Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Hi Folks:

I have been lurking around this message baords for quite some time, although this is my first post.

I would like to understand why Syedna Burhanuddin has not designated a sucessor yet? When Syedna Tahir Saifuddin was the Dai it was clear from the start who would be leading the Dawat after him.

From what I understand the question of Nass has always plagued both Imams and Dais, often resulting in schisms.

Any insight in the present affairs and politics of the dawat would be appreciated.

Sodawaterbatliwala

Posted by M. Burhan on October 02, 1999 at 02:04:42:
May Allah Almighty grant Aqua Moula good health and long life.

Amen.

Aqua Moula is or will be nearly 90 years old. Alhamdullilah. However, it is rather disconcerting to note that His Holiness has not as yet appointed his heir as the next Dai-ul-Mutlaq. During the whole history of Islam, Shias and in particular the Bohras, history tells us that the power struggle for successsion has lead to schisms - intrigues, conspiracies, murders, poisoning etc. All the firqaus in Islam has invariably arisen from power struggles due to the doubtfulness about the rightful succession.
Since the death of the Prophet (SAW), right from the reign of the three Khalifas, to the assassinations of Hazrat Ali, poisoning of Imam Hassan, martydom of Imam Hussein, the split at the time of Imam Hakim and the formation of the Druze firqa, the formation of Alavis firqa, the succession problems and split of the Ithna Asheris and the Ismailis (Imam Ismail vs. Imam Mussa Kaazim), split between the Nizaris and the Mustaalians (Imam Mustaali vs. Imam Nizaar), the schism when the Suleimani Bohras, the Nagosha Bohras, the Alvi Bohras, the Naagpuri and Sidhpuri firqas of the Bohris, and so on and so forth.
We all know the problems and allegations of poisoning during the succession of the 47th Dai. Please note that the Progressives are NOT, repeat NOT a firqua like the above-mentioned firquas. The Progressives just have some grievances against the preset administration/bureacracy of the Kothar - mainly to do with the unIslamic rituals, corruption, contravention of the followers' human and civil rights etc.
Muqqadas Moula Syedna Taher Saifuddin had four fives and a number of children - the present 52nd Dai being one of them. He was appointed the heir apparent during Muqqadas Moula's life time and it was a public appointment of great rejoicing. When Muqqadas Moula died, there was an uneventful and smooth transition. Now it seems that the present Moulana has not done any Naas to his successor, in my opinion, for the following reasons:

(i) There are so many potential candidates amongst his own children, his numerous nephews and sons of his cousins eagerly waiting in the wings that there might be a palace revolt if an heir apparent is appointed by him - and he wants to avoid a public scenes of mischief amongst his family and members of his relatives, including grandchildren and grand nephews.

(ii) He has already appointed some one (the rumours are Muffadal Bhai Saheb)either in private or through his Vasiyatnaamu/will in writing. If this is the case, members of his immediate family like Quaide Johar, Ali Asghar or Kinana might deny any knowledge of this private arrangement and try to create a fitna or schism - leading to the yet another firqa of the Bohris.

(iii) As the staunch followers of Aqua Moula believe that he is "gebna jannara"/knowing all past, present and future events, may be he only knows when he is going to pass on for higher services. So just before this fateful day he will announce his successor in public and avoid the in-fighting of succession amongst his family members.

So let us pray to Almighty Allah that the community, if and when the occasion arises, does not suffer from the succession struggle like the ones mentioned above.

PS: Since then there has been more unrest and schism recently in Kothar - in 2003.
Please access www.zahirbatin.com

Burhanuddin silence means only 1 thing, his evil desire to nominate his Son.

Now, this is the present situation in Dawat :

Burhanuddin cant nominate his Son as the next in line to the throne of Dawat as Khuzema Bhai Saheb(mazoon Saheb) is the valid heir apparent.

MAzoon Saheb hold a lot of property in the Family Clan. Most of Dawat property - Portion of Saife Mahal, Roza tu tahera Gulla, Funds, Some Jamat, and other Charities is in Khuzema Bhaisaheb name. And legally it is difficult for Burhanuddin Bastards to legally get rid of Old Man Khuzema BS.

Some years ago,It Seems this issue would be settle when some family member in Saife Mahal were willing to settled for certain undisclosed amount of money to buy the share of Taher Saifuddin brothers and Burhanuddin Step brothers but It seems the deal didn’t went through.

And you know what happen next. Burhanuddin Bastard and his Clan started to put a barat on the Mazoon Saheb so they can at least put him away religiously if not legally. They try to shift opinion of mass.

Anyway, I don’t think Bohra should be concern about the Nass for Next Dai. Mark my word, there is not going to be any more Dai after 52

Bismillah Hir Rahman nir Rahim,
I seek refuge with Allah the Most Gracious from Shaitan accursed,
Dear Jinx,
Greetings be to those who are the followers of righteous guidance,

iii) As the staunch followers of Aqua Moula believe that he is "gebna jannara"/knowing all past, present and future events, may be he only knows when he is going to pass on for higher services. So just before this fateful day he will announce his successor in public and avoid the in-fighting of succession amongst his family members.

I Have a question here how can The Syedna be the All knowing or even the imam be the All knowing when Allah the most high is the All knowing. Here we have a person performing shirk.

How can the syedna know everything when the prophet himself has told us that he was just a human nor did he know what was going to happen to him neither did he have the power to change anything but by Allah taalas leave. Syedna is really leading people stray . May he becursed in this world and in the next

Hoping a reply from jinx

This is my first time on here and having read some of the postings i just wanted to ask does it really matter who the next successor is?

My question is this, as reformists/progressive Dawoodi Bohra's what are we doing to ensure that we maintain our identity and remain a community at large.

I'm born and bred here in the UK and i've noticed that for the last 5-10yrs the community over here in general has not only weaken but there seems to be no unity amongst us i feel we have no direction other than to expose what the kothar are doing etc - surely it's time we concentrated on us and worry less about the 'other side'.

Jinx,

You will truly truly go to hell... and inshallah you will see hell in this lifetime too and I can assure of you that.

Everytime a mumin reads the shit that you write, a silent prayer comes out cursing you and you will see the result of that curse soon.

Originally posted by quresh8719:


How can the syedna know everything when the prophet himself has told us that he was just a human nor did he know what was going to happen to him neither did he have the power to change anything but by Allah taalas leave. Syedna is really leading people stray . May he becursed in this world and in the next

Hoping a reply from jinx

Quresh is another bastard who will follow jinx right int he path to hell.. that is for sure.

Jeeze, some of you really need to get a LIFE. Get out more and quit filling yourselves with hate. Look at the broader picture. At the end of the day Seydna is a mere mortal like you and me, how can one have the audacity and bow down to him and still call themselves muslims,truly amazes me - frankly these people need to get an education on Islam. One should not bow down to ANYONE or ANYTHING apart from Allah swt. Some people are truly ignorant.

Admin - are you hearing?

Jinx needs to control his/her language.

Mumin & Jinx

You folks really need to get a grip of yourselves and quit swearing. Act your age and not ur sure size.

the community over here in general has not only weaken but there seems to be no unity amongst us i feel we have no direction other than to expose what the kothar are doing etc - surely it's time we concentrated on us and worry less about the 'other side'.

Correct..the reformist group has no direction at all, they are trying to fight on issues which will never give them success...Their complete motive behind this fight is the accountability of funds and their misappropriation....

If tommorrow the kothar starts giving an account the reformist might start accepting them...

What is/was required in this fight was to fight against the non-islamic practice in Bohras, the violation of Quran and sunnah, but for this one has to himself be well versed and strong in religion... I don't think reformist are much different as compared to normal bohras in this matter..

Only those revelutions succeed which are based on achieving the path of truth...

hs

Originally posted by hc:
Admin - are you hearing?

Jinx needs to control his/her language.

What did I say that sounded offensive to you?

Originally posted by freak_of_nature:
At the end of the day Seydna is a mere mortal like you and me, how can one have the audacity and bow down to him and still call themselves muslims,truly amazes me - frankly these people need to get an education on Islam. One should not bow down to ANYONE or ANYTHING apart from Allah swt. Some people are truly ignorant.

My dear
Bowing is the least of bohra Prob. There are more pressing and urgent Issues out there

Originally posted by quresh8719:

I Have a question here how can The Syedna be the All knowing or even the imam be the All knowing when Allah the most high is the All knowing. Here we have a person performing shirk.

How can the syedna know everything when the prophet himself has told us that he was just a human nor did he know what was going to happen to him neither did he have the power to change anything but by Allah taalas leave. Syedna is really leading people stray . May he becursed in this world and in the next
Hoping a reply from jinx[/QB][/QUOTE]
As for the claim that Sayedna is all Knowing..that is ludicrously and totally rubbish.

Yes, Sayedna and his family is leading people astray BIGTIME.It is very unfortunate that we have such con men in our community. Mark my word..!They will be questioned..if not here then Akhira.

As for common bohras, most are fully aware of what is happening in community.

The thing that we need to understand is Indians and their mentality which is largely shaped by India(Socialy, economicaly and culturally). Corruptions, money-laundering, oppression, unaccountability, big time con-men..all this are norm of day.

Feel free to ask. My advice are free...unlike some ppl who charge for everything...!

Originally posted by freak_of_nature:
This is my first time on here and having read some of the postings i just wanted to ask does it really matter who the next successor is? .

Yes, it definitely matter who the next successor is for following reason
1. The choice of next successor will confirm the belief of many who consider Bohra dawat, hierarchy and Daisme as humbug. It is fake rule by greedy ppl from family of ex-Dai Taher Saiffudin.

2. Current situation reveal that they might be contention for the post of 53rd dai which will further cause split in community. And split is really a big Issue in this iron fisted bohra community rule by Dai-dictator.

There are many other reasons

My question is this, as reformists/progressive Dawoodi Bohra's what are we doing to ensure that we maintain our identity and remain a community at large.

The question here is "What exactly is our Identify?"

I'm born and bred here in the UK and i've noticed that for the last 5-10yrs the community over here in general has not only weaken but there seems to be no unity amongst us i feel we have no direction other than to expose what the kothar are doing etc - surely it's time we concentrated on us and worry less about the 'other side'

I think we are not organized. If we are Organized and in control of our community affair..no doubt we would be kicking some asses by now

Originally posted by humble_servant_us:
What is/was required in this fight was to fight against the non-islamic practice in Bohras, the violation of Quran and sunnah, but for this one has to himself be well versed and strong in religion... I don't think reformist are much different as compared to normal bohras in this matter..

Only those revelutions succeed which are based on achieving the path of truth...

hs[/QB]

I fully agree with everything that you say... however, I want to add a little something here

Everyone Knows what is happening but no one is willing to contribute anything for a change. People expect other person to do the dirty work (fighting khotars) while they just sit and do nothing

Bismillah Hir Rahman Nir Rahim,
I seek refuge with the Most gracious from shaitan accursed,
Dear Mumin110,
Greetings be to those who are the followers of righteous guidance,

110. Help (An-Nasr)
110.001 When Allah's succour and the triumph cometh
110.002 And thou seest mankind entering the religion of Allah in troops,
110.003 Then hymn the praises of thy Lord, and seek forgiveness of Him. Lo! He is ever ready to show mercy.

Jinx

I think i may have under estimated you - i've read your postings and i totally agree with what you've written.

What i can't understand is how such a large group of people (and i'm referring to the Kothar) have been manipulated into following someone who obviously bares no resemblance to the teachings of Islam. Are these people just plain ignorant or is it a question of being in a herd and following the rest of the sheep.

One thing is for sure whatever hold the 'kothar' have over their people, we in the reformist/progressive side need to re-address ourselves and try and do something constructive. In the past 2-3 yrs, here in the uk, several families from the reformist sides have 'crossed' over to the 'other side' - does make me wonder what exactly the reformist side is all about!!?? We're already a very small minority and loosing any number of people to the kothar side leaves a big dent in our community.

Jinx,

What did I say that sounded offensive to you?

Dont you really know? or are you being as ignorant as once upon a time someone called huzaif was???

I guess you can convey what you want, but without swearing.. Same applies to Mumin also...