corruption

[Zeal]

he sounds like a parrot of Sri ravi Shanker.

[like_minded]

Originally posted by Zeal:
he sounds like a parrot of Sri ravi Shanker.

LOL.... please do not reject or accept what I am saying, please try it out yourself, stop judging.

[Zeal]

Have you tried out yourself following Islam earnestly and sincerely ?

You can judge Islam , god and I cant even judge your(sri ravi..) comments !

[like_minded]

Brother..

There are some questions for which answers are within ourselves, Please dont mistake me, may be I was wrong in judging Islam, and based on that you are actually judging me, isnt it?

Really, my judgements are again my thoughts, so you see, these thoughts are always there to trap us, and not expose us to reality.

[like_minded]

Originally posted by Zeal:
he sounds like a parrot of Sri ravi Shanker.

I actually dont know Sri Ravishankar, and honestly I dont need to know him. Just quoted once previously(which even you can if you google search) I have no image of sri ravishankar in my mind while I am typing this post, But it seems, you have an image of him, isnt it? You are in a denial mode, and thus have created him in your sub-conscious isnt it? Ask yourself.

[Zeal]

There are some questions for which answers are within ourselves, Please dont mistake me, may be I was wrong in judging Islam
__________________________________________________

If you think so, why dont you start practicing it?

All this thoughts, mind , ask yourself etc which you quote in your every post will vanish.

The reality of this life given to us by Allah lies in just living it (by way of Islam) , rest all philosophy is only used by the mind to run away from following Islam.

Allah gives taufeeq to only those who try for it.
So give a try and you will back on track insha-allah

[anajmi]

like_minded,

One of the major differences between humans and animals is that animals live exactly like you want humans to live. They live in the NOW without any concept of the FUTURE or the PAST. Personally, I do not want to live like an animal.

[Zeal]

Like_minded does not seem to be very matured and must be in his early twenties.

Many a times people of this age group tend to think they have found some new philosophy and this is just to show its different or superior than what all other are doing in the surrounding.

I am sure its just a phase which will pass on soon for him.

anajmi...you continue with living as humans please

[Humsafar]

Originally posted by makberi:
Forgive my ignorance in spiritual matters ...being a rationalist..i cnat really think beyond my mind....i mean isnt it a paradox..to think without a mind....can u guys explain pls...

You're right, "thniking" won't take you beyond the mind. That's the way it is. The human mind is equipped to conceptualise and understand only a certain level of reality. Currently this reality is defined by two dominant cutlures: rationalist and religious.

Scientific rationalism believes in the reality of the sensori-motor, empirical world. This worldview is the gift of the Enlightenment and the positivist culutre it gave rise to. Human societies have benefited a great deal from it in terms of human rights and scientific progress. I'm all for scientific rationalism as far as it goes. But we must be careful when "scientific/rationlist" orthodoxy tries to define the world in it own light and proclaims its own reality as the only truth. Science and rationalism, great and indespesnable as they may be, have their limits. We moderns will do well not to put all our cosciousness eggs in the rationalist basket.

On the the other end of this divide is the riligious worldview (i.e. religious understood in the common, popular sense of the word). The reality it proclaims is totally otherwordly and mythical. It prescribes a life of certain rules and editcs. Follow these rules - no questions asked - and you shall enjoy the pleasures of heavan. Otherwise God's wrath may visit you. Of course this the dogma, the religious pathology which considers it's own particular narrative as the only truth.

Both these worldviews (rationalist and religious) are functions of the mind. They offer partial truths of reality and can take one only this far. But the ultimate reality lies beyond what human mind can concieve. What lies beyond is the realm of spiritality and mysticism. Call it cosmic conciousness if you will, it's a mystry a few great souls like the Buddha, Lao Tzu and Mohammed have been able to penetrate. It is believed that achieving this level of conciousness is possible by anyone with practice, training and technique - the first towards achieving this apparently is to bahish the mind. This is what "like-minded" has been talking about in his various posts.

[like_minded]

Originally posted by anajmi:
like_minded,

One of the major differences between humans and animals is that animals live exactly like you want humans to live. They live in the NOW without any concept of the FUTURE or the PAST. Personally, I do not want to live like an animal.

Animals live beautifully because they have no choice, and because we humans have a choice, we screw it up.

Animals are not bothered about creation and the creator, so they live peacefully in the NOW mode of life. But we humans, we try to understand what is creation and who is the creator, go in the past to find out what future is going to be like, and in the process we end up in conflict.

[like_minded]

Originally posted by Zeal:
Like_minded does not seem to be very matured and must be in his early twenties.

Many a times people of this age group tend to think they have found some new philosophy and this is just to show its different or superior than what all other are doing in the surrounding.

I am sure its just a phase which will pass on soon for him.

anajmi...you continue with living as humans please

If maturity is the age factor then you are in for a surprise, because I am only just born

If you think this is a new philosophy, fine, I am not denying it, because I dont know what is philosophy, and I dont care to know what it is.

Do you think I am trying to establish my superiority? well, that again is your view, because all are equal, and in equality there is no superior no inferior. It is what it is.

[makberi]

Originally posted by Humsafar:
Both these worldviews (rationalist and religious) are functions of the mind. They offer partial truths of reality and can take one only this far. But the ultimate reality lies beyond what human mind can concieve. What lies beyond is the realm of spiritality and mysticism. Call it cosmic conciousness if you will, it's a mystry a few great souls like the Buddha, Lao Tzu and Mohammed have been able to penetrate. It is believed that achieving this level of conciousness is possible by anyone with practice, training and technique - the first towards achieving this apparently is to bahish the mind. This is what "like-minded" has been talking about in his various posts.[/QB]

humsafar....as u have said that ther are things which are beyond the mind..another level of concisouness....but conciousness cmes frm the mind....as the great thinker Rene Descartes has said "i think therefore i am".....any sort of consciousness or existence is from our minds....how can we experience smthin "beyond the mind"...when our mind is the one that experiences n processes everything....

and for the record guys...let me point out that most of the views shared by humsafar or like minded have originated from the Islamic sufi School of thought....it was the interaction of Sufi islam and mystic hinduism which led to the bhakti movement....n now we have philosophers like Osho or Ravishankar carrying these thought forward.....so to consider these views as unislamic wud be inaccurate.....in my view....there are many ways to understand the Quran or cme closer to God ..lets not pass judgements on who is right or wrong....

[like_minded]

Bro makberi

Surely consciousness comes from mind, but thinking that it is just mind, is again a proof of domination of the mind.

We breath, does mind have anything to do with it?? we breath in and out every moment, without mind interfering, because actually mind cannot interfere, If it does then we will stop breathing. Thinking beyond mind, is actually not thinking at all, just understanding that nothing can ever be understood, mind is limited, being is limitless.

[makberi]

umm well technically breathing is controlled by the mind...there are 3 parts of the brain....cerebrum, the cerebellum and the medula...without getting too technical the cerebrum controls our voluntary actions...while the medula controls the involuntary actions like the beating of the heart, breathing etc.. i know u dint mean it frm the medical perspective...but wat i m sayin is that existence has a form becuz of these rules or laws of the universe....now ur tryin to tell me taht there are things beyond these rules n laws..or actually that these rules or laws jus dont exist....then wat does exist....if this "thing" is formless how can it be experienced....i m sorri i m givin all logical answers whereas logical debate shudnt work here..cuz as per ur view even logic is a set of rules...which probably does not exist....m i gettin u guys rite....lol

[Zeal]

If maturity is the age factor then you are in for a surprise, because I am only just born
__________________________________________________

I agree to it!

[like_minded]

Originally posted by makberi:
umm well technically breathing is controlled by the mind...there are 3 parts of the brain....cerebrum, the cerebellum and the medula...without getting too technical the cerebrum controls our voluntary actions...while the medula controls the involuntary actions like the beating of the heart, breathing etc.. i know u dint mean it frm the medical perspective...but wat i m sayin is that existence has a form becuz of these rules or laws of the universe....now ur tryin to tell me taht there are things beyond these rules n laws..or actually that these rules or laws jus dont exist....then wat does exist....if this "thing" is formless how can it be experienced....i m sorri i m givin all logical answers whereas logical debate shudnt work here..cuz as per ur view even logic is a set of rules...which probably does not exist....m i gettin u guys rite....lol

Brother..

Awareness is not controlled by mind, because if you bring awareness then awarness is lost, all that remains is thought.

I am not against MIND, I am only against the domination of MIND, because MIND always wants self identification in everything, Thats why there is EGO, JEALOSY, POSSESIVENESS etc etc, but if MIND realises BEING PRESENT, then the influx of energy which is PRESENT goes into MIND and it sees things clearly without self seeking identification.

Mind recognizes it mechanism that is LOGIC, but Mind does not stay there, it also tries to recognize what it cannot, then there is seeking and when there is seeking.... MIND is not PRESENT.

[like_minded]

Originally posted by Zeal:
If maturity is the age factor then you are in for a surprise, because I am only just born
__________________________________________________

I agree to it!

Great!!! thanks for agreeing with me for a change.

[like_minded]

umm well technically breathing is controlled by the mind

But what controls the mind??? That is what mind keeps trying and trying and trying to find out, so it forms an image of God and then keeps trying harder to reach it.

See.. it is so simple!! What mind cannot recognize, it reaches out to recognize THAT, because THAT is NOT THERE hence how can it recognize.

So.. mind has to understand that there is NOTHING which controls it, then it stays PRESENT.

[like_minded]

Because MIND controls MIND, so there is an understanding of ONENESS.

[makberi]

mind is not controlled by anythin..it is the one that controls the rest of us...rather the mind is all that exists....or is alive.....but the mind does follow sme rules set by logic....for example if u tell me that a person fell frm the 30th floor of a building...my mind will deduce that the person is dead cuz accoring to logic no one can survive such a fall....but lets say i break the rules n think that the person is alive.....he wont become alive...unless i m suffering frm schizophrenia......in which case he mite be alive in my mind...but is dead in reality....
i think u guys r talkin of a higher plane or level of thinking...which cud exist...i m not sure cuz i havent experienced it.....but ulimately its a plane of thinking or thought....so its part of the mind...as our thoughts are wat define our existence.....
our existence have certain limitations....we mite be able to break them in our thoughts....but in reality those limitations exist.....

[like_minded]

Brother makberi

Its always thoughts..... which keep coming and going... just observe them closely, they are mere thoughts, they come and go.. if observed or watched closely without judgements and analysis, they just go away... it is simple, but the Mind gives them FORM and seeks itself in it.

[makberi]

ur assuming mind is a seperate entity frm the person ...but all that is...is the mind.....its not as if the individual is a seperate entity..n the mind is another entity.....

[like_minded]

Originally posted by makberi:
ur assuming mind is a seperate entity frm the person ...but all that is...is the mind.....its not as if the individual is a seperate entity..n the mind is another entity.....

Brother, mind is not seperate it is a part of a being, but mind simply does not recognize it, That is why it is always in a seeking mode... who observes thoughts?? Its the mind itself, because it creates it, and then sees it as dual.

[makberi]

but u believe "the being" is greater than the mind while i believe the being is the mind....i hope i got u rite there

[anajmi]

Animals live beautifully because they have no choice, and because we humans have a choice, we screw it up.

Animals are not bothered about creation and the creator, so they live peacefully in the NOW mode of life. But we humans, we try to understand what is creation and who is the creator, go in the past to find out what future is going to be like, and in the process we end up in conflict.

That settles it then. You can take off your clothes and run into the jungle. Set an example. Try it for a few months then come back and let us know.

[Akbar Petiwala]

brother ajnabi,

Assalamu alaykum.

According to brother LM, the animals lives the best life. We must all try to live like the animal. Wow!

Brother LM, from animal kingdom, which one is the best? All are same? Do you believe in the theory of evolution?

allah hafiz.

Originally posted by anajmi:

Animals live beautifully because they have no choice, and because we humans have a choice, we screw it up.

Animals are not bothered about creation and the creator, so they live peacefully in the NOW mode of life. But we humans, we try to understand what is creation and who is the creator, go in the past to find out what future is going to be like, and in the process we end up in conflict.

That settles it then. You can take off your clothes and run into the jungle. Set an example. Try it for a few months then come back and let us know.

[anajmi]

bother Akber,

Come to think of it, even animals think about the past and future. Birds build nests to take care of their young after they are born. That is thinking about the future.

Bees build beehives. Ants have a terrific system of collecting food and building their homes thinking about the future. Animals that hibernate make sure they can survive the winter with sufficient food, again thinking about the future. In short like_minded is "out of his mind" and has no clue what he is talking about.

[like_minded]

Brothers akbar and anajmi,

"I am out of my head", can you please tell me what does it mean?? Does it mean I am looking at things differently?? But how can it be, when I am out of my head?? I am merely looking at things without getting any meaning or purpose out of it, or am I supposed to find meaning in everything?? Is that what you mean?? I am asking this not only to you, but also myself??

With meanings and conclusions, what has ultimately happened to our ownselves?? I am asking you as well as myself?? Has anything changed for good, has the world become a better place to live in?? Wars ended, conflicts stopped, divisions ended??? What is the answer?? NO.

The solution is not to make the world better, but to understand why it is NOT, where understanding is an action, This understanding is nothing different from understanding our ownselves, because we are world, world is us, If this action (understanding) starts.... then the world automatically becomes a better place.

[Zeal]

Like_minded,
you need some rest!
go and relax ...maybe in a jungle!

[like_minded]

Originally posted by Zeal:
Like_minded,
you need some rest!
go and relax ...maybe in a jungle!

Thanks... I am already there and completely relaxed. I have rested enough all these years, need no more of it.