Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Posted: **Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:44 pm**

The best way to attract new followers or to prove that who is on right path is to debate.

Why MS did not accept the challenge? If he had accept the challenge than the case would have been resolved internally and no outsider would have come to know about our split.

Is running away from challenge an indication that MS is not so ILHAMI ?

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:12 am**

MS has only completed 7th Grade. Plus his arabic is not good. Give him arabic text without eraabs and he will not be able to read it.

The day he accepts Mubahila he will give up his false claim.

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:25 am**

My guess is that KQ wasn't worth the trouble.
The Shzds and Khidmat Guzaars were enough to knock him out. As they are doing in the Courts.
There have been a few websites created in reply to KQ. KQ hasn't been able to counter a single point.

I, myself have brought up matters to Haqniwaar & Crater Lake (who seem to be inner circle Qutbis), who haven't been able to answer a single question on the Forum or in PM's.

If tiny ants can kill the elephant, why does Syedna Mufaddal TUS need to bother?

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:32 am**

Adam wrote:My guess is that KQ wasn't worth the trouble.
The Shzds and Khidmat Guzaars were enough to knock him out. As they are doing in the Courts.
There have been a few websites created in reply to KQ. KQ hasn't been able to counter a single point.

I, myself have brought up matters to Haqniwaar & Crater Lake (who seem to be inner circle Qutbis), who haven't been able to answer a single question on the Forum or in PM's.

If tiny ants can kill the elephant, why does Syedna Mufaddal TUS need to bother?

Muffy couldn't counter a single argument posed to him. That's why he didn't bother. Watch out, you may get stung by your ants!

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:44 am**

Adam wrote:My guess is that KQ wasn't worth the trouble.
The Shzds and Khidmat Guzaars were enough to knock him out. As they are doing in the Courts.
There have been a few websites created in reply to KQ. KQ hasn't been able to counter a single point.

I, myself have brought up matters to Haqniwaar & Crater Lake (who seem to be inner circle Qutbis), who haven't been able to answer a single question on the Forum or in PM's.

If tiny ants can kill the elephant, why does Syedna Mufaddal TUS need to bother?

Adam as always u did not answer my question. Making it explicit here. "Can MS read Arabic texts without eraabs"

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:53 am**

Adam
If MS cannot make it for a MUBAHILA challenge, the shz can come. Now you will say, that MS said in waaz that he is sending 4 shz and SKQ refused the meeting. Well you know that is not the truth, because SKQ explicitly agreed, you can double check with your folks in Saify Mahal.

So your argument that the foot soldiers of MS i.e. khidmatguzaars and shz are enough unfortunately is full of air.

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:45 am**

I'm here.
I've asked Crater Lake and haqnidawat to prove themselves and expose Taher Qutbuddin's lies.
They can't and refuse to.

Try the ants first. Then go higher if you can.

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:12 am**

If CL and Haqnidawat dont want to expose Shz Taher bs lies. You can do it. Dont pass the buck.

Anyways you agree that MS is not willing to do MUBAHILA challenge, since you have not answered any of my questions above

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:59 am**

Adam wrote:I'm here.
I've asked Crater Lake and haqnidawat to prove themselves and expose Taher Qutbuddin's lies.
They can't and refuse to.

Try the ants first. Then go higher if you can.

First of all I am not an "inner circle Qutbi" because there is no such thing. I am an adna mumin, a dawoodi bohra, who has seen the light! I have answered every single one of your questions. In ten days of Waaz of Taher BhaiSaheb you found ONE mistake and I already told you I am cutting him slack for it. MS makes ten mistakes in ONE Waaz and you overlook! He sits next to a janaza, he says "su zaroorat che University maa jaavani" and your sisters in the professions say it does not apply to me. He suggests women who do not know how to make roti may not get shafa'at of Fatematuz Zahra and you shrug when Maa Fatema herself said that she would douse hellfire with her tears even for the worst sinners among Ali's shias.....

You questioned one fact quoted in support of one argument when you cannot refute 5 other facts he quoted in support of the same argument! That is your definition of victory? By your standards, Hungary would win the World Cup.

You only got one thing right. You are an ant.

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:20 am**

Crater Lake wrote:
Adam wrote:I'm here.
I've asked Crater Lake and haqnidawat to prove themselves and expose Taher Qutbuddin's lies.
They can't and refuse to.

Try the ants first. Then go higher if you can.

First of all I am not an "inner circle Qutbi" because there is no such thing. I am an adna mumin, a dawoodi bohra, who has seen the light! I have answered every single one of your questions. In ten days of Waaz of Taher BhaiSaheb you found ONE mistake and I already told you I am cutting him slack for it. MS makes ten mistakes in ONE Waaz and you overlook! He sits next to a janaza, he says "su zaroorat che University maa jaavani" and your sisters in the professions say it does not apply to me. He suggests women who do not know how to make roti may not get shafa'at of Fatematuz Zahra and you shrug when Maa Fatema herself said that she would douse hellfire with her tears even for the worst sinners among Ali's shias.....

You questioned one fact quoted in support of one argument when you cannot refute 5 other facts he quoted in support of the same argument! That is your definition of victory? By your standards, Hungary would win the World Cup.

You only got one thing right. You are an ant.

That's what I love about SKQ followers. No deception. Honest to goodness straight forward ness. Taher BhaiSaheb makes a mistake, you come out and admit it. It does not make his argument any less effective because he gave NUMEROUS other supporting facts that Adam cannot refute. Adam when Imam Hussain left Makkah on the day of Arafat, did it mean he did not care for Rasulullah's sunnat?

Adam we all know who dodges questions or selectively answers.....

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:39 am**

The Shzds and Khidmat Guzaars were enough to knock him out. As they are doing in the Courts.

Adam
So you do agree that Shzds and Khidmat Guzaars are goonda enough to knock people
AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID WITH THE SONS OF SKQ AT RAUDAT TAHERA

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:13 am**

@Crater Lake

I have answered every single one of your questions. In ten days of Waaz of Taher BhaiSaheb you found ONE mistake and I already told you I am cutting him slack for it.

@think_for_yourself

Taher BhaiSaheb makes a mistake, you come out and admit it.

Great. Taher made a mistake when trying to justify KQ's Janaza runway, and you have excepted that.

Let us know proceed to the next issue.

Imam Husain leaving Arafat.
think_for_yourself

Adam when Imam Hussain left Makkah on the day of Arafat, did it mean he did not care for Rasulullah's sunnat?

What has Imam Husain leaving Arafah have to do with Sunnat?
He didn't continue Haj & He performed Umrah instead. What's the issue?
This example has NO connection to KQ running away from Syedna's Janaza.

The arguments were posted this link:
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2014/11 ... anaza.html

IF KQ attened the Janaza, and prayed behind Syedna Mufaddal TUS, even from afar, he could have then used the Imam Hasan Janaza riwayat to his favour.
Unlike Imam Husain AS, who faced difficulties in the kafan and dafan, KQ locked himself up in Thane with his clan, and didn't let ANYONE go to the Janaza.

If he was petrified, what was his reason to deprive his people of the barakat?

You only got one thing right. You are an ant.

Yes. A proud ant at the feet of the Dai Haq.
Syedi Abdulqadir Hakimuddin (the esteemed Mazoon of Dawat) referred to himself in a Qasida - as the "Ant of the Sulaimani Shaan Dai".

It's better to be a humble ant than a stinging wasp or a claimant to the lofty rutba of The Dai.

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:42 am**

Yes. A proud ant at the feet of the Dai Haq.

Adam
If the Hindu judge decides that SKQ is the Dai Ul Haq, would you accept him and start sending laanats on SMS because you have already stated that the Court will decide the true Dai and that would be SMS but just in case,
It also seems that now you have put your faith in the hands of a Hindu Judge instead of an unseen Imam

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:12 am**

"Ant of the Sulaimani Shaan Dai".

I am assuming this is in reference to the incident between the ants and Sulaiman (as) as mentioned in Surah An-Naml. What is the incident? Was the ant a slave of Sulaiman? No. Infact, the ant warned its community to get out of the way of Sulaiman lest his army crush them. These kinds of references fool abdes into believing their Dai is something he is not.

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:01 pm**

Adam wrote:@Crater Lake

I have answered every single one of your questions. In ten days of Waaz of Taher BhaiSaheb you found ONE mistake and I already told you I am cutting him slack for it.

@think_for_yourself

Taher BhaiSaheb makes a mistake, you come out and admit it.

Great. Taher made a mistake when trying to justify KQ's Janaza runway, and you have excepted that.

We absolutely do. Because the other supporting facts still hold. Muffy first thumped the table and said "su zaroorat che University ma java ni?" and then retracted, created sappy back pedalling videos saying how important education is for women - which we already knew, bumbled retractions etc. etc. etc. You forgave him that mistake and you believe he is a "dai" and infallible!! We see it as damage control by his cronies. Cronies constantly trying to pull his foot out of his mouth.

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:59 pm**

I think an important distinction here is also the fact that Taher B Saheb is not saying he is Dai but SMS is the Dai.. Whose mistake is easier to overlook?

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:20 pm**

So Adam asked me on PM what questions he would like me to answer. I told him I would like him to address why Moiz Bhaisaheb needed to lie in the nass drama of Rauzat Tahera about what it was Aqa Moula had said. I got stunned silence! I pointed out that MS was present when Moiz bhaisab conveyed that Aqa Moula's recitation of Ya Sayyedas Shohadai was in fact a reiteration of Nass. MS' silence during this lie makes him complicit in the spreading of it. I got stunned silence from Adam. He has bothered to respond on the forum but his bravado in asking "what can I answer for you?" has disappeared. Don't bother PMing me again Adam. My characterization of you was exactly right. You are an empty vessel and you do not have any answers to real questions.

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:52 pm**

You're on fire Crater Lake. BTW are you Crater Lake because still waters run deep?

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:14 pm**

Adam wrote:My guess is that KQ wasn't worth the trouble.
The Shzds and Khidmat Guzaars were enough to knock him out. As they are doing in the Courts.
There have been a few websites created in reply to KQ. KQ hasn't been able to counter a single point.

I, myself have brought up matters to Haqniwaar & Crater Lake (who seem to be inner circle Qutbis), who haven't been able to answer a single question on the Forum or in PM's.

If tiny ants can kill the elephant, why does Syedna Mufaddal TUS need to bother?

MS and co are fake, they can't face the truth, that's the reason he won't come in front of KQ. He is hiding and running from KQ. Shz and mullahs are going to courts because of money. The whole dawat's agenda is to extract money from the zombie followers in the name of religion and use that looted money for the welfare and luxuries of their own friends & relatives aka kothar, bait-zaini and qare ali. There are several other factions of Bohras and all split because of money and power - the religion almost remains the same in all the factions with only minor changes.

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:49 pm**

UnhappyBohra wrote:You're on fire Crater Lake. BTW are you Crater Lake because still waters run deep?

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:04 pm**

Adam wrote:@Crater Lake

I have answered every single one of your questions. In ten days of Waaz of Taher BhaiSaheb you found ONE mistake and I already told you I am cutting him slack for it.

@think_for_yourself

Taher BhaiSaheb makes a mistake, you come out and admit it.

Great. Taher made a mistake when trying to justify KQ's Janaza runway, and you have excepted that.

Let us know proceed to the next issue.

Imam Husain leaving Arafat.
think_for_yourself

Adam when Imam Hussain left Makkah on the day of Arafat, did it mean he did not care for Rasulullah's sunnat?

What has Imam Husain leaving Arafah have to do with Sunnat?
He didn't continue Haj & He performed Umrah instead. What's the issue?
This example has NO connection to KQ running away from Syedna's Janaza.

The arguments were posted this link:
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2014/11 ... anaza.html

IF KQ attened the Janaza, and prayed behind Syedna Mufaddal TUS, even from afar, he could have then used the Imam Hasan Janaza riwayat to his favour.
Unlike Imam Husain AS, who faced difficulties in the kafan and dafan, KQ locked himself up in Thane with his clan, and didn't let ANYONE go to the Janaza.

If he was petrified, what was his reason to deprive his people of the barakat?

You only got one thing right. You are an ant.

Yes. A proud ant at the feet of the Dai Haq.
Syedi Abdulqadir Hakimuddin (the esteemed Mazoon of Dawat) referred to himself in a Qasida - as the "Ant of the Sulaimani Shaan Dai".

It's better to be a humble ant than a stinging wasp or a claimant to the lofty rutba of The Dai.

Mr. Adam
for me hajj is more important than syedna's janaza....hajj is a pillar of islam and the single most important thing for muslims, who knows about the life hereafter.
So the arguement is that Hajj is above the holiness of Imam Hussain (AS) and Imam Hussain (AS) had to part ways to save Islam so that hajj could be done by millions of people in future and that is what we are witnessing in today's age and time.

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:08 pm**

Adam wrote: What has Imam Husain leaving Arafah have to do with Sunnat?
He didn't continue Haj & He performed Umrah instead. What's the issue?
This example has NO connection to KQ running away from Syedna's Janaza.

This is exactly how the abdes and their masters cherry pick hadiths and historical events to further their nefarious designs and fool abdes. The same incident would have been used vehemently had it served their hidden agenda.

Posted: **Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:41 am**

I have a question for the Syedna Muffadal Saifuddin (SMS) abdes.

It is claimed that the NASS was done to SMS some 47 years back. That means in private (known or unknown to SMS) nass was done on him, which means at least SMB knew that SMS would be the future dai. Way after that, at least publicly and privately they (SMS and others) used to do sajda to the Mazoom and sit below him in waiz and other gatherings. And also pray behind him. [As recently as in Ahmedabad about 5-10 years back, assuming Fatimi Dawat is accurate.]

In our very heriacrchy minded community, is it allowed for a future dai to pray behind somebody else who will be lower in tarteeb then him? This is just a simple honest question, nothing else?

And can they address him as Maula and call themselves his gulam?

Posted: **Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:19 am**

dal-chaval-palidu wrote:I have a question for the Syedna Muffadal Saifuddin (SMS) abdes.

It is claimed that the NASS was done to SMS some 47 years back. That means in private (known or unknown to SMS) nass was done on him, which means at least SMB knew that SMS would be the future dai. Way after that, at least publicly and privately they (SMS and others) used to do sajda to the Mazoom and sit below him in waiz and other gatherings. And also pray behind him. [As recently as in Ahmedabad about 5-10 years back, assuming Fatimi Dawat is accurate.]

In our very heriacrchy minded community, is it allowed for a future dai to pray behind somebody else who will be lower in tarteeb then him? This is just a simple honest question, nothing else?

And can they address him as Maula and call themselves his gulam?

Mansoos is not above in tarteeb to Mazoon and Mukasir. Once he becomes Dai then of course he is above them. That is why his name is not included in the Misaq. However, here is the issue with the SMS gang. They say Mansoos is above in tarteeb to Mazoon and Mukasir. If so, then DCP you are correct. How come do all these activities behind someone who is lower to you in rank. But wait here is another twist. The rationale for doing this was that his Mansoosiat had not been disclosed hence he was offering namaz behind SKQ !!

Sir sub aik doosray ko topi pehna rahe hain !!

Posted: **Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:13 pm**

@Crater Lake

So Adam asked me on PM what questions he would like me to answer. I told him I would like him to address why Moiz Bhaisaheb needed to lie in the nass drama of Rauzat Tahera about what it was Aqa Moula had said. I got stunned silence!

Wow.
I didn't know I was missed so much. I'm flattered

I apologies for the delay, as I just checked my inbox. Unlike some of the people on this Forum, and those of you in Thane & Bakersfield, I do have a life

I will reply to you shortly. Please check your PM.

Posted: **Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:34 pm**

@Crater Lake
When referring to accepting Taher's mistake about Imam Mansoor, you said:

We absolutely do.

Great. Before I move on. It should be noted that this particular example, wasn't just some bayaan Taher was referring to in his waaz.
He actually brought this zikr up to justify KQ's running away from the Janaza (although this zikr had nothing to do with running away from a Janaza).
Taher brings up this zikr, starts adding masala to the story saying, "he was away", then "he got a letter", he decided to stay back "for the protection and khidmat of dawat" etc etc.
So it's actually lies within lies, and he keeps going on adding to this false story, when none of the above happened. It reminds me of old aunties who hear a part of a story and end up adding so much to it that the original story is forgotten!
This reflects the strength of his argument, plus his devious or desperate measures to prove KQ's stance. In turn, by you accepting his mistake, makes his and KQ's position much weaker. (After all, Taher is rumoured to be the next Qutbi Dai)

"su zaroorat che University ma java ni?"

Can you provide me a reference for this statement?

I think an important distinction here is also the fact that Taher B Saheb is not saying he is Dai

Yes. As mentioned above, he is infact trying to justify his DAI's position by giving wrong information. That's is a hideous crime.

This is exactly how the abdes and their masters cherry pick hadiths and historical events to further their nefarious designs and fool abdes. The same incident would have been used vehemently had it served their hidden agenda.

That is your opinion.
So why don't you come out in the open and say the same for the Qutbi's? Because they ARE cherry picking arguments.

In our very heriacrchy minded community, is it allowed for a future dai to pray behind somebody else who will be lower in tarteeb then him? This is just a simple honest question, nothing else?

Yes. It has happened MANY times in the past. The Mansoos has been unknown to many Hudood, and many have sat above them in Tarteeb.
For example, during the 50th Dai Syedna Abdullah Badruddin's time, the Mazoon was Syedi Dawood BS, but the Mansoos was Syedna Taher Saifuddin. So up until Syedna Abdullah informed Syedna Taher Saifuddin and the other Hudood, Syedi Dawood Bs would sat above him.
This has happened many times.

Mansoos is not above in tarteeb to Mazoon and Mukasir.

Of course he his.
The Dai is the Dai Mutlaq. The Mansoos is the Dai Mahsoor. And the Mazoon is the Mazoon Mutlaq.
The Mansoos is your future Dai Mutlaq to be.

Posted: **Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:41 pm**

Adam wrote:@Crater Lake
So Adam asked me on PM what questions he would like me to answer. I told him I would like him to address why Moiz Bhaisaheb needed to lie in the nass drama of Rauzat Tahera about what it was Aqa Moula had said. I got stunned silence!
Wow.
I didn't know I was missed so much. I'm flattered
I apologies for the delay, as I just checked my inbox. Unlike some of the people on this Forum, and those of you in Thane & Bakersfield, I do have a life
I will reply to you shortly. Please check your PM.

In your PM you do not address my question but you called me "Baby" and said you had expected a harder question. Well Adam Baby, why don't you answer this simple question first before you tackle the hard stuff. Why did Moiz Bhaisaheb lie. Why did Mufaddal Bhaisaheb condone this lie with his silence?!

Posted: **Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:56 pm**

Incidently, while you were "living your life," you were replying to other stuff here on the forum. I correctly surmised that you cannot and will not be able to justify Moiz bhaisab's bold faced lie and the complicit nature of MS's silence.

Posted: **Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:14 pm**

It is a delusional belief that Crater Lake (and group) and many of us hold on to that we continue to expect real responses from Adam (and group) in any of this. Adam (and group)e has as his role models Mufaddal BS who didn't respond to Mazoon of Syedna Burhanuddin's letter after wafaat, as also Naama and Arefa who cannot even say and answer simple question of who is Mazoon Saheb's name whom they take in Misaaq. When confronted with bottomline questions, they avoid, run, that is after attempts at derailment fail, and when all else really fails for them, the all-powerful laanut preserves their ego.

This whole underground haqiqat kitaab sabaks (of which I have partaken as well) has been so slowly poisoned with interpretations to suit the politics and greed of the qasre aali family, that hey, those of you folks who still believe they have missed out on something, I have news for you:
The Emperor (haqiqat bayaans of modern day era) has no clothes.
Don't worry, be happy, Islam and Imaan is very simple. Haq and the truth is very simple. Keep your focus on Allah Almighty, Tawakalto al-Allah. Your common sense and capacity for judgement (ikhtiyaar) never leaves you.

Posted: **Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:29 pm**

^^^ You are absolutely right. According to Adam I have no respect for the Dai's hazrat because I called the costumed baffoons standing behind him "clowns." How much respect did Moiz bhaisaheb feel for our Moula when he stood in front of him and LIED about what Moula had just said? How much respect did MS feel when he stood by and let him utter that bold faced lie. Could it be that he let him lie because it served his interest in being annointed as "dai"....hmmmm...I wonder. Please don't try to teach me respect for Dai Adam. I have more respect for Burhanuddin Moula than MS does or you do because I do not believe people who lie in standing in front of him! Someone who had respect for Moula would have stepped in and corrected the man.

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