do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

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Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#91

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:47 am

Stranger,
Thats typical insaaf 4 u,on 1 hand he will say why masoleums for dead ppl.on other hand he will whine bout moulatena fatema zarih...............ask him to get permission from saudi autorities..we promise to make a zarih far better than any of the roza or zarih existing............................se now he will start cryin bout gold n expenses.....bechara aadat se majbur hai

bro guy_sam2005,
Aamin.....Inshallah that day will also come.
Just for Information

The Sunnah Concerning Graveyards

The Sunnah is to raise the grave at least one hand above the ground so it is known that it is a grave. It is forbidden to raise it more than that. This is based on a narrative reported by Muslim and others from Harun that Thamamah ibn Shufayy told him: "Once we were with Fadalah bin 'Ubayd in the Roman land of Brudis. One of our companions died and upon burying him we were ordered by Fudalah ibn 'Ubayd to level his grave. Then
Fudalah said: 'I heard Allah's Messenger, peace be upon him, ordering people to level the graves of the deceased." It is reported from Abul al-Hayaj al-Asadi who said 'Ali bin Abu Talib told me: "Should I not instruct you to do as the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, instructed me? Do not leave a statue standing without removing it. Do not leave a grave raised without leveling it."

Tirmidhi said: "Some scholars act upon this opinion. They disapprove of raising the grave more than necessary to indicate that it is a grave, and so people will not step or sit on it." Muslim governors used to destroy cemetery structures not permitted by the law, in accordance with the authentic Sunnah. Ash-Shafi'i said: "I prefer that the soil used for a grave be no more than that dug for that grave. I like to see a grave raised above the ground the length of a hand or so. I prefer not to erect a structure over a grave or to whitewash it, for indeed this resembles decoration and vanity, and death is not the time for either of these things. I have never seen the graves of the Muhajirin or Ansar plastered. I have seen the Muslim authorities destroying structures in graveyards, and I have not seen any jurists object to this."

Ash-Shawkani said: "It is apparent that raising graves more than what is legally permitted is forbidden. The followers of Ahmad, a group of the followers of Ash-Shafi'i, and Malik are of this opinion. An opinion that raised graves are not prohibited because this practice occurred during the time of the first and later generations without disapproval, which is the position of Imam Yahya and Mahdi in al-Ghayth, is not correct. This argument is based only on their silence about the practice, and silence is not proof when a matter rests on mere assumption, for prohibition of raising graves is presumptive."

Included in the discussion of raising the grave are dome buildings, shrines built on graves, and erecting mosques around graves. The Prophet, peace be upon him, cursed those who did that. The practice of erecting buildings around graves and beautifying them causes corruption, which Islam seeks to eliminate.

Part of such a corruption is exaggerating the importance of graves, in accordance with the superstitious belief of the ignorant, similar to the belief of non-believers in their idols, that these monuments can bring benefit or prevent harm. Thus they travel to these graves for fulfillment of their needs or achievement of their goals. They ask those in the graves what believers should ask only of their Lord. They ride horses to them, touch them, and seek their aid. In general, they do exactly what the pre-Islamic people used to do with their idols.

Despite this disgraceful, reprehensible evil and hideous disbelief, how many people dare to take a stand for the cause of Allah, or evince any uneasiness for the defense of the true din? Where are the scholars and students, and the rulers, the ministers, and the kings, who are obliged to teach the truth? Various reports reaching us leave little doubt that many of these grave adorers, in fact most of them, when confronted and asked under oath to reject such idolatry would readily take a solemn oath falsely by Allah. But if you then ask them, "(Swear) by your spiritual leader and your saint, so-and-so," they will ponder, apologize, refuse, and confess the truth. This is one of the clearest proofs that their polytheism is indeed worse than that of the Christians and others who say: "Allah, the Exalted, is the second of two or the third of three."

O scholars of Islam! O kings of Islam! What calamity to Islam is worse than disbelief? What tribulation for this religion is worse than worshipping others than Allah? What misfortune for Muslims can equal this misfortune? Is there any more serious abomination than this open polytheism?

You might be heard if you called the living, But there is no life in him whom you call; Had there been a fire in which you blew, there would have been light; but you blew in the sand.

The scholars have issued clear legal verdicts concerning the destruction of mosques and domes built in cemeteries. Ibn Hajar said in his az-Zawajir: (This is a collection of legal verdicts, pubhshed when king Al-Zahir decided to destroy all the buildings in the graveyards. Coeval Islamic scholars collectively supported him saying to do so was incumbent upon the ruler.) "We should not hesitate to destroy mosques and domes built over graves. These are worse than the mosque of adDirar, because these things are erected in disobedience to the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him. The Prophet, peace be upon him, has forbidden this and has ordered the destruction of raised graves. Every lamp or lantern placed over a grave must be removed. It is not correct to stop at a grave or make a vow at it.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#92

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:38 pm

bro. MF,

all your advice and quotes from hadees or practices of the prophet are but unwelcome noise for the abdes. for them, whether poor bohras starve or calamities take place in japan or anywhere else, no matter if millions die or islam is under attack, building gold palaces for the syedna and zareehs over the revered figures of islam is more important.

how that zareeh is going to be of any use to the one buried behind it, whose soul is in paradise residing close to allah, is anyone's guess. all the panjatan died living a simple, austere life, sacrificed their lives for their principles and for islam and allah, never compromised their ethics for money, power or fame.

the greatest irony is that a leader who professes love and devotion to the panjatan, does not practise their principles, integrity or simplicity in his own life. moreover, he insults their memory by building gold and silver cages around their tombs, as if to mock their simplicity and humility!! if hussain, or abbas, or ali himself were to speak now, they would roundly curse the syedna of the bohras for sullying their moral character and dragging it into the mud. those who shunned new clothes for themselves, but made sure their servants got them, those who took nothing of material value from this world except their akhlaq and their deeds, are being forced to wear gold and silver around their dead bodies! those who set slaves free and made them their equals are being exploited by a leader who revels in calling his followers slaves!

such is the irony and the final insult to the panjatan and their progeny.

stranger
Posts: 517
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#93

Unread post by stranger » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:33 am

Al Zulfiqar wrote:
stranger wrote: Mr. Insaf,
You are saying as if Saudi govt is welcoming us to rebuild the Moulatana Fatima Zehra (A.S,)'s Zari & we are delaying it for some or other reason. :shock:
stranger,

only a complete fool with an IQ of 32 would make such a statement that you just did. you have not understood zilch behind bhai insaf's profound observation. but am i surprised that an abde sympathiser of syedna would react the predictable way you did?

what bhai insaf is saying is this: with all the hypocritical love that the syedna and his father have proclaimed for the panjatan pak and esp. the issue of having a zari built for fatematuzzahra, collecting tons of phukat ka gold, silver and precious stones for it, how can they even contemplate building a grand mausoleum for themselves while their holy ancestor and daughter of the prophet from whom the shia sect supposedly begins, is lying in dust? if your illustrious parents are without even a proper kabr, would you build a gold palace over your own corpse?

all the abde rhetoric of flinging this "jau no aato" on reformists faces, is a mockery of ali, as if its too horrible a prospect to contemplate for your sultan, your shahenshaho ko shahenshah, maharajadhiraja, the supreme emperor, god on earth, just proves one thing. for all his crocodile tears on the fate of the shohodah and the cunning emphasis on purjosh maatam to make his followers stupid, dumb and ripe for looting, the syedna is a mere statue of dust. he has no guts, no compassion or compunction for those holy figures of islam. he can only preach, but not practice. all those who claim that he is greater than the imam, the prophet and even allah, please take note. all his life the syedna has lived like an arrogant king, he will go without food and eat jau no aato??? my foot! who cares if the grave of fatema is broken and desolate, the syedna must have a grand, ornate and extravagant tomb befitting his status. capeche'?
Mr. Insaf/Az,

May be i am fool with NIL IQ level and u r smartest person on the planet but could you please explain me a simple thing that On one hand you are concern and worried ab Zari of Moulatana fatema A.S, claim love and respect for panjatan Pak and On the other hand supporting and advocating her oppressers by calling them 'Hazrats' and etc etc ? Y sooo ?
May be Mr. Insaf can help you in this by making use of his profound observation.

waiting for your reply.

JC
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#94

Unread post by JC » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:24 am

It should be DEMOLISHED forthwith .......... No discussion or arguments .......... there is nothing to discuss, this is so obvious ......... a) Graves and Grave Worshipping is Unnatural and Incorrect, this is beyond Human Dignity and b) that too grave of a tyrant and despot.

Zalim Ka NAAM -o- NISHAN duonuo meeta deena Chaheay

seeker110
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#95

Unread post by seeker110 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:13 pm

JC aik our qadam agai chaltain hai our is gene ko bhi khataam kar dete hain.Na rahai bas na bajai bansri.

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#96

Unread post by stranger » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:09 pm

JC wrote:It should be DEMOLISHED forthwith .......... No discussion or arguments .......... there is nothing to discuss, this is so obvious ......... a) Graves and Grave Worshipping is Unnatural and Incorrect, this is beyond Human Dignity and b) that too grave of a tyrant and despot.

Zalim Ka NAAM -o- NISHAN duonuo meeta deena Chaheay
JC,
First of all its not worshipping.
BUT However,
From your logic ( Highlighted in Red), Do you carry same opinion on Roza Mubarak of Moula Ali (A.S.), Imam Hussain (A.S.) and Abbas Alamdar (A.S.) ?

ghulam muhammed
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#97

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:37 pm

stranger wrote:From your logic ( Highlighted in Red), Do you carry same opinion on Roza Mubarak of Moula Ali (A.S.), Imam Hussain (A.S.) and Abbas Alamdar (A.S.) ?
Bro stranger,

You are comparing apples with oranges. Suppose after the death of Osama bin laden, his followers construct a glamorous tomb on his grave or for that matter on the grave of the wahabi king of saudi (although they dont believe in the same), will you approve of it ? The 51st and 52nd dais are no less then the talibans, the only difference is the physical violence, the mental agony perpetrated by them is much worse.

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#98

Unread post by stranger » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:38 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:
stranger wrote:From your logic ( Highlighted in Red), Do you carry same opinion on Roza Mubarak of Moula Ali (A.S.), Imam Hussain (A.S.) and Abbas Alamdar (A.S.) ?
Bro stranger,

You are comparing apples with oranges. Suppose after the death of Osama bin laden, his followers construct a glamorous tomb on his grave or for that matter on the grave of the wahabi king of saudi (although they dont believe in the same), will you approve of it ? The 51st and 52nd dais are no less then the talibans, the only difference is the physical violence, the mental agony perpetrated by them is much worse.
Bro Ghulam,
You have not got my point.I havnt compared anyone and I will not even do that coz i cant even do that.
I have not taken point no.2 of JC under consideration..For a moment, forget ab the personality buried inside the grave.what i asked was purely on the basis of his logic on grave.
Is this not a WAHABI Stand of him ? (what i just highlighted on your post).

Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#99

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:44 pm

Br Stranger, other like minded abdes including icredibally lamebrainlabbake,

Hz Imam Ali RA ruled Muslim Ummah for 6 years. I have one question to ask. Why did he not build tomb or Zari on his beloved wife Fatema Zehra RA?

I will tell you why

Fudalah said: 'I heard Allah's Messenger, peace be upon him, ordering people to level the graves of the deceased." It is reported from Abul al-Hayaj al-Asadi who said 'Ali bin Abu Talib told me: "Should I not instruct you to do as the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, instructed me? Do not leave a statue standing without removing it. Do not leave a grave raised without leveling it."

So even if somebody built tomb over her grave he would have destroyed it.

Stranger said
On the other hand supporting and advocating her oppressers by calling them 'Hazrats' and etc etc ? Y sooo ?
First of all Hazarat means Mr.

2. Do you know Hz Ali RA gave his daughter in marraige to Hz Umar RA? a so called oppressor!!!!

3. Do you know he married widow of Hz Abu Bakar RA? And reared his son as his own!!!!!

4. Do you know Hz Ali wanted to marry his cousine while lady Fatema RA was still alive? She was not happy and Prophet said "whoever displeases Fatema displeases me". Shias use this to castigate oppressers but give Hz Ali pass.

5. Do you know Hz Ali advised so called oppressors.

6. Hz Ali never overuled any decisions oppressors made while he was Khalif.

7. He never published a copy of Qur'an he was supposed to have. Neither none of 12+21+48 imams and various dies of Bohras.

Wasalaam

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#100

Unread post by stranger » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:06 pm

Muslim First wrote:Br Stranger, other like minded abdes including icredibally lamebrainlabbake,

Hz Imam Ali RA ruled Muslim Ummah for 6 years. I have one question to ask. Why did he not build tomb or Zari on his beloved wife Fatema Zehra RA?

I will tell you why

Fudalah said: 'I heard Allah's Messenger, peace be upon him, ordering people to level the graves of the deceased." It is reported from Abul al-Hayaj al-Asadi who said 'Ali bin Abu Talib told me: "Should I not instruct you to do as the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, instructed me? Do not leave a statue standing without removing it. Do not leave a grave raised without leveling it."

So even if somebody built tomb over her grave he would have destroyed it.

Stranger said
On the other hand supporting and advocating her oppressers by calling them 'Hazrats' and etc etc ? Y sooo ?
First of all Hazarat means Mr.

2. Do you know Hz Ali RA gave his daughter in marraige to Hz Umar RA? a so called oppressor!!!!

3. Do you know he married widow of Hz Abu Bakar RA? And reared his son as his own!!!!!

4. Do you know Hz Ali wanted to marry his cousine while lady Fatema RA was still alive? She was not happy and Prophet said "whoever displeases Fatema displeases me". Shias use this to castigate oppressers but give Hz Ali pass.

5. Do you know Hz Ali advised so called oppressors.

6. Hz Ali never overuled any decisions oppressors made while he was Khalif.

7. He never published a copy of Qur'an he was supposed to have. Neither none of 12+21+48 imams and various dies of Bohras.

Wasalaam

I believe..You are not a shia..Neither you will claim of being..so you are not liable for reply what i have asked from Mr. Insaf..So bro. take a chill pill and Let him answer.

Wassalam.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#101

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:51 pm

I believe..You are not a shia..Neither you will claim of being..so you are not liable for reply what i have asked from Mr. Insaf..So bro. take a chill pill and Let him answer.
Subhan Allah, I am not Shia, Idol worshipper

Wassalam.

labbaikyaHussain
Posts: 351
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:22 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#102

Unread post by labbaikyaHussain » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:07 pm

Muslim First wrote:Br Stranger, other like minded abdes including icredibally lamebrainlabbake,

Hz Imam Ali RA ruled Muslim Ummah for 6 years. I have one question to ask. Why did he not build tomb or Zari on his beloved wife Fatema Zehra RA?


Wasalaam

Dic% head MF,who told you there was not a zarih or tomb on grave of fatema?....just 200 years back there were tomb on this muqaddas graves,the day wahabia controlled mecca and medina they have demolish all islamic sign from the sites.moron first do some research then come up with replies....

by the way u are doing kuffr by fighting againt the will of Allah and taking support of life supporting machines,u shud stop taking help of machines and shud surrender your self to will of Allah.if u dont do this u are prooved kafir coz no one including Muhammed(saw) ever took such help from machines to avoid death.so folow his sunnah and avoid all life supporting machines.

!@#$

Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#103

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:02 am

lamebrainHussain

Was there a tomb over Bibi Fatema's grave roughly 30 years after Prophets's death? Answer is NO.

Some idol worshipper like you built tomb later.

Wahabis were following Prophet's command not to raise grave more than a hand, Read hadith from Ali RA.

I will stop my machine if your demigod stops going to Germany for blood transfusion. Prophet did not take any modern medicine either. Next time when you get sick do not go to MD just stay home and repeat "Burhanu Allah Shifa".

Thanks for advice Dic% head.

!@#$

JC
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#104

Unread post by JC » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:18 am

I FULLY AGREE with Bro Muslim First.

Stranger and Labaika are simple abdes ....... they cannot help it, they are tuned SALVES (sorry but that is fact). You all cannot think and rationalize. You all are sentimental fools USED by Kothar in the name of Islam/Shia/Ali.

Understand ONE thing - ISLAM is Islam - it was, it is and it will stay SAME ....... it is Islam of Mohammad, All the Four Caliphs and Hussain ........ They were all ONE.

Bro Stranger - for your question - Bro MF has already answered. I am AGAINST Grave Worshipping. No matter what, if you have GRAVE, one day it will become an IDOL and you will pray to it ........ this is the very REASON Islam disallowed making of graves and going to graves. Is not this very simple - Once your Soul leaves the body, it is just Dust?? Dust to Dust..!!! WHY do you go to dust?? The 'person' is NOT there, the Soul has gone. Mohammad, Ali or Hussain are NOT in their graves, it is the temporary dust in which they lived in this world ......... it is like the clothes they wore, dishes they eat in ......... would you worship those too??

And above all - if you have grave for one, there will be grave for other and other and other and it will never stop.... and THATS EXACTLY what has happened .......... ONENESS of Allah gets compromised, Unity is shattered. Today in India bohras go on 'Ziarat' trips... what are those?? Even Sunnis have Mazars etc .........

Calling someone Wahabi will not help .......... Right will always remain Right.

porus
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#105

Unread post by porus » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:48 am

I do not have the exact reference, but there is a hadith stating that Prophet recommended visits to graves in order to obtain 'ibrat' about the transience of life. Prophet visited graves to pray for Allah's mercy for the departed.

The Shia, in addition, visit graves to invoke waseela of the pious. There are shia hadiths describing visits of Imams to the graves of their ancestors.

Regarding the extravagance of building expensive mausoleums for cult personalities, I would say that it is to impress the living and works rather nicely to strengthen the cult of human worship. Bohra cult have cultivated the cult of the 51st and the current Dai and have converted building extravagant mausoleums for their resting places into a fine art.

This is in sharp contrast to 'non-religious' mausoleums like the Taj Mahal. No one is suggesting worshipping Shah Jahan or Mumtaz Mahal. Nevertheless, it was, for its time, a very extravagant building project.

Muslim First
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#106

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:13 am

HADITH

Grave



1
Narrated by
Ibn Masud
Transmitted by Ibn Majah (Mishkat)

Allah's Messenger (Sal-allahu-aleihi-wasallam) said: "I prohibited you from visiting graves, but visit them now, because they teach renunciation in the world and remind the hereafter." [1769]

2
Narrated by Jaber
Transmitted by Muslim (Mishkat)

The Messenger of Allah (Sal-allahu-aleihi-wasallam) prohibited from plastering a grave or constructing a building over it, or sitting over it. [1697]

3
Narrated by
Ayesha
Transmitted by Sahih Bukhari

Two old ladies from among the Jewish ladies entered upon me and said, "The dead are punished in their graves," but I thought they were telling a lie and did not believe them in the beginning. When they went away and the Prophet (Sal-allahu-aleihi-wasallam) entered upon me, I said, "O Allah's Apostle! (Sal-allahu-aleihi-wasallam) Two old ladies..." and told him the whole story. He said, "They told the truth; the (sinful) dead are really punished, to the extent that all the animals hear (the sound resulting from) their punishment." Since then I always saw him seeking refuge with Allah from the punishment of the grave in his prayers. [Vol 8:#377]

4
Narrated by Abu Hurairah
Transmitted by Sahih Bukhari

Allah's Apostle (Sal-allahu-aleihi-wasallam) used to invoke (Allah): "O Allah! I seek refuge with you from the punishment in the grave and from the punishment in the Hell fire and from the afflictions of life and death, and the afflictions of Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal." [Vol 2:#459]



5
Narrated by
Ayesha
Transmitted by Muslim (Mishkat)

She asked: O Apostle of Allah (Sal-allahu-aleihi-wasallam), what shall I recite (meaning) at the visiting of graves? He said: Say, Peace be on the inmates of the abodes of the believers and Muslims, and may Allah show mercy to those who predeceased us and who will succeed us, and we shall join you, if Allah wills
. [1767]



6
Narrated by
Khaled bin Madan
Transmitted by Darimi (Mishkat)

Khaled said: Sura As-Sajdah (32) will argue on behalf of its reader in the grave saying: O Allah! had I been of your Book, accept my intercession for him; and had I been not your Book. efface me from it. It will then become like a bird which will spread over its wings upon him and will intercede for him and will prevent the punishment of the grave from him. And he said about Surah Al-Mulk (67) in a similar manner. [Part of Hadith - 2176]

labbaikyaHussain
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#107

Unread post by labbaikyaHussain » Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:30 pm

"Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord. They rejoice in the Bounty provided by Allah: And with regard to those left behind, who have not yet joined them (in their bliss), the (Martyrs) glory in the fact that on them is no fear, nor have they (cause to) grieve. They glory in the Grace and Bounty from Allah, and in the fact that Allah suffereth not the reward of the faithful to be lost (in the least). (The Noble Quran, 3:169-171)"
Last edited by labbaikyaHussain on Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

labbaikyaHussain
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#108

Unread post by labbaikyaHussain » Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:31 pm

"Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord. They rejoice in the Bounty provided by Allah: And with regard to those left behind, who have not yet joined them (in their bliss), the (Martyrs) glory in the fact that on them is no fear, nor have they (cause to) grieve. They glory in the Grace and Bounty from Allah, and in the fact that Allah suffereth not the reward of the faithful to be lost (in the least). (The Noble Quran, 3:169-171)"

stranger
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#109

Unread post by stranger » Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:32 pm

Muslim First wrote: Subhan Allah, I am not Shia, Idol worshipper

Wassalam.
Post this in some Sunni magazine or Forum.. :lol: you may get standing ovation. :mrgreen:

Wassalam.

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#110

Unread post by stranger » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:39 pm

JC wrote:I FULLY AGREE with Bro Muslim First.

Stranger and Labaika are simple abdes ....... they cannot help it, they are tuned SALVES (sorry but that is fact). You all cannot think and rationalize. You all are sentimental fools USED by Kothar in the name of Islam/Shia/Ali.

Understand ONE thing - ISLAM is Islam - it was, it is and it will stay SAME ....... it is Islam of Mohammad, All the Four Caliphs and Hussain ........ They were all ONE.

Bro Stranger - for your question - Bro MF has already answered. I am AGAINST Grave Worshipping. No matter what, if you have GRAVE, one day it will become an IDOL and you will pray to it ........ this is the very REASON Islam disallowed making of graves and going to graves. Is not this very simple - Once your Soul leaves the body, it is just Dust?? Dust to Dust..!!! WHY do you go to dust?? The 'person' is NOT there, the Soul has gone. Mohammad, Ali or Hussain are NOT in their graves, it is the temporary dust in which they lived in this world ......... it is like the clothes they wore, dishes they eat in ......... would you worship those too??

And above all - if you have grave for one, there will be grave for other and other and other and it will never stop.... and THATS EXACTLY what has happened .......... ONENESS of Allah gets compromised, Unity is shattered. Today in India bohras go on 'Ziarat' trips... what are those?? Even Sunnis have Mazars etc .........

Calling someone Wahabi will not help .......... Right will always remain Right.
Br Jc,
Do you knw Imam hasan (A.S.)
and Imam hussain (A.S.) do use to visit kabr mubarak of Nabi Mohammed (s.a.w.).
So according to you, were they grave worshippers n doing smthng prohibited in Islam ?

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#111

Unread post by stranger » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:48 am

JC wrote:I FULLY AGREE with Bro Muslim First.

Stranger and Labaika are simple abdes ....... they cannot help it, they are tuned SALVES (sorry but that is fact). You all cannot think and rationalize. You all are sentimental fools USED by Kothar in the name of Islam/Shia/Ali.

Understand ONE thing - ISLAM is Islam - it was, it is and it will stay SAME ....... it is Islam of Mohammad, All the Four Caliphs and Hussain ........ They were all ONE.

Bro Stranger - for your question - Bro MF has already answered. I am AGAINST Grave Worshipping. No matter what, if you have GRAVE, one day it will become an IDOL and you will pray to it ........ this is the very REASON Islam disallowed making of graves and going to graves. Is not this very simple - Once your Soul leaves the body, it is just Dust?? Dust to Dust..!!! WHY do you go to dust?? The 'person' is NOT there, the Soul has gone. Mohammad, Ali or Hussain are NOT in their graves, it is the temporary dust in which they lived in this world ......... it is like the clothes they wore, dishes they eat in ......... would you worship those too??

And above all - if you have grave for one, there will be grave for other and other and other and it will never stop.... and THATS EXACTLY what has happened .......... ONENESS of Allah gets compromised, Unity is shattered. Today in India bohras go on 'Ziarat' trips... what are those?? Even Sunnis have Mazars etc .........

Calling someone Wahabi will not help .......... Right will always remain Right.
Br Jc,
Do you knw Imam hasan (A.S.) and Imam hussain (A.S.) do use to visit kabr mubarak of Nabi Mohammed (s.a.w.).
So according to you, were they grave worshippers n doing smthng prohibited in Islam ?

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#112

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:16 am

Do you knw Imam hasan (A.S.) and Imam hussain (A.S.) do use to visit kabr mubarak of Nabi Mohammed (s.a.w.).
So according to you, were they grave worshippers n doing smthng prohibited in Islam ?
Were'nt they visiting their grand pa's grave? And Prophet of Islam's grave?

Who is preventing you from visiting your relative's grave?

Wasalaam

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#113

Unread post by stranger » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:28 am

JC wrote:I FULLY AGREE with Bro Muslim First.

Stranger and Labaika are simple abdes ....... they cannot help it, they are tuned SALVES (sorry but that is fact). You all cannot think and rationalize. You all are sentimental fools USED by Kothar in the name of Islam/Shia/Ali.

Understand ONE thing - ISLAM is Islam - it was, it is and it will stay SAME ....... it is Islam of Mohammad, All the Four Caliphs and Hussain ........ They were all ONE.

Bro Stranger - for your question - Bro MF has already answered. I am AGAINST Grave Worshipping. No matter what, if you have GRAVE, one day it will become an IDOL and you will pray to it ........ this is the very REASON Islam disallowed making of graves and going to graves. Is not this very simple - Once your Soul leaves the body, it is just Dust?? Dust to Dust..!!! WHY do you go to dust?? The 'person' is NOT there, the Soul has gone. Mohammad, Ali or Hussain are NOT in their graves, it is the temporary dust in which they lived in this world ......... it is like the clothes they wore, dishes they eat in ......... would you worship those too??

And above all - if you have grave for one, there will be grave for other and other and other and it will never stop.... and THATS EXACTLY what has happened .......... ONENESS of Allah gets compromised, Unity is shattered. Today in India bohras go on 'Ziarat' trips... what are those?? Even Sunnis have Mazars etc .........

Calling someone Wahabi will not help .......... Right will always remain Right.
Muslim First,
Lets JC answer my post, on the logic he written there( highlighted in red)..Ok.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#114

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:47 am

Stranger

You must be only screwball on this site who dictates who should answer and who should participate in the forum.

Buzz off brother

Wasalaam

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#115

Unread post by stranger » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:19 am

Muslim First wrote:Stranger

You must be only screwball on this site who dictates who should answer and who should participate in the forum.

Buzz off brother

Wasalaam
Its nothing like that bro, dont take it personal..Its just that somebody had written something based on HIS logic and understanding..so let him prove his point.

Conscíous
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:41 pm

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#116

Unread post by Conscíous » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:20 am

LOooooL ^^ :mrgreen:

guy_sam2005
Posts: 843
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:46 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#117

Unread post by guy_sam2005 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:22 am

JC wrote:It should be DEMOLISHED forthwith .......... No discussion or arguments .......... there is nothing to discuss, this is so obvious ......... a) Graves and Grave Worshipping is Unnatural and Incorrect, this is beyond Human Dignity and b) that too grave of a tyrant and despot.

Zalim Ka NAAM -o- NISHAN duonuo meeta deena Chaheay
is this lone jc's opinion or the voice of progressives?

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#118

Unread post by stranger » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:35 am

guy_sam2005 wrote: is this lone jc's opinion or the voice of progressives?

lol... :mrgreen:

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#119

Unread post by JC » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:37 am

Thanks Brothers!

Bro Stranger,

Since u asked - I am not sure if Hassan and Hussain were 'regularly' visiting the graves of Prophet, Fatema and Ali. They may be, some times. They were their parents.

The substance over form is that - did they preach to go to Graves regularly, have Milad and Urs 'celebrations', pray at graves, ask their help, take Vaseela there, and indeed start doing Sajdas there (now you will say sajda, not to grave, but then why do u have to perform sajda at that 'site' and open room for misinterpretation?)? NO, they did not do all this.

Whatever they did and stood for is open to all Sects of Islam and everybody agreees to that.

Why do you pick and choose. They did hundreds of other things, some of which you can follow - Do you do that?? Simple drressing, simple life, simple food, helping poor and needy, etc etc and list can go on and on.

What you are saying is that - JC eats Dal-Chawal EVERY DAY and eats Chicken once in 6-months. SO we will follow him and eat Chicken EVERY DAY, rather make it compulsory part of our food, and totally forget about Dal-Chawal.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#120

Unread post by Muslim First » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:45 pm

Hassan and Hussain were 'regularly' visiting the graves of Prophet, Fatema and Ali. They may be, some times. They were their parents.



did they preach to go to Graves regularly, have Milad and Urs 'celebrations', pray at graves, ask their help, take Vaseela there, and indeed start doing Sajdas there (now you will say sajda, not to grave, but then why do u have to perform sajda at that 'site' and open room for misinterpretation?)
Br JC

Please add to your list

Did they build monumental domed building over their graves? Did they build gold Zari around their graves?