Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Dear Mumins,

I understand that "Shiasm" was started by Abdulla Ibn Saba (A Jew cum Hypocrite).

Could anyone throw light on this? Since we Bohris are main branch of "Shiasm" we need to know whether are we in the right track ? or who is in right track? If not we can defend the accusition with solid information. In this era of information everything should be crysetl clear isn't it?

This is my honest Question. I would appreciate valid reply from authentic sources.

Thanks

Shiaism was started by Abdullah ibn Saba just like christianity was started by Peter and not Jesus Christ (as). Peter was a jew too!!

Hazrat Ali's example is like that of Jesus Christ, where one set of Believers in Allah assasinated him and another set of Believers in Allah believed in him to be Allah.

Anajmi,

Nice to see you getting a kick out of believing in sensational myths. Nice, but unfortunate.

Here's to those who need "proof":
http://www.shianews.com/hi/articles/islam/0000163.php

(Funny they didn't need proof in believing these stories).

Oh, by the way, Anajmi... yes Peter was a Jew, and a disciple of Jesus. Perhaps that is not surprising because Jesus himself was a Jew and was sent to the Jews! Now that's sensational!

Want another Jew? How about Abu Hurairah, the greatest narrator of "sahih" hadith.

Br, Musllim,

You may believe Jesus Christ was a jew, according to the quran he was a muslim.

According to the quran, Jesus Christ did not preach Christianity, He preached Islam, so if you say that Peter preached what Jesus preached, then I am afraid you are wrong. Jesus was sent to the jews to bring them to Islam. That is why he was killed by the jews. And when I say that Peter preached christianity, I am saying what history says. The entire religion of christianity is based upon a vision of jesus that peter claims to have seen after his supposed death. The book of revelations is based upon that vision.

Same is the case with Abdullah ibn Saba. To determine the truth, sometimes you have to study the cause and effect. Articles like the one you posted the link for, abound by the dozens with either points of views. Although Shias will deny this, but they believe that prophet hood was for Hazrat Ali but Jibrael (as) made a mistake. And I would know, I am a shia by birth.

Bohras also believe that when the prophet (saw) ascended to the 7th heaven during mehraj, he was allowed a glimpse of the hand of the Almighty Allah and the ring on his finger was the same as the ring he had seen on the hands of Ali.

Shias also believe that the Quran and the Nahjul Balagah are so similar that it is hard to say which one was written by Allah and which one by Ali.

With the existence of multiple explanations for a complex phenomenon, the simplest one tends to be the correct one. that is where Abdullah ibn Saba comes into the picture.

So no I do not get a kick out of believing in myths. I am a shia too, why will I jeopardize my own hereafter. But I am amongst those who believe that they can be wrong, so it becomes easier to search for the truth than for those who believe they cannot be wrong.

As far as Abu Hurairah is concerned, are you suggesting that every hadith quoted by him is false?

Remember we need to figure out the cause and effect. Have his hadith led to muslims deviating from what Islam is and from what is mentioned in the quran?

"Although Shias will deny this, but they believe that prophet hood was for Hazrat Ali but Jibrael (as) made a mistake. And I would know, I am a shia by birth."

- actualy, this is a rumour that was started by the Christian Crusaders, as stated in their accounts of Shia Islam. See, The Assassin Legends by Farhad Daftary

Jesus and Simon Peter, and all his disciples were all ethnically Jewish or Israelite.

As was Prophet Jacob, Prophet Joseph, Prophet Moses, and many others...

According to anajmi's line of thinking, Islam is a conspiracy started by the Jews!

Christianity was starte by Paul, not Peter.

It was Paul who said he had a vision of Jesus after his death.

Anajmi, you better get your facts straight..or risk further displaying your utter stupidity.

Ismaili

You are right. I got confused between Peter and Paul. See we always used to sing this in our missionary school back in bombay -

Peter and Paul went to pray -
they met a lame man on the way -
he held out is palms and asked them for alms and this is what Peter did say.....

Anyway, thanks for clarifying that.

And according to Anajmi's line of thinking, Shiaism is a conspiracy started by the Jews. Islam was started way before that. If you had read the quran you would've known that but I guess you are still waiting for a translation from Aga Khan!!

As far as Jesus being a jew, the quran says that is a muslim now am I supposed to believe you and get burnt in hell or am I to believe in the quran. At least you agree that Christianity was started by Paul and not by Jesus

As far as Jacob, Moses, Joseph are concerned, again according to the quran they were all muslims.

So i would suggest you get a translation of the quran from the aga khan or risk further displaying your utter stupidity.

Assalamu Alaykum,

Qur'an may be able to help us a little bit here:

"The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the which We have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions therein..." (Ash-Shura 42:13)

Further, Jews claim that Judaism was initiated by Abraham. However, Qur'an clearly guides Muslims in this area"

"And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam." (Al-Baqarah 2:132)

I think this reflects on the issue under hand and explains it well.

Best Regards

Yes, it is Muslim belief that all prophets essentially brought the same message of submission to one God and that the religion followed by Jews at the time of the prophet was not the same as that brought by Moses.

However the word "Jew" has 2 meanings: a) religion and b) ethnicity. Jesus, Moses and others were certainly ethnically Jewish by virtue of being a descendants of Jacob.

Musalmaan, nice to see you back.

Thank you.
Nice to see old nicks around.

Well, I was under the impression that the religion followed by the Jews was known as Judaism connected with Juda. Can someone throw some light on who Juda is and how he is connected to Jacob?

Akber Allahbadi has said:
Mazhabi behas mein' ne kee hee naheen'
Faltoo aql mujh mein' thee hee naheen'

Very well Summed up Saifuddinbhai--It really goes thro the roof when so many names are mentioned for references & some of them are so old & not authentic anymore- I can Quote a agood Gujarati Sher from Jalan Matri"s Ghazal as
Shraddha no jo ho vishay to,puravani shi jaroor?
ke Quran man to payanbar ni sahi nathi!-------
It means That faith does need no proofs as none of the pages of Quran have been signed by the great Mohamed! So we can go on & on --------

It is sad to see intelligent people like yourselves commit blasphemy by quoting idiotic poets. The quran says debate with the people of the book but do so in an extremely polite manner. Of course we being lesser humans, miss out the polite part.

And as far as signature of prophet Mohammed (saw) is concerned he didn't have to as Allah has signed every page of the book. Of course recognizing that signature is something that not all of us can do.

And then to quote another poet. "For those who believe, no explanation is neccessary and for those who don't, no explanation is possible."