Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Want to know the TRUTH? The whole TRUH and nothing but the TRUTH?

http://www.yahweh.com.

Iyyob

Want to know the REAL and NATURAL TRUTH, the ONLY REAL and NATURAL TRUTH and nothing but the REAL and NATURAL TRUTH, without spending a single penny on the alleged House of Yahweh (IDOL similar to KAABA), then read and ponder all about it at www.aididsafar.com.

I never new that "TRUTH" has so many subtypes . Gr8 .
Subtypes of Truth = Natural, Real . What else? Aritificial , Virtual ,Relativistic ...

Now that you know, keep it real, natural and simple, and not artificial, virtual or TWISTED. Aidid Safar explains it realistically.

Why does the The whole TRUTH need yet another new and improved translation ? Either it is the truth or it isn't.

For you its a whole new and improved "TRANSLATION", but for me its more of an "EXPLANATION" of the Quranic truth.

Hey, if you cannot understand the simple truth of the Quran as basis of ones Way of Life, then by all means you can certainly continue with facing, bowing and prostrating to the stone building and then later visit the stone building to run around it and call upon GOD to come out of it, cling and kiss all you want to its walls, drink and collect some "ganga" (zamzam) water, eat and collect some "muddy sand" (khaki shifa), stroll up and down the "hill" and then in the end quickly walk towards Mina for a stone throwing contest. Remember, you must perform all the above with a two-piece Arabic garb, otherwise it won't count. And ah yes, you must kill an animal during the above process and be very careful of trampling on someone to death.

Good luck with the stone structure, errr I mean in your idolworshipping endeavours.

Danish,
if you do agree that the Quran is the truth...then why do you deny the command within it for visiting the Kaaba?

Peace to all,

Absolutely, majority of the verses of the Quran teaches and guides us as to how humans must live their lives in the most righteous ways. However, there is no compulsion, since no two human, whether male or female, ever live an exact ditto Way of Life.

Every individual has their goods and bads, rights and wrongs, ups and downs and therefore one must strive, live up to and face their own challenges in their best possible abilities that lead their very own Way of Life. NO ONE IS A MASTER OVER THE OTHER. This is a plain simple fact.

Thus the Quran says that GOD Almighty have given each one of us a brain to ponder, think and reason with; eyes with which to see and witness, and ears with which to hear. These are the three most important organs that directly effect ones speech if not properly used (words, voice, talks, etc.). One can shut-up but cannot shut-up the other three. It is up to us to appreciate these GOD given "talents" and to use them wisely. Ofcourse, ones whole life depends on them, specially the hereafter.

Then there are several verses of the Quran that has nothing to do with our own lives and cannot be proven but blindly accepted, such as Jesus speaking at birth, resurrecting the dead and healing the blind or David commanding the winds or Solomon hearing the ants or Moses turning a stick into a serpent and splitting of the ocean, etc., etc. Can anyone do those things today? Those were GOD's signs and miracles as powers bestowed upon HIS chosen ones in their times, but what effect does it have upon us today simply by reading a man-made book called Quran? What are GOD's signs and miracles that we have today for people to believe in, with certainty?

The whole Quran talks about believing in the ONE CREATOR, Allah, of the Heavens and the Earth and everything within and everything beyond and the Hereafter. The Quran warns of setting up of any Idol of whatever shape or form and condems all idolworshippers to such acts who not only rival GOD but challenge HIM with disgrace and disgust. One such "idol" is the stone house built by the disbelievers and idolworshippers. Prophet Abraham and all other prophets and messengers of GOD, could have never done such a thing. How could they!

Millions of innocent lives have simply been lured into this by the twist and turns of the Arabic words contained in the Quran by the enemies of prophet Muhammad. Aidid Safar's article is certainly a BIG ALARM CLOCK, a wake-up call for not only the idolworhsipping Muslims but surely for all humans in general. We all came from one progeny, the progeny of Adam and Eve and we must keep it that way, for all humans are nothing but GOD's creatures, an awesome creation. Learn to live with everyone and everywhere, not with "religion" in mind, but by what is given as a "way of life", naturally and realistically.

Finally, read and understand the full version in .pdf format which is found on the bottom left corner of the main page at www.aididsafar.com.

GOD, there is no other god but GOD. HE has no partners and none equals HIM. Be HE Glorified.

Just a curiosity ,
Muslims ,Jews & Christians , I guess all believe , that we are progeny of Adam & Eeve . That is what is posted above also .
Does it mean that the fist man & woman of teh world were incestuous? . So these religion permit incest ?

Adam's sons insestuous? Hardly. I have never heard of Adam and Eve having daughters!

On the other hand, Adam was definitely a hermophrodite. Eve came out of his rib. Well, God made her out of Adam's rib.

Actually, Adam's daughters-in-law also came out of his sons' ribs? At some point men complained to God about this difficult surgical operation and begged Him to transfer the responsibility of giving birth on to the women. God, ever merciful, readily agreed. Thenceforth, women are having to bear the burden of giving birth to both men and women.

Danish,
"However, there is no compulsion."
--This doesn't give license to deny the requirements of it either....it means one must, with effort, rectify this current situation to adhere to the requirements of the religion.

"Can anyone do those things today?"
--There are thousands of miracles and actions from Allah happening every day. The same signs as from before. The methods don't change...the preception of them do. You think the drought throughout much of the world is "nature". You think the floods and tornado are "by chance". You think the untold diseases which kill thousands every day are "accidents". They are reminders from God.

"One such "idol" is the stone house built by the disbelievers and idolworshippers. Prophet Abraham and all other prophets and messengers of GOD, could have never done such a thing. How could they!"

---this is where your ignorance of the Quran shines. The Quran plainly says to visit the Kaaba during Hajj as a requirement. It is a masajid...and muslims during not worship IT...but pray in its direction as a sutra (a marker of direction).

"Millions of innocent lives have simply been lured into this by the twist and turns of the Arabic words"

--and you who don't know arabic is going to show us the "correct" way...cute. Who is to say your friend Adid isn't "twisting" the words of the Quran to suit his thinking? The critiscm goes both ways.

"We all came from one progeny, the progeny of Adam and Eve.."
---why believe in this story from the Quran...how does it apply "today"...why does it rank any different than the other stories in the Quran? Don't pick and choose from the Quran.

RE: "Millions of innocent lives have simply been lured into this by the twist and turns of the Arabic words CONTAINED IN THE QURAN BY THE ENEMIES of prophet Muhammad." Could this actually be an acknowledgement by Danish that the usurper caliphs 1-3 crammed their "official version" of Quran down everyone's throats while running roughshod over Ali. No need to be surprised by this!!! The political rabbis had done the SAME THING to Torah, just as the political bishops decided what got TOSSED OUT of the Gospel...such as the Gnostic witnesses (are you listening porus?)

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Could this actually be an acknowledgement by Danish that the usurper caliphs 1-3 crammed their "official version" of Quran down everyone's throats while running roughshod over Ali. No need to be surprised by this!!! The political rabbis had done the SAME THING to Torah, just as the political bishops decided what got TOSSED OUT of the Gospel...such as the Gnostic witnesses (are you listening porus?)

This theory does not hold much water. Hz.Ali RA the #4, ruled for number of years. If there was any hanky panky with Qur'an then he had ample opportunity to correct it. Do not forget that he knew Qur'an by heart and he heard Prophet SAW recite it many times in its final version.

Wasalaam

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Originally posted by Muslim First:
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If there was any hanky panky with Qur'an then he (Ali) had ample opportunity to correct it.
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Not quite. The short time (less than 5 years) he was the putative Khalifa, he spent fighting the fractious Banu Umayya, the Khwarij and a host of other tribal elders(?) including Ayesha. He had almost no time to do anything about the Quran.

Despite Muhammad's message of brotherhood, the pre-Islamic tribal structure and loyalties prevailed. This got incorporated in both the Sunni and the Shia versions of Islam. Hence, almost suffocating nature of Muslim cultures in 21st century.

While I cannot credit the submitter Aidid Safar with historical or linguistic rigor, his suspicion that Islam has been contaminated with pre-Islamic Arab pagan culture has enormous merit.

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Br.Purus
AS

I find it hard to believe that Hz.Ali RA did not have time to read Mus-haf prepared under the direction of #3. I am sure he read it. If he found any errors or ommissions he certainlyhave pointed out.

Wasalaam
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C'mon... a little honesty here. The "lip service" accorded Ali by the tribal powers-that-be was at best VERY temporary, and grudging at that -- historians have no problem acknowledging this! The same powers that later "rubbed out" the little group around the Prophet's grandson at Kerbala and (we tend to forget) launched an EQUALLY bloody pogrom against the faithful living peacefully in Medina during Zayn al Abedin's time, certainly had NO intentions of allowing any inroads of reform to be made on their "turf" -- including, SPECIFICALLY the official propagandic purposes they had in mind for the Quran as an instrument of THEIR imperial expansion. "Hence (to paraphrase porus) the almost suffocating nature of Muslim control-dramas in the 21st century as well!"

Qiyam,

"However, there is no compulsion."
--This doesn't give license to deny the requirements of it either....it means one must, with effort, rectify this current situation to adhere to the requirements of the religion.

One doesn’t need a license to believe in GOD, such as the mandatory ritual shahada. Such licenses are possessed by Mullahs and their followers and are validated by Shaitans.

"Can anyone do those things today?"
--There are thousands of miracles and actions from Allah happening every day. The same signs as from before. The methods don't change...the preception of them do. You think the drought throughout much of the world is "nature". You think the floods and tornado are "by chance". You think the untold diseases which kill thousands every day are "accidents". They are reminders from God.

I was not talking about catastrophic elements such as droughts, floods and tornadoes but prophetic powers bestowed upon HUMANS by GOD’s Leave. Does any human possess such supernatural attributes today? Can Syedena or Aga Khan or John Pope or any other Imaam or Mullah today revive the dead and cure the blind like Jesus did? Can any new-born baby talk speak to his people right away? Can anyone today understand ants language like Solomon did? Can anyone drive the winds and command the jinns like David did? Can anyone split an ocean like Moses did? Its apparent you can’t even understand simple statements of mine but you are ever ready for baseless arguments and debates.

"One such "idol" is the stone house built by the disbelievers and idolworshippers. Prophet Abraham and all other prophets and messengers of GOD, could have never done such a thing. How could they!"
---this is where your ignorance of the Quran shines. The Quran plainly says to visit the Kaaba during Hajj as a requirement. It is a masajid...and muslims during not worship IT...but pray in its direction as a sutra (a marker of direction).

As pathetic as it sounds. People love their man-made creation made of stones and they love to worship it MORE than GOD. One of the reasons they can’t stay away from it and put all the blame on Muhammad, Quran and GOD. Besides, many have erected human gods, such as the Mullahs and Priests of today. Whatever these Shaitaans say, people blindly follow, without using their very own GOD given common sense.

"Millions of innocent lives have simply been lured into this by the twist and turns of the Arabic words"
--and you who don't know arabic is going to show us the "correct" way...cute. Who is to say your friend Adid isn't "twisting" the words of the Quran to suit his thinking? The critiscm goes both ways.

Does GOD only know Arabic and nothing else? Do all the creatures of GOD know Arabic? Does the Quran command every creature on earth that they must know Arabic in order to believe in GOD? Did Adam, Abraham, Noah, Moses and Jesus speak Arabic. I don’t even know who Aidid is and I care less. I only listen to his message and comprehend, just like I listen to the message of the Quran and care less about Muhammad.

"We all came from one progeny, the progeny of Adam and Eve.."
---why believe in this story from the Quran...how does it apply "today"...why does it rank any different than the other stories in the Quran? Don't pick and choose from the Quran.

You wouldn’t be born if it weren’t from the progeny of Adam and Eve. So ah yes, it does apply today and I am talking about GOD’s creation, not man-made dogmas, satanic rituals and wishy washy stuffs which guys like you seem to follow and love most.

Read the article at www.aididsafar.com once more with diligence, thought and reason, and then understand and perceive the overall message of the Quran.

GOD, there is no other god but GOD. HE is Alone, has no partners and none equals HIM. Be HE Glorified.

I really want to do something to stop female genitalmutilation. Its barbaric and cruel. Someone said, 'she'd never heard screaming like that before'. Will the Sayedna listen to women's appeal?

Danish,
my point was not to get into semantic arguments with you. My point was make you support your statements by more than someone else's opinion of things. Aidid argues his case by discrediting others thinking because of their understanding of the Quran by arguing ONLY with HIS understanding of the Quran. Even with that...all both of you do is generalize mass opinion as if there even was one.

For example, "People love their man-made creation made of stones" is a clear sign you know little about muslims..nor personally know even a few muslims.

"..but prophetic powers bestowed upon HUMANS by GOD’s Leave. Does any human possess such supernatural attributes today?"

--Whether bestowed upon a human or not...the power was by God always. If I ask tor God for my headache to go away...it is only through God if it miraclously goes away. This is no different than what Musa Nabi did when GOD parted the sea. No human ever posessed any super powers...it was their connection with God that was strong. When Jesus prayed for reviving the dead...IT WAS GOD THAT REVIVED THEM. I hope you understand the big difference. There was over 600 years difference between Muhammad and Jesus, and God bestow both with many miracles. God bestows miracle on humanity constantly. If you don't recognize these miracles..isn't it you who has no preception?

"Does GOD only know Arabic and nothing else?"
--We're not talking about God knowledge, but your understanding of the arabic in the Quran. You preach to me the meaning of ARABIC words in the Quran...when you don't know arabic. Your arguing with the interpretation of another...who knows less about Islam and the Quran in general than you (ie Aidid). You praise the writings of this man...yet have done little research to know if it is correct or not.

Look at the first questions that Aidid asked himself:

Is it true that Allah resides in a house on Arab soil?

Why do I bow and prostate to an empty stone building built from mountain rocks?

These simple questions alone would indicate his incorrect understanding of what he was doing in the first place.

His research and learning arabic led him to be believe masajid ul'haram means sanctions of submission. masajid mean the place of prostration (infer to mean mosque). haram means sacred. He says bayt (house) means system. He say sallat (connection) means commitment/obligation/convenant...obviously he never read the word mithaq in the Quran which God uses to describe convenant (ie the mithaqun of Bani Israel).

If he can construe and twist such simple things like this...as well as misrepresent other things about muslim...how reliable is he?

"You wouldn’t be born if it weren’t from the progeny of Adam and Eve."

---Nor would I be alive if the not for the saving of Noah in the Ark. I believe this story and every story in the Quran as examples for me to follow all my life.

seredipity, porus,

Let's say Hz Ali did not have time to correct the quran, the bohras have had a few imams, 50 odd dais and a few centuries to correct it.

They don't have any time either huh!

C'mon, correct the quran and do not show it to the sunnis. We'll just keep it amongst ourselves. How about that?

The point I was making was that Ali had little time while Khalifa to engage in amending the Quran, that is, if Quran needed amenment at all in the first place.

As far as the Bohras are concerned, it does not matter at all what Quran says. It is the interpretation of the Dai that is paramount. If Aidid Safar was the Dai, Bohras would stop praying towards Makkah and demolish all the mosques. Quran's words would miraculously change meaning.

Quran, you see is silent. The Dai is the Live, Speaking Quran. So there!

that is the problem. The dai has instructed his followers not to read the quran with understanding. That is because then he does not have to say that the quran needs to change and at the same time he can change its meaning.

And when he changes its meaning its not because it is right but its because it suits his agenda. Otherwise, if he is a true man of god he should have no problems changing the text to what it actually should be.

So we can conclude that the quran does not need changing as the dai or any other imams or dais did not change it and when the dai changes its meaning, its for himself and not for the bohras.

I think there is a little mis communication with topics addressed. There is a difference between problems with the actual text of the Quran and the promoted/efforced interpretation of the Quran. I think it would very fair to say Maulana Ali, during his time as the caliph, had little time to correct the promoted/efforced interpretations of the Quran spread throughout Arabia...though he verbally tried consistantly.

As far as the Quran's textual correctness...there are hadiths (both sunni and shiah) addressing missing surahs and ayats. We don't know if these hadiths are valid or true. We as shiah know the Imams held the same Quran we hold today as considered it correct.

"The dai has instructed his followers not to read the quran with understanding."

--this is utterly false. The Dai has said to read the Quran. If you don't understand Arabic...still read the Quran. Learn Arabic and learn from a bohra alim the correct understandings of the ayats and surahs. This would ensure a learning of the interpretation according to the teachings of the Imams and Dais. This is not equivalent by any means to just reading a translation of the Quran...for the translation is the interpretation of the translator...which may be incorrect (ie. Aidid, Rashid).

Originally posted by Iyyob:
Want to know the TRUTH? The whole TRUH and nothing but the TRUTH?
http://www.yahweh.com.
Iyyob

I would first need to know how much this truth cost.

if it is cheaper than Bohra version of truth ..sign me up now, man!

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Br. qiyam

AS

Could you please elaborate on "promoted/efforced"
concept with some examples!

Wasalaam

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Dear MF,
AS
what I mean by "promoted/efforced" is the ideas of an elected caliph/imam, Quran and sunnah (without the Imams/ahlul bayt) or ONLY the four school's interpretation of the Quran and sunnah. These premised were strongly "promoted/efforced" by both the Umayyad and Abbasid clans to support their legimaticy at power. The Umayyad were well known for forging hadiths to promote members of their clans (like Umar and Uthman).

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Br. qiyam wrote

The dai has instructed his followers not to read the quran with understanding."

--this is utterly false. The Dai has said to read the Quran. If you don't understand Arabic...still read the Quran. Learn Arabic and learn from a bohra alim the correct understandings of the ayats and surahs. This would ensure a learning of the interpretation according to the teachings of the Imams and Dais.

Br. qiyam:

Cna you please explain following Ayah as per offical Bora interpretation?

[72:18] wa- 'anna al- masaajid li- 'allaah fa- laa tadao maca 'allaah 'ah.ad(an)

Wasalaam

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