Mola Ali (a.s.)

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Muslim First
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#91

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:22 am

guilts make Janab Abubaker/ Janab Umar / Janab Usman / Janaba Aaisha / Janab Abu Sufiyan / Janab Khalid ibn Valeed / Janab Maviya and Janab Yazeed guilt free?
Br Mubarak

You and your kind have been repeating this "Guilt free" Mantra for 1200 years. Those people are dead. If you have guts then go piss on their graves and satisfy your lust for revenge, but stop this bull shit and GET OVERE IT. Weather they are guilty or innocent it will make NO DIFFERENCE IN WORSHIP OF ALLAH SWT.

I beg your forgiveness but you need you be told in this fashion. Sorry for shouting at you.

Wasalaam and I ask Allah help to give me enough will power to prevent me from reading your response.

Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#92

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:44 am

Mubarak: Ahmed bin Hunbal (originator of Sunni fiqa-a-Hunbali) wrote in his ‘mustnad’ book: “Among all the ‘sahaba-e-Rasul (s.a.)’ no one has more prominence than Ali ibn Abi Talib.” Thus, whatever hadees/Quran quotes you can present for character comparison between your trio caliphs with Mola Ali (a.s.), then by default as per your Imam Ahmed bin Hunbal, Mola Ali will be proven superior than Janab Abubaker/Umar/Usman.

Hazrat Abdullah ibn Abbas (r.a.): Rasoolallah said, “Oratory about Ali is prayers. Allah will not accept faith of his believer without the boycott of the thoughts of Ali’s enemy and presence of Ali’s love.” Thus, Dawoodi Bohras boycott selected thoughts/actions/claims of trio caliphs and love Mola Ali (a.s.). Same like we boycott ‘satan’ (Aaoozo billahe min’ash shaitan nir razeem) before reading ‘Bismillah hir Rahman nir Raheem’. Thus, this boycott is as per Rasoolallah (s.a.) order and not ill speech.
Yes sir br. Mubark

Your Ali Moala RA is 1000000000000000000000000000000 times better then other ‘sahaba-e-Rasul (s.a.). NOW HAPPY. Now get to worshipping Allah SWT.
Thus, Dawoodi Bohras boycott selected thoughts/actions/claims of trio caliphs and love Mola Ali (a.s.).
Easy solution. Shaifee hospital should establish a Neurological surgery section for Bohras. In this surgery a section of brain in which this satanic thoughts reside will be cut out. Any sections of brains in which these "selected thoughts/actions/claims of trio caliphs" reside will be maapped and cut off. (It is just like FGM Bohra Women go thru). This will also provede new source of Revenue for Starved Rayal family.

Mubarak
Posts: 471
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#93

Unread post by Mubarak » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:30 am

Muslim First:
Yes sir br. Mubark

Your Ali Moala RA is 1000000000000000000000000000000 times better then other ‘sahaba-e-Rasul (s.a.). NOW HAPPY. Now get to worshipping Allah SWT.



Mubarak:
Valekum afzal salam va rahmatullah va barkatahu

Dear Highly Respected Brother Mr. Muslim First sahib,

You see Mola Ali (a.s.)/truth is unconquerable.

Khawaja Gareeb Nawaz Moinuddin Hasan Chisti, (Ajmer, Rajasthan, India) said:

Shah ast Hussain, Badshah ast Hussain
Deen ast Hussain, Deen panha ast Hussain
Sir dad, na dad; dar dast-a-Yazeed
Haq’qa ke binaye La Ilaha ast Hussain


Details of this stanza’s on Saturday or any other time, Inshallah. However, in the last line Khawaja Sahab says that ‘Haq’/‘La Ilaha’ foundation is Hussain i.e. if you wish to build prayers of Almighty Allah then the foundation should be Hussain.

Thus, as per Khawaja sahab, without affiliation to Hussain son of Mola Ali (or with your afifiliations to Janab Abubaker / Janab Umar / Janab Usman /Janab Yazeed /Janab Maviya /) you cannot build prayers for Allah.

Humbly and sincerely,

Mubarak

Muslim First
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#94

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:04 pm

Thus, as per Khawaja sahab, without affiliation to Hussain son of Mola Ali (or with your afifiliations to Janab Abubaker / Janab Umar / Janab Usman /Janab Yazeed /Janab Maviya /) you cannot build prayers for Allah.
Let me make it perfectly clear to you brother Mubarak

We sunni Muslim do not pray to Allah SWT linking our prayers with Hz.Abubaker / Hz Umar / Hz Usman / Yazeed / Maviya.
As per Qur'an we are permitted to pray to Allah SWT without chanalling our prayers thruogh anybody.

In Namaaz we do not take this people's name.

DO I MAKE IT CRYSTLE CLEAR?

You may follow Kwaja's dictate and pray thru Hussain. I DO NOT CARE.

Wasalaam

Mubarak
Posts: 471
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#95

Unread post by Mubarak » Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:24 pm

Muslim First wrote:
guilts make Janab Abubaker/ Janab Umar / Janab Usman / Janaba Aaisha / Janab Abu Sufiyan / Janab Khalid ibn Valeed / Janab Maviya and Janab Yazeed guilt free?
Br Mubarak

You and your kind have been repeating this "Guilt free" Mantra for 1200 years. Those people are dead. If you have guts then go piss on their graves and satisfy your lust for revenge, but stop this bull shit and GET OVERE IT. Weather they are guilty or innocent it will make NO DIFFERENCE IN WORSHIP OF ALLAH SWT.

I beg your forgiveness but you need you be told in this fashion. Sorry for shouting at you.

Wasalaam and I ask Allah help to give me enough will power to prevent me from reading your response.

Dear Very Highly Respected Sincere Brother Mr. Muslim First sahib ji,

Kindly read last line of your post:
"Wasalaam and I ask Allah help to give me enough will power to prevent me from reading your response."

You read my response!!!
It implies that Allah has not responded to your prayers. This is what happens when Hussain son of Mola Ali is absent as foundation in your prayers to Allah.

FYI: Khawaja Gareeb Nawaz Moinuddin Hasan Chisti, (Ajmer, Rajasthan, India) is very highly revered by Sunni’s. His 'mazar' is maintained by Sunni Muslims and as per Sunni’s he is the most prominent priest in Hindustan.

Muslim First
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#96

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:32 pm

Here is my revised prayer

In the name of Hussain son of Maula Ali I I ask Allah help to give me enough will power to prevent me from reading your response.

Wasalaam

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#97

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:37 pm

Khawaja Gareeb Nawaz Moinuddin Hasan Chisti, (Ajmer, Rajasthan, India) is very highly revered by Sunni’s.
God help those Sunnis

His 'mazar' is maintained by Sunni Muslims
Money they spend on this has no benifit for them. I would spend my money to help poor

and as per Sunni’s he is the most prominent priest in Hindustan.
May be he is most prominet priest but he is dead. Poojaris are getting rich in the name of dead prominent prist

Muslim First
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#98

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:16 pm

Your Excellancy Mubarak Bhai

AS

Please read this Essay and give your comments. What Saikh is writing, is it wrong?

THE ESSAY- On praying to anybody except Allah SWT
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=2&t=4265

Wasalaam

Mubarak
Posts: 471
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#99

Unread post by Mubarak » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:29 pm

(1)
“Death and life are in hand of my Allah”, said Prophet Ibrahim (a.s.).

“Likewise in my hand, I can order death for person with no guilt, and can pardon someone who is to be beheaded. Thus, to given death and life is in my hand as well”, replied Namrood.

Prophet Ibrahim replied, “Tu ne baat banayi hai.”

(2)
An anti-Muslim said that I followed Rasoolallah (s.a.) suggestion that by taking ‘kilonji’ seeds with honey will care my stomach ache. I did it WORD BY WORD but my stomach ache is not cured.

“Love and affiliation is absent, thus it will not benefit you”, replied Imam Jaffer Sadik (a.s.).


Dear Brother Muslim First sahib,

Like Namrood, aapne yeh ‘baat banai hai’: "In the name of Hussain son of Maula Ali I I ask Allah help to give me enough will power to prevent me from reading your response."

By the same token of anti-Muslim reply by Imam Jaffer Sadik (a.s.), because ‘aapne baat banai hai’ and true love and affiliation of Imam Hussain s/o Ali is absent thus your prayers by default will not benefit you.

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#100

Unread post by Mubarak » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:03 pm

Dear Respected Brother Mr. Ghulam Muhammed sahib,

With mercy of Almighty Allah and vasila of Panjatan (a.s.), the balance information sharing will be on Saturday, Inshallah.

I carefully read your arguments, I was wondering if you can kindly suggest: how citing Kothars / Janab Burhannuddin guilts make Janab Abubaker/ Janab Umar / Janab Usman / Janaba Aaisha / Janab Abu Sufiyan / Janab Khalid ibn Valeed / Janab Maviya and Janab Yazeed guilt free?

Thanking you,

Yours brotherly and sincerely,

Mubarak

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#101

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:43 pm

Mubarakbhai,

An interesting post had come up on this forum sometime back which Iam quoting below because it goes perfectly well with the line of thinking of true muslims and I fully subscribe to it and treat this as part of my debate.

It is well known that Hadrat Ali ibn Abi Taalib (r.a.) married Hadrat Fatima bint Mohamed Rasool Allah (r.a.) and had two sons from this marriage; Imam Hassan ibn Ali (r.a.) and Imam Hussain ibn Ali (r.a.). After the death of Hadrat Fatema bint Mohamed Rasool Allah (r.a.), Hadrat Ali (r.a.) married several times and had in excess of 20 children, including 11 daughters. And in accordance of Islamic law, he had no more than four wives at any one time. At the time of his death, it is recorded that he had four wives and nineteen slave girls. Hadrat Ali (r.a.) married a woman from the tribe of Banu Kilaab and her name was Muhaiyya bint Imr-ul-Qais. The children from this marriage were:
1. Abbas al Akbar bin Ali (Abbas Alamdar).
2. Uthman bin Ali.
3. Jaafar bin Ali.
4. Abdulla bin Ali. Hadrat Ali (r.a.) later married Laila bin Masood Nashaliyyah and the children from this marriage were:
1. Abu Bakr bin Ali.
2. Obaidullah bin Ali. Hadrat Ali (r.a.) also married a woman from the tribe of Banu Taglab and the children from this marriage were twins: a boy and a girl named:
1. Umar bin Ali
2. Ruqqayyah bint Ali Hadrat Ali (r.a.) later married a very famous woman named Asma bint Umais, who incidentally was the widow of both, Jaafar Al Tayyar (r.a.) and Abu Bakr as Siddiq (r.a.). From this marriage they had a son named Yahya bin Ali. I just want to point out something here:
· The above is all recorded history, but the impression our clergy give is that Hadrat Ali (r.a.) only married Hadrat Fatema (r.a.). They mention Imam Hasan bin Ali and Imam Hussain bin Ali, but never talk about his other children, especially the ones named Abu Bakr bin Ali, Umar bin Ali and Uthman bin Ali.
· If what some sects of Islam say about the relationship between Hadrat Ali (r.a.) and Abu Bakr as Siddiq, Umar Al Khattab and Uthman bin Affan is true, then why would Hadrat Ali (r.a.) keep the names of his sons Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman? Hadart Ali (r.a.) only married and fathered these children after the death of the Messenger of Allah (saws). If Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman were indeed enemies of Hadrat Ali (r.a.), as some people would have us believe, why would Hadrat Ali (r.a.) name his children after their names? Some people have tried to explain this by saying that Hadrat Ali (r.a.) kept these names, despite his enmity with Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, because of political reasons! That is absolutely absurd! Those who claim this, actually dishonor and degrade the high position and the noble character of Hadrat Ali ibn Abi Taalib (r.a.), and have just not recognized the ‘maqaam’ of Hadrat Ali (r.a.). By explaining that Hadrat Ali (r.a.) kept these names for political reasons, they actually accuse Hadrat Ali (r.a.) of hypocrisy …. And I swear by Allah, whoever claims thus are liars!! Hadrat Ali’s (r.a.) bravery, courage, boldness, daring, heroism and fearlessness have been praised by the Messenger of Allah (saws) himself, and has been appropriately recorded in Islamic history. The truth of the matter is that there was no enmity between all these noble companions of the Messenger of Allah (saws). This enmity was manufactured and invented by unscrupulous and venal people for their own political gains, years after the death of these noble and close ‘sahabees’ of the Messenger of Allah (saws)! And by doing so, they succeeded in breaking up Islam into various sects, and made each into a small kingdom of its own! May Allah take full retribution with the people who have played this mischief and caused chaos in the One ‘ummah’ of Islam. These are historical facts! Not the 'bizare fake factoids' and incidents of enmity invented by the unscrupulous enemies of Islam! One can easily fabricate incidents and say that this event happened and this conversation took place, when nothing of the sort happened! But it is rather impossible to quote the existance of the children that Hadrat Ali fathered and named them Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthmaan! The Shia scholars never ever bring up this issue because it is irrefutable! They just dont have an answer why would a person of the stature of Hadrat Ali name his children such.... especially after these scholars were so busy propagating the ardent enmity between the noble companions of Allah!

Choose any comprehensive history book of Islam (be they from Shia historians or Sunni)... these names are mentioned .... If I had to give you all the names of the historians who recorded these... it would indeed be lengthy!!! Brother Simon, incidents can be created or omitted! Even the recorders of hadiths were men.. so they can make a mistake!!! But no one can invent names of the children of Ameer-ul-mumineen Imam Ali ibn Abi Taalib (r.a.)!!!!! Here are some names in which these are clearly mentioned... and I am sure there could be hundreds of more such books:
1. Abu Osman Omero-ibn Bahr-ul-Jahiz in his book Al-bayan-wo-Tabyan.
2. Ibne-Quateeba-e-Daynoori in his books Oyoon-ul-Akhbar and Ghareeb-ul-hadees
3. Ibne-Wazeh-e-Qaquoobee
4. Abu Haneefa-e-Daynoori in his book Akhbar-e-tawal
5. Abul-Abbas Almobard in his book Kitab-ul-Mobard...
6. Abu Mohamed Hussan ibne Ali ibne Shoba-e-halbee in his book Thohfath-ul-Oquool.
7. Ibne-Wareed in his book Almoojthabnee
8. Ibne-Abd Rabbahoo in Aqud-ul-Fareed
9. Siquathul Islam Koolaynee in Kaafee.
10. Ali ibne Mohamed Ibne Abdulla e Madance.
11. Yaqooth-e-Hamaveene in Mojam-ul-Addiba
12. Massodee in Mrravj-ul-Zahab
13. Abul Farj Isfahanee in Aaghanee
14. Abu Ali Quali in Nawadir
15. Shaikh Sadook in Kital-ul-Taoheed ooooo.... I can go on and on... and mind you, the above are all Shia historians!!!! I have purposely not given any of the Sunni historians for fear that you might outright reject their writings!!!!! But if you want that list.. please do ask

humble_servant_us
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#102

Unread post by humble_servant_us » Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:04 am

Ghulam muhammed,

What logic is this that someone can't keep names of his children to the names of his enemies. If the names have good meanings what is harm in keeping it. Names may be good but not necessarily the personality carrying the name may be good.

Someone's name may be Muhammed but his character may be like Abu Jahl.

As per bohras Aliasghar Engineer is enemy of dawat, so if Sayedna keeps his sons/grandsons name Aliasghar it does not mean Aliasghar is not his enemy. Think about this example 1000yrs down the line.

You have quoted so many references in support of Ali(as) naming his children after the khalifs and then it is your qiyas that ali(as) had no enmity with the khalifs based on this. But I can quote more number of references about Ghadir in which there is no qiyas but facts that ali(as) was declared the successor of prophet(pbuh). Base on this the logic is that if someone who has usurped the right of ali(as) (as declared by prophet(pbuh)) is not a friend of the prophet(pbuh) and his Lord.

Muslim First
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#103

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:52 am

But I can quote more number of references about Ghadir in which there is no qiyas but facts that ali(as) was declared the successor of prophet(pbuh). Base on this the logic is that if someone who has usurped the right of ali(as) (as declared by prophet(pbuh)) is not a friend of the prophet(pbuh) and his Lord.
I think you should present it. Then mainstrem Muslim can present his interpretration of same pronouncemnt. Let us understand each other.

Wasalaam

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#104

Unread post by Mubarak » Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:15 pm

Dear Brother Muslim First,

I saw a post from you where you have greeted Juma mubarak to me and I too wish to offer you heartiest Juma mubarakbad.

But, I am wondering where your post vanished!

Best regards,

Mubarak

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#105

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:55 pm

humble_servant_us wrote:What logic is this that someone can't keep names of his children to the names of his enemies. If the names have good meanings what is harm in keeping it. Names may be good but not necessarily the personality carrying the name may be good.
Does a bohra name his child 'Yazid' or for that matter even 'Abdul Rehman' or 'Aaisha' but he is definately allowed to name his child 'Firoz'. When Hazrat Ali a.s. can name His sons as 'Abu Bakr', 'Umar' and 'Usman' why is it vehemently prohibited by burhanudin saab to do the same where his followers are concerned ? Is he not the follower of Hazrat Ali a.s. just as he claims to be one ? Regarding 'Abdul Rehman' and 'Firoz', this is part of an evil theory adopted by kothar, the details of which I will come out with later on.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#106

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:02 pm

Br.Humble_servant_us,

To answer the other part of your post, dont forget that Ali Asger was also the name of Imam Hussain a.s.'s son and hence there is no problem with that name.

Regarding my views and beliefs of Hazrat Ali a.s. and His succession and the event of Ghadeer-e-khum, kindly refer my earlier post in this section and you will find that my views dont clash with those of yours.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#107

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:29 pm

Br. Mubarak

AS

and thank you.

You ask Admin.

They have become arbitrator of which mail of mine stays and goes. Some time my responses are not very diplopic. I am here to learn and let you know what myself and other 1 Billion mainstream Muslims believe.

Ask them and they will help you out what you are looking for.

Like I said I do not believe in channeling prayers thru anybody. If that was case I would have become Shia, Bohra, Christian or Hindu.

Wasalaam

Mubarak
Posts: 471
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#108

Unread post by Mubarak » Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:06 am

Ghulam Muhammed:
Shia curses Ali (May Allah be pleased with him):- Their insults and curses are not limited just to the Rightly Guided Khalifas but are also directed towards Ali. Because Ali himself, in Masjid Rabia, gave the oath of allegiance (bai'ah) to Abu Bakr and also gave his daughter, Umm Kulthum in marriage to Umar. He also willingly gave the oath of allegiance (bai'ah) to Uthmaan. Not only this, but he was actually the right hand man and a well wisher of the Rightly Guided Khalifas. So could Ali chose a kafir as a son-in-law for himself? And could Ali have given the oath of allegiance (bai'ah), as he did, to a kafir? Subhân Allah (Glory to God)! This indeed is a great accusation!

Mubarak:
Ghulam Muhammed: “Rasul Allah s.a.w. in his last qutbah at Ghadeer e khum. Herein Rasul Allah s.a.w. said " Mankun to Mola va Ali un Mola" (To whom Iam the mola, Ali a.s. is his mola.

It can be inferred from your writings that as per you the trio caliphs were obedient of Prophet Mohammed (s.a.), Isn't it? Further you write that Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) unambiguously announced “Mankun to Mola va Ali un Mola" (To whom Iam the mola, Ali a.s. is his mola). Thus, trio should have abided by Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) orders. If they did abide then we deduce that they have given their oath of allegiance to Mola Ali (a.s.) following Prophet (s.a.) orders and if they have not abided by Prophets (s.a.) order then they are not Muslim. Hence, as per you it is trio who will give oath to Mola Ali (a.s.) and not otherwise. Hence proved the contention that Mola Ali (a.s.) gave oath to Abubaker/Usman is null, void and untrue.

Ghulam Muhammed:
…also gave his daughter, Umm Kulthum in marriage to Umar.

Mubarak:
I confirmed with Dr. Abbas Ali Alvi, a scholar in Udaipur and also with Molana Asghar Ali, Zafar Jewellery LLC (UAE, Qatar and Pakistan) he is an Isna’shari Shia scholar - they both expressed that there is no such case registered in authentic history and this contention is fabricated and untrue. Their contact details can be provided on request via Private Message.

Ghulam Muhammed:
he was actually the right hand man and a well wisher of the Rightly Guided Khalifas

Mubarak:
Right hand means one who does ‘Mushkil Kushai’ and Mola Ali (a.s.) is ‘Mushkil Kusha’. Your trio caliphs were shrewd linchpin in snatching the top seat of the Islamic state but were poor and ignorant in solving simple to complex Islamic issues whereas Mola Ali (a.s.) was just opposite to your trio caliphs in these two matters. Thus your trio has to seek ‘mushkil kushai’ from Mola Ali (a.s.). Only Sunni’s advocate that God has pasted truth on the tongue of Umar and your Umar always said (takya kalam) “agar Ali na hote to Umar halak ho gaya hota

Mubarak
Posts: 471
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#109

Unread post by Mubarak » Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:56 am

Ghulam Muhammed:
Shia curses Hasan son of Ali (May Allah be pleased with them):- Also, by cursing Mu'awiyah (May Allah be pleased with him), these Rafidiya (Shia) are actually cursing Hasan (May Allah be pleased with him). Because Hasan withdrew from, and gave up the Khilaafah to Mu'awiyah purely for the pleasure of Allaah. The Messenger foretold of this in the hadith. So can the grandson of The Messenger actually have withdrawn from and left the Khilaafah in the hands of a Kafir for him to rule over the people? Subhân Allah! This indeed is a great accusation and insult! If the Rafidiya say that Ali and Hasan were forced into doing this, then this is proof enough that these Rafidiya have no sense whatsoever. The accusations leveled against these two honored companions of the Prophet are the worst insults ever imaginable and are beyond belief. They should remember that Ali faced the unbelievers in Mecca face to face although Muslims were less than 40 man. So, why does he hide his Islaam when Muslims became the majority and why he does not face the hypocrites?

Mubarak:
Award is presented to those who fight heroically in the battlefield and not to those who run away in cowardice. Mola Ali (a.s.) was presented by sword Zulfiquar from Almighty Allah and rest trio caliphs were not so you can infer who was hero and who were cowardice. In earlier days the enemy of Islam with whom Mola Ali (a.s.) fought were openly anti-Allah / anti-Islam and now the people who are fighting Mola Ali (a.s.) were in Islam though only for name sake and not in sprit.

In earlier days Mola Ali (a.s.) and his progeny protected Islam by cutting head of enemies of Islam. Now the enemies of Islam attacked Islam by wearing mask of Muslims so, Mola Ali (a.s.) and his progeny too changed their way, earlier they beheaded enemies and protected Islam and now they themselves got beheaded by enemies and protected Islam.

As per Mola Ali (a.s.) ‘nuss’ will, after Ali (a.s.) martyrdom, Molana Imam Hasan (a.s.) became the state head and remain caliph for five months before Maviya snatched that seat from him. Maviya who inspired by trio caliphs idea on snatching state headship rolled his dice and won. Because no body supported Imam Hasan (a.s.) thus he has to unwillingly do ‘jung bandhi’ / ‘yudh viram’ with Maviya on certain signed terms and conditions by Maviya, and one condition was that once Maviya died he will appoint Imam Hussain (a.s.) as the state head. But Maviya appointed his own son Yazeed dishonored his signed agreement/words.

As a precautionary to safeguard his Monarchy, Maviya murdered Imam Hasan (a.s.) by poison.

Hussain_KSA
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#110

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:46 am

Respected Janab Mubarak bhai saheb,

Since when Dr. Abbas Alvi became scholar? The other shia scholars are also not well known. You are refuting the authentics books just because some so called and self aapointed shcolars told you that "it is not true". Your circle is very limited. either you qoute from Janab Ahmed Ali Raj sahib or Janab Abbas Alvi. You often qoute with Imams of some mosques. Some times a tea boy in my office lead the prayers and we pray after him. Does it make him scholar. One taxi driver "Amjad shah Hussain Malik" is very popular shia waiz here who narrates the masaeb of Imam Hussain and Karbala during Muharram waiz (Jeddah shias community knows him very well and he narretes much better than Dr. Abbas Alvi) but when some one ask him about the jurisprudence he is dumb. You might have studied something about Dawoodi Bohra litrature, I would like to advise you to go though comparative studies of other faith too as sometime your argument is pointless. I don't want to indulge in discussion but their are baseless point you are qouting without any proper or authentic reference.

Mubarak
Posts: 471
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#111

Unread post by Mubarak » Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:40 am

Dear Hussain bhai,

If you have proof that Mola Ali (a.s.) married his kid with Usman then provide? Quote only authentic history reference.

Sincerely,

Mubarak

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#112

Unread post by Mubarak » Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:45 am

Hussain bhai,

Whatever fazilat of Mola Ali (a.s.) and rizalat of his enemies I have presented counter it with your wisdom and without that do not jump to conclusion that my presentation is "pointless".

Regards,

Brotherly and sincerely,

Mubarak

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#113

Unread post by Mubarak » Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:22 am

Dear Hussain bhai,

I have posted hundreds of posts and may be two or three times have referred to Bhai Sajjad KG who is Pesh Imam in Udaipur mosque, and you are saying me I have quoted “Imams” i.e. you are using plural, where I have quoted more than one Imam of Udaipur mosque?

Second, you are saying that I have quoted Udaipur Imam “OFTEN”, whereas I have quoted him twice or thrice in my all hundreds of post on this forum!!! For exaggerating and putting weight in your allegation, you the man who did couples of hundreds of Umra and near tens of Hajs – Jhooth bolte ho!!! Mera circle nahi aapka nazariya ‘small hai’. As a forum member co-member I have respect for you but it is very sad to learn that u speak lie for exaggerating your point!!!

Gumzada,

Mubarak

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#114

Unread post by Mubarak » Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:43 am

Ghulam Muhammed:
Shia curses Aa'ishah, the mother of the Believers (May Allah be pleased with her):- Furthermore, how do these Rafidiya curse and insult Umm ul Mu'mineen (mother of the Believers) Aaishah when Allaah Himself has mentioned her in the Qur'ân as the mother of the believers?
"The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves, and his wives are their (believers) mothers (as regards respect and marriage)." (Al-Ahzaab, verse 6)
There is no doubt whatsoever that only that person will curse and insult Umm al-Mu'mineen who does not consider her to be a mother. Because for one who does have a mother, does not curse and insult her, but loves her. Allah promised to give a great punishment to those who slander her:
"When you were propagating it (the slander) with your tongues, and uttering with your mouths that whereof you had no knowledge, you counted it a little thing, while with Allaah it was very great." (An-Nur 24:15)

Imam Malik stated that anyone who slanders her should be killed right away because Allaah forbids us (in the Qur'ân) from it forever and because anyone who curses the Prophet Muhammad or any member of this family should be killed too. This fatwa was also issued by his teacher Imam Ja'far al-Saadiq. Allaah says:
"Allah forbids you from it (slandering 'Aaishah) and warns you not to repeat the like of it forever, if you are believers." (An-Nur 24:17)

Mubarak:
Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) was the most prestigious man of his time and his prominence needs to protected even after his martyrdom, by not allowing anyone to marry Prophet (s.a.) widows thus not allowing anyone to do inter-course with Prophet (s.a.) widow because Prophet (s.a.) has used them in his life.

Almighty, Allah has categorically made all the wives of Prophet (s.a.) as the mother of all Muslims so no Muslims can invite to Prophet widows for marriage as no one is allowed to marry their mother.

Aaish was grandmother of Imam Hasan (a.s.) and instead of agonizing (sitting in ‘shok’) she fired arrows on dead body of Imam Hasan (a.s.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shi'a_view ... _by_arrows:
Hassan ibn Ali’s dead body gets shot by arrows
As the funeral proceeded towards the grave of Muhammad, some Umayyads mounted on horses obstructed and Ayesha binte Abu Bakr appeared, mounting a mule, shouting that the grave of Muhammad was in her house and she would not allow the grandson of Khadijah binte Khuwaylid to be buried beside Muhammad. With the shouts from Ayesha a shower of arrows fell on the coffin. Hussain ibn Ali in the fulfillment of the last wish of his departed brother, turned the procession of the funeral towards Jannat al-Baqi and when the body was taken out of the coffin to be laid to rest in the grave, Hussain ibn Ali finding some of the arrows which were showered at the coffin, had struck body of his dead brother.

Now, see the ‘amal’ character of Aaisha, she came on the battle field in the war of Jamal to attack Mola Ali (a.s.). Sunni’s too consider Mola Ali (a.s.) as caliph of the time and under his caliphate this battle was fought. You as a Muslim whom will you support and whom will you curse? Will you not support your caliph of time who is Mola Ali (a.s.) and fight/curse with his enemy who in the present context is Aaisha?

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#115

Unread post by Mubarak » Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:07 am

Hussain bhai,

If Dr. Abbas Ali Alvi is not a scholar then why Dawoodi Bohra Youth Jamat has appointed him master for giving 'Friday' weekly sabak including jurisprudence in Youth Jamat premises?

Sincerely,

Mubarak

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#116

Unread post by Mubarak » Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:29 am

Hussain bhai,

Ustad Ahmed Ali Raj has ‘kamil’ ilm. He wrote 103 books. And when you will read his life you will learn leaders (even to the rank of Mazoon example Aliya Bohras, Baroda) of scores and scores of different sects of Islam including Sunni and Isnashari have wrote or consulted Ustad Ahmed Ali Raj on complexes of religion and cases. Ustad never ever comments from his own pocket he only said what was said by noble scholars/True Dai/Imams/Prophets.

Is there any one in his time (in zahir) more authentic then him? There are two teams in Dawoodi Bohras: Shabab leaders you know better how they are. And Youth leader – Engineer Asgher Ali is a Daroo (alcohol) Drinker (proof in book ‘Nikab Kushai’ and 'Daroo' is the mother of all evils). If I am quoting Ustad Ahmed Ali Raj then it means I am quoting all the noble scholars / true Dai / Imams / Prophets.

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#117

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:49 am

Every one knows that there was rift between Janab Ahmed Ali Raj & Asghar Ali Engineer. Nakhab Kushai was written in that contex only. I never found Asghar Ali Engineer has written anything against Ahmed Ali Raj. I don't want to compare as the readers knows about both of them.

You wrote that Asghar Ali enginee drink Daroo! how about Dr. Abbas Alvi? Did he give up the habit?

As I wrote in my earlier post that just reading 103 book of single author from arthodox jamia safia of Surat you can't argue with others. You have to read the their perception too. Every now and than you will just qoute Books and references by your revered teacher. Did you ever read any other schoold of thought (maslak) or books from shia theology? If yes, than please qoute them as well.

Which religion teaches you to hurt the sentiments of the followers of different school of thought?

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#118

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:03 am

Mola Ali (a.s.) was presented by sword Zulfiquar from Almighty Allah
Totally rubbish. Zulphikar might be a sword of Prophet SAW nd he might have given it to Ali RA but from Allah SWT? That is rubbish. Only ignorant sheeps would believe in it.
by not allowing anyone to marry Prophet (s.a.) widows thus not allowing anyone to do inter-course with Prophet (s.a.) widow because Prophet (s.a.) has used them in his life.


Can this gentleman use better language?

S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#119

Unread post by S. Insaf » Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:31 pm

Let me recall the story of a Jewish woman who always threw rubbish on Prophet Mohammed whenever he passed by her house.
When she didn't one day, Prophet Mohammed inquired why she didn't. He learnt that she was not well.
Prophet went to inquire about her health and wish her well. She was so impressed that she accepted Islam.

The same was with Hazrat Ali as he grew in the care and company of Prophet Mohammed. He never had any enmity with any one for worldly matters.
Talha-inbe-Talha was a bitter enemy of Islam. His exertions to harm Hazrat Ali are legion. He came face to face with Hazrat Ali in the battle of Ohad. Hazrat Ali dealt him such a severe blow that he fell down. Hazrat Ali left him and walked away. The Muslim warriors advised him to finish Talha. Hazrat Ali “enemy or no enemy he is defenceless. I cannot strike a man who cannot defend himself. If he survives he is welcome to live as long as his life lasts.”

Firstly the Islamic history that I have gone through tells me that Hazrat Ali personally never considered the fist three caliphates his enemy. In fact he all along supported them. So much so that Hazrat Umar Farooq had to publicly admit that he had been saved on many occasions by non other than Ali. Hazrat Ali also tried his best to save Hazrat Usmaan Gali’s life when he was attacked.

Secondly as I have said earlier the Qur’an was finalised during Hazrat Usmaan’s time and Hazrat Ali was not included in the Qur’an committee though he had given the reason for his delay in giving Oath to Hazrat Abu Bakar that he was busy in collecting Qur’an soon after the death of the Prophet. Hazrat Ali became caliphate soon after Hazrat Usmaan but he never raised any question regarding to authenticity of Qur’an as well his right to be caliphate after the Prophet.

Again according to the history Hazrat Mawiyah was the one who coined the word ‘Shia’ and formed a body known as ‘Shia-ne-Usmaan which raised the voice to revenge of the murderers of Hazrat Usmaan and there after the supporters of Hazrat Ali came to be known as ‘Shia-ne-Ali.

It is for any one to decide whether he wants to be a fanatic Shia and take pride in it or he wants to be a true supporter of Hazrat Ali and have some wisdom from his actions and follow on his footsteps and take pride in saying “Live like Ali”.

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#120

Unread post by Mubarak » Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:55 pm

Dear Respected Brother Mr. Insaf sahib/ Bhai Ghulam Mohammed / Bhai Muslim First / Bhai Hussain KSA,

I sincerely and whole heartedly present my humble thanks for participating on my thread and contributing your esteemed thoughts. There is no personal animosity; we are all brothers, sisters and friends though we may have differences in outlook.

Bhai Ghulam Muhammed sahib, I have almost replied your first copy/paste article only last paragraph is left, along with your subsequent new copy/paste article. However, I am still waiting for my reply that how by citing Kothars/Janab Burhannuddin guilt makes trio caliphs guilt free?

Bhai Muslim First sahib, if we assume your contention that Zulfiquar was given by Prophet to Ali then again the same point come: Award is given to hero and not to those who run away, and Prophet gave Zulfiquar not to trio but to Ali (a.s.).

Bhai Hussain KSA sahib, waiting for your replies and your balance one post reply on next Sat/Sun Inshallah.

Bhai S. Insaf sahib, whenever you are technically proven wrong or when argument goes against you in debate with me on this or other threads you never have courage to face or acknowledge! Whatever fazilat you presented of Mola Ali (a.s.) is in line of Dawoodi Bohras and wherever you have deviated as per Dawoodi Bohras faith I will point you out.

Insaf sahib, I suppose you are zonal secretary of Bohra Youth, if not then please ignore the following lines. As per rules, only a Bohra can hold any post. So you officially have to have faith only what Dawoodi Bohras will dictate or otherwise you are not qualified to your Zonal secretary post. I am a staunch Dawoodi Bohra so officially you cannot by default win by going against Dawoodi Bohras faith. My humble and polite comment/reply to Ghulam Mohammed / Bhai Insaf sahib Bhai Hussain sahib on next Saturday/Sunday Inshallah.

Yours sincerely,

Mubarak