The True Imam - How would you verify?

[progticide]

Pot calling the Kettle Black !!

Whether I'm a Pot, a stirrer or the fiery stove itself is a seperate issue. But atleast you accepted that you are the Black kettle.

[progticide]

"Andhhon mein Kaanaa Raja".

Its better to have a "Kaanaa" Raja on a public forum then having a "Laachaar" and "Be-Bas' Raja in a community.

What you describe as Laachaari and Bebasi is your POV. And you may please have plenty more such worthless & pointless POVs, as if I care.

But atleast now you have accepted that Mubarak a.k.a. Doctor a.k.a Badrijanab is your "Kaanaa" Raja and all you misguided, mischief-mongereing, jealous and shameless reformists are his "Andhaa" (Blind) followers.

[progticide]

simple. keep a sharp eye on the imamuzzaman's bank account. that is where all the millions of cheques and cash najwas collected in his name have been deposited by syedna since last 70-80 years.
the moment you see and hear of an attempt by the hidden imam to gain access to the funds which are rightfully his, lo and behold..., you have got your man, the true imam!! who else besides him can sign in without verifiable credentials?

Kindly mention the Nizari ismaili website from which you have now sourced this theory for verifying the True Imam.

Like your "kaanaa Raja" Mubarak a.k.a Doctor a.k.a Badrijanab, I am sure you also consider this source from where you have published this theory to be authentic.

I suggest Admin set up a seperate link where these "Andhaa" followers alongwith their "Kaanaa Raja" can mention the links of the authentic sources from where they get these wonderful and awe-inspiring theories for the verification of the True Imam

[MM Bukhari]

The True Imam - How would you verify?


actually we wont need any one to introduced us to true IMAM, Imam will be proven by his own means.

[Al Zulfiqar]

Kindly mention the Nizari ismaili website from which you have now sourced this theory for verifying the True Imam.

pesticide your arrogance is amazing. you seem to assume that only your mafia masters in saifee mahal have all the scriptures and knowledge on shias and esp our branch of ismaili mustaali deen?

the theory i have expounded is not from any website, nor from nizari ismailis. it was mentioned in the papers written by sheikh ayman al rizzali who lived during the time of the 25th dai syedna jalal shamsuddin, who was the 1st dai who died in india and is buried in ahmedabad. the work is known as 'risalatul rizzali' and was sanctioned and approved by the dai of the time. these and many other rare manuscripts are held by several bohra trusts in yemen and india, who saved them from the dirty clutches of syedna taher saifuddin and his marauding hordes. they were persuaded, cajoled, even threatened and finally excommunicated for not handing over these documents to the kothar. for obvious reasons i will not name this particular individual and trust from whom my late father acquired a copy of these risalas.

so now chew this and stuff it under your restless pillow.

[Al Zulfiqar]

i forgot to mention that sheikh rizzali was well-known for his powers of prediction, much like nostradamus. his parameters for verifying the true imam included his visions for a future which would include modern banking as we know it today and the imam's easy familiarity with its technology.

you can guage sheikh rizzali's prowess from this one simple mind boggling fact, he named his son muffadal after the 53rd dai and today's manhoos, who as rizzali has predicted will be the greatest dai who has ever lived, the only dai who will have the ability to converse with the dead in their graves and convey messages from those in jannah.

su eni niraali shaan chhe.

[Al Zulfiqar]

where are you pesticide? kem bhai, hawa nikli gayi?

still searching for the risalas? need my help?

[progticide]

where are you pesticide? kem bhai, hawa nikli gayi?

still searching for the risalas? need my help?

Munafiq,
Do a little favour to your pathetic soul... Read all the 26 pages of this thread and all the responses and arguments and counter-arguments.....read carefully what your reformists masters and brethren have written and what quality of argument they have come up with.....then you will start feeling something coming out of your backside....that would be termed as "hawa nikal gayi".

And unless you have something sensible and thought-worthy to write (which surely is impossible for a moron like you), please spare this thread.

[mnoorani]

Farishta ni zabaan ,farishta jaane
Aadmi ni bhaasha aadmi
Ajeeb waat hawe aavi
Saanp ni boli kaune jaane ?

[Al Zulfiqar]

pesticide,

you are so true to form and so predictable, that you have now become reduced to a mere caricature. i have encountered hundreds of so-called educated abdes like you who mouth pseudo intellectual and highly doubtful 'ilm', but when cornered with no leg to stand on, they resort to exactly what you just did. curse, abuse and go on personal attacks and start ranting and raving,

is this what your highly flouted sabaks teach you? superficial politeness and feigned diplomacy as long as someone swallows your crap, but mean and vile language and behaviour when countered?

once again, need help finding the risalas?

[progticide]

once again, need help finding the risalas?

Munafiq,
You need the risalas because you are in search of the truth that is eluding you because you are blinded by arrogance and therefore cant see the true path which is there right in front of you. You are lost because of your arrogance and think that these Risalas will open up the gates of heaven for you, but no matter what risalas you read, you will remain lost and wandering in dark until you accept the guidance of the true guide of the time, i.e. the Dai-e-mutlaq of the DBs.

I dont need your help for anything because I am already on the true path of Islam.

A useless, lost, misguided soul like you cannot help himself find the true path, what help will it offer others?

[mnoorani]

once again, need help finding the risalas?

Munafiq,
You need the risalas because you are in search of the truth that is eluding you because you are blinded by arrogance and therefore cant see the true path which is there right in front of you. You are lost because of your arrogance and think that these Risalas will open up the gates of heaven for you, but no matter what risalas you read, you will remain lost and wandering in dark until you accept the guidance of the true guide of the time, i.e. the Dai-e-mutlaq of the DBs.

I dont need your help for anything because I am already on the true path of Islam.

A useless, lost, misguided soul like you cannot help himself find the true path, what help will it offer others?

You FOOL ! You accuse others of being arrogant.
Just see how the zaadaas behave! These zaadas are arrogant when sober. I wonde how they behave when intoxicated or when frolicking with Bollywood film actresses.
The Holy Mansoos Heads the arrogancy brigade. He did not even bother to offer condolences at the Karachi Tragedy, instead he chose to attend and feast on ziayafats in Sri Lanka. Imagine the carats of Rubies he must have demanded !

[zinger]

mnoorani,

yeh baat, mein apne liye hi kar raha hoon, not on behalf of the community.

Yes, i agree bahut na-insaafi, bahut galat bhi hain in our community, but talk about the now. dont talk about things that happened 15-20 years ago.

why has the kothar not condemned or the incident you ask? kya ek simple saa sawal hain iska? maybe and maybe not.

meri rai mein, it is possible that the kothar has decided to keep a low profile on this. an attack was made on us, unsuccesfully a month ago, and unfotunately, successful now.

do you know for a fact that our Maula or his representatives have not reached out to the victims family? its possible that they have but this has not bene publicised. maybe its not on the sites because of people like GM bhai and you too, who are card carrying members who gleefully log on to the Bohra site and report all there is to know, on an open forum.

in that way, progticide bhai is right in claiming that kahin toh, you are responsible for this aafat on us, indirectly, and unknowingly, for sure, but who knows...

meri koi dushmani nahin hain aapse, i beleive that 50 years ago, we lived as brothers and we should today too.

i agree that you are fightig for a right cause. a lot of devout abdes like us are getting frustrated, but aapki techniques bilkul galat hain.

on one hand, we have a creature like al zulfiqar who preaches to you to mind your language but who is so full of garbage himself. on the other hand we have people like asgar ali engineer and s. insaf, who will always fight, but fight with descency and dignity.

ek kahawat hain, dushmani karo toh bhi aisi, ke jab dost ban jaye to sharam na aaye... or something like that, but im sure you get my drift.

[Bohra spring]

mnoorani,

yeh baat, mein apne liye hi kar raha hoon, not on behalf of the community.


in that way, progticide bhai is right in claiming that kahin toh, you are responsible for this aafat on us, indirectly, and unknowingly, for sure, but who knows...

meri koi dushmani nahin hain aapse, i beleive that 50 years ago, we lived as brothers and we should today too.

i agree that you are fightig for a right cause. a lot of devout abdes like us are getting frustrated, but aapki techniques bilkul galat hain.
.

Zinger bhai you state that we are fighting for the right cause but the means are false. What do you think is the correct way? Please educate us , we have no reason to make the fight ugly.

What is the approach you want us to take? Pick an example from the issues we have mentione on this site any issue and show how you would want PDB to resolve it.

[zinger]

Spring bhai, simple. Dont antagonise us.

The more you abuse our Dai and our customs and our beliefs, the further you push us away.

there are some really foul-mouthed individuals, on both sides no doubt, but reformist side pe kucch zyaada hi hain. and jis tarah se aap baat karte ho, believe me it hurts us to the core.

again, yeh mein apne side se hi keh raha hu, progticide, adam and profastian may disagree with me, but yes, a lot of us dawoodi bohras believe that there is a lot of wrong going on. even our elders, who until some years are were hard core, are now grumbling in private. so, yes, dissent is brewing.

aapke tareeke galat hain in the sense that you bitch, abuse, mock, taunt, ridicule and degrade us to such an extent that we feel that as bad as things might be in our community, aap logon se toh hum laakh gunaah acche hain. atleast we dont have so much negativity in us.

the problem is that while we are channeling our negativity, i will not tell you how and where, obviously, in positive ways, you are doing it in such a negative way that it puts us completely off, from, forget sympathesing with you, too even giving a damn to what you have to say.

yeh mere aur sirf mere hi aur mere saathiyon ke vichaar hain. i do not speak for the rest of my dawoodi bohra brothers and sister, just a few like-minded of us.

[zinger]

GM, Insaf, HussainKSA etc have always fought with dignity and decorum.

others believe in fighting for the sake of it, hitting below the belt, make personal attacks and disgusting personal comments when they run out of ammo. believe me, im not new to this site. i have been around for atleast 3 years and more than that, i have gone through the archives of almost 5 years ago, so i know what im talking about

then why? itno saalon ke baad? simple, we also believe things are getting out of hand as far as corruption goes. we are not looking for support from you, we are capable of fighting our battles i just decided to come on board because i am seeing a disturbing emergence of hatred for the sake of hatred towards the daawat, not for the sake of justice.

[Al Zulfiqar]

pesticide,

you have been bandying around the word 'munafiq', throwing it around quite freely without even understanding its meaning. typical of sabak educated slaves like you ...!!

let us take pause and examine its definition.

Munāfiq (n., in Arabic: منافق, plural munāfiqūn) is an Islamic Arabic term used to describe a religious hypocrite, who outwardly practices Islam, while inwardly concealing his disbelief (kufr), perhaps even unknowingly.

The Qur'an has hundreds of ayāt (verses) discussing munāfiqūn, referring to them as more dangerous to Muslims than the worst non-Muslim enemies of Islam. The Qur'an states:
The Hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire: no helper wilt thou find for them;-
—Sura 4 (An-Nisa), ayah 145, Qur'an[2]

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:
The Prophet said, "Whoever has the following four (characteristics) will be a pure hypocrite and whoever has one of the following four characteristics will have one characteristic of hypocrisy unless and until he gives it up.
1. Whenever he is entrusted, he betrays.
2. Whenever he speaks, he tells a lie.
3. Whenever he makes a covenant, he proves treacherous.
4. Whenever he quarrels, he behaves in a very imprudent, evil and insulting manner."

now in the light of the above, let us analyse your and your fellow abdes' behaviour.
1. you call yourself a dawoodi bohra first and foremost, a follower of a muslim shia sect, but refer to sunni's and all other muslims as 'ola musalmano', or 'kafar', including all other shias as 'bewaqoof' and 'jahannum vasi's'. yet when convenient you and your leaders suddenly portray yourselves as pukka musalman, all gung ho and being part of the larger muslim ummah bull crap. the syedna actively seeks and becomes the vice chancellor of aligarh muslim university (by paying huge bribes of course) as it lends an air of respectability to his nefarious unislamic activities. munh mein ram, aur bagal mein choori?
2. you talk of tauheed and taqwa and then refer to your dai as dai of allah and do sajdas to him, call him haqiqi kaaba & natiqe quran and firmly believe that without his approval even allah will not accept his abdes in paradise, thus proving that allah is subservient to dai?
3. you celebrate the dai's salgirah as if its the greatest event on earth and he is the greatest figure alive, while relegating the prophet's birthday to an also-ran among many minor observances?
4. you gleefully accept your dai and his parasitic family's extravagant lifestyle befitting worldly kings and emperors, with no income of their own except sponging off their loyal abdes, treating them like vassals and lowly classless faceless masses, while making an outward show of being pious muslims who strive to emulate the lives of the prophet and ali?? both of these noble characters lived frugal, simple, austere lives, with humility, grace and adherence to the principles of islam.
5. you call yourself a shia of ali, who took extreme pains to be open and transparent in all his dealings and held himself totally accountable for every penny collected, while your dai refuses to be held accountable for any moneys or actions, claming that he has divine mandate to do so!!?
6. you fall over each other to be awarded fraudulent titles of shaikh and mulla while not knowing a word of arabic or not even knowing how to pray namaaz or be a good muslim and bande khuda. titles which once held great religious sanction and respect have been reduced to a recognition of vulgar wealth acquired through dishonest and illicit means.
7. you and your fellow abdes wear regimented white uniforms to hide the hatred and evil in your hearts, hatred for all other muslims and for those who dare to oppose the unislamic acts of your dai and his family, the murderous plots you plan against his detractors, which involve persecution, excommunication and even naked violence. you and your dai have not spared widows, old people and orphans, even the sick and infirm have not been spared from his and his family's wrath. you pay blind obesiance to such shameless tyrants.
8. you rub your hands in glee when the dai and his establishment openly bribe corrupt public officials, goondas, police and enemies of islam such as narendra modi, bal thackeray, advani, gopinath munde etc and seek photo ops and advertise their closeness with them, present them with shawls and fat envelopes. when cornered with awkward comparisons with ali and hussain, cowards like you seek justification by making convenient and expeditious comparisons with the compromises sought by hassan!
9. you claim that all the references to burhan in the quran allude to your dai, and that allah had predicted and predicated his arrival and achievements before he created his universe!!!!
10. you claim that the 53rd dai converses with his dead brother who claims to be in the company of the panjatan paak, claims not made ever by any islamic figures incl. the prophet or ali in the past.
11. lastly, and how can i forget, you applaud your dai and his family for going on shikar and wantonly killing wild animals with high powered rifles in the name of sport and pleasure, when the quran has explicitly stated that wanton killing of any animal, bird or even and insect for pleasure is expressly forbidden, is unacceptable and an affront to allah and his creation?

did you like what i showed you in the mirror? for all your false platitudes and bogus ilm, you are nothing but a common street urchin, and as the prophet has clearly stated, you are a muslim hypocrite, a charlatan, you speak lies, you defend evil and you argue with abuse, threats and insults.

[Humsafar]

do you know for a fact that our Maula or his representatives have not reached out to the victims family? its possible that they have but this has not bene publicised. maybe its not on the sites because of people like GM bhai and you too, who are card carrying members who gleefully log on to the Bohra site and report all there is to know, on an open forum.

Really? Are you trying to say that the mafia clergy is actually afraid of this Forum?

in that way, progticide bhai is right in claiming that kahin toh, you are responsible for this aafat on us, indirectly, and unknowingly, for sure, but who knows...

What a load of rubbish. Here's another abde apologist speaking from both sides of his mouth and trying to shift the blame from his corrupt, illegitimate and immoral mafia clergy to reformists. Are you guys blind? Can't you see how unIslamic Bohras have become in the eyes of the Muslim world. The responsibility of this "afat" rests squarely and unequivocally on the heads of your mafia clergy. And don't you dare ever suggest that reformists have anything to do with it. Have you guys no shame? Is denial and evasion only things you know and learn?
And don't even start about "your means are wrong". It is mainly disgruntled and disillusioned abdes (not reformists) angry as hell who come to this forum to vent their spleen. Reformists have always used legal, diplomatic and non-violent ways to deal with the problems. Look at the reformist jamats where the majority of reformists are - not just this forum - and tell me how are "our means wrong".
It's your shameless masters who have always used the "wrong means": ex-communication, harassment, extortion, mental and physical torture, violence to deal with opposition. You should be questioning and reprimanding your masters. If it's the foul language you are worried about (which mostly comes from disgruntled abdes anyway) then probably you have not heard the filth your masters speak when they denounce their enemies. Engineer and Insaf that you praise have been "lanated" and abused by your masters (and all the rest) so much that it might shame a foul-mouthed madam in Kamathipura. Not to forget that they and others have been violently beaten on many occasions. Yet and yet these two gentlemen have the dignity and honour not speak one word of abuse for the Dai.
Wrong means? My foot.

[Bohra spring]

Zinger bhai agree foul language is unhelpful ,but you did not say apart from grumbling what approach kothar and us can take.

Take the issue grave destruction , please explain how we should bring this to a stop or let bohras have say in the decision. Of course we mean democratically . Please don't say we grumble and may be kothar will listen and accept a change.

[Al Zulfiqar]

we also believe things are getting out of hand as far as corruption goes. we are not looking for support from you, we are capable of fighting our battles

.

zinger, thanks for the hilarity! so what have your 'fighting battles' won you and your fellow abdes? what concessions? what victories?

in the last 5 years the number of new taxes has increased, now there are new compulsory fees to be paid for manhoos, mukasir, maazun, thali dabba, qarzan hassanah, haj and ziyarat to raudat tahera for deprived abdes (although the money is being pocketed by greedy amils and zaadas, with no proof that any abde has recd this largesse), najwas for syedna and manhoos at the drop of a hat, fees for syedna's salgirah grand jashans, fees for annual ashura picnics and tamashas, exorbitant and unjustified increases in vajebaat (another fraudulent and deceptive word to milk abdes) etc etc.... the list goes on.

if you are not looking for support from reformists, are aware of rampant corruption, persecution, intimidation and extortion, but are quite capable of fighting battles against an incalcitrant and ruthless foe, then why are you here? to vent or to justify the evil tyrants of saifee mahal?

pls clarify your stance, are you here simply to criticise reformists and the reform movement or to support the highway robbers? talking from both sides of your mouth as humsafar put it, is abundantly evident from your posts so far.

[mnoorani]

@ Zinger



yeh baat, mein apne liye hi kar raha hoon, not on behalf of the community.

Aap ka shukriay ,aap ne mujhe itna kaabil samjha.

Yes, i agree bahut na-insaafi, bahut galat bhi hain in our community, but talk about the now. dont talk about things that happened 15-20 years ago.

Ok , I agree with you . Abhi ki baat karte hain. Yeh kahaan ki insaafi hai ke kisi ghareeb mumin ko, ek waqt ki roti ke liye paise dene parte hain. Jab Qaum ke thekedaar weekly america ka safar first class mai karte hai, Saifee mahal ke denizens ki luxurious life pe to Banu Ummayya bhi sharma jai. Thali is the biggest scam of today. And still the community is being taxed for the upkeep of the zaadas.


why has the kothar not condemned or the incident you ask? kya ek simple saa sawal hain iska? maybe and maybe not.
meri rai mein, it is possible that the kothar has decided to keep a low profile on this. an attack was made on us, unsuccesfully a month ago, and unfotunately, successful now.

If the kothar wanted to keep a low profile then the Holy Mansoos would have retired quietely to Mumbai. Instead he chose show baazi of Ceylon. Where the mission is to squeeze the maximum of money and the publicity.


do you know for a fact that our Maula or his representatives have not reached out to the victims family? its possible that they have but this has not bene publicised. maybe its not on the sites because of people like GM bhai and you too, who are card carrying members who gleefully log on to the Bohra site and report all there is to know, on an open forum.

We all know for a fact that thesmalles good deed done by the Kothar is widely publicised. We have been told on ythe forum as how the Ambulances of the Bohra jamaat in Karachi are used for the ferrying of the Jamaat leadrs. that is why the edhi foundation people came out with open arms and helped the injured.

in that way, progticide bhai is right in claiming that kahin toh, you are responsible for this aafat on us, indirectly, and unknowingly, for sure, but who knows...
Are you out of your MIND ! You are now blaming the terrorist attacks on the us! It was the show baazi of the Mansoos at the AIRPORT AND OTHER EVENTS THAT IS TO BE BLAMED FOR THIS.



meri koi dushmani nahin hain aapse, i beleive that 50 years ago, we lived as brothers and we should today too.
yOU ARE RIGHT. bUT PLEASE REMEBER THE PROGRESSIVE HAVE NOT LEFT. tHEY HAVE BEEN SEPERATED BY KOTHAR BY THE BARAAT DECLARTION !



i agree that you are fightig for a right cause. a lot of devout abdes like us are getting frustrated, but aapki techniques bilkul galat hain.


What techniques are you talking about. Abdes entered a mosque in Udaipur with weapons and harmless,unarmed ,namaazis were attacked with brute force. And you say that our techiques are wrong. You are too blind and deaf.



on one hand, we have a creature like al zulfiqar who preaches to you to mind your language but who is so full of garbage himself. on the other hand we have people like asgar ali engineer and s. insaf, who will always fight, but fight with descency and dignity.


With this i agree.



ek kahawat hain, dushmani karo toh bhi aisi, ke jab dost ban jaye to sharam na aaye... or something like that, but im sure you get my drift.

"MAin apne Nuqte chiiniion ka, bara shuqr guzaar hun.
Unhon ne mera baraa hi khayaal rakha hai...

[zinger]

we also believe things are getting out of hand as far as corruption goes. we are not looking for support from you, we are capable of fighting our battles

.

zinger, thanks for the hilarity! so what have your 'fighting battles' won you and your fellow abdes? what concessions? what victories?

in the last 5 years the number of new taxes has increased, now there are new compulsory fees to be paid for manhoos, mukasir, maazun, thali dabba, qarzan hassanah, haj and ziyarat to raudat tahera for deprived abdes (although the money is being pocketed by greedy amils and zaadas, with no proof that any abde has recd this largesse), najwas for syedna and manhoos at the drop of a hat, fees for syedna's salgirah grand jashans, fees for annual ashura picnics and tamashas, exorbitant and unjustified increases in vajebaat (another fraudulent and deceptive word to milk abdes) etc etc.... the list goes on.

if you are not looking for support from reformists, are aware of rampant corruption, persecution, intimidation and extortion, but are quite capable of fighting battles against an incalcitrant and ruthless foe, then why are you here? to vent or to justify the evil tyrants of saifee mahal?

pls clarify your stance, are you here simply to criticise reformists and the reform movement or to support the highway robbers? talking from both sides of your mouth as humsafar put it, is abundantly evident from your posts so far.

bhai mere, humsafar bhai ki yeh ek purani aadat hain, yeh kehne ki that people are talking from both sides of their mouth, toh unko toh mein kucch clarify karne ka unnecessary samajhta hoon.

i am not here to critisise reformists. i am not here for anything other than to tell you that if you are fighting for your rights, limit your fights for those right. dont take of on tangents.

bhai, mein aur mere saathi toh abhi kucch saal se kaam kar rahe hain. you people have been around for 40 years. kya ukhaad liya hain aapne itne saalon mein? toh aapko kya haq hain humse yeh sawaal karne ka?

[zinger]

@ Zinger



yeh baat, mein apne liye hi kar raha hoon, not on behalf of the community.

Aap ka shukriay ,aap ne mujhe itna kaabil samjha.

Yes, i agree bahut na-insaafi, bahut galat bhi hain in our community, but talk about the now. dont talk about things that happened 15-20 years ago.

Ok , I agree with you . Abhi ki baat karte hain. Yeh kahaan ki insaafi hai ke kisi ghareeb mumin ko, ek waqt ki roti ke liye paise dene parte hain. Jab Qaum ke thekedaar weekly america ka safar first class mai karte hai, Saifee mahal ke denizens ki luxurious life pe to Banu Ummayya bhi sharma jai. Thali is the biggest scam of today. And still the community is being taxed for the upkeep of the zaadas.


why has the kothar not condemned or the incident you ask? kya ek simple saa sawal hain iska? maybe and maybe not.
meri rai mein, it is possible that the kothar has decided to keep a low profile on this. an attack was made on us, unsuccesfully a month ago, and unfotunately, successful now.

If the kothar wanted to keep a low profile then the Holy Mansoos would have retired quietely to Mumbai. Instead he chose show baazi of Ceylon. Where the mission is to squeeze the maximum of money and the publicity.


do you know for a fact that our Maula or his representatives have not reached out to the victims family? its possible that they have but this has not bene publicised. maybe its not on the sites because of people like GM bhai and you too, who are card carrying members who gleefully log on to the Bohra site and report all there is to know, on an open forum.

We all know for a fact that thesmalles good deed done by the Kothar is widely publicised. We have been told on ythe forum as how the Ambulances of the Bohra jamaat in Karachi are used for the ferrying of the Jamaat leadrs. that is why the edhi foundation people came out with open arms and helped the injured.

in that way, progticide bhai is right in claiming that kahin toh, you are responsible for this aafat on us, indirectly, and unknowingly, for sure, but who knows...
Are you out of your MIND ! You are now blaming the terrorist attacks on the us! It was the show baazi of the Mansoos at the AIRPORT AND OTHER EVENTS THAT IS TO BE BLAMED FOR THIS.



meri koi dushmani nahin hain aapse, i beleive that 50 years ago, we lived as brothers and we should today too.
yOU ARE RIGHT. bUT PLEASE REMEBER THE PROGRESSIVE HAVE NOT LEFT. tHEY HAVE BEEN SEPERATED BY KOTHAR BY THE BARAAT DECLARTION !



i agree that you are fightig for a right cause. a lot of devout abdes like us are getting frustrated, but aapki techniques bilkul galat hain.


What techniques are you talking about. Abdes entered a mosque in Udaipur with weapons and harmless,unarmed ,namaazis were attacked with brute force. And you say that our techiques are wrong. You are too blind and deaf.



on one hand, we have a creature like al zulfiqar who preaches to you to mind your language but who is so full of garbage himself. on the other hand we have people like asgar ali engineer and s. insaf, who will always fight, but fight with descency and dignity.


With this i agree.



ek kahawat hain, dushmani karo toh bhi aisi, ke jab dost ban jaye to sharam na aaye... or something like that, but im sure you get my drift.

"MAin apne Nuqte chiiniion ka, bara shuqr guzaar hun.
Unhon ne mera baraa hi khayaal rakha hai...

shukriya janaab, only ke aapne tameez se baat ki hain mere saath.

Bhai, inhi kaaranon ke wajah se hum naujawano ki ankhen khuli hain. But we will always have love for our Dai. He is our Father. We will always love and respect him.

Aapke pitaji bhi koi gunaah karenge toh aap unko chod nahin donge. You might disapprove of what he does, but you will always love him for being your father. Aap unko sudharne ka kohshish karoge

[Bohra spring]

Zinger Saheb .aap adha Urdu, thora Hindi or adha English kyu istemal karte ho ?

Burhani surti zaban koshis karo.

turd!

[zinger]

Zinger Saheb .aap adha Urdu, thora Hindi or adha English kyu istemal karte ho ?

Burhani surti zaban koshis karo.

turd!

Did you just call me a turd?

i can speak in British English too, but i prefer talking the bambaiya style. i think it has a flavour of its own. And besides, we are all Hindustani at heart.

Urdu? Really? Must have been subconsiously.

Coming back to my question, why did you call me a turd? I have always spoekn to you with respect and dignity. Do you want me to start speaking like i would, to an animal?

[progticide]

Reminder to All,

The subject of this thread is : The True Imam - How would you verify?

If you have anything relevant associated with this subject then you are free to make your contribution here. However, for inter-personal arguments and personal gossip please excuse this thread. There are many other threads for such discussions.

Hope the message is well-received and well understood by all.

[zinger]

do you know for a fact that our Maula or his representatives have not reached out to the victims family? its possible that they have but this has not bene publicised. maybe its not on the sites because of people like GM bhai and you too, who are card carrying members who gleefully log on to the Bohra site and report all there is to know, on an open forum.

Really? Are you trying to say that the mafia clergy is actually afraid of this Forum?

in that way, progticide bhai is right in claiming that kahin toh, you are responsible for this aafat on us, indirectly, and unknowingly, for sure, but who knows...

What a load of rubbish. Here's another abde apologist speaking from both sides of his mouth and trying to shift the blame from his corrupt, illegitimate and immoral mafia clergy to reformists. Are you guys blind? Can't you see how unIslamic Bohras have become in the eyes of the Muslim world. The responsibility of this "afat" rests squarely and unequivocally on the heads of your mafia clergy. And don't you dare ever suggest that reformists have anything to do with it. Have you guys no shame? Is denial and evasion only things you know and learn?
And don't even start about "your means are wrong". It is mainly disgruntled and disillusioned abdes (not reformists) angry as hell who come to this forum to vent their spleen. Reformists have always used legal, diplomatic and non-violent ways to deal with the problems. Look at the reformist jamats where the majority of reformists are - not just this forum - and tell me how are "our means wrong".
It's your shameless masters who have always used the "wrong means": ex-communication, harassment, extortion, mental and physical torture, violence to deal with opposition. You should be questioning and reprimanding your masters. If it's the foul language you are worried about (which mostly comes from disgruntled abdes anyway) then probably you have not heard the filth your masters speak when they denounce their enemies. Engineer and Insaf that you praise have been "lanated" and abused by your masters (and all the rest) so much that it might shame a foul-mouthed madam in Kamathipura. Not to forget that they and others have been violently beaten on many occasions. Yet and yet these two gentlemen have the dignity and honour not speak one word of abuse for the Dai.
Wrong means? My foot.

Bhai, meri koi dushmani nahin hain aap se. i know that you are one of the "authentic reformists" that i mentioned, which essentially means that i believe that you are fighting for your fair rights.

As for my opinion, i feel i am entitled to it.

i am not blaming the reformist community wholely and solely for what happened. you are right, our shor-sharaba brought us in their eyes, but the fact that certain members take glee in reporting every little thing that goes on in the community, in an open forum, is not right. if the sites have been restricted, do you not feel that it was for a reason? why do you wish to amplify what goes on in our community?

Not only do you keep yelling about the numerous ziafats, but you keep talking about how un-Islamic we have become...
Is that right? We all agree that jo ho raha hain, galat hain, but why broadcast it on open forum? That was the context of what i meant. you want to keep shouting at the top of your lungs that we Dawoodi Bohras have become an idol-worshipping, un-Islamic cult, on an open forum and then, when we are attacked, you want to put your hands up and say "dont blame us". why do you insist on washing our own dirty linen in public?

[zinger]

Reminder to All,

The subject of this thread is : The True Imam - How would you verify?

If you have anything relevant associated with this subject then you are free to make your contribution here. However, for inter-personal arguments and personal gossip please excuse this thread. There are many other threads for such discussions.

Hope the message is well-received and well understood by all.

Progticide bhai, with all due respect to you, aapko yeh haq kisne diya hain ke aap yahaan aake humein bataaiye ke hame kya karna hain, kya nahin???
You might have started this thread, but that does not make you the owner.

It has been proved beyond any doubt, by now, that we have our Dai to point out the true Imam and they have no one to turn too, so that they will have to rely on their own individual judgement.

So instead of acting like a class room monitor and shushing us all, why dont you ask admin to close this thread to further discussion?

[SBM]

But we will always have love for our Dai. He is our Father. We will always love and respect him.
Aapke pitaji bhi koi gunaah karenge toh aap unko chod nahin donge. You might disapprove of what he does, but you will always love him for being your father. Aap unko sudharne ka kohshish karoge

Zinger
]]Yes I will respect my father with love and NOT PARADE HIM AT HIS OLD AGE TO COLLECT MONEY LIKE ZAADAS ARE DOING WITH CURRENT SYEDNA
DO YOU APPROVE OF THIS?
Regarding aapke pitaji koi gunaah karenge If my father does something which is totally ANTI ISLAMIC AND GOING AGAINST TEACHING OF QURAN YES I MAY CONSIDER DISOWNING HIM IF HE DOES NOT CORRECT HIM, I WILL SUPPORT HIM IN HIS TIME OF NEEDS
So do you approve of Syedna asking for SAJDAH, CALLING HIMSELF ILAH- ARDH-NATIQ QURAN AND HAQIQI KAABA? all Anti Islamic practices

[zinger]

But we will always have love for our Dai. He is our Father. We will always love and respect him.
Aapke pitaji bhi koi gunaah karenge toh aap unko chod nahin donge. You might disapprove of what he does, but you will always love him for being your father. Aap unko sudharne ka kohshish karoge

Zinger
]]Yes I will respect my father with love and NOT PARADE HIM AT HIS OLD AGE TO COLLECT MONEY LIKE ZAADAS ARE DOING WITH CURRENT SYEDNA
DO YOU APPROVE OF THIS? NO SIR WE DO NOT
Regarding aapke pitaji koi gunaah karenge If my father does something which is totally ANTI ISLAMIC AND GOING AGAINST TEACHING OF QURAN YES I MAY CONSIDER DISOWNING HIM IF HE DOES NOT CORRECT HIM, I WILL SUPPORT HIM IN HIS TIME OF NEEDS VERY TRUE SIR. BUT... THIS IS A VERY DIFFICULT QUESTION TO ANSWER. WHICH IS WHY, YOU HAVE SAID IT YOURSELF "I MAY CONSIDER"
So do you approve of Syedna asking for SAJDAH WE SEE IT AS SIGN OF RESPECT AND LOVE. YOU ARE THE ONES WHO INSIST ON GIVING IT A RELIGOUS ANGLE AND ASKING FOR PROOF ABOUT WHERE IN THE QURAAN IS A SAJDHA JUSTIFIED. YOU DONT WANT TO DO IT, DONT. DONT STOP US CALLING HIMSELF ILAH- ARDH NO. IT IS WRONG. -NATIQ QURAN NOT SURE WHAT THIS MEANS AND HAQIQI KAABA YES. WE FEEL IT IS WRONG? all Anti Islamic practices

PLEASE UNDERSTAND, WHILE WE LOVE OUR DAI, HUM ANDHE BHI TOH NAHIN HAIN. HUMME SAHI AUR GALAT KA THODA SA KHAYAL HAIN. BUT WE WILL NOT TOLERATE ANYONE SAYING A WORD AGAINST HIM BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO. IF YOU DO NOT CONSIDER HIM AS YOUR DAI, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BAD MOUTH HIM.

WE WILL NEVER BADMOUTH THE DALAI LAMA, THE POPE, PRINCE ALY KHAN ETC
PLEASE UNDERSTAND. WHO EVER CONSIDERS OUR DAI AS "ILAH- ARDH" OR "NATIQ QURAN" OR "HAQIQI KAABA" WILL BE DOING SO OUT OF EXTREME LOVE AND DEVOTION. AAP AUR HUM, HUMME YEH HAQ NAHIN HAIN KE HUM KISSI KI MOHABBAT PE UNGLI UTHAYE