Quran explains itself.....by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed.

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Muddai
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Re: Quran explains itself.....by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed.

#2

Unread post by Muddai » Sun Jun 08, 2003 1:20 am

HOW, THEN, DO THE OTHERS CONTINUE TO MAKE PROGRESS?
Naturally, a very important question arises here. In the last several centuries, the West and some other non-Muslim countries have been making spellbinding advances in education, science and technology and in their governmental systems without the Qur'an! The short answer is that they have been making great use of their human faculties of reasoning and intellectual inquiry.
DUH ! I missed that one ! Silly me....Quran does really explain itself !

Appreciate the post....Thank You Thank You Thank You ! Time to make use of my human faculties of reasoning and intellectual inquiry.

...but wait a minute...where does that leave the Quran ?

Danish, need your help here....please be specific

anajmi
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Re: Quran explains itself.....by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed.

#3

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Jun 08, 2003 2:39 am

yeah like the reasoning given by the west about the hoardes of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq!! Good use of their intellect.

Like the reasoining given by the west after the world war 2 for the creation of Israel. I am sure that had something to do with intellect and nothing to do with religion.

Like the reasoning given by the jews in expanding the state of israel by making more and more palestinians refugees. I am sure that had something to do with intellect!!

If the America were to waste 50% of what they waste today in terms of resources, half the world would be developed. Good use of their intellect.

The most powerful country in the world today is the most insecure country in the world today. A fire cracker on the streets changes colors from yellow to orange. Good use of their intellect.

Read some history and you will find examples of intellect used by the muslims all over. The state of the muslims today has nothing to do with the quran, but intellects like you will not understand. Time to make use of your human faculties of reasoning and intellectual inquiry!!

Muddai
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Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Quran explains itself.....by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed.

#4

Unread post by Muddai » Sun Jun 08, 2003 11:51 pm

The age old Muslims are victims argument, we don't control our destiny,, it is all Israels fault {refer to your Hadiths and do something about it, you guys surround the country} .

Read some history and you will find examples of intellect used by the muslims all over.

Well then, be specific and cite some examples.

Oh well....this is futile.

anajmi
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Quran explains itself.....by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed.

#5

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Jun 08, 2003 11:58 pm

Yep, it is futile.

It is prophecy dear boy that everything is/will be the fault of the jews.

As far as an example goes, consider me to be one.

Muddai
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Re: Quran explains itself.....by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed.

#6

Unread post by Muddai » Mon Jun 09, 2003 1:18 am

As far as an example goes, consider me to be one.

Yeah, I know it and that's what's really scary.

Danish
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Re: Quran explains itself.....by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed.

#7

Unread post by Danish » Mon Jun 09, 2003 4:44 am

Dear Muddai and all of "you",
...but wait a minute...where does that leave the Quran ?
It is not the Quran that has left you, it is "you" who left the Quran.

[6:93] Who is more evil than one who fabricates lies and attributes them to GOD, or says, "I have received divine inspiration," when no such inspiration was given to him, or says, "I can write the same as GOD's revelations?" If only you could see the transgressors at the time of death! The angels extend their hands to them, saying, "Let go of your souls. Today, you have incurred a shameful retribution for saying about GOD other than the truth, and for being too arrogant to accept His revelations. [6:94] "You have come back to us as individuals, just as we created you the first time, and you have left behind what we provided for you. We do not see with you the intercessors that you idolized and claimed that they will help you. All ties among you have been severed; the idols you set up have abandoned you."

[8:47] Do not be like those who left their homes grudgingly, only to show off, and in fact discouraged others from following the path of GOD. GOD is fully aware of everything they do.

[9:127] Whenever a sura was revealed, some of them would look at each other as if to say: "Does anyone see you?" Then they left. Thus, GOD has diverted their hearts, for they are people who do not comprehend.

[29:2] Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe," without being put to the test?
[29:3] We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.

[25:30] The messenger said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."

By reading the Quran again and again and again while submitting and repenting for your sins to GOD Alone and asking for HIS mercy and guidance, I can only assure you by GOD's Will, that if you are truely sincere at heart, you will surely find your answers to the questions that you want to seek, without asking me or anyone else.

GOD, there is no god but GOD. HE has no partners and none equals HIM. Be HE glorified.

Muddai
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Quran explains itself.....by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed.

#8

Unread post by Muddai » Mon Jun 09, 2003 11:49 pm

Danish,

reading the Quran again and again and again

How about reading it just once and simply[ B]understanding[/B] it ? Not that I claim to....

Just wondering why repitition is necessary unless the act of reading it is more important than understanding it ? ...or perhaps it is so confusing that it takes a while before you get it {?}, or is it because people have selective amnesia and they feel good about reading it again and again and again but only following what is convenient {?} or in some cases maybe even violent {?}

Since a bulk of Muslims read it without knowing Arabic what would you suggest ? Still read it again and again and again ?

What if I coincidentally stumble upon a lifestyle completely compliant with the Quran ? Am I still an "infidel" because I haven't read it, let alone <I>again and again and again </I> ?

What if one reads it again and again and again , but doesn't arrive at the same conclusion / interpretation as you ? Is he a non-Muslim infidel ?

Dilber
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Quran explains itself.....by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed.

#9

Unread post by Dilber » Tue Jun 10, 2003 11:51 am

reading the Quran again and again and again

Beauty can only be experienced , it can never be sufficinetly described in words.

It is a matter of heart and not everyone is made to appreciate beauty, it requires a taste and a heart. Those who fall in love of it, read it again and again and again and again and again........even after they have memorized all of it, they still read it again and again and again......such is the beauty.
PEACE

Danish
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Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Quran explains itself.....by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed.

#10

Unread post by Danish » Tue Jun 10, 2003 9:28 pm

Beauty can only be experienced , it can never be sufficinetly described in words.
Absolutely for those who can understand it. That is why GOD says in the Quran:
[16:78] GOD brought you out of your mothers' bellies knowing nothing, and He gave you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brains, that you may be appreciative. [16:79] Do they not see the birds committed to fly in the atmosphere of the sky? None holds them up in the air except GOD. This should be (sufficient) proof for people who believe.

[16:83] They fully recognize GOD's blessings, then deny them; the majority of them are disbelievers.

The Quran doesn't end here. Its a human trait that one will appreaciate the words inside the Quran and envisage the beauty of the words outside the Quran today or perhaps once, and forget about it tomorrow. That's why in order to appreciate the "beauty of life", one must read the Quran again and again and again to appreciate it, otherwise the verse 16:83 would have no bearing.

There are "infinite beauties" that surrounds you, without the need of Quran, only if one can truely grasp and appreciate it, if they have the brains, eyes and hearing to do so. Unfortunately the majority of mankind don't and that's why they need the Quran to appreciate the beauty that surrounds them. Quran is a divine book and everthing within it lies outside of it and beyond.

GOD, there is no god but GOD. HE has no partners and none equals HIM. Be HE Glorified.