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Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2003 1:57 pm
by MOHD HUSSAIN
Report from Malumaat.com today-------------------------Mumbai: (6th Safar ul Muzaffar 1424- 8th April 2003)


Jain Spiritual Leader meets with Aqa Maula TUS

Jain Community Leader Acharya His Holiness Pujya Mahapragya shriji met with Huzurala TUS today at Saifee Mahal. Acharya Mahapragya, heads the Terapanthi Jains, a sect amongst the Jains.
-----------------------------------------------------Please visit the site & look at the pictures &see the cotrasts in the living styles of two -One is a real Dharmaguru & the other one is a Dhanguru- One has denounced material possesions & the other loves to loot & collect the same- one is in simple clothes without shoes & the other is in well ironed malamal clothes sitting on well decorated chair with a pillow under the feet-- It looks like Syedna has lot to learn from this Guru of simplicity! can somebody elaborate on why Syedna is suddenly after these non bohra celebrities besides those corrupted thug politicians who protect his illegal vast financial empire!

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2003 2:27 pm
by qiyam
Dear Mhd. Hussain,
Please look at the pictures again.

Both persons, Sayedna and Guru, are in the same type of chair...Sayedna's has a white cloth over it to keep his clothes pak. Remember, they are in saifee mahal.

Sayedna is wearing a plain siyo kurta with a topi...bohra typical dress. The Guru is wearing a plain cloth with a mouth cover...typical Jain dress.

Islam and Jainism have many basis differences in belief...so to compare is not correct. Allah says to be thankful and share what you have, because it is the barakat of Allah...not to denounce it....as the Jain do. The Prophet says to dress properly (not lavishly or pauperly) for the position Allah has placed you in.

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 2:17 am
by saif
Talking about Saifee Mahal (Palace), Qiyam:

Ever since I saw that shot of the British tank ramming into the palace doors at Basra, Sahir's verse has been humming in my mind:

Yeh mahloN, yeh takhtoN, ye taajoN ki DUNIYA
Yeh insaaN ke dushman samajoN ki DUNIYA
Yeh daulaut ke bhooke rivaajoN ki DUNIYA
Yeh DUNIYA agar mill bhi jaaye to kya hai?

Translations for Qiyam

This world of palaces, thrones and crowns
Where people are downtrodden by society
Where wealth is the only hunger
Even if I win this world, what of it?

"What if you win the whole world, but yet lose your soul"

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 12:53 pm
by whoami
Mohd Hussain

All communities need to build relationships with others. In doing this we build mutual understanding and trust which in turns leads to greater cooperation that benefits both parties. If you were Sayedna would you not seek to have relations with the heads of other communities? Once again i find it hard to comprehend why you have an issue with this?

It seems to me that you don't have anything better to do then make spurious comments about events that you percieve may cause sensation and build yet further resentment amongst our already schismed people. This does not help the reformist cause. You further entrench and empower those corrupt, power-hungry people, already in the the higher echelons of our communities and give them further ammunition to dismiss you and your issues outright.

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 2:29 pm
by MOHD HUSSAIN
Br Qiyam ; You did not get my message of simplicity &renouncement of worldly possesions by Jain muni as compared to our Dai-What about the big Siafee & Badri mahals& Jain Munis don't suck their followers & ask the bounty of money from their followers-So Qiyam Please wake up _there are no similarities but huge differences & our dai can learn some lessons from !

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:38 pm
by MOHD HUSSAIN
Dear Shaikh: Your comments are weltaken-I can not tell whose side you are!Yes i have an issue of Syedna greeting those corrupt politicians in India & Abroad so that he can escape his legal scrutiny of his vast financial empire- He shoud have learnt a lesson from the Gujarat riots that those same politicians turned against the dawoodi bohras!I applaud his inter religious dialogues if they are sincere & not showy & he follows up & not make just tamasha of one time for his pictures in the newspapers as the great humanitarian! Think it over brother!

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 5:28 pm
by qiyam
Dear Mhd. Hussain,
I got your message...but you didn't understand the point I was making....Islam doesn't require you give up anything in this world (except what is harm). To live like a pauper on purpose is one thing for self purpose...to make it a tenant of faith is another. Islam doesn't require you to live like Jains. So what you call a noble way of life, is not noble for everyone.

"don't suck their followers & ask the bounty of money from their followers"

--This is an uneducated statement. If your refering to collecting of zakat and khums, then you are deny a pillar of the faith. You would be saying the same of the Prophet...who sent companions to collect the same.

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 6:08 pm
by ponga bhori
MH,

Does Moulana too pays Zakat and if to whom???
Guess cannot ask, to Immam Tayeb???

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2003 6:31 am
by jinx
Originally posted by ponga bhori:
MH,

Does Moulana too pays Zakat and if to whom???
Guess cannot ask, to Immam Tayeb???
Great question

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2003 2:07 pm
by mumin110
FOr your info, there is a link in dawat ni zabaan on malumaat.com which has the complete conversations between the Jain Leader and Syedna TUS. BUt unfortunately you wont understand, because I am sure you can read or write arabic.

Reformers only get taught in English i assume.

But I will translate a few excerpts for you..

The Jain leader was at Saifee Mahal for one Hour.

One one point, Syedna TUS asked for water.. The Jain leader was offered water too but he said I only drink Boiled water..
but after 2 mins, he said I will drink the water you offer only if Syedna TUS pours it for me in the glass that he was carrying..
They NEVER share water with anyone.. even the hindus as far as i know...but he drank half the glass and gave the remaining to his heir apparent and said you also take benefit of this water poured by Syedna..

Even outside spiritual leaders acknowledge the spirituality of Aqa Maula TUS.
But a munafiq is pre-ordanied that he will never accept the true position of the Dai or Imam..

Abu Lahab and Abu Sufyan were Rasulullah SAW relatives or uncles but they couldnt see the light.. and there are many many examples....in History..

Muwayiah and Yazid were distant cousins of teh prophet but turned out to be the worst enemies of Islam. So, it is not a surprise that munafiqs like you will do so much enmity towards dawat and scrutinize every single thing...

Islam embodies Submission and in this case, the representative of Imam uz Zaman AS is Aqa Maula TUS and submission to him is imperative to remain a Dawoodi Bohra, otherwise you are free to leave at will...

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2003 2:26 pm
by MOHD HUSSAIN
dear Qiyam: you are wrongly comparing The great prophet with the person like Syedna-The prophet did not collect zakat & khoums for the benefit of their families or build those saifee & badri mahals!He & Imam Ali used to wear simple clothes & eat simple foods So you do'nt have to go that far to learn good lesson!why don't you mention these things when you compare your Syedna to the prophet level? The shirk!!!!!!!!Jain munis come closer to following their predecessors!

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2003 3:16 pm
by qiyam
Originally posted by MOHD HUSSAIN:
dear Qiyam: you are wrongly comparing The great prophet with the person like Syedna-The prophet did not collect zakat & khoums for the benefit of their families or build those saifee & badri mahals!He & Imam Ali used to wear simple clothes & eat simple foods So you do'nt have to go that far to learn good lesson!why don't you mention these things when you compare your Syedna to the prophet level? The shirk!!!!!!!!Jain munis come closer to following their predecessors!
Firstly, I didn't compare....the Dai is following the ordained act of collection of zakat and khums as instituted by the Prophet. NOWHERE DID I COMPARE ANYONE!!! Secondly, the Prophet and Maulana Ali lived a way that helped them...they didn't restrict anyone else (even other members of the ahlul bayt like Imams Hasan or Husayn) to live their way. Thirdly, the Fatimi Imams lived in grandur palaces then Sayedna...would you say the same of them? Of course, if you actually read Fatimi history, you'd know their lives were still simple....just as Sayedna's life IS.

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2003 3:38 pm
by Danish
In the name of GOD, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
I seek refuge in GOD from Satan the cursed.
complete conversations between the Jain Leader and Syedna TUS. BUt unfortunately you wont understand, because I am sure you can read or write arabic.
You mean to say the Jain Leader conversed with Syedna in Arabic. If not, then how did it got translated and where is the true picture (orginal language conversed in).
Even outside spiritual leaders acknowledge the spirituality of Aqa Maula TUS. But a munafiq is pre-ordanied that he will never accept the true position of the Dai or Imam..
[2:106] When we abrogate any miracle, or cause it to be forgotten, we produce a better miracle, or at least an equal one. Do you not recognize the fact that GOD is Omnipotent?

[2:107] Do you not recognize the fact that GOD possesses the kingship of the heavens and the earth; that you have none besides GOD as your Lord and Master?

[2:109] Many followers of the scripture would rather see you revert to disbelief, now that you have believed. This is due to jealousy on their part, after the truth has become evident to them. You shall pardon them, and leave them alone, until GOD issues His judgment. GOD is Omnipotent.

[6:35] If their rejection gets to be too much for you, you should know that even if you dug a tunnel through the earth, or climbed a ladder into the sky, and produced a miracle for them (they still would not believe). Had GOD willed, He could have guided them, unanimously. Therefore, do not behave like the ignorant ones.

[6:36] The only ones to respond are those who listen. GOD resurrects the dead; they ultimately return to Him. [6:37] They said, "If only a certain sign could come down to him from his Lord!" Say, "GOD is able to send down a sign, but most of them do not know".

There is no such thing as the 'miracles of aqa maula' or of any human.
Islam embodies Submission and in this case, the representative of Imam uz Zaman AS is Aqa Maula TUS and submission to him is imperative to remain a Dawoodi Bohra, otherwise you are free to leave at will...
Submission is ONLY to GOD Almighty and not humans. Every human, regardless of their 'positions', are thrown on this earth to redeem themselves. Thus one must call upon and submit to GOD Almighty at all costs. Be HE glorified.

It is imperative to call yourself a Muslim and not differentiate, thus causing divisions. Regardless of how pious you are, idolworship is an unforgiveable sin. Everytime a new "guy" comes along as your leader who does not uphold GOD's command as ordained in the Quran, you make him your idol. How many gods have you collected so far?

Some of the verses of the Quran are worth quoting:
[3:69] Some followers of the scripture wish to lead you astray, but they only lead themselves astray, without perceiving. [3:70] O followers of the scripture, why do you reject these revelations of GOD though you bear witness (that this is the truth)? [3:71] O followers of the scripture, why do you confound the truth with falsehood, and conceal the truth, knowingly?

[6:159] Those who divide themselves into sects do not belong with you. Their judgment rests with GOD, then He will inform them of everything they had done. [6:160] Whoever does a righteous work receives the reward for ten, and the one who commits a sin is requited for only one. No one suffers the slightest injustice.

[7:34] For each community, there is a predetermined life span. Once their interim comes to an end, they cannot delay it by one hour, nor advance it.

[7:59] We sent Noah to his people, saying, "O my people, worship GOD; you have no other god beside Him. I fear for you the retribution of an awesome day". [7:60] The leaders among his people
said, "We see that you are far astray". [7:61] He said, "O my people, I am not astray; I am a messenger from the Lord of the universe. [7:62] I deliver to you the messages of my Lord, and I advise you, and I know from GOD what you do not know. [7:63] Is it too much of a wonder that a reminder should come to you from your Lord, through a man like you, to warn you, and to lead you to righteousness, that you may attain mercy?" [7:64] They rejected him. Consequently, we saved him and those with him in the ark, and we drowned those who rejected our revelations; they were blind. [7:65] To Aad we sent their brother Hood. He said, "O my people, worship GOD; you have no other god beside Him. Would you then observe righteousness?" [7:66] The leaders who disbelieved among his people said, "We see that you are behaving foolishly, and we think that you are a liar". [7:67] He said, "O my people, there is no foolishness in me; I am a messenger from the Lord of the universe. [7:68] I deliver to you my Lord's messages, and I am honestly advising you. [7:69] Is it too much of a wonder that a message should come to you from your Lord, through a man like you, to warn you? Recall that He made you inheritors after the people of Noah, and multiplied your number. Remember GOD's blessings, that you may succeed".[7:70] They said, "Did you come to make us worship GOD alone, and abandon what our parents used to worship? We challenge you to bring the doom you threaten us with, if you are truthful". [7:71] He said, "You have incurred condemnation and wrath from your Lord. Do you argue with me in defense of innovations you have fabricated - you and your parents - which were never authorized by GOD? Therefore, wait and I will wait along with you".

[7:85] To Midyan we sent their brother Shuaib. He said, "O my people, worship GOD; you have no other god beside Him. Proof has come to you from your Lord. You shall give full weight and full measure when you trade. Do not cheat the people out of their rights. Do not corrupt the earth after it has been set straight. This is better for you, if you are believers. [7:86] Refrain from blocking every path, seeking to repel those who believe from the path of GOD, and do not make it crooked. Remember that you used to be few and He multiplied your number. Recall the consequences for the wicked. [7:87] Now that some of you have believed in what I was sent with, and some have disbelieved, wait until GOD issues His judgment between us; He is the best judge". [7:88] The arrogant leaders among his people said, "We will evict you, O Shuaib, together with those who believed with you, from our town, unless you revert to our religion". He said, "Are you going to force us? [7:89] We would be blaspheming against GOD if we reverted to your religion after GOD has saved us from it. How could we revert back to it against the will of GOD our Lord? Our Lord's knowledge encompasses all things. We have put our trust in GOD. Our Lord, grant us a decisive victory over our people. You are the best supporter". [7:90] The disbelieving leaders among his people said, "If you follow Shuaib, you will be losers". [7:91] The quake annihilated them, leaving them dead in their homes. [7:92] Those who rejected Shuaib vanished, as if they never existed. Those who rejected Shuaib were the losers. [7:93] He turned away from them, saying, "O my people, I have delivered to you the messages of my Lord, and I have advised you. How can I grieve over disbelieving people".

[7:162] But the evil ones among them substituted other commands for the commands given to them. Consequently, we sent upon them condemnation from the sky, because of their wickedness.[7:163] Remind them of the community by the sea, who desecrated the Sabbath. When they observed the Sabbath, the fish came to them abundantly. And when they violated the Sabbath, the fish did not come. We thus afflicted them, as a consequence of their transgression. [7:164] Recall that a group of them said, "Why should you preach to people whom GOD will surely annihilate or punish severely"? They answered, "Apologize to your Lord", that they might be saved. [7:165] When they disregarded what they were reminded of, we saved those who prohibited evil, and afflicted the wrongdoers with a terrible retribution for their wickedness. [7:166] When they continued to defy the commandments, we said to them, "Be you despicable apes". [7:167] Additionally, your Lord has decreed that He will raise up against them people who will inflict severe persecution upon them, until the Day of Resurrection. Your Lord is most efficient in enforcing retribution, and He is certainly the Forgiver, Most Merciful. [7:168] We scattered them among many communities throughout the land. Some of them were righteous, and some were less than righteous. We tested them with prosperity and hardship, that they may return. [7:169] Subsequent to them, He substituted new generations who inherited the scripture. But they opted for the worldly life instead, saying, "We will be forgiven". But then they continued to opt for the materials of this world. Did they not make a covenant to uphold the scripture, and not to say about GOD except the truth? Did they not study the scripture? Certainly, the abode of the Hereafter is far better for those who maintain righteousness. Do you not understand? [7:170] Those who uphold the scripture, and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), we never fail to recompense the pious. [7:171] We raised the mountain above them like an umbrella, and they thought it was going to fall on them: "You shall uphold what we have given you, strongly, and remember the contents thereof, that you may be saved". [7:172] Recall that your Lord summoned all the descendants of Adam, and had them bear witness for themselves: "Am I not your Lord"? They all said, "Yes. We bear witness". Thus, you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection, "We were not aware of this". [7:173] Nor can you say, "It was our parents who practiced idolatry, and we simply followed in their footsteps. Will You punish us because of what others have innovated"? [7:174] We thus explain the revelations, to enable the people to redeem themselves. [7:175] Recite for them the news of one who was given our proofs, but chose to disregard them. Consequently, the devil pursued him, until he became a strayer. [7:176] Had we willed, we could have elevated him therewith, but he insisted on sticking to the ground, and pursued his own opinions. Thus, he is like the dog; whether you pet him or scold him, he pants. Such is the example of people who reject our proofs. Narrate these narrations, that they may reflect. [7:177] Bad indeed is the example of people who reject our proofs; it is only their own souls that they wrong. [7:178] Whomever GOD guides is the truly guided one, and whomever He commits to straying, these are the losers.

[9:31] They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords, instead of GOD. Others deified the Messiah, son of Mary. They were all commanded to worship only one god. There is no god except He. Be He glorified, high above having any partners. [9:32] They want to put out GOD's light with their mouths, but GOD insists upon perfecting His light, in spite of the disbelievers. [9:33] He is the One who sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, and will make it dominate all religions, in spite of the idol worshipers. [9:34] O you who believe, many religious leaders and preachers take the people's money illicitly, and repel from the path of GOD. Those who hoard the gold and silver, and do not spend them in the cause of GOD, promise them a painful retribution. [9:35] The day will come when their gold and silver will be heated in the fire of Hell, then used to burn their foreheads, their sides, and their backs: "This is what you hoarded for yourselves, so taste what you have hoarded".

[37:27] They will come to each other, questioning and blaming one another. [37:28] They will say (to their leaders), "You used to come to us from the right side". [37:29] They will respond, "It is you who were not believers. [37:30] We never had any power over you; it is you who were wicked. [37:31] We justly incurred our Lord's judgment; now we have to suffer. [37:32] We misled you, only because we were astray". [37:33] Thus, together they will all partake of the retribution on that day.

Believe only in GOD, call upon only to GOD, thank only to GOD, ask only from GOD, repent only to GOD, pray only to GOD, supplicate only to GOD, take GOD's name when you wake up, take GOD's name when you sleep, take GOD's name when you eat and drink, take GOD's name in just about everything you do, for you and everyone else including your maulas, leaders, kothars, messengers, prophets, dias, syedenas, friends, relatives, etc., etc., etc. will return back to HIM ALONE. Each and everyone is responsible for his own soul. You are not answerable to your leaders and nor they are answerable to you. You are only answerable to GOD.

Praise be to GOD, Lord of the universe.
Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Master of the Day of Judgement.
YOU ALONE WE WORSHIP, YOU ALONE WE ASK FOR HELP.
Guide us in the right path.
The path of those whom YOU blessed;
not of those who have deserved wrath,
nor of the strayers.

This is the first surah of the Quran (the opening, the KEY) and this the first surah you recite in every rakah of every prayers.
UNDERSTAND IT AND STICK TO IT.

ALLAHU AKBAR.

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 4:35 pm
by qiyam
Dear Danish,
referring to Surah Al'Fatihah you wrote:

This is the first surah of the Quran (the opening, the KEY) and this the first surah you recite in every rakah of every prayers.
UNDERSTAND IT AND STICK TO IT.


How do you know it is the first surah you recite in every rakat of prayer? Please quote the reference IN THE QURAN.

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 7:17 pm
by Danish
Dear Qiyam:

Quran doesn't tell you to wash your face with water, Quran doesn't tell you to brush your teeth with toothpaste, Quran doesn't tell you to clean your arse with water or toilet paper or stones or wood, etc., Quran doesn't tell you this and Quran doesn't tell you that, but Quran does tell you one thing:

[18:109] Say, "If the ocean were ink for the words of my Lord, the ocean would run out, before the words of my Lord run out, even if we double the ink supply." [18:110] Say, "I am no more than a human like you, being inspired that your god is one god. Those who hope to meet their Lord shall work righteousness, and never worship any other god beside his Lord."

[31:27] If all the trees on earth were made into pens, and the ocean supplied the ink, augmented by seven more oceans, the words of GOD would not run out. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.

The Quran can be detailed with explanation in just about everything the way you want it to be, INCLUDING THE SALAAT PART (without the various traditional practices). I already gave you the answer to your question, ponder upon it.

Need another one, here we go: ponder on all the other surahs that you recite when you pray to GOD with that of the first, paying special attention to the word "kul" which means "say".

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 7:30 am
by asif
"Birds of a feather flock together" . or in hindi "Chor Chor Mausere bhai"

Who says Jain communities saints are clean?Don't have we heard the various sexual exploits of these saints in Gujarat ,Rajasthan etc. The organisations under these saints also make immense money collected from their disciples.

In any case when the "God" itself is non existent ,then the preachers ,be it of any damned religion , are spreading lies & fooling public. So How are Jain saints different from our Dharamgurus?

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:57 pm
by qiyam
Danish,
You didn't answer the question...WHERE IN THE QURAN DOES IT SAY TO RECITE SURAH AL'FATIHAH IN EVERY RAKAT OF SALAT??

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 8:15 pm
by Danish
Qiyam,

You did get my answer. I've said enough and as I mentioned few times earlier, some of you need 'BRAINS' not 'BRAWNS' & 'BABY SITTERS'.

Once again: READ, READ, READ...STUDY, UNDERSTAND and PERCEIVE, not once but again and again and again until you GET IT. This is GOD's BOOK, not some cheap exploitive hadith.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, ASK HELP FROM GOD ALMIGHTY ALL THE TIME EVERY TIME AND BE PATIENT. I'm not your guardian nor your teacher, nor do I ask for any wage or war.

GOD, there is no other god but GOD. Be HE Glorified.

PEACE.

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 8:27 pm
by qiyam
Danish,
What answer did I get...that not everything specific to Allah religion and its practices are NOT in the Quran....as already stated by everyone else.

Remember it was you stating everything relating to Islamic principles and practice are in the Quran...not us.

So what answer did you give me????

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 8:29 pm
by qiyam
And Danish,
This is GOD's BOOK, not some cheap exploitive hadith.

Beautiful words...maybe you should practice them the next time you misquote and misrepresent verse from God's Book!!!

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 9:11 pm
by Danish
Qiyam,
Remember it was you stating everything relating to Islamic principles and practice are in the Quran...not us.
I never said what you are claiming above, it is GOD Almighty saying in the Quran. You are truely a LIAR as you have proven to be in the past as well by bringing lies from the hadiths. You cannot challenge GOD for an "incomplete" Quran and its not possible for me to open your eyes, ears and mind. You seem to be deaf, dumb and blind.

[2:17] Their example is like those who start a fire, then, as it begins to shed light around them, GOD takes away their light, leaving them in darkness, unable to see. [2:18] Deaf, dumb, and blind; they fail to return.

[2:171] The example of such disbelievers is that of parrots who repeat what they hear of sounds and calls, without understanding. Deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand.

[6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?* Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.
[6:115] The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 9:28 pm
by Danish
Qiyam:
This is GOD's BOOK, not some cheap exploitive hadith.

Beautiful words...maybe you should practice them the next time you misquote and misrepresent verse from God's Book!!!
Who said that the above is a verse from GOD's book. Besides, every verse that I have quoted so far on this entire forum has a surah number/verse number. Another BIG LIE.

Free yourself from the grip of Satan and repent to GOD, ask for HIS forgiveness.

I seek refuge in GOD from Satan the cursed. In the name of GOD, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

[7:191] Is it not a fact that they are idolizing idols who create nothing, and are themselves created?
[7:192] Idols that can neither help them, nor even help themselves?
[7:193] When you invite them to the guidance, they do not follow you. Thus, it is the same for them whether you invite them, or remain silent.
[7:194] The idols you invoke besides GOD are creatures like you. Go ahead and call upon them; let them respond to you, if you are right.
[7:195] Do they have legs on which they walk? Do they have hands with which they defend themselves? Do they have eyes with which they see? Do they have ears with which they hear? Say, "Call upon your idols, and ask them to smite me without delay.
[7:196] "GOD is my only Lord and Master; the One who revealed this scripture. He protects the righteous.
[7:197] "As for the idols you set up beside Him, they cannot help you, nor can they help themselves."
[7:198] When you invite them to the guidance, they do not hear. And you see them looking at you, but they do not see.
[7:199] You shall resort to pardon, advocate tolerance, and disregard the ignorant.
[7:200] When the devil whispers to you any whisper, seek refuge in GOD; He is Hearer, Omniscient.
[7:201] Those who are righteous, whenever the devil approaches them with an idea, they remember, whereupon they become seers.
[7:202] Their brethren ceaselessly entice them to go astray.
[7:203] If you do not produce a miracle that they demand, they say, "Why not ask for it?" Say, "I simply follow what is revealed to me from my Lord." These are enlightenments from your Lord, and guidance, and mercy for people who believe.
[7:204] When the Quran is recited, you shall listen to it and take heed, that you may attain mercy.
[7:205] You shall remember your Lord within yourself, publicly, privately, and quietly, day and night; do not be unaware.
[7:206] Those at your Lord are never too proud to worship Him; they glorify Him and fall prostrate before Him.

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 9:38 pm
by qiyam
Danish,
You are indeed a devil. Yes every verse you quoted is from the Quran...however every verse you quoted wasn't about the topic you were refering it for. You cannot just take verses that have the words you NEED out of the context there used JUST to fit your AGENDA.

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 11:10 pm
by Danish
Qiyam,
You are indeed a devil.
It’s actually the other way around, read below.

[6:21] Who is more evil than one who lies about GOD, or rejects His revelations? The transgressors never succeed.

[6:93] Who is more evil than one who fabricates lies and attributes them to GOD, or says, "I have received divine inspiration," when no such inspiration was given to him, or says, "I can write the same as GOD's revelations?" If only you could see the transgressors at the time of death! The angels extend their hands to them, saying, "Let go of your souls. Today, you have incurred a shameful retribution for saying about GOD other than the truth, and for being too arrogant to accept His revelations.
[6:94] "You have come back to us as individuals, just as we created you the first time, and you have left behind what we provided for you. We do not see with you the intercessors that you idolized and claimed that they will help you. All ties among you have been severed; the idols you set up have abandoned you."

[6:144] …Who is more evil than those who invent such lies and attribute them to GOD? They thus mislead the people without knowledge. GOD does not guide such evil people."

[7:37] Who is more evil than those who invent lies about GOD, or reject His revelations? These will get their share, in accordance with the scripture, then, when our messengers come to terminate their lives, they will say, "Where are the idols you used to implore beside GOD?" They will say, "They have abandoned us." They will bear witness against themselves that they were disbelievers.

[10:17] Who is more evil than one who fabricates lies about GOD, or rejects His revelations. Certainly, the transgressors never succeed.
[10:18] They worship beside GOD idols that possess no power to harm them or benefit them, and they say, "These are our intercessors at GOD!" Say, "Are you informing GOD of something He does not know in the heavens or the earth?" Be He glorified. He is the Most High; far above needing partners.
[10:19] The people used to be one congregation, then they disputed. If it were not for a predetermined word from your Lord, they would have been judged immediately regarding their disputes.

[11:18] Who are more evil than those who fabricate lies about GOD? They will be presented before their Lord, and the witnesses will say, "These are the ones who lied about their Lord. GOD's condemnation has befallen the transgressors."
[11:19] They repel from the way of GOD and seek to make it crooked, and they are disbelievers in the Hereafter.
[11:20] These will never escape, nor will they find any lords or masters to help them against GOD. Retribution will be doubled for them. They have failed to hear, and they have failed to see.
[11:21] These are the ones who lose their souls, and the idols they had fabricated will disown them.
[11:22] There is no doubt that, in the Hereafter, they will be the worst losers.
Yes every verse you quoted is from the Quran...however every verse you quoted wasn't about the topic you were refering it for.
Evil minds like yours can never understand, by GOD’s Will.
[2:171] The example of such disbelievers is that of parrots who repeat what they hear of sounds and calls, without understanding. Deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand.
You cannot just take verses that have the words you NEED out of the context there used JUST to fit your AGENDA.
WHY NOT, they are GOD’s Words that came out of Muhammad’s mouth into this Quran. Are you defying GOD, Muhammad and the Quran because you cannot challenge THEM and that your evilness has been EXPOSED.
[6:28] As a matter of fact, (they only say this because) their secrets have been exposed. If they go back, they will commit exactly the same crimes. They are liars.

[6:157] Nor can you say, "If only a scripture could come down to us, we would be better guided than they." A proven scripture has now come to you from your Lord, and a beacon, and a mercy. Now, who is more evil than one who rejects these proofs from GOD, and disregards them? We will commit those who disregard our proofs to the worst retribution for their heedlessness.

[47:20] Those who believed said: "When will a new sura be revealed?" But when a straightforward sura was revealed, wherein fighting was mentioned, you would see those who harbored doubts in their hearts looking at you, as if death had already come to them. They were thus exposed.

[47:38] You are invited to spend in the cause of GOD, but some of you turn stingy. The stingy are stingy towards their own souls. GOD is Rich, while you are poor.

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 1:45 am
by anajmi
Danish,

Actually you are the devil, read below:

[6:21] Who is more evil than one who lies about GOD, or rejects His revelations? The transgressors never succeed.

[6:93] Who is more evil than one who fabricates lies and attributes them to GOD, or says, "I have received divine inspiration," when no such inspiration was given to him, or says, "I can write the same as GOD's revelations?" If only you could see the transgressors at the time of death! The angels extend their hands to them, saying, "Let go of your souls. Today, you have incurred a shameful retribution for saying about GOD other than the truth, and for being too arrogant to accept His revelations.
[6:94] "You have come back to us as individuals, just as we created you the first time, and you have left behind what we provided for you. We do not see with you the intercessors that you idolized and claimed that they will help you. All ties among you have been severed; the idols you set up have abandoned you."

[6:144] …Who is more evil than those who invent such lies and attribute them to GOD? They thus mislead the people without knowledge. GOD does not guide such evil people."

[7:37] Who is more evil than those who invent lies about GOD, or reject His revelations? These will get their share, in accordance with the scripture, then, when our messengers come to terminate their lives, they will say, "Where are the idols you used to implore beside GOD?" They will say, "They have abandoned us." They will bear witness against themselves that they were disbelievers.

[10:17] Who is more evil than one who fabricates lies about GOD, or rejects His revelations. Certainly, the transgressors never succeed.
[10:18] They worship beside GOD idols that possess no power to harm them or benefit them, and they say, "These are our intercessors at GOD!" Say, "Are you informing GOD of something He does not know in the heavens or the earth?" Be He glorified. He is the Most High; far above needing partners.
[10:19] The people used to be one congregation, then they disputed. If it were not for a predetermined word from your Lord, they would have been judged immediately regarding their disputes.

[11:18] Who are more evil than those who fabricate lies about GOD? They will be presented before their Lord, and the witnesses will say, "These are the ones who lied about their Lord. GOD's condemnation has befallen the transgressors."
[11:19] They repel from the way of GOD and seek to make it crooked, and they are disbelievers in the Hereafter.
[11:20] These will never escape, nor will they find any lords or masters to help them against GOD. Retribution will be doubled for them. They have failed to hear, and they have failed to see.
[11:21] These are the ones who lose their souls, and the idols they had fabricated will disown them.
[11:22] There is no doubt that, in the Hereafter, they will be the worst losers.

quote:
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Yes every verse you quoted is from the Quran...however every verse you quoted wasn't about the topic you were refering it for.
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Evil minds like yours can never understand, by GOD’s Will.
[2:171] The example of such disbelievers is that of parrots who repeat what they hear of sounds and calls, without understanding. Deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You cannot just take verses that have the words you NEED out of the context there used JUST to fit your AGENDA.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHY NOT, they are GOD’s Words that came out of Muhammad’s mouth into this Quran. Are you defying GOD, Muhammad and the Quran because you cannot challenge THEM and that your evilness has been EXPOSED.
[6:28] As a matter of fact, (they only say this because) their secrets have been exposed. If they go back, they will commit exactly the same crimes. They are liars.

[6:157] Nor can you say, "If only a scripture could come down to us, we would be better guided than they." A proven scripture has now come to you from your Lord, and a beacon, and a mercy. Now, who is more evil than one who rejects these proofs from GOD, and disregards them? We will commit those who disregard our proofs to the worst retribution for their heedlessness.

[47:20] Those who believed said: "When will a new sura be revealed?" But when a straightforward sura was revealed, wherein fighting was mentioned, you would see those who harbored doubts in their hearts looking at you, as if death had already come to them. They were thus exposed.

[47:38] You are invited to spend in the cause of GOD, but some of you turn stingy. The stingy are stingy towards their own souls. GOD is Rich, while you are poor.

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 1:47 am
by anajmi
And if you are still wondering what I have done, I have just pasted your last post. Cause the same applies to you too.

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 2:59 am
by Danish
And if you are still wondering what I have done, I have just pasted your last post. Cause the same applies to you too.
Alas! And there is nothing much you can do, since you have failed all other ways. "A BLIND LEADING A BLIND" (anajmi leading qiyam). :D

[2:18] Deaf, dumb, and blind; they fail to return.

[14:15] They issued a challenge, and consequently, every stubborn tyrant ended up doomed.

[11:20] These will never escape, nor will they find any lords or masters to help them against GOD. Retribution will be doubled for them. They have failed to hear, and they have failed to see. [11:21] These are the ones who lose their souls, and the idols they had fabricated will disown them. [11:22] There is no doubt that, in the Hereafter, they will be the worst losers.

[5:31] GOD then sent a raven (Danish) to scratch the soil, to teach him (anajmi) how to bury his brother's (qiyam) corpse. He (anajmi) said, "Woe to me; I (anajmi) failed to be as intelligent as this raven (Danish), and bury my brother's (Qiyam) corpse." He (anajmi) became ridden with remorse. :eek:

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 1:03 pm
by whoami
i think this particular thread has strayed from its original point of discussion. Certain members don't do themselves any favours when they try to demonstrate their religious prowess through quotation of the Quran. Get back to the original argument.

You have all prooved yourself skillful in quotation but i grow weary of your outpourings. This was supposed to be about a completely different subject.

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 2:02 pm
by MOHD HUSSAIN
Br QIyam--Br Danish replied you this

""
quote:
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Remember it was you stating everything relating to Islamic principles and practice are in the Quran...not us.
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I never said what you are claiming above, it is GOD Almighty saying in the Quran. You are truely a LIAR as you have proven to be in the past as well by bringing lies from the hadiths. You cannot challenge GOD for an "incomplete" Quran and its not possible for me to open your eyes, ears and mind. You seem to be deaf, dumb and blind.""---------We all have been telling you this for a long time -It is about time you open your eyes,come out of the shirks &not idolise Syedna as God-

Re: Lessons To learn!!

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 2:19 pm
by MOHD HUSSAIN
Br mumin 110; I don't beleive in any Kothari propaganda news & literature published by them simply because it is all manufactued truth -they do not give you any proof or authenticity-they do not permit to be questioned by anybody-I will only believe if I saw the actual video & tap recordings & saw it in the regular non kothari news papers by a trustwothy reporter-How many times I have questioned on this board about the so called crores of rupees of Syedna's donations to various charities & not able to get any solid proof by nationally recognised news papers?