Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Dear MuslimFirst,
For a while we left the topic of the letter of Sayedna for which things were pretty well resolved.

But the remaining pages of the topic were in regarding to the subtopic...cursing the companions that disobeyed the Prophet.

Your last post continued as follows

I wrote: When salawat is taken at the beginning and end of every khutbah...the name of the Prophet, his family, the caliph rashidin, ajmain are taken!!

You replied:I do listen to Khutbas. When Salawat is taken in the name of the prophet and his Family and Ajmain. I have not heard Imaam specifically mention the name of Khalifas. I will post formula One of them recites before the Khutba. Here in America different Imams recite different invocations to begin Khutba.

---I have yet to hear a sunni imam either in the US or abroad not say as part of the salawat the words caliphas rashidin. Every major sunni scholar in the US takes their names in their audios on the net.

I wrote How do I know that these ppl. were guilty or innocent?---hadiths and historians record it.“

You repliedMany of us know what History and Hadiths record is in gray area. If I was in Jury I would not hang them for what you call crimes.

---dear brother..90% of what you do in the practice of rituals is per hadith..not the Quran.

You wrote If Prophet really wanted to have his dynasty continue then why did he not write it in black and white? Or announce it saying that here is Ali and he is going to take over after I am gone.

---There is a hadith (called Sad Thursday) where the Prophet requested from his companions, just before he died, a pen and paper to write something

According to Ibn 'Abbas: When the time of the death of the Prophet approached while there were some men in the house, and among them was 'Umar Ibn al-Khattab, the Prophet said: "Come near let me write for you a writing after which you will never go astray." 'Umar said: "The Prophet is seriously ill, and you have the Qur’an, so Allah's Book is sufficient for us." The people in the house differed and disputed. Some of them said, "Come near so that Allah's Apostle may write for you a writing after which you will not go astray," while the others said what 'Umar said. When they made much noise and quarreled greatly in front of the Prophet, he said to them, "Go away and leave me." Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was a great disaster that their quarrel and noise prevented Allah's Apostle from writing a statement for them. (Sahih al Bukhari Volume 9 hadith number 468 and Volume 7 hadith 573)

I wrote why do you still curse Abu Lahab and his wife!!?? Maybe you should stop reading surah al'Masad if you truly understand your position!

you replied“surah al'Masad” was revealed by Allah SWT. It is word of Allah. It is he who is cursing Abu Lahab and his wife. (BTW how many Muslim in world know what they are reading when they read Quran?). You keep forgetting. It is not we curse somebody who has offended us but we invoke curse of Allah on them.

---If you read the verse carefully...you will find you in fact are cursing him. Nowhere in the surah is Allah's name mentioned..except the basmala.

You are saying:
Perdition overtake both hands of Abu Lahab, and he will perish. His wealth and what he earns will not avail him. He shall soon burn in fire that flames, and his wife, the bearer of fuel, upon her neck a halter of strongly twisted rope.

This is called a duah...just as we curse satan...we are cursing abu lahab.

You wroteLet me reemphasize what Ulema said about cursing: "As far as cursing Yazeed or any other histiorical personalities, what benefit is there in it? It is neither Fardh, Waajib, Sunnah nor even Mustahabb to curse him. If on the other hand he is not worthy of this curse, the curse will return to the one cursing. Thus, the issue of cursing requires absolute precaution. The method of our senior Ulama is to abstain from cursing him.”(Fataawa Mahmoodiya vol.20 pg.77; Fataawa Rashidiyya pg.76)

---See the problem is two fold. You praise companions...who themselves cursed Maulana Ali...and than paste the opinion of an sunni imam who says to praise and follow the companions..except what they did...that we now feel is wrong!!!! The benefit is separating ourselves from those who opposed ALL the orders of the Prophet!!!

This is SICKENING.

The VERY IDEA of cursing ANYONE

(let alone the people CHOSEN by the Prophet HIMSELF as his friends)

and YOU are making it a part of your religion.
What kind of mud are you made of!!!

You think Rasul had lesser intelligence and wisdom than yourself in choosing his wives and friends such that it is YOU who must be wiser than Him to CURSE and find fault with those who were liked, loved and chosen by the Rasul Himslef.
YOU MUST BE OUT OF YOUR MIND

Dilber

> If you read the verse carefully...you will find you in fact are cursing him. Nowhere in the surah is Allah's name mentioned..except the basmala.

qiyam,

the argument you make here is not as obviously true as you maintain. For one thing, there are a number of places in the Qur'an in which the voice changes from Allah to the reader through the word "Qul". In these places, the reader is unequivocally being told to recite the words that follow, such as 'auzo be rabb ilfalak, or lakum dinukum wa le addin.

In no place that I have seen does the Qur'an set up a command to curse by telling the reader "Qul" etc. If you know of such a place, please point it out.

salaam

If the Quran was revealed in this day and age and prescribed killing in 'defence' and cursing other humans because they 'wronged' the founder, would you accept it as a word of God?

How different all this is from Jesus Christ's injunction to "Love your enemies"!!

Swami Vivekanand has an interesting theory about Muhammad. He thinks that Muhammad was given an opportunity to get enlightened but blew it by becoming partisan to his family, as Shias believe. By making the universal message a monopoly of a dynasty, he made the religion parochial and its adherents narrow-minded cursers and breast-beaters. And they say Islam attracts most converts? I fear for the future of mankind if this religion is adopted by the majority of earth's inhabitants.

The foundation based on such beliefs is indicative of the fact that the Quran was written for a particular time and major portions of it are only relevant to that time.

It is easier to have no accountability for cursing, killing, Jihad's etc. by justifying the fact that it is written in the Quran.

The conscience must come into play, and it will be obvious that it is a dated document that needs amendments as time goes by;....and for some, as time passes by.

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Dear brothers in Islam

I will allow others to participate in this discussion. This has turned into Muslim First Vs. Qiyam.

Let me reemphasize what Ulema said about cursing (I do believe in it):

“As far as cursing any histiorical personalities, what benefit is there in it? It is neither Fardh, Waajib, Sunnah nor even Mustahabb to curse them. If on the other hand they are not worthy of curse, the curse will return to the one cursing. Thus, the issue of cursing requires absolute precaution. The method of our senior Ulama is to abstain from cursing anybody.” (See http://islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=4758)
(Fataawa Mahmoodiya vol.20 pg.77; Fataawa Rashidiyya pg.76)

(Note:I have done some editing)

I challange anybody to point out a specific command in Quran or Sunnah requiring me to curse compainions of the Prophet.
Wasalaam

Br. qiyam

I would like you to send me links to Islamic site in which Khalifas names are invoked all the time. (You may use private mail)

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Bukhari and Muslim in the Sahih, others quote the Holy Prophet as saying: "If anyone frightens and oppresses the people of Medina, Allah will frighten him (i.e., on the Day of Judgement). He will be cursed by Allah, by the angels, and by all humanity. And on the Day of Judgement, Allah will not accept any of his deeds."

Yazid was responsible for the mass slaughter of 10,000 residents of Medina in the year 62H.

Br. Qiyam forgot to mention the nasty words uttered by Umar when the Prophet asked for a pen and paper. He said that the Prophet was talking NONSENSE and the Quran was enough for us. (The same line adopted by Wahabis today). These words were pure blasphemy.

If in a Muslim mohalla today, a woman was assaulted by an outsider, there would be riots. But imagine the daughter of the Prophet being slapped and hurt(which caused miscarriage of Mohsin) on orders of Umar.

Another hadith from the Prophet (also noted by Bukhari) "O Ali, he who injures a single hair of yours, really injures me; he who injures me really injures Allah, and he who injures Allah is cursed by Allah."
That is enough argument to curse AbuBakr, Umar, Muawaiya, Yazid

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My Cursing, chest beating Bohra Brothers

When you are member of cursing cult and you are programmed to curse and beat your chest at all the occassions then it is very hard to deprogramme you.

Very happy cursing and after evry 'cursing and Maatam' may Allah bring 'Sakina' to your heart.

Wasalaam

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I seriously don’t understand why people continually bicker about obscure facts that do not have any bearing on the real spiritual life of an individual in Islam. Please don’t forget that the core message of the religion that Muhammad brought was the Oneness of God. Bickering about what Caliph did what and when to who is like bickering about what Idol is better to worship and why. Its not needed! – and Quran warned people about those who create discord by fighting over things which have no bearing on what Islam is all about.

sh

when presented with facts, MF beats a hasty retreat and hides behind that I cannot deprogramme you and blah blah...

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Br. Simon

So you a response!

Hadith: "If anyone frightens and oppresses the people of Medina, Allah will frighten him (i.e., on the Day of Judgement). He will be cursed by Allah, by the angels, and by all humanity. And on the Day of Judgement, Allah will not accept any of his deeds."

I totally agree with the Hadith. Please tell me who is the Judge? Allah will judge these people. No matter how long or how many times we curse these people will not add to their punishment a bit. By cursing them we are not going to add to our good deeds either. Good deeds are only accumelated by the Ibadah of Allah or by doing good deeds. So what is the point?

Is there a order to curse in above Hadit?
It says Allah will frighten him. Not you or me
It says he will be cursed by Allah and Angels.
Does Allah and Angels sit there and busy themself with Cursing? I think they have better things to do. Here it probably means he will curse them to hell on the day of Judgement.
Same is the case with Humanity. They have better things to do.

So my brother Simon keep doing good deeds of Cursing and remembering faults of people who died 1400 years ago.

I have better things to do.

Wasalaam

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MF & Qiyam,

This is a ludicrous topic and the fact that you guys probably think that this is a religious discussion somehow is sickening (to me).

Next thing I know you might be posting topics such as:

1. Having 4 wives
2. Killing the infidels
3. Fatwas
4. Jihads against the infidels
5. 6 year old brides
6. Proper way to cleanse after taking a dump
7. Personal hygiene and the Quran

Where does this end and common sense take over ?

(…for all I know there may be Hadiths and Quranic quotes against common sense regarding ANTI Fatwa, Jihad, Polygamy, Peace loving , non-sand-cleansing people……)

You still have a chance; please USE the common sense that a Higher Being, or God, has blessed you with.

Dear MuslimFirst,
It is no point discussing this further with you. I have posted three times the ayats from the Quran stating the kafir and munafiqins will be cursed by Allah, the malikat, and mankind..all of them!! The definition is based on anyone who is a munafiq or kafir based on what Allah and the Prophet define as a munafiq or kafir...NOT WHAT YOU FEEL! The sunni and shiah ulema both agree on this...apparently you don't. I posted hadith of the same nature...

Regarding the surah al'masad...Br. Khairan..nowhere in the surah does Allah say He is cursing them in particular...like in other places.

So again we look at the actions of the first three kaliphas (of which you can't deny)...they are MUNAFIQ based on the defintions provided by Allah and Prophet. You say..so what's the point. The point is shiahs don't praise them as part of their aqida (belief)...sunnis do!

Your reference for khutbahs:
According to ISNA the rules for the khateeb:
Say:
Bismil Lahir Rahmanir Raheem
Al Hamdu Lillahi Rabbil 'Alameen.
Wassalatu Wassalamu 'Ala Muhammad wa 'Ala Alihi Wa Sahbihi (Companions) wa Sallim.

Now based on sunni aqida...the best companions were Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthaman, and Ali (in this order).

According to Imam Tahawi Aqida:

92. We love the Companions of the Messenger of Allah but we do not go to excess in our love for any one individual among them nor do we disown any one of them. We hate anyone who hates them or does not speak well of them and we only speak well of them. Love of them is a part of Islam, part of belief and part of excellent behaviour, while hatred of them is unbelief, hypocrisy and rebelliousness.

93. We confirm that, after the death of the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, the caliphate went first to Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, may Allah be pleased with him, thus proving his excellence and superiority over the rest of the Muslims; then to 'Umar ibn alKhattab, may Allah be pleased with him; then to 'Uthman, may Allah be pleased with him; and then to 'Ali ibn Abi Talib, may Allah be pleased with him. These are the Rightly-Guided Caliphs and upright leaders.

94. We bear witness that the ten who were named by the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and who were promised the Garden by him, will be in the Garden, as the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, whose word is truth, bore witness that they would be. The ten are: Abu Bakr, 'Umar, 'Uthman, 'Ali, Talhah, Zubayr, Sa'd, Sa'id, 'Abdur-Rahman ibn 'Awf and Abu 'Ubaydah ibn al-Jarrah whose title was the trustee of this Ummah, may Allah be pleased with all of them.

95. Anyone who speaks well of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and his wives and offspring, who are all pure and untainted by any impurity, is free from the accusation of hypocrisy.

More recently persons like Hamza Yusuf, Dr. Ahmad Sakr, Dr. Siddiqi, etc. Recite the names of the caliphs at the beginning of their khutbahs..see Islam.org and Jannah.com for audio.

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Br. qiyam

AS

You Posted: "Dear MuslimFirst,
It is no point discussing this further with you."

Brother you really like to have last word.

You made the choice and I will respect it.
I would have like to respond but you set the rule so I wish you happy 'Cursing'

May Allah hear your 'curse' and increase punishment for people who have hurt those who you have taken as 'Taghut'.

Wasalaam

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Taghut

The word “Taghut” covers a wide range of meanings: It means anything worshipped other then the REAL GOD [ALLAH], i.e. all the falls deities. It may be satan, devils, idols, stones, sun, stars, angels, human beings (DAI, MULLAS, BHAI SAHEBS, SEHZADA’S ETC, ETC,) e.g, Messengers of Allah, who were falsely worshipped and taken as Taghut. Likewise Saints, graves, rulers and leaders (once again Dai)who are falsely worshipped and wrongly followed. Some time Taghut means a false judge who goives a false judgement.

For reference to “Taghut” in Quran please study Ayahs 2:256- 257, 4:51, 4:60, 4:76, 5:60, 16:36, and 17:39

Comments in (***) are mine

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Dear MuslimFirst,
My statement was not meant to end the discussion...just state my feeling of your debating tactics. You jump from one argument...and when that argument is defeated...you jump to your an argument that is not based on anything..but your opinion. Your opinion is not what this discussion is about. You have every right to have your opinion. But then you can't use religious edicts to support it...because they don't...neither from sunni nor shiah sources. You reference ayats of the Quran to support your case...which in fact have nothing to do with the topic. I quoted ayats...which you have yet confine to yourself...though every ayat of the Quran applies to all mankind.

Br. Muslim First mocks us by saying happy cursing. In effect, we are following in the Prophet's footsteps and May Allah always keep us following his path and protect us from this mockery.
Another of Prophet's curses:
The Holy Prophet saw Abu Sufyan riding a donkey. Mu'awiya was pulling it from the front, and his son, Yazid, was pushing it from behind. The Prophet said, 'Curse be upon the rider, the puller, and the pusher.'
This one has been recorded by Tabari.

simon,
it would be nice if you provided the full reference to the arabic text (i.e. Tabari I, 1818).

It is lack of reason that allows people to follow those who use curses. Even when these cursers claim to prophets, imams, dais or any other person talking for God.

If God sends a message other than love, even love for enemies, then it is worthy of rejection.

And hadiths are not to believed. They are written by muslims, non-muslims and others with their own agenda.

To those who support cursing:

I would appreciate hearing your interpretations of the following verses -

Surah 42:6, alShura
And those who take as protectors others besides Him, God doth watch over them; and thou art not the disposer of their affairs.

42:37Those who avoid the greater crimes and shameful deeds, and, when they are angry even then forgive;

Surah 45:14, alJathiya
Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not look forward to the Days of God: it is for him to recompense each people according to what they have earned.

These seem to me to fly in the face of ahadith that support cursing. Also, I reiterate Porus' comments on ahadith with the following hadith:

"The Qur'an may abrogate my words, but my words may never abrogate the Qur'an."

salaam

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Br. Simon

AS

Our prophet strongly forbade Grave Worshipping and Kadam Bosi. Why are you not following him on that account?

I would hope you will answer rather then your Mulla qiyam.

Wasalaam

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A whole lot of discussions have taken place on the question of kadambosi and more specifically sajda of shukr. Most of the 'pro' arguments were done by Br. Qiyam and I also added my two cents once in a while.
Regarding grave worshipping, let me add what the Sunni Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal had to say
"Imam al-Dhahabi said: "Ahmad ibn Hanbal was asked about touching the Prophet's saws grave and kissing it and he saw nothing wrong with it. His son 'Abd Allah related this from him. If it is asked: "Why did the Companions not do this?" We reply [this reply also applies to the identical question about the celebration of Mawlid]: "Because they saw him with their very eyes when he was alive! Enjoyed his presence directly! Kissed his very hand! Nearly fought each other over the remnants of his ablution water! Shared his purified hair on the day of the greater Pilgrimage! And even if he spat it would virtually not fall except in someone's hand so that he could pass it over his face! Since we have not had the tremendous fortune of sharing in this, we throw ourselves on his grave as a mark of commitment, reverence, and acceptance, even to kiss it! Do you not see what Thabit al-Bunani did when he kissed the hand of Anas ibn Malik and placed it on his face saying: -This is the hand that touched the hand of the Messenger of Allah saws ? Muslims are not moved to these matters except by their excessive love for the Prophet saws, as they are ordered to love Allah and the Prophet saws more than their own lives, their children, all human beings, their property, and Paradise and its maidens! There are even some believers that love Abu Bakr and `Umar more than themselves!!" Al-Dhahabi, Mu'jam al-Shuyukh (1:73 #58).

Therefore grave worshipping as you call it, (I would rather call it visiting the graves) is not only a Bohra thing or Shia thing but also followed by a major sect of the Sunnis.

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Br. Khairan

You will not get explainatioin of Ayas you posted.

for 42:37

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=42&tid=47260

Al-Fawahish iis explained in Surat Al-A`raf.,Ayah 33

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=7&tid=17670

In fact you can go thru Tasfsir Ibn Kathei at

http://www.tafsir.com/

One thing missing is foot notes at the bottom which gives references to Hadiths used in explainations. I have purchased all 10 volumes.

Wasalaam

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Br. Khairan

For 45:14
See
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=45&tid=48307

For “Forgiving or exacting Revenge on Wrongdoers”
See Tafsir of 42:40-42 at
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=42&tid=47290

Wasalaam

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Dear Khairan,
If you read Br. MuslimFirst response...you will see my point in reference to both your arguments. You see the ayats referenced have nothing to do with the topic. If someone does ME wrong..it is better to forgive them. The ayats refer nothing to what should be done with a muslims who were close companions...going against the orders of the Prophet. I have no right to to make judgement...I must ONLY do what Allah and the Prophet said to do for those who oppose them or misguides!!! You see their actions (those companions in reference) dedictated a large part of the current muslim edicts to the ummah. The actions of the first kaliphas brought in the ideas that the leader of the ummah can be elected....nothing of the Quran or sunnah allow this. Their judgement were accepted as truth...when they were not authorized to give judgement in the first place.

You see these "companions" did nothing to ME...but they abused the authority of the Prophet. Why is it Islamic law to kill someone who blasphimizes the Prophet name...yet I should not curse those degraded the Prophet's command...even though I am required to cursed those that do????!!!

[5.32] For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our apostles came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land. The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement, except those who repent before you have them in your power; so know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[2.159/160] Surely those who conceal the clear proofs and the guidance that We revealed after We made it clear in the Book for men, these it is whom Allah shall curse, and those who curse shall curse them (too). Except those who repent and amend and make manifest (the truth), these it is to whom I turn (mercifully); and I am the Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.

In the ayats, note that only those who repent and disclose the truth are forgiven and should not be cursed.

an added statement:

I would assume it is agreed that those whom Allah curses, we as followers of Allah, curse. We have no right to curse whom Allah says cannot be cursed.

This is the reason we curse Satan and say ahzubi'Allahi min nish Shatan nir Rajim...I seek refuge with Allah from Shaytan the Cursed. Shaytan has done nothing to ME...yet I curse him every time I recite the Quran. Why??? Because Allah and the Prophet said to. Guess what...those who disobey Allah and His Messenger are also said to be cursed!

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Br. qiyam

AS

Before we start qouting Quran translation willy nelly let me post the following warning:

It is prohibited to indulge in Tafsir by mere opinion. Muhammad bin jarir reported that Ibn ‘Abbas said that the Prophet (sal) said:

“Whoever explains the Qur’an with his opinion or with what he has no knowledge of, then let him assume hise seat in the Fire.”

Wasalaam

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Br. Qiyam is posting Ayas from Quran without properly understating why and when they were revealed. I do not claim to be a scholar but I can read a good Tafsir and understand Quran. Fortunately I just discovered that Tafsir Ibn Kathir is on line. See http://www.tafsir.com/ for introduction and tafsir.com for complete Tafsir. Unfortunately on line Tafsir do not have footnotes; I am going to copy Tafsir of 2:159-161 with footnotes.


(159. Verily, those who conceal the clear proofs, evidences and the guidance, which We have sent down, after We have made it clear for the People in the Book, they are the ones cursed by Allah and cursed by the cursers .)

(160. Except those who repent and do righteous deeds, and openly declare (the truth which they concealed). These, I will accept their repentance. And I am the One Who accepts repentance, the Most Merciful .)

(161. Verily, those who disbelieve, and die while they are disbelievers, it is they on whom is the curse of Allah and of the angels and of mankind, combined .)

(162. They will abide therein (under the curse in Hell), their punishment will neither be lightened nor will they be reprieved ).

The Eternal Curse for Those Who hide Religious Commandments

These Ayat sternly warn against those who hide the clear signs that the Messengers were sent with which guide to the correct path and beneficial guidance for the hearts, after Allah has made such aspects clear for His servants through the Books that He revealed to His Messengers. Abu Al-`Aliyah said that these Ayat, "were revealed about the People of the Scripture who hid the description of Muhammad .'SAW'[Ibn Abi Hatim 1:170], Allah then states that everything curses such people for this evil act. Certainly, just as everything asks for forgiveness for the scholar, even the fish in the sea and the bird in the air, then those who hide knowledge are cursed by Allah and by the cursers.

A Hadith in the Musnad, narrated through several chains of narrators, that strengthens the overall judgment of the Hadith, states that Abu Hurayrah narrated that Allah's Messenger said:

((Whoever was asked about knowledge that one has, but he hid it, then a bridle made of fire will be tied around his mouth on the Day of Resurrection.))[Ahmed 2:495]

It is also recorded by Al-Bukhari that Abu Hurayrah said, "If it was not for an Ayah in Allah's Book, I would not have narrated a Hadith for anyone:

( Verily, those who conceal the clear proofs, evidences and the guidance, which We have sent down, )[Fath Al-Bari 1:258]

Mujahid said, "When the earth is struck by drought, the animals say, `This is because of the sinners among the Children of Adam. May Allah curse the sinners among the Children of Adam.'[Ibn Abi Hatim 1:175]

Abu Al-`Aliyah, Ar-Rabi` bin Anas and Qatadah said that

( and cursed by the cursers )

means that the angels and the believers will curse them.[Ibn Abi Hatim 1:174]

Moreover, a Hadith states that everything, including the fish in the sea, asks for forgiveness for the scholars. The Ayah (2:159 above) states that those who hide the knowledge will be cursed, (in this life and) on the Day of Resurrection, by Allah, the angels, all humanity, and those who curse (including the animals) each in its own distinct way. Allah knows best.

From this punishment, Allah excluded all who repent to Him:


( Except those who repent and do righteous deeds, and openly declare (the truth which they concealed). )

This Ayah refers to those who regret what they have been doing and correct their behavior and, thus, explain to the people what they have been hiding.

( These, I will accept their repentance. And I am the One Who accepts repentance, the Most Merciful .)

This Ayah also indicates that those who used to call to innovation, or even disbelief, and repent to Allah, then Allah will forgive them. Allah afterwards states that those who disbelieve in Him and remain in this state until they die, then:

( it is they on whom is the curse of Allah and of the angels and of mankind, combined. They will abide therein (under the curse in Hell).)

Therefore, they will suffer the eternal curse until the Day of Resurrection and after that in the fire of Jahannam, where,

( their punishment will neither be lightened )

Hence, the torment will not be decreased for them,

( nor will they be reprieved .)

The torment will not be changed or tempered for even an hour. Rather, it is continuous and eternal. We seek refuge with Allah from this evil end.

Cursing the Disbelievers is allowed

There is no disagreement that it is lawful to curse the disbelievers. `Umar bin Al-Khattab and the Imams after him used to curse the disbelievers in their Qunut (a type of supplication) during the prayer and otherwise. As for cursing a specific disbeliever, some scholars stated that it is not allowed to curse him, because we do not know how Allah will make his end. Others said that it is allowed to curse individual disbelievers. For proof, they mention the story about the man who was brought to be punished repeatedly for drinking (alcohol), a man said, "May Allah curse him! He is being brought repeatedly (to be flogged for drinking).'' Allah's Messenger said:

((Do not curse him, for he loves Allah and His Messenger)).[Abdur-Razzaq 7:381, similar with Al-Bukhari, No. 6780]

This Hadith indicates that it is allowed to curse those who do not love Allah and His Messenger . Allah knows best.

(163. And your Ilah (God) is One Ilah (God ـ Allah), La ilaha illa Huwa (there is none who has the right to be worshipped but He), the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful .)

In this Ayah, Allah mentions that He is the only deity, and that He has no partners or equals. He is Allah, the One and Only, the Sustainer, and there is no deity worthy of worship except Him. He is the Most Gracious ـ Ar-Rahman, the Most Merciful ـ Ar-Rahim. We explained the meanings of these two Names in the beginning of Surat Al-Fatihah. Shahr bin Hawshab reported that Asma' bint Yazid bin As-Sakan narrated that Allah's Messenger said:

((Allah's Greatest Name is contained in these two Ayat)):

( And your Ilah (God) is One Ilah (God ـ Allah ),

( La ilaha illa Huwa (there is none who has the right to be worshipped but He), the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful .) and:

( Alif-Lam-Mim. Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), Al-Haiyul-Qaiyum (the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists ).) (3:1, 2)''

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For reference see following links:

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=4216

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=4244

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Wasalaam

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Brothers and sisters
Br. Qiyam also posted Ayah 5:32
Tafsir of 5:32 deals with:
Human Beings Should Respect the Sanctity of Other Human Beings
Again br. Qiyam has no idea what it is about. Please go tho following link and study for yourself
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=5&tid=13723

Wasalaam

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Yes...I have no idea on tafsir of Quran...neither does a sunni historians or muhaddithun that Br. MuslimFirst leaps so much faith on. This is why I rely solely on the teaching of those who were authorized to explain the Quran (the Imams)...not those who give their opinion...which is what the sunni alims do. The tafsir of Ibn Kathir are the opinion of Ibn Kathir based on a collaboration of hadith from various sources. As we both know...anyone can gather ayats and hadiths to support their opinion (tafsir).

The entire post of Br. MuslimFirst wrote to support his case...actually goes against his and supports what I wrote! How ironic.

Those who hide knowledge are persons like first three kaliphas who took over the ummah when only Maulana Ali was so authorized by the Prophet.

And regarding cursing...again what did Br. MuslimFirst post:

Abu Al-`Aliyah, Ar-Rabi` bin Anas and Qatadah said that

( and cursed by the cursers )

means that the angels and the believers will curse them.[Ibn Abi Hatim 1:174]

Moreover, a Hadith states that everything, including the fish in the sea, asks for forgiveness for the scholars. The Ayah (2:159 above) states that those who hide the knowledge will be cursed, (in this life and) on the Day of Resurrection, by Allah, the angels, all humanity, and those who curse (including the animals) each in its own distinct way. Allah knows best.

According to this Allah, the angels, and all humanity and animals (didn't have that one) shall curse them in this life and on Day of Resurrection. The only salvation is repentment...and this is something the kaliphas nor those other companions did NOT do. How many times did I write that before.

Thank you Br. MuslimFirst for that helpful bit of knowledge that he posted...and please read your own posts once in a while!