Dawoodi Bohra Forum

There is a famous diktat from SMS not to go to courts for disputes, and instead refer to local amils for resolutions between the warring parties. below is one case for discussion.

In a remote town in Rajasthan, one Girl Ms. B was arranged marriage to Mr. H from Maharashtra, the couple shared a dull relationship, Ms. B is a active and chirpy person, she took all the efforts, approaches and initiatives to bring spice and fun to the relationship. Mr. H turned out to be too boring, passive and self centered in the relationship. Apart from dullness in the relationship, there were concerns on finances, she was restricted by In-Laws from venturing out alone, no pocket money was given to her for personal expenses, demands were questioned and bare minimums were provided, privacy was denied by in-laws and agreed upon by Mr. H. Upon such frustrating restrictions and way of life, she proposed to work, she was restricted to that as well.

Helplessly caged, she complained about such restrictions, in the conservative society these were some what common practices under some disguise of safety and care. however some well wishers advised to remain patient and work out with time .. meanwhile Ms. B conceived and out of tradition traveled to her maternal house for delivery. During her entire pregnancy to birth, Mr. H did not provide any money. Ms. B delivered a baby girl and returned to her In-laws with hope of improved life.

Situation got worse, she faced more difficult times as In-laws and Mr. H would not cooperate with her demands and refuse to provide necessities required for baby and nursing mother. small example; in hot summers, they refused to install an Air Conditioner or Cooler for comfort of the child or family, reluctant to bring diapers etc.

Frustration grew, she confronted the family for facilities and provisions, when her pleas fell on deaf ears she walked out of the relationship and returned to her maternal home with the baby girl. hoping that such step would be helpful to have a serious dialogue and correct the situations. her demands were rejected and family did not budge from their miserly attitude.

Finally, they mutually agreed to divorce. case went to local amil of that town in rajasthan for settlement. Amil proposed to Mr. H to provide sustenance of the baby girl until age of 7 while she stays with the mother and after 7 years he can take custody of the daughter. Amil mentioned that it is father's right and power to keep the custody of the child / children. Only because daughter is too young and requires unavoidable motherly care daughter to remain with mother and sustenance to be provided for by the father.

To this proposed judgement, Mr. H flately refused and requested for a complete divorce without and baggage or compensation to be paid. while Ms. B never wanted to give up on the daughter although she expected the sustenance support from the father, but seeing the attitude she did not care to enforce.

Amil granted the divorce and couple stands seperated.

My queries are :

How fare is this judgement to the wife and mother and daughter ?

Why was Mr. H the Husband and Father not held liable for failure of this marriage and refuse to honor the responsibility ?

In islam, does fathers have unchallenged custody of children in cases of divorce ?

This case must be looked up on from the perspective of, the modern social structure, Indian laws and comman sense. One can not and should not go by Islam Fatwas laid down centuries ago. By the way how many things you do is Islamic? The child should be allowed to access to both the parents. I know examples, where mothers do not see the child when taken away for ever. Traumatic for the child, indeed. All the rules are staked against the female in Islam. However, we are led to believe something else. It is a Man's world. The divorced lady should see a social service person and a Human Rights person.

I think SKQ daughter Arwa should have gone to this AAMIL so he would have left the kids with mother too.

Do you have the other side of the story?

By the way Amils or totally incompetent to handle this. He being a man will side with men.

STS fought 100s of cases including to justify Barat in the Supreme Court.
SMB has numerous court cases.
SMS is fighting with his uncle. He could have reached an out of court settlement. SKQ had invited him for a Mukabla. It is always fool every one all the time. Hame Kaheye te karo, hame karya te na karo. Shame on us that we have followed these Dais for 150 years.

For legitimate relief, the spouse needs to approach the court of law because the Amils are dumb and illiterate who can be easily influenced with money and this is exactly what must have happened in this case like many other cases in Bohra community.

humanbeing wrote:How fare is this judgement to the wife and mother and daughter ?

It is an unfair and a biased judgement in favour of the husband.

humanbeing wrote:Why was Mr. H the Husband and Father not held liable for failure of this marriage and refuse to honor the responsibility ?

Because he must have heavily bribed the Amil or pulled strings at the right places.

humanbeing wrote:In islam, does fathers have unchallenged custody of children in cases of divorce ?

We are governed by the Muslim Personal Law and accordingly the child's custody goes to the father after the child reaches the age of 7.

ghulam muhammed wrote:For legitimate relief, the spouse needs to approach the court of law because the Amils are dumb and illiterate who can be easily influenced with money and this is exactly what must have happened in this case like many other cases in Bohra community.

humanbeing wrote:In islam, does fathers have unchallenged custody of children in cases of divorce ?

We are governed by the Muslim Personal Law and accordingly the child's custody goes to the father after the child reaches the age of 7.

Do Indian courts always go by the Muslim Personal Law for all Muslims, or, do they modify their judgements in many cases?

WYP wrote:Do you have the other side of the story?

Do you mean the story of Mr. H ?

He has two shops, seemingly well to do family .. but thoroughly miser family .. first wife eloped out of marriage .. as far as I know .. this man seems to be boring, disinterested, selfish, self centered, money minded miser.

He did not provide any sustenance to mother and child, he did not agree to amend his ways .. .. life would continue the way it was .. would not fulfill those silly yet basic demands. He flately refused to pay sustenance and keep custody of daughter thereafter. he wanted divorce without any responsibility and baggage. Most likely he would go ahead any marry for the third time ..

I am wondering .. what is AMIL's point of view on this .. how could he let go this guy without any obligations .. he must be equally responsible for the child and loss suffered by Ms. B

Custody dispute mediation is a professional field, not for the faint of heart, and definitely not for amateurs. Amils and religious leaders do more harm than good, add fuel to the fire, or disenfranchise and alienate one parent over the other, not always due to bias, or religious dictum, but even when you take bias against women out, the nature of conflict and dynamics are too hairy for even the courts to come up with solutions for people to resolve family disputes.

Our own Muffy himself has done tremendous harm to many many marriages and families due to his careless dictums and commands, even before he became claimant to the 53rd dai. Salehbhai Saheb Safiyuddin, Mukasir-e-dawat was the only person who came really close to understanding complexities of "tallaak" cases and using a more wisdom-oriented approach to dealing with fighting spouses. But of course, he is no more, and he didn't really pass on the baton to others either.

So yes, people are going to have to realize that Amils and Kothaar is the least helpful resource, especially if the conflicts are more intense. Seen too many friends and relative undergo separations/divorce and witnessed childish, bandaid approaches by Badri Mahal to fixing complicated marital and family problems.

"Getting to Yes" is a good classic book(from the Harvard Negotiation team - author is Roger Ury, I think) for Amils to read if they want to have better tools to "help" people. Definitely good for Badri Mahal library.