Challenge to MF - Beliefs & Opinions

[Momin]

I have posted below the questions that has yet to be answered by Forum Member "Muslim First" who claims to be knowledgeable in so-called "Islam".

Muslim First, you claim to have "belief" in the "Sunni Sunnah" brand of so-called "Islam". Your so-called "beliefs" have probably been indoctrinated into you by attending Sunni Sunnah madressas, peers/elders, and probably your parents. You have maybe learnt some sort of Islamic history that has been bent to your kinds of folks likings and perversions. With the learnings and teachings of the Holy Qu'ran supported by history, you have formed an opionion and "belief" that the brand of Islam you follow, the Sunni Sunnah, is the only one and correct way.

FYI, there are numerous schools of thought and interpretations of Islam, more than your fingers can count. Sorry to burst your bubble, however each and everyone of them are valid in their own respective ways, and they are free to worship, practice, interpret the Qu'ran in whatever respective manner.

You must be oblivious to the fact that there are numerous other Muslims and their respective communities who worship/say/perform prayers in completely different manners than your own, aside from the Nizari Ismailis.

You must live in a cave, because there are so-called Sunni Sunnahs like yourself who pray in modern purpose built masjids that don't even look like "traditional" masjids that you are use to.

Do you know that some of the most backwards people in society are Sunni Sunnahs like yourself?

You are aware that it is not part of the Sunnah to use the Internet, so everytime you use it, according to your "brand" of Islam, it is a crime and sin. Do you drive/ride a donkey/camel to school/work?

Aside from all the jokes, just as you mentioned that you have "belief" in the Sunni Sunnah, we Nizari Ismailis have the same zeal and belief in the All_h (swt), the Holy Prophets (PBUT), the Holy Qu'ran, and Imam of the time (Hazar Imam). Without getting into the exoteric and esoteric aspects of our interpretation of Islam, those are our beliefs and opnions...which has stemmed also from a historical perspective as your own creed...the creed the follow. You believe in the Holy Prophet (PBUH), and Qu'ran right? Your are basing your "belief"/opinion also from a historical perspective, right? Did you know the institution of Imamate was there prior to Islam? There were Imams in previous Abrahimic faiths.

So before poking fingers at others, and pretending to be All_h (swt) and judging others of their beliefs/opinions, be critical of your own first.

You know there are more non-Sunni Sunnahs (Christians, Buddist, Hindus, etc.) in the world today, so does it make there's right/valid?

Let me remind you since death of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (SAS), and in accordance with history, it was the belief/opinion that Hazrat Ali (AS) was appointed the secular/religious leader (Hazar Imam) of the entire Muslim Ummah. All Shias believe this proclamation was made at Gadhir-e-Khum by the Holy Prophet. However only those who were sincere and pious followed. Since then, Shias throughout history have been persecuted, not only politically, but also because of their religious beliefs (i.e.doctrine/concept of Imamate, etc.). The Nizari Ismaili Shias always had and maintainted a living Imam, and they too were persecuted even more serverely. Our Kerbala did not end with Hazrat Hasan and Imam Husayn...blood was shed from subsequent Imams. Never once did the Nizari Ismailis go on the offensive, until the Alamut period when the lives of the Imams were in great danger. The Fatimid Ismailis were very powerful, yet they did not go on a barbaric rampage of persecuting others of different persuasions/faiths/beliefs (i.e. Sunnis) and opinion. They actually respected people from different backgrounds and faiths, and welcomed them in their empire. They didn't even attempt to convert any of their subjects. Whoever was attracted to the intellectual philosophical doctrine and teachings of Ismailism/Islam joined.

The butchery from the Sunnis did not stop against the Shias/Ismailis, this happened again after the Fatimids, and Nizari Alamut periods...Moguls in South Asia and Asia minor, the Talibanis in recent times butchered and persecuted Shias/Ismailis to give a few examples. If you tell me that not all of the Sunnis are like that...then what is this silent majority doing to protect minorities? Sitting on the sidelines, staying quite doesn't help...what are you doing Muslim First to make this world a better place?

All_h (swt) in the final judge of all. Ameen!

Wish you luck!


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Momin
New
Member # 604

posted August 27, 2008 12:19 AM
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MF,

I am not questioning the integrity of the Holy Qu'ran, but on what basis do you believe it is true? Can you give us an explanation on this, and an explanation on why you think the Qu'ran and Sunnah are correct, without quoting the Qu'ran. What has convinced you??? I wish you luck in your answer(s).
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Posts: 20 |

Muslim First
Prolific
Member # 127

posted August 27, 2008 08:39 AM
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Momin bhai

Have you heard word called ‘Belief’?

There are 1.3 B (+/-) Muslims in universe.
Deviant Ismailis are about 15 m

That leaves 1.285 B and they all believe in Qur'an and Sunnah of Prophet.

I do not have to give explanation of integrity of Qur'an.

End of this line of questioning.
<<<<

[anajmi]

You are aware that it is not part of the Sunnah to use the Internet, so everytime you use it, according to your "brand" of Islam, it is a crime and sin. Do you drive/ride a donkey/camel to school/work?

If that is how you've understood the Sunnah, then no wonder Ismailis abuse the sunnah of the prophet!!

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by anajmi:
Ismailis abuse the sunnah of the prophet!![/QB]

Ha H aHa Ha H aha...........you're funny Anajmi, check out your filthy Hadith....Ha Ha Ha ha!!

[Muslim First]

check out your filthy Hadith....Ha Ha Ha ha!!

Does Bevqoof have any clean Ahadit?

Please post.

BTW Beveqoof

Ahadith is plural of Hadith.

[Muslim First]

Momin Bhai

What is this All_h (swt)?

Any differnce between Allah (swt) and All_h (swt)?

Is All_h (swt) Nizari Ismaili God?

[IMMUSLIM]

Brother Momin

Very interesting challenge, I think we will all be able to learn from each other. I am neither Shia and nor Sunni but I am a Muslim. You are Ismaili because most likely you were born in an Ismaili family and I guess same is the case with MF or Ajami. Our beliefs are different too but we all agree on Quran. Lets make a rule here no Ismaili or Sunni bashing, no kind of abuse, we will talk with reference to Quran. If anybody has any questions they can ask. The answer will be with reference to Quran. Quran says
003.007 He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except God. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

Yousuf Ali’s Translation

003.007 He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.

Pickthall’s Translation

Regards

[Aarif]

Our beliefs are different too but we all agree on Quran. Lets make a rule here no Ismaili or Sunni bashing, no kind of abuse, we will talk with reference to Quran. If anybody has any questions they can ask. The answer will be with reference to Quran.

Dear IMM,

Now that is not possible on this forum and please don't ask me why. Because if you do that than you will be referred to as stupid...

BTW: The day we start calling ourselves muslims and not anything else we will all become deviants

[Muslim First]

Br. IMMUSLIM

AS

Can you describe what plain MUSLIM beliefs are as a starting point?

Wasalaam

[Danish]

Originally posted by IMMUSLIM:
Our beliefs are different too but we all agree on Quran.

That's a contradictory and superficial statement to make.

None of the pitiful unscrupulous scholarly mullahs of Islam agree with each other. As a matter of fact, every verse in the entire Quran is either, misunderstood, mistranslated and/or out-of-context to fit their own preconceived notions and mindsets (one of the reasons the Arabized Islamic world has hundreds of differing scholarly translations and interpretations); and all seem to be disguisedly and disgracefully correct in their own ways. Their Arabized male supernatural fathomable yet fathomless deity has certainly confused and intimidated the entire lot into chaos till the end of time.

7:17 ~ "I will come to them from before them, and from behind them, and from their right, and from their left, and You will find that most of them are unappreciative."

[Muslim First]

Br. IMM

You can debate with Danish the Menses.

[IMMUSLIM]

Br MF

Do you agree we will refer to Quran for references?

[Muslim First]

Br. IMMUSLIM

You do whatever you want to do

I want to know what is these brand of MUSLIM is?

Wasalaam

IAMMUSLIMTOO

[IMMUSLIM]

I try to refer to Quran and I belive in

1. Shahda
2. Prayers
3. Fasting
4. Zakat
5. Haj

This is my brand of Islam

[porus]

Originally posted by IMMUSLIM:
I try to refer to Quran and I belive in

1. Shahda
2. Prayers
3. Fasting
4. Zakat
5. Haj

This is my brand of Islam

You are a Sunni.

How about being compassionate, merciful, just, kindliness, tahseen, jihad (as in continual effort at improvement), looking after family, elderly parents, orphans etc.

Quoting 'pillars' like bigots, you reduce Islam to mere ritual.

A Muslim is one who submits to God and serves him.

[Africawala0000]

Momin bhai

Have you heard word called ‘Belief’?

There are 1.3 B (+/-) Muslims in universe.
Deviant Ismailis are about 15 m

That leaves 1.285 B and they all believe in Qur'an and Sunnah of Prophet.

I do not have to give explanation of integrity of Qur'an.

End of this line of questioning.
<<<<

This is just the beginning.

The line of questioning has just begun. Those who believe in Sunnah of Prophet aren't the ones killing Shias and Sunnis in Iraq? Then who are they? Aren't they part of your billions who are killing people around the world in the name of religion? Was that part of the Sunnah that the Prophet left behind?

He even pardoned his enemies, and so did Aly, Hussein and all the successive Imams. However, Umar cursed his enemies. Want to see ahadith?

Turbonauck, your turbos are great keep sending them to this forum, may be some day 1.258B will learn Islam, i.e. Peace.

The only deviants in this forum are you, MFr and potty mouth. You have put the Sunnah and Qur'an to shame by your dirty mouth. Did the Prophet utter the disgusting words you are uttering? Did the Prophet pass judgement on anybody?

You guys are all over the internet and people are making fun of you and your Asgharali Engineer.

I have heard the word belief, have you? If you have then why are you acting like a jahaliya. For a Muslim belief is not only in Allah S.W.T. and the prophet but also in the ethics and principals of Islam as taught by the Prophet. Where are your ethics?

Those who call themselves Muslims, i.e. 1.258B, and sitting on black gold, why are they busy not doing anything to help the Ummah? Why are they spending millions of dollars on diamond studded cars for their children? Why are they exporting their billions to young suicide bombers? Why aren't they helping widows of the terrible war in Iraq who have fled to Syria? These women are now practicing prostitution, and you want to know who their best customers are? Saudis, and fellow Muslims! These are part of the 1.258B of you. These are the deviants!

Islam teaches generosity and sharing your good fortune. So where is the generosity of 1.258B and why is that 15m are busy building schools, hospitals, houses, parks, sports facilities, restoring what the 1.258B destroyed in Afghanistan, educating women and children while the 1.258B are marrying 3 year olds, subjugating women and rendering them to beg on the streets. List goes on and on.

If each one of you give one dollar a year, that will be 1.258B a year, imagine how much good you can do for the Ummah. the Ummah will not be dependent on the West. Why don't you start this in Ramadhan? Do good for a change!

Now, if you have a brain think, I don't think you have one. You have been talking nonsense all along, that is not the Sunnah of Prophet, you idiot.

God gave us intellect to be used not to be abused! Sooner you get this straight, sooner you will be a productive Muslim until then you are just a Waste Product and so stop telling us you are following the Qur'an and the Sunnah of Prophet, because your actions have proven that you are not.

Pround African

[IMMUSLIM]

Br Porus

I agree with you. I prefer to call myself Muslim because whatever happened 15 centuries ago is not in my control But if we start calling ourselves Muslims and leave minute differences aside, it will bring everybody on one platform I think it will be our jihad (as in continual effort at improvement). We might not witness whatever we are witnessing around the world in the name of Shiaism and Sunnism.

[Danish]

Originally posted by IMMUSLIM:
I try to refer to Quran and I belive in

1. Shahda
2. Prayers
3. Fasting
4. Zakat
5. Haj

This is my brand of Islam

That is NOT the brand for mankind but ONLY for idolworshipping bigoted Arabized religionists.

Originally posted by porus:
How about being compassionate, merciful, just, kindliness, tahseen, jihad (as in continual effort at improvement), looking after family, elderly parents, orphans etc.

Absolutely. And one does not need holy books or a fathomable yet fathomless male supernatural humanistic deity to dictate all the above.

[Muslim First]

Ustad-ud-Tawil Janab Porus said:

Originally posted by IMMUSLIM:
I try to refer to Quran and I belive in

1. Shahda
2. Prayers
3. Fasting
4. Zakat
5. Haj

This is my brand of Islam

You are a Sunni.

Shia also believe in above 5. Don't they?

Wasalaam

[Danish]

Ahadith are the biggest fraud that brought about the religion called Islam and along came the Sira/Sunnah (life and actions of Muhammad), the Fiqh (jurisprudence) and the Pillars of Islam by the staunchest disbelievers, hypocrites and bigots. Arabized Islamists fervently yet blindfoldedly claim that without Bukhari & Co., Allah's words are insufficient, incomplete and unsupportable. LOL! ROFL! These co-called Arabized Muslims are the real enemies of Abu al Qasim (muhammad ~ the praised one).

[pardesi]

Hey Africawala!

Welcome back. About darn time!

[Africawala0000]

Thanks Pardesi. Where is turbo, I'm looking forward to his turbo.

To IMMUSLIM:

agree with you. I prefer to call myself Muslim because whatever happened 15 centuries ago is not in my control But if we start calling ourselves Muslims and leave minute differences aside, it will bring everybody on one platform I think it will be our jihad (as in continual effort at improvement). We might not witness whatever we are witnessing around the world in the name of Shiaism and Sunnism.
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Brother, Terrorists call themselves Muslims too. Think about saying you are a Muslim next time you talk to anybody, i.e. fellow Muslim or people of other denominations.

All Muslims come with a Pre-fix, whether one admits it or not. If you say to a Christian who is ignorant like MF, that you are a Muslim, at once a red flag would go up. But if you talk to an educated Christian like Karen Armstrong, she will ask you what branch of Islam do you belong to as there 73 sects in Islam.

Whether you call yourself a Muslim or MFr makes no difference. In the end the Mosque you attend determines "who you are". So saying I am a Muslim does not suffice.

There are not minute differences and these differences will never reconcile. These differences are doctrinal differences (I am sure somebody is going to run to Maherally now to get the differences), theological, philosophical and interpretation differences. Then we have ignorant Mullahs who site Aisha's marriage to the Prophet in her baby years to condone baby marriages to 50 year olds, i.e. just one example.

Did you know that Sayeda Nafisa was a guru of Hazarat Hanifa? She led his janaza prayers at his funeral. Did you know that during the Prophet's time there were women Muezzins and the Prophet had taught them the Adhan.

You will not hear from the farting Mullahs these details. You have to read every book you can get your hand on to know how diversified Islam is. There is no one version and no one interpretation. There is no harm in reading other people's interpretations, so long as it is done with an open mind and not with malice. You learn the good and discard what is not digestible.

Unless the Ummah gets educated and keeps an open mind, there will be no unity. So forget about the "minute differences". The differences are as wide as the world itself, but we need to get rid of Mullahs and use our intellect. As long as Muslims rely on these ignorant madressa churned fat bellies, they will never see Islam as taught by the Prophet. They will continue till end of times like abu jahal, and remain jahaliya.

Now wait for the cursing MFr and Potty Mouth to come out. They call themselves Muslims too! You see what I mean. You want to be identified with them?
African

[Africawala0000]

Hello MFr,

Surprise! Surprise! Now run to Maherally to find ammunition to attack Ismailis, because you have no brain to use. I am familiar with all his trash as I read all that trash before I converted. Come on brother! Remember those Ginans you quoted? And you wanted us to believe you know our religion so well!

Use your own intellect. maherally, is pissing now and so will you, if you are not already pissing. Afterall, you are a regular on Ismaili.net I am sure you are seeing and reading everything that is going on in the Ismaili World. Wait until October when whole of Canada will be singing Golden Jubilee! We already heard the Ismaili Anthem in Africa, Asia, Europe, Sub-Continent, U.S. an now Canada is next. I hope Maherally survives the trauma.

African

[Muslim First]

Now wait for the cursing MFr and Potty Mouth to come out.

Pot calling kettle black

[Muslim First]

Jungle Man
1.285 B includes .245 B who use prefix Shia.

[Africawala0000]

Jungle Man
1.285 B includes .245 B who use prefix Shia.

Maherally aka MFr, You have always hated the Shias. You were paid by the Wahabis and UAEs to write a book against Ismailis and Shias, and which you had to withdraw from the shelves. You then sold them underground to meet your legal fees. Your distributors were Ithnas, I know, because one is married to my cousin. If you were correct why did you withdraw. The material therein was not even your own for you have no brains, you used Mir Bose, who too had to withdraw his book and confess he was lying. This is how stupid you are. Aga Khan dropped the case when Bose confessed he was lying.

Instead of using your money from the revenue of your underground sale to help the poor, you invested it in brainless tramps in Vancouver. Want me to tell you more? These tramps are hiding behind burkas, n'est ce pas? And they are doing your bidding. Their English is worst than bushmen in Africa! What can I say of your followers?

African

[Africawala0000]

Jungle Man
1.285 B includes .245 B who use prefix Shia.

Maherally aka MFr, You have always hated the Shias. You were paid by the Wahabis and UAEs to write a book against Ismailis and Shias, and which you had to withdraw from the shelves. You then sold them underground to meet your legal fees. Your distributors were Ithnas, I know, because one is married to my cousin. If you were correct why did you withdraw. The material therein was not even your own for you have no brains, you used Mir Bose, who too had to withdraw his book and confess he was lying. This is how stupid you are. Aga Khan dropped the case when Bose confessed he was lying.

Instead of using your money from the revenue of your underground sale to help the poor, you invested it in brainless tramps in Vancouver. Want me to tell you more? These tramps are hiding behind burkas, n'est ce pas? And they are doing your bidding. Their English is worst than bushmen in Africa! What can I say of your followers?

African

[salim]

Bro Africawalla

I think we muslims should not fight among ourselves. I think both Shia and Sunni can come to an agreement to follow the five fundamental of Islam

100% of Shia follow this 5 fundamentals of Islam

1) Tahweed (oneness of Allah)
2) Adl (Justice)
3) Nabuwwat (Prophethood)
4) Imamate (Doctrine of Imamate)
5) Qiyamat

As a sunni they can be neutral towards Imamate because as MF said, for them it is tough to say against or in favor of Imam, because of their issue with history.

[salim]

That leaves 1.285 B and they all believe in Qur'an and Sunnah of Prophet.

I don't know about 1.285 muslims, but I am 100% sure you are no where close to believing Quran. If with Sunnah you mean following 5 founding father of your interpretation

Sahaba Abu bakar RA
Sahaba Umar RA
Sahaba Osman RA
Sahaba Yazid RA
Sahaba Muaviya RA

Then you might be right.

[salim]

Islam is way more than those 5 pillars. Islam is way of life. I believe in all those 5 pillars and I believe way more. I don't want to confine and limit Islam to just 5 pillars.

[salim]

One way to unite all Muslim Umma is to ask them follow the 5 fundamental is Islam

1) Tahweed (oneness of Allah)
2) Adl (Justice)
3) Nabuwwat (Prophethood)
4) Imamate (Doctrine of Imamate)
5) Qiyamat

Sunni's can be neutral on 4th step. MF are ready to get united?