Quran, Surah al-Israa, Verse 61)

We can see clearly that Iblis (who later became known as Satan) was arrogant and also the pioneer of racism and division, where as Allah, has told us our situation, and how we as Humanity should be:

O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).(Quran, Surah al-Hujuraat, Verse 13)

Allah has clearly stated that humanity has been created from a single male and a single female, and that we have been made into various nations and tribes, however the most important thing, is that these nations and tribes should not be guages for what a person is like, for verily the only guage is that of righteousness and love of Allah.

To make divisions between Muslims, is to follow the line of Satan, and to consider those different to you as inferior as Satan did with Adam, and Allah has clearly warned humanity against following the line of Satan:

Did I not charge you, O children of Adam ! that you should not serve the Shaitan? Surely he is your open enemy, And that you should serve Me; this is the right way. And certainly he led astray numerous people from among you. What! could you not then understand?(Quran, Surah Yaseen, Verses 60-62)

We, as humanity, must learn to respect the divine commandments, however, it should not be at the cost of Justice, and what is being suggested is not a simple and flowery - "we love everyone" - kind of attitude, since this is also an incorrect manner to conduct onesself.

The core for humanity and Muslims in particular, is to follow the middle way, the way between two extremes, and to establish Justice and Truth.

Finally, in Quran, in Surah al-Asr, Allah clearly states the criteria for success as follows:

By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),
Verily Humanity is in loss,Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy."(Quran, Surah al-Asr, Verses 1-3)

It is extremely important for Muslims to understand this message of Unity and Truth, that Islam has given, for without a doubt, it is with the Unity of Humanity against those who seek to drag humanity to the level of the Animals, and against those who seek to oppress and destroy the human condition, that humanity will arise revived and with new found strength, that it may establish Justice and Equity upon this temporal existance.