Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Al Zulfiqar wrote:muiz,

people form circles and groups and beat themselves silly until they bleed, they use chains with sharp objects which they swing violently around themselves inflicting sharp cuts and gashes on themselves.

As gormless as you are, you must have drifted into an ithna ashari majlis

profastian wrote:As gormless as you are, you must have drifted into an ithna ashari majlis

Either you are unaware or are pretending to be so. I and many others on this forum have seen bohras doing zanjeer ka matam in the sehan of saifi masjid, husaini masjid and qutbi masjid some 20 years back and one can still see bohras oozing out blood from their bodies during the alam procession of shias during mohurrum.

Look, I have yet to see anything like this in jamaats I've been to. I don't know of any amil who actually tells mumineen to do this. So, no! this is definitely not encouraged by the amils. Sure, people do form circles and perform maatam..but its not obligatory, and many like me dont join in

ghulam muhammed wrote:

profastian wrote:As gormless as you are, you must have drifted into an ithna ashari majlis

Either you are unaware or are pretending to be so. I and many others on this forum have seen bohras doing zanjeer ka matam in the sehan of saifi masjid, husaini masjid and qutbi masjid some 20 years back and one can still see bohras oozing out blood from their bodies during the alam procession of shias during mohurrum.

Al-Muizz wrote: Imam ZainulAbideen A.S. was the first leader who did show us the importance of maatam for remembering Karbala.

Bro Al-Muizz,

Could you show some evidence from any authentic Islamic literature wherein it is proved that Imam Ali Zainul Abedeen (a.s.) or any Ahle-Bayt performed matam, least of all instruct their followers to stand in circles and do matam rhythmetically or organise 100 hours matam marathons or instruct their followers to do matam after every fard namaz, on every occassion whether it be a birthday or marriage celebrations ? There is a beautiful article posted by a bohra somewhere on this forum on the journey from Karbala to Madina and nowhere is there any mention of matam at all.

bro. gm,

perhaps now some morons will come up with the theory that imam hussain had ordered in advance that maatam be performed upon his shahadat and even the manner in which it should be performed, viz. yelling, forming circles, dancing rythmically in groups, the patent slogans to be uttered etc.

@Al Moiz
Al Moiz quoted,
Sure,
people do form circles and
perform maatam..but its not
obligatory, and many like me
dont join in.

As you are Dawoodi Bohra,
may i know whats wrong in making circle and doing matam?

murtaza2152 wrote:
As you are Dawoodi Bohra, may i know whats wrong in making circle and doing matam?

you will get your reply when you get your head out of the sand and the sand out of your eyes..

Kul yaumin Ashura, wa kul ardhin Karbala....Imam AS

As I have mentioned earlier, the circle maatam, wild gesticulation etc, are new phenomenon. Its not mandatory to perform maatam like this, and several folks like myself don't do this.....The Imam AS mourned Ashura, and maatam is mourning.

ghulam muhammed wrote:

Al-Muizz wrote: Imam ZainulAbideen A.S. was the first leader who did show us the importance of maatam for remembering Karbala.

Bro Al-Muizz,

Could you show some evidence from any authentic Islamic literature wherein it is proved that Imam Ali Zainul Abedeen (a.s.) or any Ahle-Bayt performed matam, least of all instruct their followers to stand in circles and do matam rhythmetically or organise 100 hours matam marathons or instruct their followers to do matam after every fard namaz, on every occassion whether it be a birthday or marriage celebrations ? There is a beautiful article posted by a bohra somewhere on this forum on the journey from Karbala to Madina and nowhere is there any mention of matam at all.

Al-Muizz wrote:The Imam AS mourned Ashura, and maatam is mourning.

Bro Al-Muizz,

There is a difference between mourning and matam (beating chests). Please prove that Imam AS or any Ahle-Bayt resorted to "chest beating" or for that matter did Rasul Allah (s.a.w.) did matam on the demise of his beloved child Ibrahim (a.s.) or on the martyrdom of Hamza (a.s.) who was very dear to him ?

bro gm,

its useless asking such intelligent questions to shia fanatics who have reduced the entire shia beliefs and philosophy to this base level: that maatam is the cornerstone or "the basis of our shia ismaili philosophy"

so without chest beating and self flagellation, shiasm cannot exist??? is it as shallow as that??!!

ghulam muhammed wrote:

profastian wrote:As gormless as you are, you must have drifted into an ithna ashari majlis

Either you are unaware or are pretending to be so. I and many others on this forum have seen bohras doing zanjeer ka matam in the sehan of saifi masjid, husaini masjid and qutbi masjid some 20 years back and one can still see bohras oozing out blood from their bodies during the alam procession of shias during mohurrum.

Brother GM,

You are right. I was one of them before 28 years. However in my last two years in mainstream Jamat it was banned and the veterans of Jamat used to snatch forcefully, Zanjeer, Chaqchaq and blade.

Most the member from maintream visiting here are very young so they don't have the background of our jamat and the changes that took place during last 30 years.

bro. hussain,

too many bloodied and wounded abdes would mean less income. you see the kothar needs violence but a controlled one, only upto the point where ideally mind control can occur and the pockets of gullible fools can be emptied.

Al Zulfiqar wrote:bro gm,

its useless asking such intelligent questions to shia fanatics who have reduced the entire shia beliefs and philosophy to this base level: that maatam is the cornerstone or "the basis of our shia ismaili philosophy"

so without chest beating and self flagellation, shiasm cannot exist??? is it as shallow as that??!!

joker zulfi

you are so low life that u wont understand importance of matam on Imam Hussain...better dont use ur pea brain and just entertain us as u are doing from years on this forum.we really appreciate your comedy

labbaikyaHussain wrote:joker zulfi

you are so low life that u wont understand importance of matam on Imam Hussain...better dont use ur pea brain and just entertain us as u are doing from years on this forum.we really appreciate your comedy

The greatest comedy which even overshadows shakespeare's 'comedy of errors' is the sight of abdes grouping themselves in circles and beating chests rhythmetically much like the junior artistes of farah khan's dance numbers, the sudden awakening of the abdes from their deep sleep on hearing the deafening sound of ya hussain and then like a programmed robot beating their chests without being aware of the bayan which was recited seconds ago as they were busy snoozing till the amil woke them up and then crying or if it is difficult to do so at the spur of the moment (which is really difficult) then 'rova jeevu muh banavo'.

labbaik,

the greatest comedy, as decribed by bro gm, is the bohra maatam. atleast the other shias are sincere about it, the bohras are all hypocrites and eagerly waiting for the niyaaz, when all their false show of mourning and crocodile tears suddenly vanish and their beady eyes scout around for the best thaal, the best piece of meat in the bowl, how to cunningly swipe the gurda and nalli from the guy sitting next to you, how to monopolise the chamchi while the bowls are being filled so you have first chance to corner all the gosht, how to catch the eye of your bosom buddy who is roaming around with the jaman and ask him for sly seconds, how to manouevre so that your clothes are not subject to soiling and staining, your neighbour be damned. etc.

shahadat bayan my foot! over 50% backbenchers are sound asleep with the crap and monotony, they wake up in fits and starts, half expecting that the torture is over, but slide back into a sonorous snooze only to be startled at the next tsunami of shouts and frantic mayhem!

where is the gham of hussain and his family slaughtered in the hot sands of kerbala, without food and water for 4 days, while bohra abdes devour kharaas, mithaas and labrez jaman??!! would you salivate and hog if your parents had died??

hypocrites and rascals all.

Al Zulfiqar wrote:labbaik,

the greatest comedy, as decribed by bro gm, is the bohra maatam. atleast the other shias are sincere about it, the bohras are all hypocrites and eagerly waiting for the niyaaz, when all their false show of mourning and crocodile tears suddenly vanish and their beady eyes scout around for the best thaal, the best piece of meat in the bowl, how to cunningly swipe the gurda and nalli from the guy sitting next to you, how to monopolise the chamchi while the bowls are being filled so you have first chance to corner all the gosht, how to catch the eye of your bosom buddy who is roaming around with the jaman and ask him for sly seconds, how to manouevre so that your clothes are not subject to soiling and staining, your neighbour be damned. etc.

shahadat bayan my foot! over 50% backbenchers are sound asleep with the crap and monotony, they wake up in fits and starts, half expecting that the torture is over, but slide back into a sonorous snooze only to be startled at the next tsunami of shouts and frantic mayhem!

where is the gham of hussain and his family slaughtered in the hot sands of kerbala, without food and water for 4 days, while bohra abdes devour kharaas, mithaas and labrez jaman??!! would you salivate and hog if your parents had died??

hypocrites and rascals all.

Zulfi bhai

100% true!! This is exactly what happens during the ashura tamasha!!!

like minded,

what i would really like to see is the fanatic abdes' comments...

Al Zulfiqar wrote:labbaik,

the greatest comedy, as decribed by bro gm, is the bohra maatam. atleast the other shias are sincere about it, the bohras are all hypocrites and eagerly waiting for the niyaaz, when all their false show of mourning and crocodile tears suddenly vanish and their beady eyes scout around for the best thaal, the best piece of meat in the bowl, how to cunningly swipe the gurda and nalli from the guy sitting next to you, how to monopolise the chamchi while the bowls are being filled so you have first chance to corner all the gosht, how to catch the eye of your bosom buddy who is roaming around with the jaman and ask him for sly seconds, how to manouevre so that your clothes are not subject to soiling and staining, your neighbour be damned. etc.

shahadat bayan my foot! over 50% backbenchers are sound asleep with the crap and monotony, they wake up in fits and starts, half expecting that the torture is over, but slide back into a sonorous snooze only to be startled at the next tsunami of shouts and frantic mayhem!

where is the gham of hussain and his family slaughtered in the hot sands of kerbala, without food and water for 4 days, while bohra abdes devour kharaas, mithaas and labrez jaman??!! would you salivate and hog if your parents had died??

hypocrites and rascals all.

AZ bohat khoob..zabardast..Apki kiya baat hai!!

Al Zulfiqar wrote:labbaik,

the greatest comedy, as decribed by bro gm, is the bohra maatam. atleast the other shias are sincere about it, the bohras are all hypocrites and eagerly waiting for the niyaaz, when all their false show of mourning and crocodile tears suddenly vanish and their beady eyes scout around for the best thaal, the best piece of meat in the bowl, how to cunningly swipe the gurda and nalli from the guy sitting next to you, how to monopolise the chamchi while the bowls are being filled so you have first chance to corner all the gosht, how to catch the eye of your bosom buddy who is roaming around with the jaman and ask him for sly seconds, how to manouevre so that your clothes are not subject to soiling and staining, your neighbour be damned. etc.

shahadat bayan my foot! over 50% backbenchers are sound asleep with the crap and monotony, they wake up in fits and starts, half expecting that the torture is over, but slide back into a sonorous snooze only to be startled at the next tsunami of shouts and frantic mayhem!

where is the gham of hussain and his family slaughtered in the hot sands of kerbala, without food and water for 4 days, while bohra abdes devour kharaas, mithaas and labrez jaman??!! would you salivate and hog if your parents had died??

hypocrites and rascals all.

Yes, there is some truth in that. But again you are generalizing. There is only a small percentage which do this and which is expected. Not everyone's Waliyat and iman are at the same level. Come and sit sometime in the masjid (not the sahan) and you will see what gam e husaain is.

ghulam muhammed wrote:

Al-Muizz wrote: Imam ZainulAbideen A.S. was the first leader who did show us the importance of maatam for remembering Karbala.

Bro Al-Muizz,

Could you show some evidence from any authentic Islamic literature wherein it is proved that Imam Ali Zainul Abedeen (a.s.) or any Ahle-Bayt performed matam, least of all instruct their followers to stand in circles and do matam rhythmetically or organise 100 hours matam marathons or instruct their followers to do matam after every fard namaz, on every occassion whether it be a birthday or marriage celebrations ? There is a beautiful article posted by a bohra somewhere on this forum on the journey from Karbala to Madina and nowhere is there any mention of matam at all.

Are you trying to say here that : we should NOT practise 'Matam' ?

Al Zulfiqar wrote:labbaik,

the greatest comedy, as decribed by bro gm, is the bohra maatam. atleast the other shias are sincere about it, the bohras are all hypocrites and eagerly waiting for the niyaaz, when all their false show of mourning and crocodile tears suddenly vanish and their beady eyes scout around for the best thaal, the best piece of meat in the bowl, how to cunningly swipe the gurda and nalli from the guy sitting next to you, how to monopolise the chamchi while the bowls are being filled so you have first chance to corner all the gosht, how to catch the eye of your bosom buddy who is roaming around with the jaman and ask him for sly seconds, how to manouevre so that your clothes are not subject to soiling and staining, your neighbour be damned. etc.

shahadat bayan my foot! over 50% backbenchers are sound asleep with the crap and monotony, they wake up in fits and starts, half expecting that the torture is over, but slide back into a sonorous snooze only to be startled at the next tsunami of shouts and frantic mayhem!

where is the gham of hussain and his family slaughtered in the hot sands of kerbala, without food and water for 4 days, while bohra abdes devour kharaas, mithaas and labrez jaman ??!! would you salivate and hog if your parents had died??

hypocrites and rascals all.

have you ever been to twelevers majlis. U can easily see, While matam and majlis goin on, they do not hesitate to smoke ciggeretes outside and In very next minute they will join matam and vice versa.
are you talking about this sincerity ?

Ok..for a moment..for your sake..agreed with you..abdes are doing nothing but kharas, mithaas and jaman and etc etc.
So according to you,
what should a person do, in rememberence of gham of Imam hussain, his family and their sacrifices ?

stranger,

if you can ask such a silly, rhetorical question after having read the entire thread, then i am sorry to say, i have serious doubts about your common-sense.

Al Zulfiqar wrote:stranger,

if you can ask such a silly, rhetorical question after having read the entire thread, then i am sorry to say, i have serious doubts about your common-sense.

My dear, you are preaching here that abdes are making fun of muharram and ol and etc..Ok.. i agree with u..fine.correct.
Now i just asked a simple question to you, tell us what is the right way to observe muharram a/c to you then ?
If u r deciding and stating something as 'wrong' then u must be knowing what will be the 'right' ..Isnt it ?
please enligten Us.

AZ,

Seriously, there has to be some kind of control over thoughts, don't you think? Since you are so damn knowledgeable about Imam Husayn A.S. and the Karbala episode, PLEASE Ghulam MoHAMMED, AZ, ETC, ENLIGHTEN US HOW TO REMEMBER KARBALA? This is an insult to one's beliefs. If someone sits at the back and snoozes in a Masjid, it's not going to be the first time, is it? Why are you so concerned about other mumineens faith and or lack of it? Shouldn't you be concerned about your own, man?

To spew such utter garbage is, well, despicable even for someone like you, who claims to be a believer of Imam Husayn A.S. I guarantee you you have NOT been to Karbala...any person who has been there would DEFINITELY NOT UTTER SUCH GARBAGE!

Al Zulfiqar wrote:labbaik,

the greatest comedy, as decribed by bro gm, is the bohra maatam. atleast the other shias are sincere about it, the bohras are all hypocrites and eagerly waiting for the niyaaz, when all their false show of mourning and crocodile tears suddenly vanish and their beady eyes scout around for the best thaal, the best piece of meat in the bowl, how to cunningly swipe the gurda and nalli from the guy sitting next to you, how to monopolise the chamchi while the bowls are being filled so you have first chance to corner all the gosht, how to catch the eye of your bosom buddy who is roaming around with the jaman and ask him for sly seconds, how to manouevre so that your clothes are not subject to soiling and staining, your neighbour be damned. etc.

shahadat bayan my foot! over 50% backbenchers are sound asleep with the crap and monotony, they wake up in fits and starts, half expecting that the torture is over, but slide back into a sonorous snooze only to be startled at the next tsunami of shouts and frantic mayhem!

where is the gham of hussain and his family slaughtered in the hot sands of kerbala, without food and water for 4 days, while bohra abdes devour kharaas, mithaas and labrez jaman??!! would you salivate and hog if your parents had died??

hypocrites and rascals all.

AZ, I really don't care how many decades you have under your belt, sorry uncle!

Imam Husayn A.S. did NOT choose to go hungry, and thirsty! So, according to your warped logic, we should all stay hungry and thirsty for 3 days? And let's add in some more warped logic, shall we? Since Amir Ul Mumineen Ali A.S. ate flour in Ramadhan, we should all eat just flour in Ramadan?

If you actually understood what went on in Karbala, you'd not be spewing such utter nonsense!

Al Zulfiqar wrote:labbaik,


where is the gham of hussain and his family slaughtered in the hot sands of kerbala, without food and water for 4 days, while bohra abdes devour kharaas, mithaas and labrez jaman??!! would you salivate and hog if your parents had died??

hypocrites and rascals all.

stranger wrote:
Now i just asked a simple question to you, tell us what is the right way to observe muharram a/c to you then ?
If u r deciding and stating something as 'wrong' then u must be knowing what will be the 'right' ..Isnt it ?
please enligten Us.

what does YOUR common sense say about how someone should express gham for the shohoda?? by dancing in circles and making a tamasha, yelling, jumping, making exaggerated gestures to show one's passion and devotion, how militant and macho one can be in one's junoon? all this orchestrated by daras trained ringmasters, who have been instructed to manipulate and inflame your emotions and then link it with slavery to dai?

the problem with abdes like you is that you have no awareness of our history or how our dai's and bohras conducted themselves with dignity and restraint up until the 50th. its your ignorance and brainwashing which makes you ask such stupid questions. it is sad to see young sabak indoctrinated fools professing ilm when unbeknownst to them they are the actual jaahil ignorants.

Al-Muizz wrote:
Imam Husayn A.S. did NOT choose to go hungry, and thirsty!

well said kafir!! is this the b.s. they teach you in the secret sabaks????

imam hussain CHOSE to remain hungry and thirsty by not giving allegiance to the tyrants, which could have saved his family and himself.

hussain gave his life once. the abde bohras and their syedna are slaughtering him and his family every day, 3 times a day!!

Al Z,

That is not what Al-Muizz is taught in Sabaks. Infact, in sabaks, they are taught that Allah had chosen Imam Hussain for sacrifice because Allah missed his opportunity with Ismail (as). However, what Al-Muizz said was the complete opposite of what they are taught, because he found himself stuck without an argument. The abdes are loosing big time over here. You are on a roll. No wonder the abdes want to ban you.

Al Zulfiqar wrote:

stranger wrote:
Now i just asked a simple question to you, tell us what is the right way to observe muharram a/c to you then ?
If u r deciding and stating something as 'wrong' then u must be knowing what will be the 'right' ..Isnt it ?
please enligten Us.

what does YOUR common sense say about how someone should express gham for the shohoda?? by dancing in circles and making a tamasha, yelling, jumping, making exaggerated gestures to show one's passion and devotion, how militant and macho one can be in one's junoon? all this orchestrated by daras trained ringmasters, who have been instructed to manipulate and inflame your emotions and then link it with slavery to dai?

the problem with abdes like you is that you have no awareness of our history or how our dai's and bohras conducted themselves with dignity and restraint up until the 50th. its your ignorance and brainwashing which makes you ask such stupid questions. it is sad to see young sabak indoctrinated fools professing ilm when unbeknownst to them they are the actual jaahil ignorants.

Mr. Az,
i am not asking what should not be done..that u olready mentioned..Abdes are fool, fanatic and moron, dumb and doing all what shld not be done during muharram...Fine..Agreed..DOne.OK
Now stop repeating it and answer my simple question : what should one do accrdng to you ?
cummon buddy, i am giving you chance to contribute something positive from v.best of ur thinking.

stranger wrote:
Now stop repeating it and answer my simple question : what should one do accrdng to you ?
cummon buddy, i am giving you chance to contribute something positive from v.best of ur thinking.

your paucity of common-sense and poverty of intellect does not compel me to explain anything to you, an immature fool who has nothing positive to contribute. come back and ask more worthy questions after you have grown up, say after another 10-15 years?