Mola Ali (a.s.)

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#121

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:21 pm

Mubarak wrote: Engineer Asgher Ali is a Daroo (alcohol) Drinker (proof in book ‘Nikab Kushai’ and 'Daroo' is the mother of all evils).
So you agree that Daroo is haraam, Good. If so then why does burhanudin saab have 'Daroo ni dukaan' as his tenants and why does he enjoy its rent ? (Glamour bldg, Arthur bunder road, Colaba,Mumbai). That too not only one but I believe there are almost 4 'daroo ni dukaan' in his building. Now you will argue that he cannot remove them due to the Rent Act. Definately he would find it difficult to remove them legally but then there are scores of other things which he does illegally against the spirit of Islam so if he adds one more case and that too for keeping the spirit of Islam alive then wouldnt it be a noble thing ? He can offer them an amount which could be more then the market value which anyone would gladly accept and that would not make even a pinhole in his pocket. And if he has business acumen which everyone knows he has more then even the Ambanis then he can start a collection/extortion drive which is kothar's normal practice.

Also, before pointing fingers at Mr.Engineer who is not an amil or even a religous leader look at your religous leader's own family. Randomly go to Radio Club at Colaba and you will find the son of late mukasir Salehbhai saab enjoying a couple of pegs. The person in reference is also the dai's son-in-law and inspite of that he is a good human being. This is only one example which is visible and for people to see as no one has yet seen what the other shehzadas/bhaisaabs do during their never ending rendezvous in foreign countries and that too at the expense of the community. So "Jiske apne ghar sheeshe ke ho, woh doosro par patthar nahi pheka karte".

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#122

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:17 am

Mubarak Bhai,

I think you got confused. I did never mentioned that Harzrat Ali married his daughters to Hazrat Usman Bin Affan. In fact, Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) married his two daughters( one after another) to Hazrat Uman and that why he is called (Dul Noorain). There are number of books available in all major languages. However for your reference some of them are :Ar-Raheeq Al-Makhtum (The Sealed Nectar)published by Dar-us-Salam Publications, 1996 I have a PDF copy of that book, but I think you will not like to read that.Sirat-i-Hazrat Usman-i-Ghani, by Mohammad Alias Aadil. Publishers: Mushtaq Ahmed Lahore.Mukkammal Tarikhe Islam By Mufti Shaukat Ali Fahmi

Secondly you have mentioned in one of your post that" Why unknown & unheard person reference like: Bhai Sajjad Hussain K.G., Udaipur or later will be bhai Mohammad (full name cannot be disclosed due to fear of Kothar action against him), Indore or any other common Mumeen?", and other quote " Kalam presented by Janab, Bhai Asghar Ali Jawriya Wala, in Vazihpura mosque, Udaipur on 13th Rajab viladat/birthday of Mola Ali (Year 1999 AD +/- 1yr.)" both the quotes were from mosques. However it does not support my claim.

You wrote that you have quoted Sajjad Hussain for three times. If once it is single, if twice it is couple of time and when it is third time you may term it as "often".

I don't know what my Umras and Hajj has to do with your argument. This is personal deed. You called me liar, Thank you for that as it is expected from those who tought or studied in surat Jamia and their like wise. Umra and Hajj are related to rights of God (Huquqallah) while hurting the religious sentiments of other are falls in category of right of people (Huquqal Ibaad). Now you decide what you are doing?

It's right time to close the discussion with you as you are person with lack of tolerance.

Allah hafiz

Humsafar
Posts: 2612
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#123

Unread post by Humsafar » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:48 am

Hussain bhai,
What else can you expect from a person who considers Abbas Alvi as a scholar and is happy to quote jawariawalla (whoever he may be) and other such freelance mullas with such authority? It is wise to leave him alone with his own sectarian, narrow-minded and self-serving rantings.

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#124

Unread post by Aarif » Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:07 pm

Dear Very Highly Respected Sincere Brother Mr. Muslim First sahib ji
Br. MF,

Looks like someone is a super big fan of your's :D

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#125

Unread post by Muslim First » Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:33 pm

Br. Aarif

AS

His Majesty Awwal Aalim Mubarak Bhai Saheb is very polite brother.

Even though we disagree and he says that I am Kafir bacause I do not direct my prayers through Maula Ali's son Hussain, I still enjoy reading his posts. Him and 4 stooges make my day. You and Br. anajmi are doing excellent job.

humble_servant_us
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#126

Unread post by humble_servant_us » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:32 am

Muslim First
I think next time you should be careful using the phrase "iltemas-e-dua" to anyone as it is same as channeling your needs thru someone and may lead to shirk.

hs

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#127

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:41 am

Sayings of Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib :

"There are many educated people who have ruined their future on account of their ignorance of religion. Their knowledge did not prove of any avail to them. "

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#128

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:43 am

Br. Hussain

I had posted link to Essay I posted on "On praying to anybody except Allah SWT"[ http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=2&t=4265 ]

I asked Janab Mubarak Awwal chela of Marhoom His majesty Ismail-Raj (Rh. A) to comment on above essay. He has not done so and I do not expect him to do so. Also 4 stooges who are filling pages of other forum subjects has not commented on it.

Praying to Allah SWT or praying thru Ali, Muhammad, Hasan, Hussain, MHI or dead pious people is matter of choice and it does not depend on their education level.

It is matter of their orientation.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#129

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:33 pm

THE GREATNESS OF HAZRAT ALI A.S.

It was during the times when Hazrat Ali (A.S.) was the caliph of the Muslim Ummah. One day accompanied by his slave Qamber, he went to the cloth bazaar in Kufa. They stopped at one shop, and Ali (A.S.) requested to see some clothes. The shopkeeper recognized him and said “Oh Ameer-al- Mu’mineen! (Master of the faithful) I have and can offer you what you want.”

On noticing that he had already been recognized, Hazrat Ali (A.S.) withdrew from that shop without any deal.Both then proceeded and stopped at another shop run by a young man. From him Hazrat Ali (A.S.) purchased two clothes, one costing three dirham and the other two. He gave the more expensive one of three dirhams to Qamber and retained the cheaper one of lower quality for himself. On seeing this, Qamber objected saying that the better quality cloth would befit him better since Ali (A.S.) was going on the pulpit to deliver Khutbas (sermons). To this Ali (A.S.) argued that the better grade cloth should be worn by Qamber who was younger and was more desirous of attractions. Besides, Ali (A.S.) added, that he had heard the Prophet recommending to them to clothe and feed their slaves the same way as they did for themselves.

From this story, three things are noteworthy:

1. That those in high posts in government should be careful not to take advantage of their positions in matters of personal interests. At if Hazrat Ali (A.S.) by withdrawing from that first shopkeeper wanted to convey to him that the one who desired to purchase cloth was not the Caliph of the country but Ali bin Abi Talib in his personal capacity. The shopkeeper addressed him as Amir-al-Mu’mineen hence he went away without making a deal.

2. The Islamic Shariah has prescribed special and equitable rights for slaves who must receive consideration as human beings. Hence Hazrat Ali (A.S.) was putting this teaching into practice and setting an invaluable example.

3. That Islam has given consideration within limits to the natural desire of younger people to make themselves attractive. In giving better cloth to Qambar, Hazrat Ali (A.S.) wanted to make him feel happy.

Were men of high positions in public institutions today to serve the interests of the people only without misusing their positions for personal gains, people would enjoy better prosperity and peace in the world.

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#130

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:00 am

Humsafar wrote:Hussain bhai,
What else can you expect from a person who considers Abbas Alvi as a scholar and is happy to quote jawariawalla (whoever he may be) and other such freelance mullas with such authority? It is wise to leave him alone with his own sectarian, narrow-minded and self-serving rantings.
Brother Humsafar,

As a resident of Udaipur you have supported my claim through your about post As every one knows you are uncontroversial and to the point sort of man on this forum. I agree with your post and will avoid to ask or reply anything more on this thread.

However, i request you to write at least one post mentioning the sepratist activities led by Marhoom Shaikh Ahmed Ali and his party and how they were apposing the reform movement indirectly or directly by spreading false propaganda against Asghar Ali Engineer and other leaders of bohra youth in Udaipur. I remember that once in Centerl Executive Commeitee meeting Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer has mentioned that he has tried many times to sit togeather and solve the issue with Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj but instead of negotiation he has prevented people attending any function religious or non religios where Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer was preset.

This forum is represented by reformist or progressive people the very group to whom shaikh saheb was opposing & avoiding till the end of his life. Why do his follower are sowing hatred again.

Thank you.

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#131

Unread post by Mubarak » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:47 pm

Ghulam Muhammed:
Ali vs. Jesus :- Indeed, Christians and Shia are very similar as a way of thinking. For instance, Christians take their priests as gods other than Allaah. Shia also take their Imams as gods other than Allaah. Christians take Jesus as a son of Allaah then they describe his death on the cross as he is a weak man who can’t do anything to support his faith. They made him a target to every kind of accusations, mocks, and humiliations. Shia on the other side give Ali a higher position than the prophet Muhammad and claim that Islaam wouldn’t spread and unbelieving wouldn’t be defeated without Ali. However, the claim that he too was weak to defend Islaam after the death of the prophet Muhammad and he had to accept all kinds of accusations and humiliations against himself and against Ahlu-Bayt with no attempt to stop that.

Mubarak:
As per Dawoodi Bohra Shia, we consider Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) as ‘aala’ than Mola Ali (a.s.).

Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) though was the chief commander in all wars of Islam but never ever Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) has used his sword to kill. Why? Because Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) is ‘Rehmatul lil Aalmeen’, he is sent to this world as ‘Rehmat’ by Almighty Allah. Now, what will happen if the ‘Rehmat’ himself will use the sword? Thus, Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) deputy and his successor i.e. who will occupy the space of Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) = Mola Ali (a.s.) fought and single handedly won all the wars.

There was a leader who was the king of world, people know him by the name of “Sikander’ (Alexander), his army marched like big waves of sea. And Alexander won because of the power of his army.

There was one more leader who too was the king of world, people know him by name of Ali ibn Abi Talib(a.s.), there Alexander won becasue of the power of his army and here the Islam army won because of the power of Mola Ali (a.s.)

Salwat on Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) and his progeny

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#132

Unread post by Mubarak » Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:11 pm

Ghulam Muhammed:
Shia vs. Ahlu-Bayt :- All members of Ahl-ul-Bayt (the family of the Holy Prophet) belong to Sunni Muslims. Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq for instance, is the teacher of Imam Malik and Imam Abu-Hanifa. None of Ahlu-Bayt subscribed to the false beliefs of these Rafidiya (Shia). There are numerous solid arguments based on logic and Sharee'ah refuting their religion and false beliefs. These arguments are so many that it would be difficult to recount them all. Therefore they should repent from their false and unfounded beliefs and enter into the fold of Islam.
"They are the enemies, so beware of them. May Allah curse them! How are they denying (or deviating from) the Right Path." (al-Munaafiqoon, verse 4)


These Raafidi (Shia) actually descend from Abu Lu'luah Majoosi (a Persian fire worshipper) and Abdullaah ibn Saba' (a Jew). However they are more dangerous from the Christians themselves. Christians fight Islaam face to face (if they did) while Rafidiya stab Islam from its back.

Mubarak:
The full name is ‘Shia ne Ali’, the word Shia means friend. Shia ne Ali means friends of Ali. This was first used by Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) that whenever a muhib-a-Ali visits him he will tell Mola Ali (a.s.) that O’ Ali your Shia has came. Thus, the Shia recognition was initiated by Prophet Mohammed (s.a.).

History knows who has stabbed whom:

1. Sunni leader Khalid ibn Valeed and Abu Sufiyan murdered leader of Dawoodi Bohras Molana Humza (a.s.)

2. Sunni leader Hinda wife of Abu Sufiyan chewed heart of Dawoodi Bohras leader Molana Humza (a.s.) and later she cut his hands and legs and made garland of that and wore on her neck. Later, Abu Sufiyan minced the dead body of Molana Humza by riding horse.

3. Sunni leader Abu Sufiyan has tried several times to murder Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) by poison, Prophet (s.a.) touched that poisoned food on his tongue and immediately Allah will inform him about the state of food and then Prophet will not eat that but because of that touch there were some affect left thus by this he caught illness and got martyred. Thus, Sunni leader Abu Sufiyan murdered Dawoodi Bohras leader Prophet Mohammed (s.a.)

4. Sunni leader Umar, the 2nd caliph murdered Dawoodi Bohras leader Molatina Fatima (a.s.) daughter of Prophet Mohammed (s.a.)

5. Sunni leader Umar, the 2nd caliph murdered Dawoodi Bohras leader Molana Mohsin son of Molana Ali (a.s.)

6. Sunni leader Maviya murdered by poison Dawoodi Bohras leader Molana Imam Hasan (a.s.)

7. Sunni leader Yazeed murdered Dawoodi Bohras leader Molana Imam Hussain (a.s.)

8. Sunni leader Aurngzeb, on loosing argument on Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) right successor murdered Dawoodi Bohras leader Molana Qutubuddin (r.a.), Ahmedabad, Gujarat

Kalu inna lillahe va inna il’ayhe rajeoon

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#133

Unread post by Danish » Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:41 pm

Mubarak wrote:History knows who has stabbed whom:

1. Sunni leader Khalid ibn Valeed and Abu Sufiyan murdered leader of Dawoodi Bohras Molana Humza (a.s.)

2. Sunni leader Hinda wife of Abu Sufiyan chewed heart of Dawoodi Bohras leader Molana Humza (a.s.) and later she cut his hands and legs and made garland of that and wore on her neck. Later, Abu Sufiyan minced the dead body of Molana Humza by riding horse.

3. Sunni leader Abu Sufiyan has tried several times to murder Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) by poison, Prophet (s.a.) touched that poisoned food on his tongue and immediately Allah will inform him about the state of food and then Prophet will not eat that but because of that touch there were some affect left thus by this he caught illness and got martyred. Thus, Sunni leader Abu Sufiyan murdered Dawoodi Bohras leader Prophet Mohammed (s.a.)

4. Sunni leader Umar, the 2nd caliph murdered Dawoodi Bohras leader Molatina Fatima (a.s.) daughter of Prophet Mohammed (s.a.)

5. Sunni leader Umar, the 2nd caliph murdered Dawoodi Bohras leader Molana Mohsin son of Molana Ali (a.s.)

6. Sunni leader Maviya murdered by poison Dawoodi Bohras leader Molana Imam Hasan (a.s.)

7. Sunni leader Yazeed murdered Dawoodi Bohras leader Molana Imam Hussain (a.s.)

8. Sunni leader Aurngzeb, on loosing argument on Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) right successor murdered Dawoodi Bohras leader Molana Qutubuddin (r.a.), Ahmedabad, Gujarat

Kalu inna lillahe va inna il’ayhe rajeoon
Mubarak, where do get these "BS" (Bull Shit) from and how do they reflect our current lives? There were NO Dawoodi Bohras during any of your eight points above. Which school or Jamiah are you educated from? :shock:

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#134

Unread post by Danish » Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:45 pm

?
Last edited by Danish on Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#135

Unread post by Danish » Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:47 pm

??

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#136

Unread post by Mubarak » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:04 pm

Danish:
There were NO Dawoodi Bohras during any of your eight points above.

Mubarak:
Dawoodi Bohras is synonymous of (pristine) Islam.

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#137

Unread post by Danish » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:23 pm

Mubarak wrote:Danish:
There were NO Dawoodi Bohras during any of your eight points above.

Mubarak:
Dawoodi Bohras is synonymous of (pristine) Islam.
What's (pristine) about Islam? Have you read your "allah's" Quran lately or the history of the idolworshipping Arabs who brought about Islam?

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#138

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:05 pm

Mubarakbhai,

Since when have Hamza a.s. and Panjatan pak a.s. become your leaders ? The only leader that you worship and the world at large is aware of is burhanudin saab and his father. Youll take shelter under those highly noble and spiritual souls and use the banner of Islam just like Bal Thackerey and the saffron brigade uses hindutva and Ram to fool the public. If at all Nabi s.a.w. and Panjatan pak a.s. occupied an esteem position in your hearts then see the importance given by the bohras to events like Milad un Nabi and the Vilaadat and Shahadat of Imam Hasan a.s. The celebrations carried out on those days which have tremendous religous and spiritual significance is not even 10% to the grandour, pomp and show that is carried out on burhanudin saab's birthdays and Taher Saifudin saab's urus.

Ask any bohra the date of Milad un Nabi or Vilaadat and Shahadat dates of Imam Hasan a.s. or the date of shahadat of Hamza a.s. and you will get a blank response but the dates of burhanudin saab's birthday or taher saifudin saab's urus will be very well remembered and known to them. The niyaz done on Milad un Nabi is not even 5% of the lavish food served during 51st dai's urus and then youll call yourselves believers of Islam and Nabi s.a.w. Where is the loyalty towards them ?

Regarding the Sunni factor to which youll are extremely jealous of, try to get hold of the tapes of burhanudin saab's previous vayezs in which he has called himself a "Sunni" and has even called himself a "Vaaghri".

The other parts of your post will be answered at one shot and in a nutshell in due course.

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#139

Unread post by Mubarak » Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:51 am

JC:
Why Ali married his daughter Umm-Kulsoom (if I remember the name correctly) to Usman?

Mubarak:
Brother JC, this contention is untrue as per history records.

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#140

Unread post by like_minded » Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:00 am

Mubarak

Your posts are irrelevant and senseless.

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#141

Unread post by Mubarak » Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:06 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:
Mubarak wrote: Engineer Asgher Ali is a Daroo (alcohol) Drinker (proof in book ‘Nikab Kushai’ and 'Daroo' is the mother of all evils).
So you agree that Daroo is haraam, Good. If so then why does burhanudin saab have 'Daroo ni dukaan' as his tenants and why does he enjoy its rent ? (Glamour bldg, Arthur bunder road, Colaba,Mumbai). That too not only one but I believe there are almost 4 'daroo ni dukaan' in his building. Now you will argue that he cannot remove them due to the Rent Act. Definately he would find it difficult to remove them legally but then there are scores of other things which he does illegally against the spirit of Islam so if he adds one more case and that too for keeping the spirit of Islam alive then wouldnt it be a noble thing ? He can offer them an amount which could be more then the market value which anyone would gladly accept and that would not make even a pinhole in his pocket. And if he has business acumen which everyone knows he has more then even the Ambanis then he can start a collection/extortion drive which is kothar's normal practice.

Also, before pointing fingers at Mr.Engineer who is not an amil or even a religous leader look at your religous leader's own family. Randomly go to Radio Club at Colaba and you will find the son of late mukasir Salehbhai saab enjoying a couple of pegs. The person in reference is also the dai's son-in-law and inspite of that he is a good human being. This is only one example which is visible and for people to see as no one has yet seen what the other shehzadas/bhaisaabs do during their never ending rendezvous in foreign countries and that too at the expense of the community. So "Jiske apne ghar sheeshe ke ho, woh doosro par patthar nahi pheka karte".

Quran: Ya ai’uhal lazina aaminu innamal khamro…balagul mubeen
Surat: Al Maida (5): 90 to 92:
O’ people of faith alcohol, gambling, idols and dice throwing are sinful and work of Satan. Thus prevent yourself from them.

Among all above four ‘haram’ items - alcohol (Daroo) ranks as number one ‘haram’ item.

Prophet Mohammed: “Mud’minul khamri ka’aabidi vasne”, it means Alcohol (daroo) drinker is equal to idol worshipper.

Daimul Islam (Part 2nd): Alcohol (daroo) is ‘haram’. People who are directly or indirectly associated with manufacturing of alcohol, sellers/distributors/stockiest, buyer, drinker, waiter, who facilitates its distribution, labors who are helping in alcohol logistics, entrepreneur who eats income from alcohol – On all of these people our Aaka Rasoolallah (s.a.) have sent ‘Laanat’ and categorized them as ‘Maloon’.

In Shariyat-a-Mohammadi, if it proves that someone has consumed daroo (alcohol) less or more then he/she must be whipped 80 times, irrespective of the status of drinker – slave or free, Christian or Muslim or Jew, or anyone else. If someone drinks alcohol again after this punishment then he/she must be whipped again 80 times. If the daroo drinker breaches four times this sin then on the fifth instance he must be executed. If a person drinks alcohol in the month of Ramdan then after whipping 80 times wait for some moments and then whip additional 39 times. The foundation of Shariyat-a-Mohammadi is ‘Akal’ intellect thus the enemy of intellect = alcohol (daroo) is prohibited and is mother of all evils.

Ghulam Muhammed bhai, assuming your allegations about Janab Burhannuddin sahib is true then as per Quran and Daimul Islam (part 2) both Janab Burhannuddin son of Janab Tahir Saiffuddin and Janab Engineer Asghar Ali are guilty of sin, are liable to penalty/punishment and will be categorized as per above text highlighted in bold, underlined and in red color.

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#142

Unread post by Danish » Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:30 am

Mubarak wrote: Surat: Al Maida (5): 90 to 92:
O’ people of faith alcohol, gambling, idols and dice throwing are sinful and work of Satan. Thus prevent yourself from them.

Among all above four ‘haram’ items - alcohol (Daroo) ranks as number one ‘haram’ item.
2:219 ~ They ask you about intoxicants and gambling: say, "In them there is a gross sin and some benefits for the people. But their sinfulness far outweighs their benefit."
Prophet Mohammed: “Mud’minul khamri ka’aabidi vasne”, it means Alcohol (daroo) drinker is equal to idol worshipper.
Alcoholism and Idolworshipping are totally seperate subjects. There is no punishment for intoxicants mentioned in the Quran.

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#143

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:18 am

There is a difference between "no punishment is mentioned" and not being punished.

As per the quran

2:219 ~ They ask you about intoxicants and gambling: say, "In them there is a gross sin and some benefits for the people. But their sinfulness far outweighs their benefit."

005.090
O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper.



What does the quran say about sins?

099.007
Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it!
099.008
And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it.


Intoxication is a sin and it will be punished.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#144

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:29 pm

Mubarak wrote:Ghulam Muhammed bhai, assuming your allegations about Janab Burhannuddin sahib is true then as per Quran and Daimul Islam (part 2) both Janab Burhannuddin son of Janab Tahir Saiffuddin and Janab Engineer Asghar Ali are guilty of sin, are liable to penalty/punishment and will be categorized as per above text highlighted in bold, underlined and in red color.
There is no assumption here, it is confirmation because the place of business is mentioned and one can physically go and verify the facts. Iam happy that by putting burhanudin saab and Mr.Engineer on the same platform you have atleast admitted that every human being is equal in the eyes of Allah swt irrespective of the worldly status they occupy.

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#145

Unread post by Danish » Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:32 pm

anajmi wrote:Intoxication is a sin and it will be punished.
Only if it is misused or abused, else the statement "there's some benefit" in 2:219 would become moot. I fully acknowledge that any intoxication or gambling or games of chances when intentionally misused or abused has dire consequences and I don't need a religious god to bent-over-backwards to tell me that. It's pretty obvious.

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#146

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:46 pm

"there' some benefit" is not moot. It is a fact. The quran simply acknowledges that fact and says that even though there is some benefit, the sin is greater. The quran doesn't say the sin is greater if you abuse or misuse. You need to read the quran when you are not drunk. Then you might understand. LOL!!

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#147

Unread post by Danish » Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:09 pm

When you state that "intoxication is a sin and will be punished" or "alcohol is haraam and prohibited" yet there are "some benefits and not a sin" (paraphrase) sounds gibberish. It is the same as alleging that there is a fathomless yet fathomable male supernatural god. :lol:

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#148

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:01 pm

You need an IQ above 50 to understand it. So to you, it will always be gibberish.

Right
Posts: 65
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#149

Unread post by Right » Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:52 am

DEAR ALL,

YOU ALL MUST HAVE HEARD THE PROVEB , WRITTEN IN ALL NEWSPAPERS,THAT

" ALL MUSLIMS ARE NOT TERRORIST, BUT ALL TERRORIST ARE MUSLIMS". BUT I WILL WRITE IN A MORE SPECIFIC WAY, THAT

" ALL MUSLIMS ARE NOT TERRORIST, BUT ALL TERRORIST ARE SUNNI MUSLIMS".

THIS IS PROVED BY THE DEEDS OF THE SUNNI MUSLIMS THATTHEY ARE FROM THE HEIR OF , THE THREE CALIPHS ABUBAKER, UMAR, USMAN, WHO HAVE NOT HESITATED IN KILLING THE RELATIVES OF THEIR PROPHET MOHAMMED RASULLAH (A.S).

KILLING OF CHILDREN , WOMEN & INNCOENT PEOPLE ARE IN THEIR BLOOD.

IT IS A FACT THAT ONLY " SHIAS OF ALI " ARE TRUE FOLLOWERS OF ISLAM.

AND THIS STATEMENT DOES NOT NEED ANY REFERENCE FROM AMY SCHOLAR.

IF YOU RECENT INCIDENTS IN MY COUNTRY INDIA, THESE BLOODY SUNNI TERRORIST HAS MAKE LIFE OF THE PEOPLE MISERABLE.

DOING BOMB BLAST, ATTACKING ANY BUILDINGS IN THE NAME OF JEHAAD AND CALLING THEMSELVES FIDAYEEN .

THERE IS NO CHANCE OF JOINING HANDS WITH TERRORIST SUNNI PEOPLE.

THEY ARE BALCK SPOT ON THE NAME OF ISLAM.

THEY HAVE NOT LEAVED THE HOUSE OF THEIR NABI, THEN WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO SHOW MWERCY ON OTHER PEOPLE.

BECAUSE OF THEM NAME OF ISLAM HAS BECOME BAD IN THE WORLD.

PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD ARE LOOKING AT MUSLIMS WITH A VERY DOWN EYES.

SUNNIS SHOULD BE BAN FROM CALLING THEM AS MUSALMAN.

SHIAS AND ONLY SHIAS ARE TRUE MUSLIMS.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#150

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:07 am

Right wrote:" ALL MUSLIMS ARE NOT TERRORIST, BUT ALL TERRORIST ARE SUNNI MUSLIMS".
Mr.Right,

Either you are one from an ignorant lot or the one on whom the experiment of injecting poison by the corrupt shia ulemas has succeeded. Remember that terrorists have no religion and they are nothing else but simply terrorists. The amount of terrorism spread by the shias since many years is almost the same as spread by the so called sunnis. Go through the below mentioned write-up which is one amongst the many that are available freely :-

Exclusive: TERRORIST TRAINING CAMPS IN IRAN.
Monday, 27 February 2006
Iran Focus

London, Feb. 27 – Iran Focus has obtained a list of 20 terrorist camps and centres run by Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC).

The names and details of the training centres were provided by a defector from the IRGC, who has recently left Iran and now lives in hiding in a neighbouring country. Iran Focus agreed to keep his identity secret for obvious security reasons.

The former IRGC officer said the camps and the training centres were under the control of the IRGC’s elite Qods Force, the extra-territorial arm of the Revolutionary Guards.

“The Qods Force has an extensive network that uses the facilities of Iranian embassies or cultural and economic missions or a number of religious institutions such as the Islamic Communications and Culture Organisation to recruit radical Islamists in Muslim countries or among the Muslims living in the West. After going through preliminary training and security checks in those countries, the recruits are then sent to Iran via third countries and end up in one of the Qods Force training camps”, the officer said.

The Imam Ali Garrison has been a long-time training ground for foreign terrorist operatives. Presently, some 50 Islamists from neighbouring Arab countries are receiving training there in five groups of 10, the officer said.

“Iraq followed by the Palestinian territories have become the focal point of the Qods Force’s activities. Many of the foreign recruits in these camps now come from these two areas, but others come from a wide range of countries, including the Arab states of the Persian Gulf, North Africa and south-east Asia”, he said. “In most camps, the Sunnis outnumber the Shiites”.

“The scale and breadth of Qods Force operations in Iraq are far beyond what we did even during the war with Saddam”, the officer said, referring to the IRGC’s extensive activities in Iraq during the eight-year Iran-Iraq war in the 1980s. “Vast areas of Iraq are under the virtual control of the Qods Force through its Iraqi surrogates. It uses a vast array of charities, companies and other fronts to conduct its activities across Iraq”.

“We would send our officers into Iraq to operate for months under the cover of a construction company”, he said. “Kawthar Company operated in Najaf last year to carry out construction work in the area around Imam Ali Shrine, but it was in fact a front company for the Qods Force. Qods officers, disguised as company employees, established contacts with Iraqi operatives and organised underground cells in southern Iraq”.

The officer said Qods Force officers also used the Iranian Red Crescent and the state-run television and radio corporation as fronts for their operations in Iraq.

A special branch inside Iran’s Foreign Ministry is responsible for assisting the Qods Force in bringing in foreign recruits. The recruits first travel to third countries where they are given new passports by Iranian agents to facilitate their entry into Iran. Upon finishing their training course, the new agents leave Iran for third countries from where they use their genuine passports to return to their countries of origin or where missions are planned.

The list of the bases used for training terrorists identified for Iran Focus are as follows:

1) Imam Ali Training Garrison, Tajrish Square, Tehran,
2) Bahonar Garrison, Chalous Street, close to the dam of Karaj,
3) Qom’s Ali-Abad Garrison, Tehran-Qom highway,
4) Mostafa Khomeini Garrison, Eshrat-Abad district, Tehran,
5) Crate Camp Garrison, 40 kilometres from the Ahwaz-Mahshar highway,
6) Fateh Qani-Hosseini Garrison, between Tehran and Qom
7) Qayour Asli Garrison, 30 kilometres from Ahwaz-Khorramshahr highway,
8) Abouzar Garrison, Qaleh-Shahin district, Ahwaz, Khuzestan province
9) Hezbollah Garrison, Varamin, east of Tehran
10) Eezeh Training Garrison
11) Amir-ol-Momenin Garrison, Ban-Roushan, Ilam province
12) Kothar Training Garrison, Dezful Street, Shoushtar, Khuzestan province
13) Imam Sadeq Garrison, Qom
14) Lavizan Training Centre, north-east Tehran
15) Abyek Training Centre, west of Tehran
16) Dervish Training Centre, 18 kilometres from the Ahwaz-Mahshar highway,
17) Qazanchi Training Centre, Ravansar-Kermanshah-Kamyaran tri-junction,
18) Beit-ol-Moqaddas University, Qom
19) Navab Safavi School, Ahwaz
20) Nahavand Training Centre, 45 kilometres from Nahavand, western Iran