Dawoodi Bohra Forum

james wrote:

AgnosticTheist wrote: Dear James, I guess anajmi already answered your post.

He did call you a hypocrite .

now after getting kicked on almost every thread, james is trying old british technique of divide and rule...LOOL

these muffy supporters are real jokers.

He said: 'If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you. (The Holy Qur'an, Al-Umran, 31)

Who said? This is what the ayah is.

قُلْ إِن كُنتُمْ تُحِبُّونَ اللّهَ فَاتَّبِعُونِي يُحْبِبْكُمُ اللّهُ وَيَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ ذُنُوبَكُمْ وَاللّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

Allah is commanding the prophet to Say "If you love God, follow me, [and] God will love you and forgive you your sins; for God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace."

So, here the following is the following of the prophet (saw). If I quote this ayah and tell you to follow me (as in - follow anajmi) will you? Of course not!! If you do, then you'd be a fool.

This is a pattern amongst the bohra Imams and then their Dai. They take credit for things that are not for them in the Quran. I have explained these ayahs in detail many moons ago on this very forum on a thread titled "Pillars of Islam" which contains many such ayahs that the Imams and the Dais claim that they refer to themselves.

anajmi wrote:

He said: 'If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you. (The Holy Qur'an, Al-Umran, 31)

Who said? This is what the ayah is.

قُلْ إِن كُنتُمْ تُحِبُّونَ اللّهَ فَاتَّبِعُونِي يُحْبِبْكُمُ اللّهُ وَيَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ ذُنُوبَكُمْ وَاللّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

Allah is commanding the prophet to Say "If you love God, follow me, [and] God will love you and forgive you your sins; for God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace."

So, here the following is the following of the prophet (saw). If I quote this ayah and tell you to follow me (as in - follow anajmi) will you? Of course not!! If you do, then you'd be a fool.

This is a pattern amongst the bohra Imams and then their Dai. They take credit for things that are not for them in the Quran. I have explained these ayahs in detail many moons ago on this very forum on a thread titled "Pillars of Islam" which contains many such ayahs that the Imams and the Dais claim that they refer to themselves.

This ayah holds true for the noble lineage of Imamat of Prophet SAW in times of zuhoor and during the era of Satr , it is extended to their Duat Mutlaqeen RA.

Aql dictates that there should be a Allah Ta'ala 's representative for every second this world survives to guide the people onto Sirat Mustaqeem . During the zaman of last Prophet SAW , this job has been entrusted upon the noble progeny of him and in their absence in the satr zaman , their Duat Mutlaqeen RA . I am in agreement with you that I would be a fool to follow if you quote this ayah for yourself yet when Imam AS says , I believe him wholeheartedly .

You may get away by abusing the present Dai Zaman TUS over on this forum , but I am betting even the naysayers to dawat of present Dai TUS will take offense at your harsh words directed at the progeny of Prophet Mohammed SAW .

This ayah holds true for the noble lineage of Imamat of Prophet SAW in times of zuhoor and during the era of Satr , it is extended to their Duat Mutlaqeen RA.

Yeah, I know it is extended and I extended it a little more to include myself in it. I just need a bunch of fools to believe it to be true.

Aql dictates that there should be a Allah Ta'ala 's representative for every second this world survives to guide the people onto Sirat Mustaqeem .

Aql should also be used to see if a person claiming as such is capable or not. Aql should be used when a person requires your money to guide you to sirat mustaqeem. The last thing abdes use is their Aql!!

but I am betting even the naysayers to dawat of present Dai TUS will take offense at your harsh words directed at the progeny of Prophet Mohammed SAW .

No I would not since this Dai is not the real progeny of the Prophet as Dawat was interpreted by Raja Bharmal and Tarmal

anajmi wrote:
Yeah, I know it is extended and I extended it a little more to include myself in it. I just need a bunch of fools to believe it to be true.

I am in agreement with you when you claim those who will believe your own personal extension are fools.

Aql should also be used to see if a person claiming as such is capable or not. Aql should be used when a person requires your money to guide you to sirat mustaqeem. The last thing abdes use is their Aql!!

If money was not means to test one's faith then Allah Ta'ala in his infinite wisdom would have not included " zakah " as one of the pillars and linked it with salah in so many verses.

Spending money in the way of Allah Ta'ala is one of the means to Sirat Mustaqeem.Should I post a hadith reported by neutral Abu Huraira which shows the fate of the believer who has not paid zakah on the Day of Resurrection ?

( Joke )

SBM wrote:

but I am betting even the naysayers to dawat of present Dai TUS will take offense at your harsh words directed at the progeny of Prophet Mohammed SAW .

No I would not since this Dai is not the real progeny of the Prophet as Dawat was interpreted by Raja Bharmal and Tarmal

Reading twice would help . Try it .

Progeny of Prophet Mohammed SAW was reference for the esteemed Imam Mohammed Baqir AS . anajmi attacked the grandson of Imam Husain AS and accused him of falsely claiming ayahs of Koran for himself . Nazobillah .

anajmi wrote:This is a pattern amongst the bohra Imams and then their Dai. They take credit for things that are not for them in the Quran.

If money was not means to test one's faith then Allah Ta'ala in his infinite wisdom would have not included " zakah " as one of the pillars and linked it with salah in so many verses.

Not using that Aql of yours are you? I wasn't talking about the guy giving his money. I was talking about the guy asking for money. The Quranic command is to give zakah. Not to ask for it!!!

Did you know that the prophet (saw) never accepted charity? Did your Dais learn that from him? Of course not!!

anajmi wrote:

If money was not means to test one's faith then Allah Ta'ala in his infinite wisdom would have not included " zakah " as one of the pillars and linked it with salah in so many verses.

Not using that Aql of yours are you? I wasn't talking about the guy giving his money. I was talking about the guy asking for money. The Quranic command is to give zakah. Not to ask for it!!!

That is one twisted logic. It is the duty of Dai TUS of Panjatan AS to collect zakah like the Prophet SAW was ordered to and he collected .

A fun fact : An usurper declared war on Muslims who refused to pay zakah. He " asked " . They refused. He declared War.

That is one twisted logic. Are we following usurpers now?

Let me repeat. The Quranic command is to give zakah. Not to ask for it.

Zakah is supposed to be used for the benefit of the muslim ummah and not to build palaces for oneself. Zakat during the time of khilafat was equivalent to the tax a normal person pays to the government. Try not giving tax and see how the government declares war on you. With the disbanding of the khilafat, zakah is now a personal responsibility. The institution of the Dai is a corrupt institution that pilferages the zakah money of the bohras. You'd be better off giving zakat to the poor yourself. During the khilafat, the khalifa was responsible for the poor. People paying zakah weren't. Now, you can give directly to the poor, because the Dai cannot be trusted as we have been witnessing for the last 50 years. Well, in my case for the last 24.

anajmi wrote:Did you know that the prophet (saw) never accepted charity? Did your Dais learn that from him? Of course not!!

" Sadaqah " is haram on the Ahle Bayt . Gifts aren't . Prophet SAW accepted gifts .

Narrated Abu Huraira (edited) :
Whenever a meal was brought to Allah’s Apostle (salAllahu alayhi wa sallam), he would ask whether it was a gift or Sadaqa (something given in charity). If he was told that it was Sadaqa, he would tell his companions to eat it, but if it was a gift, he would hurry to share it with them.
[Sahih Bukhari - Book 47, Hadith 750]

http://www.islamquote.com/2013/01/17/pr ... s-sadaqah/

When you give zakah, your Dai considers it a gift and keeps it for himself I guess. We started with following, then jumped to Aql, then moved to zakah and now are vaulting to gifts. You are all over the place. Time to give it a rest.

anajmi wrote: Zakat during the time of khilafat was equivalent to the tax a normal person pays to the government. Try not giving tax and see how the government declares war on you.

Prophet SAW used to collect Zakah as he was ordered to . There was no decree of a declaration of war against the people who didn't give Zakah during his lifetime or for all of end times. Did the changing of meaning of zakah or the authorization of a government/khilafat come from Allah Ta'ala or his Rasul SAW ? It was Abu Bakr made who had no authorization whatsoever to declare war on people who refused to give zakah.

With the disbanding of the khilafat, zakah is now a personal responsibility.

During Rasullah SAW 's lifetime it was a personal responsibility . Then during the time of khilafat , new rules were set in without any authorization from Allah Ta'ala or Rasullah SAW. After khilafat , we are back to personal responsibility . This is an example of a " bidah " set in stone if there ever was.

The institution of the Dai is a corrupt institution that pilferages the zakah money of the bohras.

That is just your opinion . There has been no pilferation of any kind by the Duat Mutlaqeen RA and present Dai TUS in my opinion.

During the khilafat, the khalifa was responsible for the poor.

Wasn't Rasullah SAW responsible for his ummah in his lifetime ? It is a big accusation on Prophet SAW that Abu Bakr had to introduce bidah because Prophet wasn't far sighted to know that declaring war on Muslims who refused to pay zakah was necessary . Nozubillah .

anajmi wrote: We started with following, then jumped to Aql, then moved to zakah and now are vaulting to gifts. You are all over the place. Time to give it a rest.

It is your dishonesty which is intertwining different words and presenting hokum . You brought the issue of money into the debate and I have been kind to facilitate your sidetracking .

Rasullah SAW collected Zakah as he was ordered to by Allah Ta'ala.

Sadaqah is haram on Rasullah SAW and his Ahle Bayt.

Rasullah SAW accepted gifts .

If you dispute any of the above statements , give it a try .

anajmi wrote:When you give zakah, your Dai considers it a gift and keeps it for himself I guess.

Nothing of that sort ever happens.

james wrote:

anajmi wrote:When you give zakah, your Dai considers it a gift and keeps it for himself I guess.

Nothing of that sort ever happens.

So Why Zakat was replaced by Wajebaats on the yearly Kothari Income Tax Form?

james wrote:

anajmi wrote:When you give zakah, your Dai considers it a gift and keeps it for himself I guess.

Nothing of that sort ever happens.

James you sure nothing of that ever happens...I mean no one from his Kasre Ali benefits from wajebat. Are you that close to the money handlers to testify or you are relaying something you believe .

We can split hairs what is wajebat and what is zakat. The fact is Bohras give it considering it is zakat...now if you call it something else where zakat is negligible figure in the total sum that trickles into helping someone somewhere while the rest called some innovative name ends up somewhere in the dynasty.

What intrigues is how the Sayedna and his extended family leave such a lavish life...private jets, limousines , maids and servants. I mean they are so busy with preaching and praying when do they get time to earn a living if it is not dipping into public funds. Sure you will respond gifts ? Ziafats !

What I am saying come up with a better excuse ....may be if it is logical we can review our perception if that is if SMS cares. And he should because SKQ would not have made the first move to promise accountability and transparency if there was no hanky panky.

SBM wrote:

james wrote: Nothing of that sort ever happens.

So Why Zakat was replaced by Wajebaats on the yearly Kothari Income Tax Form?

It isn't replaced . Wajebat is the operative word for the facilitation of payment of dues . Zakah , Sabeel , Najwa , Niyaz come under the umbrella of Wajebat.

gift for james

godmoney wrote:Height of shameful act

Got a sms from sheteali

Maulana Mohammad Burhanuddin Aqa RA na Chehlum ni mubarak raat na mauqe par sagla mumineen Raudat Tahera ma ziyarat vaste hazir thae, te waqt GOLAK ma fakhir raqm nakhi ne barakat le.


Lol I think muffy group sud b name as begger

For everything he need just money without money he wud not b able to live

Ppl know ziharat karwa jai toh gulak ma paisa nakhe but for this u don't need to sms n beg

Question is : There was no money taken in taziyat in any form? or was there some kind of loop hole to collect money?[/quote]


First of all , money is not " taken " . It is given " voluntarily " by Mumineen who want to participate in said good deeds.

And yes , there was no one collecting najwa covers during taziyat ,[/quote]

Assalaam o Alaikum to all....
Taziyat ke waqt nazwa bhi diye hai aur salaam bhi kiye....jo bhi taziyat ke liye gaye thhe...unse gate par hee cover le liye thhe...jisne gate par cover nahi diye...unko ye instructions diye ki..."moula ne cover see salaam na karzo...moula na qadam ma najwa na cover muki dejo"....this is fact. kitne percent logo ne kiye...ye nahi bataa sakta....kya sabhi Taziyat ke liye gaye thhe ya qadambosi ke liye gaye thhe ??
Dubai mai 40 din tak jo jaman hue...usme bhi sabhi se individual jaman likhwaye....40 jaman ke 80 individually hoob pahle se hee aa gayi thhi...uske baad sabhi ke shop par jaakar bhi hoob likhwayi....aur masjid mai bhi counter lage thhe...jahaa regularly announce kar rahe thhe...moula na jaman ma fakhir hoob lakhawo....jab pahle se hee 40 jaman ka double fund aa gayaa thaa....phir sabhi se aur hoob lene ka kya matlab hai ?? just imagine kitna fund raise kiya hogaa....ye extra fund kahaa jaayega GOD knows..aur india mai bhi FMB ki thali 40 days se band thhi...ye 40 days ke bhi statement sabhi ko bheje hai....jaldi see jaldi FMB no balance amount jamaa karawo....kem ki thali thrusday see start thaee chhe....ye fund kahaa jaayega...jab 40 days FMB band tha....phir isme jo bhi montly amount fix hai...uske paise kyu le rahe hai ??

Below is my initial post to initiate discussion. Reading through the posts I am amused and rather perturbed that most of them have gone on different tangents. Is it too much to ask to stay on the topic!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A casual scroll through most of the posts after the demise of Syedna Muhammed Burhanuddin have generally been focused on the division between the camps of SMS and SQS. There is absolutely no or little mention of the fact that hundreds and thousands of Abdes from the world over are converging to Mumbai. A lot of my 'friends and relatives' are, or will, travel from Canada, Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania, Madagascar and England to Mumbai. 'Ame Maulana Muffadal ne Taziat dewa jai rahya che'. I know for a fact that a lot of them are salaried employees and small businessmen. The cost of travel at short notice can be very expensive. Yet, I know people of mediocre income jetting off. Having said that follows my question of najwa, salaam, kadambosi, accomodation, out of
pocket expenses, meals, local travel, etc. Train and bus loads of people arrive daily from all parts of India to Mumbai.

Agreed they have their Aqida, et al, but someone please enlighten me as to how people are able to cough up the money at short notice to do that. My guess is that Qarze Hasana lends them whatever they need for this 'Khair' cause. After all, that would be one more 'fanso' to keep them adhered to the flock.

For people who have faith in Allah, Ambiya, Panjatan, Aimmat, Doat Mutlaqeen until Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin and Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin, (and there are literally thousands) spending money to do ziyarat and give taziyat to Aqa Maula is of no consequence. I myself travelled to Mumbai with my family and had naseeb to do ziyarat and give taziyat to Maula. Although it set me back a few thousand dollars, I am sure with the barakat and sawab gained, it was a small price to pay. Again this is true for people who have faith. For the progressive brigade, you can continue your keyboard battles and be miserable at all times.

Bohra spring wrote: James you sure nothing of that ever happens...I mean no one from his Kasre Ali benefits from wajebat. Are you that close to the money handlers to testify or you are relaying something you believe .

I am sure nothing of that sort happens . Speculation gets you nowhere .

We can split hairs what is wajebat and what is zakat. The fact is Bohras give it considering it is zakat...now if you call it something else where zakat is negligible figure in the total sum that trickles into helping someone somewhere while the rest called some innovative name ends up somewhere in the dynasty.

Zakah comes under the umbrella of Wajebat . Mumineen know this . It makes you look like a fool when you start giving your opinions as " fact " .

What intrigues is how the Sayedna and his extended family leave such a lavish life...private jets, limousines , maids and servants. I mean they are so busy with preaching and praying when do they get time to earn a living if it is not dipping into public funds. Sure you will respond gifts ? Ziafats !

Zakah money is not used for travels of Syedna TUS . In one of his bayans , Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS himself said that he used to do araz for raza of business to his revered father Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA ( gist of the bayan . ) It is no secret that the family of Dai TUS does business and earn a living .

What I am saying come up with a better excuse ....may be if it is logical we can review our perception if that is if SMS cares. And he should because SKQ would not have made the first move to promise accountability and transparency if there was no hanky panky.

What steps did Khuzaima take against the hanky panky when he was in rutba of Mazoon during the lifetime of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA ? He took zyafats and accepted najwas from mumineen . It is just brownie points.

What intrigues is how the Sayedna and his extended family leave such a lavish life...private jets, limousines , maids and servants. I mean they are so busy with preaching and praying when do they get time to earn a living if it is not dipping into public funds. Sure you will respond gifts ? Ziafats !

Zakah money is not used for travels of Syedna TUS . In one of his bayans , Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS himself said that he used to do araz for raza of business to his revered father Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA ( gist of the bayan . ) It is no secret that the family of Dai TUS does business and earn a living .

Mr James
Could you please throw light on what kind of business that would be because it's real good money with very low investment of time

Could you please throw light on what kind of business that would be because it's real good money with very low investment of time

EXTORTION

james wrote:Bohra spring wrote:
James you sure nothing of that ever happens...I mean no one from his Kasre Ali benefits from wajebat. Are you that close to the money handlers to testify or you are relaying something you believe .

I am sure nothing of that sort happens . Speculation gets you nowhere .

It seems James 0053 lives on some other planet.

james wrote:It is no secret that the family of Dai TUS does business and earn a living .

Where did the seed capital of billions of dollars come from ?? Are they the sons of Emperor Akbar or some other Maharajas who have inherited such enormous wealth ??

james wrote:Zakah money is not used for travels of Syedna TUS .

Then is it the crores collected from Ziafats and Hadiyats that are used for his travels and other luxuries ?

P.S. This guy James 0053 is a mole planted here by Muffy and his gang who comes up with ridiculous and childish logic to justify every evil prevalent in Dawat administration. He also makes it a point to derail every thread which exposes his masters but Muffy's PR machinery has failed here miserably.

Sujud wrote:

What intrigues is how the Sayedna and his extended family leave such a lavish life...private jets, limousines , maids and servants. I mean they are so busy with preaching and praying when do they get time to earn a living if it is not dipping into public funds. Sure you will respond gifts ? Ziafats !

Zakah money is not used for travels of Syedna TUS . In one of his bayans , Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS himself said that he used to do araz for raza of business to his revered father Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA ( gist of the bayan . ) It is no secret that the family of Dai TUS does business and earn a living .

Mr James
Could you please throw light on what kind of business that would be because it's real good money with very low investment of time

I don't know what kind of business nor it is my place to gossip about the business of others much less Dai Zaman TUS .

nor it is my place to gossip about the business of others much less Dai Zaman TUS

Really James
That did not stop you from gossiping against SKQ did it

ghulam muhammed wrote: It seems James 0053 lives on some other planet.

I bet your dementia is saying " Mars , Mars "