Dawoodi Bohra Forum

BISMILLAH HIR RAHMAN NIR RAHIM,
I SEEK REFUGE WITH ALLAH THE ALL KNOWING, THE ALL POWERFUL FROM SHAITAN ACCURSED,

Dear Muslims,
Greetings be to those who are the folowers of righteous guidance.
I have a question regarding islam and i hope that someone can answer it for me.
My father is an atheist and once i had an debate with him regarding islam,
and this is what he told me,"I dont beleive in God but i beleive in Humanity, Neither do I beleive in Rituals but I beleive in spirtuallity"

I questioned my father as to what were the rituals in islam and this is what he said,"HAJJ? FASTING ??"

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE INFORM ME REGARDING HAJJ WHY WE DO IT AND WHY WE FAST. BECAUSE TO ME IT STILL DOES LOOK LIKE A RITUAL. MY FATHER QUESTIONED THAT ISLAM IS A TRUELY MONOTHEIST RELIGION THEN WHY DO MUSLIMS PRAY TOWARDS KAABA AND ON GOING TO HAJJ KISS THE SACRED STONE AND ALL THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. EVEN REGRDING ZIARAT IS THAT NOT IDOL WORSHIP

I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION REGARDING ISLAM WHICH IS CONNECTED TO FAAL. IS IT TRUE THAT ONE CAN NO ONES FUTURE BY OPENING A PAGE IN THE QURAN. THE QURAN ITSELF SAYS THAT IT CONTAINS THE KNOWLEDGE OF EVERYTHING THAT MEANS OF YOU ME OF ANIMALS EVERTHING.

I HAVE ALSO TO QUESTION REGARDING WADHAWANA ON BOHRA BIRTHDAYS IS IT AN ISLAMIC CUSTOM

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From:
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/misconceptions/index.htm

Question:

When Islaam is against idol worship why do the Muslims worship, and bow down to the Ka'abah idol in Their Prayer?

Answer..

Ka'abah is the Qiblah i.e. the direction Muslims face during their prayers. It is important to note that though Muslims face the Ka'abah during prayers, they do not worship the Ka'abah.Muslims worship and bow to none but Allaah. It is mentioned in Surah Baqarah:

"We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens: now shall We turn thee to a Qiblah that shall please thee. Turn then thy face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque: wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction." [Al-Qur'ân 2:144]

1. Islam believes in fostering unity For instance, if Muslims want to offer Salaah(Prayer), it is possible that some may wish to
face north, while some may wish to face south. In order to unite Muslims in their worship of the One True God, Muslims, wherever they may be, are asked to face in only one direction i.e. towards the Ka'abah. If some Muslims live towards the west of the Ka'abah they face the east. Similarly if they live towards the east of the Ka'abah they face the west.

2. Ka'abah is at the Centre of the World Map
The Muslims were the first people to draw the map of the world. They drew the map with the south facing upwards and north downwards. The Kaaba was at the centre. Later, western cartographers drew the map upside down with the north facing upwards and south downwards. Yet, Alhamdullilah the Ka'abah is at the centre of the world map.

3. Tawaf around Ka'abah for indicating one God
When the Muslims go to Masjid-e-Haram in Makkah, they perform tawaf or circumambulation round the Ka'abah. This act symbolizes the belief and worship of One God, since, just as every circle has one centre, so also there is only one Allah (swt) worthy of worship.

4. Hadith of Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him)
Regarding the black stone, hajr-e-aswad, there is a Hadeeth (tradition), attributed to the illustrious companion of the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), Umar (may Allah be pleased with him).
According to Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, book of Hajj, chapter 56, H.No. 675. Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) said, "I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit nor harm. Had I not seen the Prophet (pbuh) touching (and kissing) you, I would never have touched (and kissed) you".

5. People stood on Ka'abah and gave the adhaan
At the time of the Prophet, people even stood on the Ka'abah and gave the ‘adhaan’ or the call to prayer. One may ask those who allege that Muslims worship the Ka'abah; which idol worshipper stands on the idol he worships

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peace be upon u...

,"I dont beleive in God but i beleive in Humanity, Neither do I beleive in Rituals but I beleive in spirtuallity"

U cannot believe in humanity without believing in GOD..Humanity demands equality and justice. Belief in One GOD and everyone as HIS creation develops the notion of equality. Unless and until u don't believe in eqaulity of human beings , u will not be just...

What looks as rituals in islam are not rituals but forms of spritual guidence...
Islam is a "way of life"..Since every man is in dire need of guidence in all spheres of life, Islam guides him at each and every point in life...Worship is a form of spritual guidence.

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE INFORM ME REGARDING HAJJ WHY WE DO IT AND WHY WE FAST. BECAUSE TO ME IT STILL DOES LOOK LIKE A RITUAL.

Islam with its guidence wants every human being to rise to a level of perfection..It wants all the human beings to grow together as a single community or group..fasting and hajj are some forms of such guidence...
Fasting gives u a form of training which develops self control over carnal desires and a sense of sacrifice..This is a great form of help in day to day life...
Hajj is act or means of uniting and calling the human mankind at one place...This is the time and place where there is no bar and difference between humans , all are same and moving towards one goal ie.getting nearer to ur creator...isn't this not a call for equality?

There are many good books on fasting and hajj and they will expalin u their purpose and benefits...

MY FATHER QUESTIONED THAT ISLAM IS A TRUELY MONOTHEIST RELIGION THEN WHY DO MUSLIMS PRAY TOWARDS KAABA AND ON GOING TO HAJJ KISS THE SACRED STONE AND ALL THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. EVEN REGRDING ZIARAT IS THAT NOT IDOL WORSHIP

Muslims do not pray to Kaaba...They pray to only one GOd who is the Creator of All...Namaz is again a form of spritual diet ... Imagine the scenario where everyone performs namaz according to their understanding and in whichever direction they want..In this case there is a scope of difference which can arise based on person to person egoism abt the superiority of worship, which when developed will be difficult to form a perfect society where everyone thinks the way your Creater wants...So allah(swt) has fixed a direction for u which is Kaaba, so now u can kill all ur egoistic directions and ways....

I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION REGARDING ISLAM WHICH IS CONNECTED TO FAAL. IS IT TRUE THAT ONE CAN NO ONES FUTURE BY OPENING A PAGE IN THE QURAN. THE QURAN ITSELF SAYS THAT IT CONTAINS THE KNOWLEDGE OF EVERYTHING THAT MEANS OF YOU ME OF ANIMALS EVERTHING.

I don't know what is faal but generally there is something called as Istekhara which is seeking the help of Allah for guidence.. Normally all decisions we take are based upon the circumstances and according to our intellect but at time the mind gets confused and in that case we are not able to come to a decision, so what we do is with the help of Quranic ayats we try and get focussed on single decision...this is istekhara...

I HAVE ALSO TO QUESTION REGARDING WADHAWANA ON BOHRA BIRTHDAYS IS IT AN ISLAMIC CUSTOM

This is solely a ritual which we might have inheritted from our ancestors who were hindus..

Well ur questions are justified and are lingering in the mind of many bohras...we need to understand islam logically and rationally

hs

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Fall

question: As i know lot of people go and open FAAL is is right practice as in it people open "QURAN" and read it ?

Allah has revealed His Guidance and bestowed the faculty of Intelligence and Power of Reasoning to man, and he should use this faculty and make his decisions accordingly.



To open ‘faal’ and try to figure out the solution to ones problem from that one page is to mis-use the Quran; for the Quran was not sent to open ‘faals’, but revealed by the All-Merciful as a Guidance and Mercy to all mankind!



Never did the Messenger of Allah (saws), nor his noble companions, nor his noble ‘ahle-bayt’ ever practice the use of ‘faal’; and the believers, who sincerely believe in Allah and the Last Day, should follow their example and abstain from such innovations!



The ‘faal’ is nothing but a false practice invented by some unscrupulous mullahs and priests to extort money from their unsuspecting and ignorant followers!

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EXCERPT #1 of Muslim First:

"Allah has revealed His Guidance and bestowed the faculty of Intelligence and Power of Reasoning to man, and he should use this faculty and make his decisions accordingly."

Say pal,
does your evil crap(CERTIFIABLY) allows you to use intelligence or is it HEAR & OBEY?

If you used intelligence then you & the billion + wouldn't be what you are ...

Fatwa:
masturbation is forbidden, but you can enjoy a slave girl instead.

The scholars are unanimously agreed that it is permissible. ....

The wife has no right to object to her husband owning female slaves or to his having intercourse with them.

http://whatsthisthen.netfirms.com/islamicquotes.html

Excerpt #2:
"To open ‘faal’ and try to figure out the solution to ones problem from that one page is to mis-use the Quran; for the Quran was not sent to open ‘faals’, but revealed by the All-Merciful as a Guidance and Mercy to all mankind!"

You mean what you practise & endlessly preach is:
"revealed by the All-Merciful as a Guidance and Mercy to all mankind!"

In which muslim state (60 +) may I find this Mercy?

Quresh:

Quran is a book of guidance. It is a roadmap towards ones salvation. It is a necessity for those who are total disbelievers in the Creator and HIS Creations. It is also for those whose faith and beliefs in the Oneness of GOD is not strong enough and would like to aquire additional knowledge and spiritual guidance.

All your father has to do is to sincerely and absolutely believe in the Creator of the heavens and the earth and everything within and everything beyond and "race towards righteousness". That is the basic requirement of ones absolute and total salvation.

How often one remembers/glorifies/praises GOD Almighty throughtout the day and throughtout the night and whatever righteous works he/she performs each and every time, will surely position him/her to the "heavenly rank" only GOD knows best and no one else. Everything else falls under rituals, traditions, customs, laws, rules and regulations that are nothing else but man-made generated idiologies. If you perform them in such a way as not to cause any "hindrance or false pretense in the way of GOD and HlS creations", I repeat, NOT TO CAUSE ANY HINDRANCE OR FALSE PRETENSE IN THE WAY OF GOD AND HIS CREATIONS, then I believe that there is absolutely no harm in doing so and this is why human race has cultures and traditions, many of which are unethical, unecessary and baseless.

As I had mentinoned earlier on this forum that even the Quran or the Bible or the Torah or any other religious books for that matter, are not necessary for anyone to believe in GOD and to do righteous works as long as one has the brains, the eye sight and the hearing capabilities to study, understand, ponder, perceive and justify upon HIS Signs and HIS Miraculous Creations. Those are the ones whom GOD Almighty has truely blessed with "intelligence and wisdom".

GOD, there is no other god but GOD. HE has no partners and none equals HIM. Be HE Glorified.

Bismillah Hir Rahman Nir Rahim,
I seek refuge with Allah the most gracious the most bountyful from Shaitan accursed,
Dear Danish,
Peace be on you,
This post is to refute your claims that one cannot pray for the dead. Through out my experience on this forum I have seen that you are one of the Submitters who has total Faith in Allah and his Messengers. You are a strong beleiver in Allahs final Scripture Quranal Hakkim.
I have just finished reading the Quran Sharif translated into English by Pickthall(Peace be on him) upto Surah At Taubah.
Heres a Massive point to you regarding Praying and invoking blessings on the dead. All the while you been saying that invoking blessings on the prophet will not make any sense any more AS HE IS DEAD . But here is a verse from the Quran regarding praying for the dead.

9:84. And never (O Muhammad) pray for one of them who dieth, nor stand by his grave. Lo! they disbelieved in Allah and His messenger, and they died while they were evil-doers.

The them and they referded here are the hypocrites. in other words what the quran is saying that the prophet Muhammad should not pray for the hypocrites nor to stand near their graves.
IN OTHER WORDS means that the Prophet is Allowed to pray for others who are dead other than the hypocrites. That means Allah has given the Submitters the permssion to pray for the dead and to visit their graves in his Final Book Al Quran.
That means invoking blessings on the prophet and his progeny is not a sin As mentioned above and that we as uslims can pray for others who are dead.

The them and they referded here are the hypocrites. in other words what the quran is saying that the prophet Muhammad should not pray for the hypocrites nor to stand near their graves.
IN OTHER WORDS means that the Prophet is Allowed to pray for others who are dead other than the hypocrites. That means Allah has given the Submitters the permssion to pray for the dead and to visit their graves in his Final Book Al Quran.
That means invoking blessings on the prophet and his progeny is not a sin As mentioned above and that we as uslims can pray for others who are dead.[/QB]

I have quoted several ayats to support Quresh's statement:

[3.169] And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord;

--Here Allah state that the martyrs are alive.

[37.181] And peace be on the apostles.

--Allah says SALAM on all the Prophets.

[14.40] My Lord! make me keep up prayer and from my offspring (too), O our Lord, and accept my prayer:
[14.41] O our Lord! grant me protection and my parents and the believers on the day when the reckoning shall come to pass!

--Here Prophet Abraham recites dua to Allah for himself, his progency, his DEAD parents, and ALL believers (DEAD AND ALIVE) on the Day of Reckoning.

[71.28] My Lord! forgive me and my parents and him who enters my house believing, and the believing men and the believing women; and do not increase the unjust in aught but destruction!

---Here Prophet Nuh ask for forgives for himself, his DEAD parents, and the believers (muminin).

None of the verses in the Quran refers to praying for the dead. It is your poor understanding the verse/verses that tells you that. When GOD talks to Muhammad in present tense, it is because of the events that happened when Muhammad was alive. Surely, GOD is not talking to Muhammad or other prophets who are not here with us. I stand by what I quoted out of the Quran with several other verses much earlier on this forum with reference to "praying for the dead".

Read the Quran again and again and again....

None of the verses in the Quran refers to praying for the dead. It is your poor understanding the verse/verses that tells you that. ".

peace be upon u all..

As per ur post br. qiyam and others have poor understanding of quran and what they intrepret is incorrect and you are trying to help them to understand what is correct...so what i understand frm this is that all of us do not have a same level of understanding of Quran..this raises the immediate question that how do we know what we interpret from quran is correct , the way allah(swt) wants us to understand...the answer to this is that surely there has to be a standard with which ur undrestanding and interpretation can be compared and that standard can be no other than the prophet(pbuh)through whom quran was revealed...due to physical absense of prophet(pbuh) presently, the standard for comparison is preserved in form of hadis , sunnah and the ahle bait(as)...

Danish, we also believe in total submission to Allah(swt) and absolutely do not deny it...But since we are weak intellectually we need HIS guidence at each step..A perfect source of guidence is the book and a teacher...
After the teacher departs his teaching in form of notes and the book are there to Guide us in submission towards allah...

By following the teachings of prohet(pbuh) we are not worshipping him as his teachings(hadis) always teach us to worship allah(swt) the way the HE wants us...

I agree that lot of hadis has been fabricated in name of prophet(pbuh) but this does not mean that u reject all correct ones too....there is a science of research to separate the false hadis from the truth...

hs

BISMILLAH HIR RAHMAN NIR RAHIM
I seek refuge with Allah the All Knowing, Allpowerful from shaitan accursed,
Dear Danish,
Peace be on you,
[Q]None of the verses in the Quran refers to praying for the dead. It is your poor understanding the verse/verses that tells you that. When GOD talks to Muhammad in present tense, it is because of the events that happened when Muhammad was alive. Surely, GOD is not talking to Muhammad or other prophets who are not here with us. I stand by what I quoted out of the Quran with several other verses much earlier on this forum with reference to "praying for the dead".[/Q]
First and foremst i have already given you a verse 9:84 where Allah Taala instructs Muhammad our beloved prophet not to pray only for the dead hypocrites. Danish I feel youve almost forgotten that Allah is the most merciful and may be he may forgive the sins of the dead for you have been asking for that.Islam was sent to all of mankind and the quran to abide with mankind till kayamat. Do you think Allah taala would have revealed a verse just for the present time when Muhammad existed. No,Indeed Allah is the All Knowing. Show me one verse from the Quran that does not support praying for the dead and surely By Allah I shall trust you. I would like you to refer to Pickthalls translation of the Quranal Hakkim as his is the most reliable translation.And if you are not able to give me even one verse then By Allah you are amonst the misguided.

Ayat 9:84

"wa la tusalli ala ahadin min-hum maata abadan, wa la taqum ala qabri-hi"

And here is Rashad Khalifa's take on it, another diabolical (satanic) license to interpret the verse in his own fashion....

"You shall not observe the funeral prayer for any of them when he dies, nor shall you stand at his grave."

Word for funeral (janaza) does not appear in the ayat at all. And there is no indication that it refers to one who has "just" i.e. freshly died. "maata" means "those who have died"

wa=and
la tusalli=do not pray
ala=over
ahadin min-hum=any one of them
maata=Those who have died
abadan=ever

"and do not ever pray over anyone of those who have died"

The ayat does not end there. It continues to describe who "those who have died are".

They are the "faasiqoon".

Question. Since the ayat uses only the male pronoun, would it also apply to the dead "faasiq" woman?

Danish,
since we are ignorant and you are so verses in the understandings of the Quran...please answer me this in regards to the ayats I referenced:

In all the ayats are in reference to duas..such as Allah saying peace on the Prophets, or the statements of Prophet Abraham and Nuh. These are duas. What is a dua according to your vast knowledge?

In my own understanding, a duah is a mental prayer...similar combination of mental and physical prayer called salat.

humble...:

Danish, we also believe in total submission to Allah(swt) and absolutely do not deny it...But since we are weak intellectually we need HIS guidence at each step..

The word "total" injected above is false and thus your submission is to "others" as well as Allah.

A perfect source of guidence is the book and a teacher...

Excellent point. The teacher MUST be in "total conformity" with the book of guidance and nothing else. There is no other book of guidance except Quran. Thus the teacher must stick to it. All other books are stictly for study purposes, not for religious implementations. There are literally thousands of such books written by hundreds of clerics to study, each giving varying degrees of their own perspectives, thus the ritualistic and traditional ceremonies, divisional sects, creeds and cults within the same religion.

After the teacher departs his teaching in form of notes and the book are there to Guide us in submission towards allah...

Muhammad departed and left behind the Quran, the only Quran and nothing but the Quran which he obeyed and strictly followed. There were no hadiths immediately before or long after his death during which everyone followed what Muhammad taught, the Quran.

I agree that lot of hadis has been fabricated in name of prophet(pbuh) but this does not mean that u reject all correct ones too....there is a science of research to separate the false hadis from the truth...

How can you be absolutely certain that which hadith is correct and what science are you talking about? If hundred people said twenty different things on the same subject, lets say Salaat performed by Hazrat Ali, which one would you pick out to believe to be the correct one knowing that all hundred people were true and loyal companions of Hazrat Ali.

Qiyam:

In all the ayats are in reference to duas..such as Allah saying peace on the Prophets, or the statements of Prophet Abraham and Nuh. These are duas. What is a dua according to your vast knowledge?

In my own understanding, a duah is a mental prayer...similar combination of mental and physical prayer called salat.

If prayers were mental only, then how did people know what Muhammad prayed. Although you are partly right, a "dua" can be said mentally as well as by speech in any physical condition, whether standing, sitting, bowing, prostrating, lying, in the car, on the plane, at sea, over the mountains, climbing up a tree, at war, while eating, during exercise, etc., etc. The Quran is full of beautiful duas and one can pray in any way he/she likes. There is absolutely no given way.

Danish,
If prayers were mental only, then how did people know what Muhammad prayed. Although you are partly right, a "dua" can be said mentally as well as by speech in any physical condition, whether standing, sitting, bowing, prostrating, lying, in the car, on the plane, at sea, over the mountains, climbing up a tree, at war, while eating, during exercise, etc., etc. The Quran is full of beautiful duas and one can pray in any way he/she likes. There is absolutely no given way.

--a dua is a mental prayer; the salat is a basically physical motions with duas at each state.

"then how did people know what Muhammad prayed"

--Why does it matter...in your world he's dead. The only ONE that knows is Allah.

Now back to the reason I brought this up...you've agreed duas are allowed per the Quran. Now reference the ayats I quoted. Prophet Abraham and Nuh made dua to Allah for their DEAD parents and all muminin (alive or dead) to be forgiven based on the fact they mentioned the Day of Reckoning. Now you also stated that you can make a dua anywhere and in any form..."The Quran is full of beautiful duas and one can pray in any way he/she likes. There is absolutely no given way". So why do you say I cannot make a dua to Allah for my dead relatives at their graves when the Quran doesn't forbid it???

Qiyam,

--a dua is a mental prayer; the salat is a basically physical motions with duas at each state.

Only partly true as I explained earlier.

--Why does it matter...in your world he's dead. The only ONE that knows is Allah.

It does matter, because you seem to be living in the world of dead by exalting and imploring Muhammad and all the rest of the dead that only Allah knows about, not you. You are contradicting your own statement above. I am living along in this world with whatever is "alive" and given to me such as the Quran, HIS creation, science, etc., not the dead.

So why do you say I cannot make a dua to Allah for my dead relatives at their graves when the Quran doesn't forbid it???

You already gave a partial answer to your own question above in your firt statement. More details are given in the Quran, so read it again and again and again.

Qiyam,

--a dua is a mental prayer; the salat is a basically physical motions with duas at each state.

Only partly true as I explained earlier.

--Why does it matter...in your world he's dead. The only ONE that knows is Allah.

It does matter, because you seem to be living in the world of dead by exalting and imploring Muhammad and all the rest of the dead that only Allah knows about, not you. You are contradicting your own statement above. I am living along in this world with whatever is "alive" and given to me such as the Quran, HIS creation, science, etc., not the dead.

So why do you say I cannot make a dua to Allah for my dead relatives at their graves when the Quran doesn't forbid it???

You already gave a partial answer to your own question above in your first statement. More details are given in the Quran, so read it again and again and again.

BISMILLAH HIR RAHMAN NIR RAHIM
ISSEK REFUGE WITH ALLAH THE MOST MERCIFUL FROM SHAITAN ACCURSED,
Dear Muslims,
Greetings be to those who are the followers of righteous guidance,
Danish is surely amongst the mis guided as He has no answer to my claim............Of course he will not have one as the, Claim is from Allah Taala's most Gracious Book Al Quran.At this point of time i remember a very Famous quotation from the quran which Danish has quoted many a time.

57. And who doth greater wrong than he who hath been reminded of the revelations of his Lord, yet turneth away from them and forgetteth what his hands send forward (to the Judgment) ? Lo! on their hearts We have placed coverings so that they understand not, and in their ears a deafness. And though thou call them to the guidance, in that case they can never be led aright.

Quresh,

The problems lies in your blames, not claims. Keep on reading the Quran and surely you'll come to your senses, by GOD's Will.

GOD, there is no other god but GOD. HE has no partners and none equals HIM. Be HE Glorified.

Danish,
the problem here, as always with your analysis, is you reference ayats that have nothing to do with the topic and claim others have no idea regarding the Quran...a little pretenious!

Regarding duas:
Only partly true as I explained earlier

--Actually you didn't explain how I was "only partly true".

It does matter, because you seem to be living in the world of dead by exalting and imploring Muhammad and all the rest of the dead that only Allah knows about, not you. You are contradicting your own statement above. I am living along in this world with whatever is "alive" and given to me such as the Quran, HIS creation, science, etc., not the dead.

---I said this because you reference how muslim were to know if Muhammad was saying a dua...my point was according to you...Muhammad doesn't matter, he's dead.

I asked: So why do you say I cannot make a dua to Allah for my dead relatives at their graves when the Quran doesn't forbid it???

You wrote: You already gave a partial answer to your own question above in your first statement. More details are given in the Quran, so read it again and again and again.

--You didn't answer the question, again! I referenced the Quran for the method of making a dua...not other books for the actions. So how can you tell me not to make dua for DEAD relatives...when the Allah in the Quran quotes the actions of how Prophet Abraham and Nuh made dua as example of this and APPROVED OF THIS METHOD.

Qiyam,

All answers to your questions are clearly given previously. Either you have lack of understanding or create baseless arguments. Abraham and Noah never made any prayers for the dead, not did any other prophets.

Danish,
I quoted ayats in this very thread stating the Prophet Abraham and Nuh making dua for the all muminin (dead or alive) for the Day of Reckoning.

I will quote again Prophet Abraham:
[14.40] My Lord! make me keep up prayer and from my offspring (too), O our Lord, and accept my prayer (here the word dua is used).
[14.41] O our Lord! grant me protection and my parents and the believers on the day when the reckoning shall come to pass!

I will quote again Prophet Nuh:
[71.28] My Lord! forgive me and my parents and him who enters my house believing, and the believing men and the believing women; and do not increase the unjust in aught but destruction!

Both of these are duas to Allah for living and dead peoples (believers).

And NO,you have not answered my original question in any form...though you keep saying you did:

So how can you tell me not to make dua for DEAD relatives...when the Allah in the Quran quotes the actions of how Prophet Abraham and Nuh made dua as example of this and APPROVED OF THIS METHOD.

Qiyam,

Though I don't agree on hardly anything that you and Danish have to say, it is important to note a very elementary mistake (spin) that you espouse on this board frequently, and frankly it is very annoying.

You know very well that there is a difference between praying for somebody, and praying to somebody. It is a fact that Bohras pray to Maula , in addition to praying to God. They also keep little jars of money for nazzarmukaman and they pray to nazzarmukkan that their wishes come true. Then they spend that money (whether God makes those wishes come true or not), which invariably puts some money in the Kothars hands (also known as Razaa and salaams).

Qiyam,

I will quote again Prophet Abraham:
[14.40] My Lord! make me keep up prayer and from my offspring (too), O our Lord, and accept my prayer (here the word dua is used).
[14.41] O our Lord! grant me protection and my parents and the believers on the day when the reckoning shall come to pass!

14:40 talks about Abraham praying for his offspring (children) ALIVE, not dead.
14:41 talks about Abraham praying for his parents and all the "believers" (submitters to GOD Alone, not idolworshippers) while they are ALIVE and not dead, so that when the day of reckoning comes, GOD by HIS Will can grant them protection. All the dead already did what they had to do and their chapters are closed. What one must pray for are those who are ALIVE and STILL have chance to revert back and redeem themselves by praying to God for them, so that only HE can bestow HIS mercy on them. Another scenario: You would be able to protect and take care of your great great grandfather if he was alive today. Can you protect and take care of him now that he's already dead?

I will quote again Prophet Nuh:
[71.28] My Lord! forgive me and my parents and him who enters my house believing, and the believing men and the believing women; and do not increase the unjust in aught but destruction!

Prophet Noah is praying to GOD for his parents and all others who "ENTERS" (present tense) his house believing. How can Noah's parents and all others enter his house after they are dead?

Once again, you have a lack of understanding and baseless arguments.

GOD, there is no other god but GOD. HE has no partners and none equals HIM. Be HE Glorified.

Muddai:

You know very well that there is a difference between praying for somebody, and praying to somebody. It is a fact that Bohras pray to Maula , in addition to praying to God.

If you are praying as in "dua" to GOD Almighty for your kohtars (alive) so that GOD guide them, have mercy on them and put them on their right track, then that is perfectly fine. But if you are praying as in performing or during "Salaat (Namaaz)" for them or to them (dead or alive), which the Bohras do so with such dignity and divinity, then that's total idolworship and is unforgiveable. In either case, the Salaat for/to is absolutely reserved for and the only rite decreed for GOD Alone and no one else. By performing rakahs for your senior professional kothars (Dais and Syedenas), you made them your gods. A huge unforgiveable mistake which is very clear in the Quran and yet you guys cannot seem to understand. No wonder you guys are in the strongest grip of Satan which has made you extremely difficult to get out of and unchallengingly hesitate to come out of it. Read and understand the Quran Alone and repent and "talk" to GOD Almighty to set you free and save you from that Satan's grip. Only GOD Almighty has the power to do so and no one else for Satan's challenge is with GOD, not you.

They also keep little jars of money for nazzarmukaman and they pray to nazzarmukkan that their wishes come true. Then they spend that money (whether God makes those wishes come true or not), which invariably puts some money in the Kothars hands (also known as Razaa and salaams).

Is this some kind of a VooDoo (black-magic) that you are referring to. Jars of money (nazzarmukaman) has no significance to save anyone from idolworship or Satan or devilish acts. These are all acts of 'shirk' or 'bida', including "taweez", "blowing at someone", Syedenas pictures and other keepsakes, "wadawannu", etc. Its part of the pagan Hindu culture from where the Dawoodi Bohra community originated for its creed and greed.

Danish,

Dude ! Get off your perch and read my email before calling me a Satan follower. Where is all this anger coming from ? Must be the stress of speaking for God and passing judgement all the time.

Chill out, pull your head out of your ass and quit taking yourself so seriously

Qiyam,

The ayaat you quoted to support praying (offering dua) for the dead do not state that the parents of the illustrious prophets were already dead.

How did you conclude that they were already dead? Is that your assumption? How old were the prophets when the events described in the ayaat took place?

Muddai,
It is indicative from your comments that although you like criticizing things...you have little understanding of those things to critcize.

For example you wrote:

You know very well that there is a difference between praying for somebody, and praying to somebody. It is a fact that Bohras pray to Maula , in addition to praying to God.

--If you believe this...you understanding little of bohra aqidah. You will never hear this from any bohra...I'm not sure who you talk to or follow.

They also keep little jars of money for nazzarmukaman and they pray to nazzarmukkan that their wishes come true. Then they spend that money (whether God makes those wishes come true or not), which invariably puts some money in the Kothars hands (also known as Razaa and salaams).

--Nadhir Maqam is the Imam az'Zaman...and we give sadaqa via money or grains as wasilah in his name in asking Allah for their wish to come true. There is a huge difference between this and what you wrote. Maybe its time to attend a sabaq?

Porus,
[14.40] My Lord! make me keep up prayer and from my offspring (too), O our Lord, and accept my prayer (here the word dua is used).
[14.41] O our Lord! grant me protection and my parents and the believers on the day when the reckoning shall come to pass!

Note the reference Prophet Abraham makes for when this dua is for...on the day of Reckoning. On this day...EVERYONE WILL BE DEAD.

A few observations:

Bohras agree that salaat is offered only to Allah. Duas are adjunct to salaat and can also be offered at times other than salaat times.

Funeral prayer is not really a salaat as such. No ruku or sujood is performed. So, to call it a salaat-ul-janaaza is a misnomer.

Similarly, a salaat for someone, other than dua, as performed by Bohras for their Dai does appear to me to be not sanctioned by the Quran.