Dawoodi Bohra Forum

salam all,
People here on this forum are followers of Mr. Asger Ali Engineer....who is he?? where is he leading reform movement??

Asger Ali Enginner a media stereotype self claimed reformist has been involved in numerous nefarious activites. Pursuing Marxism for years Engineer has on numerous counts been indicted by the law for creating and encouraging disharmony within society.
Excommunicated from the close-knit Dawoodi Bohra community, Engineer has since the last three decades unsuccessfully been involved in so called reformist movment.

Influenced by his Marxist ideologies,Engineer has since years rejected religion. However as to procure publicity and mollah, the social discard has successfully stereotyped himself in the media as an Islamic scholar.His Islamic background has largely been helpful in misleading the media and projecting himself as an Muslim social acivist.

Muslim scholars were agust when Enginner calaimed to reinterpret the Holy Quran a few years back.

Presently under the guise of Social activist, reformist, and to the extend even claimed to be a social scientist, Engineer, monetarily supported by communist forces runs a duboius institute clamining to pursue social and seclar studies.

However not only the community which excommunicated him but Muslims in general regard his views on Islam as absurd. A few examples are his declaraton of the sacred stone placed at the Kabbah, the Hajae-e-Aswad as a mere stone and declared that Allah, the god of Islam has based the religion of Islam on human weakness.

ridiculous n unbelievable too..

w.salam kh

May allah show u right direction n right path.

sincerely,
way2heaven

way2AbdeMoron,

No one on this site follows Mr. Engineer. For the people on this board, more important than following Mr. Engineer is to expose the corrupt dai, the corrupt kothar and the foolish abde morons.

Now that is what we call REFORM.

Like Mr.Engineer, almost majority of the Bohra`s new generation is stepping towards the reforming activities, this is due to the corruptness of Dai and his crew, now even kutter bohras are also whispering about the attitude of the kohtaris, the way they treated the innocent bohris is shameless.
Whether in the days of MoharramulHarram, or Ramzan, Eidul Fitr or Eidul Adha, Lailatul Qadr or Milad Mubarak of Nabi Saheb, in each and every mosque of bohras you will find every Aamil singing the Geet of Syedna because syedna is more important than Imam Hussain, Syedna is more important than Nabi e Akhrat, Syedna is more important than Shauda e Karbala
"MATAM KARO TO AIWOO KARO KAY MAULA KHOOSH THAY JAI"
This is the sentence used by aamil saheb most often.
These are the such things which create reforms in the mind of educated bohras, so I think if Mr. Engineer is awakening the innocent bohras for reforms, then he is doing the right thing.

Dear way2heaven: The issue of the reform movement has been discussed and debated extensively on this forum. Unfortunately these discussions happened before you made your appearance. So instead of starting all over again please do all of us a favor and find out more about the reform movement yourself by perusing old posts on the message board. That way you will be able to contribute constructively rather than make vague accusations on subjects you know nothing about.

Your characterization of people on this forum as "followers of Mr. Asger Ali Engineer" is incorrect, though understandable. Incorrect, as reformists do not "follow" him as the bohras follow the da'i and certainly, on this forum there are orthodox bohra's like you who do not "follow" him. Your characterization is understandable because, due to your own upbringing as a bohra, you feel that everyone must have someone to follow, in whom one has absolute faith and trust. Unfortunately that is not true of most reformists. Most people in the reform movement try to think for themselves getting expert opinion when needed. What Dr. Engineer does is elucidate (in his writings) some aspects of Islam and specially its application to modern society. However, his opinions are not the dogma of the reformists. One is free not to agree with him. He and other fellow reformists like Dr. Hamdani and Dr. Poonawala have done, among other things, much to bring Fatemi literature and history to a larger audience (which also includes most bohras).

Can you be more specific when Dr. Engineer has fomented trouble on communal lines? I presume that you feel that he "encourages disharmony within society" because he challenges the current dawaat administration, asking for more transparency, autonomy or for non-interference in secular matters. For reform to happen people need to first point out the deficiency of an existing system, even if that means causing discomfort to the establishment.

The last lines of your post seem to give the impression that you yourself feel that the charges you made against Dr. Engineer are "ridiculous n unbelievable too..". If you meant that please forgive me for thinking that you were trying to ridicule Dr. Engineer. If that is not what you meant it may be advisable to write a bit more clearly so that we know precisely what you are trying to convey.

To Way2heaven: rather uneducated and brain-washed !

1. If what you are saying that Dr. Engineer is a Marxist or he is a Quran revisionist, is true, then why would the whole world invite him as an Islamic Scholar to talk on Islam. He has called worse by better people than you.

2. What has Dr. Asghar done for the Humanity?

Asghar Ali Engineer is a rights activist and heads the two organisations, Institute of Islamic Studies and Centre for Study of Society and Secularism. He has authored or edited 48 books on such issues as Islam and communal and ethnic problems in India and South Asia in general.

Some of the books written by Dr. Asghar Engineer:

http://www.csss-isla.com/booklist/asghar_list.php

Books written and edited by Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer
No. Book Year Publisher Price
1. The Bohras (revised edition) 1980 Vikas Publishing House, N-Delhi Rs.125/-
2. Communal Violence in Post-Independence India 1984 Orient Longman, Mumbai Rs.125/-
3. Islam & It's Relevance to Our Age 1984 I.I.S., Mumbai Rs.40/-
4. Bhivandi Bombay Riots (out of print) 1984 I.I.S., Mumbai Rs.50/-
5. On Developing Theory of Communal Riots 1984 C.S.S.S., Mumbai Rs.15/-
6. Indian Muslims a Study of Minority Problem 1984 Ajanta Books, Delhi Rs.150/-
7. Islam & Muslim-Critical Perspectives 1985 Rupa Books, Jaipur Rs.195/-
8. Islam South & South East Asia (ED.) 1985 Ajanta Books, Delhi Rs.100/-
9. Communalism and Communal Problem in India 1985 Ajanta Books, Delhi Rs.100/-
10. Communalism and Communal Violence 1985 Ajanta Books, Delhi Rs.250/-
11. The Shah Banu Controversy 1986 Orient Longman, Mumbai Rs.165/-
12. Struggles for Reforms in Bohra Community 1986 I.I.S., Mumbai Rs.60/-
13. Ethnic Conflict in South Asia 1987 Ajanta Books, Delhi Rs.125/-
14. Status of Women in Islam (ED.) 1987 Ajanta Books, Delhi Rs.60/-
15. Delhi Meerut Riots 1988 Ajanta Books, Delhi Rs.150/-
16. The Muslim Communities of Gujarat The Bohras, Khojas & Memons 1989 Ajanta Books, Delhi Rs.200/-
17. Religion & Liberation 1989 Ajanta Books, Delhi Rs.325/-
18. Justice, Women & Communal Harmony in Islam 1989 ICSSR, New Delhi

19. Liberation Theology in Islam 1990 Sterling Publishers, Delhi Rs.225/-
20. Babri Masjid Ram Janmabhoomi Controversy 1990 Ajanta Books, Delhi Rs.175/-
21. Sufism & Communal Harmony 1991 Rupa Books, Jaipur Rs.200/-
22. Secular Crown on Fire (Kashmir Problem) 1991 Ajanta Books, Delhi Rs.325/-
23. Mandal Commission Controversy 1991 Ajanta Books, Delhi Rs.310/-
24. Communalisation of Politics & 10th Loksabha Elections 1991 Ajanta Books, Delhi Rs.395/-
25. Politics of Confrontation (ED.) the Babri Masjid Ramjanmabhoomi Controversy Runs Riots
26. Communal Riots in Post Independence India 1991 Sangam Books Rs.135/-
27. Origin and Development of Islam 1992 Orient Longman, Mumbai Rs.165/-
28. Rights of Women in Islam 1992 Sterling Publishers, Delhi Rs.200/-
29. The Islamic State (revised edition) 1994 Vikas Publishing House, N-Delhi Rs.85/-
30. Islam & Revolution(ED.) 1994 Ajanta Books, Delhi Rs.150/-
31. Problem of Muslim Women in India 1994 Orient Longman, Mumbai Rs.250/-
32. Lifting the Veil Communal Violence and Communal, Harmony in Contemporary India 1994 Orient Longman, Mumbai Rs.325/-
33. Kerala Muslims In Historical Perspective 1995 Ajanta Books, Delhi

34. Communalism In India - A Historical and Empirical Study 1995 Vikas publishing House, N-Delhi

35. Gandhiji & Communal Harmony (ED.) 1997 Gandhi Peace Foundation Rs.355/-
36. Rethinking Issues in Islam 1998 Orient Longman, Mumbai Rs.200/-
37. State Secularism and Religion 1998 Ajanta Books, Delhi Rs.350/-
38. The Qur'an Women and Modern Society 1999 Sterling publishers, Delhi Rs.400/-
39. Contemporary Politics of Identity, Religion and Secularism 1999 Ajanta Publication, New Delhi Rs.350/-
40. Rational Approach to Islam 2000 Gyan Publishers, Delhi Rs.500/-
41. Islam, Women and Gender Justice 2001 Gyan Publishers, Delhi Rs.590/-
42. Islam in India - The Impact of Civilizations (ED) 2002 Shipra Publication, New Delhi Rs.295/-
43. Communal Challenge and Secular Response 2003 Shipra Publication, New Delhi Rs.550/-
44. On Developing Theology of Peace in Islam 2003 Sterling Publishers Private Limited, New Delhi Rs.400/-
45. The Gujarat Carnage 2003 Orient Longman Private Limited, New Delhi Rs.425/-
46. Communal Riots After Independence - A Comprehensive Account 2003 Shipra Publications, New Delhi Rs.550/- or US$40
47. The Rights of women in Islam 2004 Sterling Publishers Pvt. Ltd.,New Dehli Rs.500/- US$ 24.95
48. Islam - Challenges in 21st Century 2004 Gyan Publishing House, New Dehli Rs.540/-
48. The Qur'an, Women and Modern Society - second edition 2005 Sterling Publishers Pvt. Ltd., New Delhi Rs.500/-

Institute of Islamic Studies,
9B, Himalya Apts,
1st Floor, 6th Rd,
Santacruz (E), Mumbai:- 400 055.
India. Centre for Study of Society and Secularism,
Irene Cottage, Second Floor,
4th Road, Santacruz (E),
Mumbai:- 400 055, Ph:- 91-22-6149668, 6153489.
India.

2. www.rightlivelihood.org/ recip/2004/asghar-ali-engineer.htm

He won the 2004 The Right Livelihood Award " - an alternative Nobel Prize by the ...for strong commitment and cooperation over many years to promote the values of co-existence, tolerance and understanding in India and between the countries of South Asia"

The annual Right Livelihood Awards, was presented on December 9 in the Swedish Parliament, was given in recognition of dedicated work at community level in development, human rights, ecology, renewable energy and gender empowerment.

3. Some of the lectures, papers he has presented and worshops attended internationally are as follows:

- Women in Islam - What Identites? Whose Interest?
Joint effort with the Women's Development Collective (WDC)
Speaker: Asghar Ali Engineer, CSSS, India; Budi Munawar Rahman, Paramadina, Indonesia; and; Neelam Hussain, Simourgh, Pakistan
27 October 2002

- In May 2004,
Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer was invited to Oxford & Coventry Universities for an international seminar on 'Religious Violence in South Asia', held on 26th March 2004.

He spoke on Communal Carnage in Gujarat in 2002. His presentation on Gujarat violence was greatly appreciated by scholars working in this area. Prof. Paul Brass from USA who works on communal violence in India, showed particular appreciation for Dr. Engineer's presentation.

Taking advantage of Dr. Engineer's presence in UK, number of organisation in London and Birmingham organised his lectures.

The Department of Human Rights, East London University, London organised his lecture on 25th March on 'Interpreting Islamic Human Rights in the contemporary context'. Large number of professors and senior students studying Islam and Human Rights attended the lectures and Prof. Siraj Sait, teaching human rights conducted the program. The lecture removed many misconceptions about Human Rights and Islam.

On this occasion Dr. Engineer's second edition of the book Rights of Women in Islam was released. Dr. Engineer's threw light on rights of women in Islam as a part of human rights.

On 26th evening Mr. Engineer was invited by London Circle - an organisation of Muslims of all nationalities in London, to speak on 'Gender dynamics of Shariah Law'. Large number of Muslim women also attended this lecture, which was convened by Mr. Asim Siddiqui, Chairman, London Circle. Most of the audiences were from Arab Countries.

On 27th March, Dr. Engineer was invited to give a lecture on Islam, Democracy and the Shariah Law, by an organisation called Islam21. It was presided over by Mr. Najah Kadhim, A Professor of Economic from Iraq and was convened by Dr. Ghiyasuddin Siddiqui. The lecture was held at Muslim Cultural Heritage Center, London.

On 25th March, Dr. Engineer had to deliver two lectures in Birmingham, one organised by Birmingham Circle by Prof. Aquil Chaudhary. He spoke on Islam and Dilemmas of Modernity.

In the evening he spoke in a meeting organised by South Asians living in Birmingham and Leicester. The lecture was organised by Ms Haki Kapasi. Mr. Fazal Husain Kapasi leader of the reformist Bohras in UK also took part in the meeting. Mr. Engineer stayed with him and discussed about the forthcoming reformist conference in UK at the end of July 2004.

Dr. Engineer returned to London on 29th March and was invited to deliver a lecture on Quran and Modernity by Islamic College for Advanced Studies. This college is run by Iranian and particularly focuses on Shia theology. Dr. M. J. Elmi, Principal of the college and Senior Professor, Prof. Ezzi were also present in the lecture. And Prof. Tahir Wasti organised the lecture. Prof. Ezzi particularly greatly appreciated Dr. Engineer's lecture.

- In October 2001
The University of Western Australia's Department of Political Science presented two lectures by internationally renowned scholar of Islam, Professor Asghar Ali Engineer from the Institute of Islamic Studies in Mumbai, India.

His lecture: 'Islam and Women' will be delivered tomorrow (Wednesday, October 24, 2001) at 6pm in the Alexander Lecture Theatre.

The second lecture titled: 'Islam in South Asia' will be presented on Friday, October 26, 2001, at 11 am in the Political Science Conference Room.

- November 16 &18 2001

1. The Religious and Social background of Afghanistan and the Taliban: The Problems Involved

Speaker: Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer (Head of the Center for the Study of Society and Secularism & Director of the Institute of Islamic Studies)
Date and Time: November 16 (Friday), (17:10 ~ 8:40) PM
Place: Room No. 911 (9th. Floor), Library Building, Sophia University,Tokyo.

2. The present state of the Islamic movement in South Asia

Speaker: Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer (Head of the Center for the Study of Society and Secularism & Director of the Institute of Islamic Studies)
Date and Time: November 18 (Sunday), (15:00~17:00) PM
Place: 1st. Floor of the Hakubi-kan, Kyoto University.

Indian Muslim Council, USA (IMC-USA)
'Defending India's freedom, democracy and pluralism'
IMC-USA Weekly News Digest - January 14th, 2003

What: 'Secularism & Democracy in India: Challenges Ahead'
When: January 24th, 2004 from 12:30 - 4:30 PM.
Where: Santa Clara Marriott, 2700 Mission College Blvd, Santa Clara, CA
Tickets: $10, includes lunch. Free baby-sitting.
RSVP: bayarea@imc-usa.org , (408) 219-1433
More Info: http://www.imc-usa.org/events.htm

Sponsored by: Coalition against Communalism (CAC), Friends of South Asia (FOSA), South Asian Progressive Action Collective (SAPAC), NRI's for a Secular & Harmonious India (NRI-SAHI), Indian Muslim Council - USA (IMC-USA), Indian Muslim Relief Committee (IMRC)

What: 'Communalism & Identity Politics in India'
When: January 25, 2004. 6:00PM - 8:00 PM
Where: FunAsia, Richardson, TX
RSVP: info@imc-usa.org , (972)889-8000

Sponsored by: Indian Muslim Council - USA (IMC-USA)

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What: 'Democracy & Communal Harmony in India: Role of NRI & PIO Community'
When: Saturday, January 31st 2004, 1:00PM - 3:30 PM
Where: Indo-American Center, 6328 N. California, Chicago, IL 60659
Tickets: $10 per person, $5 for students (Includes Buffet Lunch)
RSVP: bb_nri_pio@yahoo.com , (708)466-0244

Sponsored by: Building Bridges [A Coalition comprising of following organizations: World Tamil Organization (WTO), South Asian Progressive Action Network (SAPAC), Coalition for Secular and Democratic India (CSDI), Indian Muslim Council-USA (IMC-USA), South Asia Group for Action and Reflection (SAGAR) ]

If you need a list of hundreds others, please feel free to ask. We will gladly oblige.

IF YOU DON'T READ ALL ABOVE. UNDERSTAND SIMPLE THING

IT HAS BEEN SAID

IF YOU HAVE TO GO CHINA FOR KNOWLEDGE, YOU BETTER GO.

WHAT I WANT TO ASK YOU HAVE EVER ONE KOTHARI VISITED ANY OTHER PLACE FOR STUDIES OTHER THAN JAMIA. Mr. ENGINEER HAS. AND MORE IMPORTANT QUESTION IS THAT ARE THEY CAPABLE OF AQUIRING KNOWLEDGE? OR ARE THEY BUILD FOR NOTHING BUT PROPAGANDAS.

AND IF WE HAVE TO FOLLOW SOME ONE WHY DON'T WE FOLLOW FANATICS AND HAVE GREAT THALS OF JAMAN.

I do have reservation about Dr.Engineer's personality, and i am not straying in dark, even some of the progressives has told me about Dr. Engineer's personality. Though in my opion his personnel character has nothing to do with his intelictual being, having said that, leaders could only lead by examples. i have met him once in pakistan when he was invited for lectures, i met him at one of my journalist friend's place, i found him very articulate and well conversed, also very educated person, he has his own interprtation of islam and quran, which in my opinion he is very much entitled to. but as a movement to go far all those who wish to lead, and educated the masses, has to do so with examples. I think the progressive movement if not picking up momentum in even disgruntled bohras, is their deficiency in providing a popular platform, though we should all acknowledge, that progressive movement do not have the resources and approach, as the orthodox has. orthodox have two edged advantage, they have control over one's social as well as religious life. They have successfully mingled personal and social life with religion. in that they have used nazi style propaganda, make masses believe that there is only way of survival, that is total submission, for that they create now and then horrific examples of excommunications, giving hard times at one's wedding and death, making family abondon family memebrs, all in the name of religion. the gentleman who wrote against Dr. Engineer either had incomplete knowledge about religion, theology, and social movements. I consider myself socialist, but it does not mean that i have to be ethiest, or that i do not believe in god. i very much do, but believing in god should not deprive you of your freedom of soul and body. the very essence of religion is emanicipation of human beings, not exploitation. which unfortunately all religions are about now. Religion should give you the rights, not take away. God as we know has 100 names and 99 of them are for kindness and merci.and then again God proclaims to be sole judge. justice can only be performed in equilibrium. so far as my knowledge of fatmid heritage goes, the whole movement was very secular from its inception in the days abbasids, even musturins in their famous narrations has completely seprated the church and state. actually our own dai institution was secular in social life, till 50th dai, and participation was volinteer with no compulsion, in those time if can recall lots of our people were involved in philanthropy, like sir adamji pirbhoy quetawalas, moris walas, who built orphanages, schools, hospitals, that too for the service of humanity, but since last dai the whole concept of fatimid dawat started to change, instead of a moderate religio socio concept, it started converting into more strigent, and adapting to fundamentalist approach. BY doing so was in no way meant for the purification of soul, but rather to devise a system, in which clergy is made powerful, and with no criticism, masses were made to believe that criticizing the clergy will tantamount to repulsion of islam. very inteligent but fanatics and oppurtinist were hired to come up with a theology that was best suited in this endeavour. Yusuf bhai saheb was very instrumental in all this. the jamias were converted into a propaganda schools, thousands of children were registered, and imparted education so called religious education free of cost, and then they were scattered around the world to discharge their duties, their prime task was to ensure that the masses are bound in such a way that no one dares to ask questions, as those graduates of jamia also knew that their only way of livelihood is to serve under this umbrella. they themselves came to know after a while, that the system is fundametally corrupt and knit together to serve a family rather than the broad spectrum, then they also became the part of it in manipulating exploiting for their own personel intrest as well as for the intrest of the family, they also knew that as long as they do not challenge or harm the intrest of the family, they will be asked no question. this became the order of the day, and is so very much right now. so all these amils and member of syedna's family is running this corporation for their own benefits. the only way to restore the true spirit of fatmid heritage is to make awareness among the masses, the difference between social and religious lives, strengthening the institution of dawat instead creating ilah ul ard.

IF YOU DON'T READ ALL ABOVE. UNDERSTAND SIMPLE THING

IT HAS BEEN SAID

quote: IF YOU HAVE TO GO CHINA FOR KNOWLEDGE, YOU BETTER GO.

WHAT I WANT TO ASK YOU HAVE EVER ONE KOTHARI VISITED ANY OTHER PLACE FOR STUDIES OTHER THAN JAMIA. Mr. ENGINEER HAS. AND MORE IMPORTANT QUESTION IS THAT ARE THEY CAPABLE OF AQUIRING KNOWLEDGE? OR ARE THEY BUILD FOR NOTHING BUT PROPAGANDAS.

Well Husain try only matching the qualification gained by Moula Mazoon Saheb (TUS) family. Then talk about other kotharis. You have 1 engineer qualified leading you like (Jahil) sheep's towards hell. Speak not if you are qualified in china, go talk to chinese forum they will understand you better.

AND IF WE HAVE TO FOLLOW SOME ONE WHY DON'T WE FOLLOW FANATICS AND HAVE GREAT THALS OF JAMAN.

Those jamans are nehamat's from Allah don't make fun of it. Ask those who are less fortunate enough to even taste one morsal of that nehamat.

WaytoH.....and other in that group
You talk about Dr. Engineer, but if I understand correctly, it was not him who had to go on TV and appologised to the Sunni population on the demand of a Hindu Chief Minister. It was not him who after years of bad mouthing Adamjee Peerbhoy had to agree to build Adamjee Peerbhoy Senatorium but had to agree to restore his grave and agree to put his name exactly as Saifee Hospital.
I wonder if they would have approached Asgharali Engineer might be they could have save Rubat in Makkah since he is respected as Islamic Scholar and has been invited by Muslim Countries to resolve problems faced by Haajis.
ALBIRD, you were claver enough to mention Mazoon Sahib's family but nobody on Board has every talked about Mazoon Sahib's family. As a matter of fact isn't he and his family has problems with Syedna and his cohorts as was evidanced by ZAAHIR BAATIN WEBSITE. Donot confuse the topics.